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Microsoft Fined $613 Million By Eu


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I reckon too many people beat up on ol' Bill. No one ever mentions the millions of dollars he gives to charities and other non-profit organisations.

money he made through illegal monopolistic business practises?

if a mafia drug lord gave large amounts of money to charity - that would make his illegal activities OK then?

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Fine doesn't mean that much. Doesn't MS have something like $50 billion in the bank!

not that they can't afford it Col - but it is still the record EU fine.

Don't see why they have to release their code anyway.

basically to level the playing field for their competitors

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You can get dev toolkits for Windows no problem there.

The bit about media player must be removed - why? It's a big part of an OS these days. You don't have to use it, just install something else. It's a bit like saying a car manufacturer cannot fit a standard stereo in their car.

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The bit about media player must be removed - why? It's a big part of an OS these days. You don't have to use it, just install something else. It's a bit like saying a car manufacturer cannot fit a standard stereo in their car.

but the issue is the used their monopoly in the desktop market to prevent hardware manufacturers from installing any other media player.

offering their media player for free is not an issue.

using their monopoly to hinder the business of their competitors is - and that is why they have been fined by the EU.

your comparison with a cat stereo is not really valid Col ( :blush: ) - as no car company or stereo manufacturer have a monopoly of the market

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I know that WINDOWS IS CRAP and there are other problems with MS stuff but at the end of the day they did invent it and they did invest in it.. AND WHATS More is we choose to use it.. I know that if i had a one off invention that sold billions and only i knew the secrets i would not want to share with others (except if it was a cure for such things a cancer) we are talking entertainment here.. does that mean that ferrari f1 have to share all there knowlage with the like of jordan.. I dont think so.. and does it mean that people with advanced military weapons technical infomation have to share with all countrys that want to know how it works and how to make it??

craig

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Your missing the point Craig, way back, Windows did not ship with IE, if you wanted to browse the web you used Netscape. Netscape carved out a very successful niche, and would still be top dog, but MS spotted this, and said right we can do this and then included IE in all Windows products, now the consumer has a choice, a choice to go out and source an alternative product or just click on the IE on the desktop, Netscape lost out.

Same story this time streaming media Real had the market share, MS spot this and then include MS Media player in Windows.

What it boils down to is that MS will wait for a company to show it the way, wait until it has a developed product, then release the same product under a MS banner and ship it with every single vanilla box in the world.

I like to have a choice, I will not have any choices if this continues.

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You still have a choice, you can install Netscrape if you want a rubbish product.

Browsers and media players are now a major part of a computer and should be included. Why should I have to install loads of different apps to get a usable system, at the moment I install Windows and its all there.

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but still have a choice.. i do not use I.E I use mozzila firebird.. you dont have to have windows.. you can always get a mac.. there are other choices out there.. yes i know the are limited programs for other systems.. but thats the choice and yes maybe MS do wait to see what is working then incororate this in theres but you could say the same with car bits.. look at lexus style lights..you can get them for most cars now.. its the same in all business.. just that MS do very well at it...

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I reckon MS should put an embargo on suplying windows to the world for say, a year.

Aside from the money it'd cost, all these litigation-happy eejits and people who say that windows is crap would soon realise just how buggrid they'd be without it.

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Browsers and media players are now a major part of a computer and should be included.

exactly Col.

and what is illegal is that microsoft have used their monopoly on the desktop to ensure that it is their browser and media player you get.

PC manufacturers could supply PC's with Mozilla, Quicktime and Open Office - but microsoft do not allow this.

so you get IE, MS Works and WMP.

You still have a choice, you can install Netscrape if you want a rubbish product.

but you cannot remove IE from your own machine

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so will apple be fined next for supplying itunes, iphoto and imove with all their operating systems? whether im on my mac or my pc i always just install what i want and get rid of what i dont want. Mac OS's do come with explorer and netscape, so there is a bit of variety there but i still have to download mozilla.

i removed explorer from win xp pro no prblem the other day but then had to reinstall it to use my business internet banking, bugger!

as for the fine it should have been for supplying poop software that needs 15 updates every day just to function!

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so will apple be fined next for supplying itunes, iphoto and imove with all their operating systems? whether im on my mac or my pc i always just install what i want and get rid of what i dont want. Mac OS's do come with explorer and netscape, so there is a bit of variety there but i still have to download mozilla.

errrm - apple are a long way from being a monopoly mate- less than 5% market share isn't it?

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so will apple be fined next for supplying itunes, iphoto and imove with all their operating systems? whether im on my mac or my pc i always just install what i want and get rid of what i dont want. Mac OS's do come with explorer and netscape, so there is a bit of variety there but i still have to download mozilla.

errrm - apple are a long way from being a monopoly mate- less than 5% market share isn't it?

the education sector are turning to macs for the ease and simplicity. so i reckon if the youngsters are learning on a mac they will be more likely to buy one. give it a few years...

found this:

apple exceeded average market growth in Europe last quarter with an overall growth rate of 25 percent in the UK (10 per cent growth in its desktop sales and a 50 per cent growth in notebook sales), according Macworld UK: "Europe's PC market grew 19.7 per cent year-on-year during 2003's final quarter with business driven by ever-increasing notebook demand and the emergence of the long-awaited corporate refresh cycle that has been absent for four years, analysts firm IDC revealed. apple exceeded the curve, shipping over 51,000 Macs in the last three months of 2003 in the UK; a 25 per cent growth in sales year-on-year, IDC told Macworld."

although quite right matt, not exactly a monopoly just yet!

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Got to agree with Colin on this one. Yes microsoft have copied some ideas but so has every one... Going back to cars, if they weren't all copies we'd all be driving Fords..

And besides if Microsoft finds a decent product they will buy licenses from the manufacturer.. If your Running windows 2000 or above go to Disk Defrag and then to help and tell me where it takes you (MS bought a cut down version and still gives all the rights to Disk keeper)

Besides if you had a product wouldn't you want to make it the best for your customers?

MS isn't just one big company, they use a lot of smaller "suppliers" to come up with ideas. Just like car manufacturers don't make every single part, but the car is still sold under their name

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And besides if Microsoft finds a decent product they will buy licenses from the manufacturer.

New York Times Article which sorta suggests that this isn't always the case.

some relevant quotes

Among the documents introduced in court this week was a letter from June 1990 in which Bill Gates, Microsoft's chairman, told Andrew S. Grove, the chief executive of Intel at the time, that any support given to the Go Corporation, a Silicon Valley software company, would be considered an aggressive move against Microsoft.
This week, the lawyers representing the Minnesota consumers are focusing on Microsoft's efforts to undercut Go, a start-up company that was developing an operating system for hand-held computers.

The first witness appearing at the trial yesterday was Jerry Kaplan, the co-founder of Go. Mr. Kaplan, who was a software developer at the Lotus Development Corporation before he started Go, has been a longtime opponent of Microsoft.

Yet he said he was surprised by what was revealed about Microsoft's activities in the documents. "I was shocked," Mr. Kaplan said in a telephone interview. "This was a corporate mugging that went uncorrected and unknown."

The events surrounding the failure of Go have often been cited as a reason for the animosity between Silicon Valley executives and Microsoft. Go was one of the most prominent efforts by Silicon Valley entrepreneurs and venture capitalists to create software for tablet-sized devices. In addition to an all-star cast of technologists, the start-up had backing from major industry players like I.B.M., Intel and AT&T.

The plaintiffs contend the new documents show that Microsoft violated nondisclosure agreements with Go, and then used that information to build PenWindows, a competitor to Go's PenPoint operating system. The documents included Microsoft's internal e-mail messages showing that it had detailed knowledge of Go's product plans.

The documents also suggest that Microsoft sought to pressure Intel to cancel its plans to invest in Go. On June 28, 1990, Mr. Gates wrote a letter to Mr. Grove trying to convince the Intel executive that he should back a version of Windows for portable computers, then code-named Windows-H, rather than Go's PenPoint software.

"I guess I've made it very clear that we view an Intel investment in Go as an anti-Microsoft move, both because Go competes with our systems software and because we think it will weaken the 386 PC standard," Mr. Gates wrote.

Shortly after the letter was written, according to Mr. Kaplan, Intel reduced its planned investment in Go from $10 million to $2 million, and stipulated the investment be kept a secret.

An Intel spokesman declined to comment on the events.

In late 1993, Go was sold to AT&T where it was ultimately merged into the company's portable computer subsidiary. In 1994 the phone company shut down the effort in portable computing. Three months later Microsoft canceled its PenWindows project.
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Theres a lot of applications that are similar to others, MS have just got so big that they're the most obvious...

To me its a way to get some money out of them.. Good on MS I say. If people don't like their software, don't use it. My personal view is software for the past few years has been spot on.

Why do they bring out all these patches if their software is so good?

Hackers!

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