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On sale soon in UK & Europe, what are your views on them ? And you think they'll do well or go same way as Infiniti? I think the Genesis especially the G80 looks nice and there be a G70 (3 series / Lexus IS size) bit later I think and should Lexus worry ?

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/hyundais-premium-brand-genesis-confirms-2021-uk-launch

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48 minutes ago, ghost_killer said:

On sale soon in UK & Europe, what are your views on them ? And you think they'll do well or go same way as Infiniti? I think the Genesis especially the G80 looks nice and there be a G70 (3 series / Lexus IS size) bit later I think and should Lexus worry ?

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/hyundais-premium-brand-genesis-confirms-2021-uk-launch

Interesting, key question is will Tiger Woods buy/drive  another? 🤔 Actually , looking at the SUV, very Lexus front end and Porsche styling cues for the back. Reminds me of the two headed llama in the Dr Doolittle film😂

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It may well turnout to be interesting car brand, especially the part that they make RWD cars by default, so no FWD luxury wanabe trash.

When they finally release coupe it may be something I will consider, especially considering Hyundai has build a reputation by now and at very least ar not worse than german cars in terms of reliability. Sure they are nowhere near Lexus, but they at least don't fudge their car with sluggish hybrids drives of FWD.

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3 hours ago, Phil xxkr said:

Interesting, key question is will Tiger Woods buy/drive  another? 🤔 Actually , looking at the SUV, very Lexus front end and Porsche styling cues for the back. Reminds me of the two headed llama in the Dr Doolittle film😂

Lol, the GV80 doesn't look bad even though to me is another suv with styling cues taken from other cars and of course the badge seems to be inspired from I'm not going to state the obvious pmsl

 

3 hours ago, Linas.P said:

It may well turnout to be interesting car brand, especially the part that they make RWD cars by default, so no FWD luxury wanabe trash.

When they finally release coupe it may be something I will consider, especially considering Hyundai has build a reputation by now and at very least ar not worse than german cars in terms of reliability. Sure they are nowhere near Lexus, but they at least don't fudge their car with sluggish hybrids drives of FWD.

The previous Hyundai genesis sold in UK was really nice motor and looked well built I've seen about 2/3 in UK and 2 elsewhere in Europe close up but sadly in Europe, the use of non luxury branding and a price tag of about 50k GBP makes it very rare, I would like to see a coupe - which we didn't get previously but appeared to be sold in Europe originally. Be interesting to see a coupe and even seeing the G70 in person - Lexus don't make me jump ships !!!!

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It is hard to believe that not so long-ago Hyundai was not a brand of value and now is being among the top brands. I have been happy renting the little i10 when needing to come from one place to another (airport - family - return etc.) and now their Ioniq is giving Prius a battle that it seems Prius is losing among taxi's here.

If Genesis is a coming top like Infinity from Nissan was supposed to, or if it really is a top car like Lexus, is not to know now, but for Infinity it that has not happened so far though some of their cars are stunning to look at. Honda has also a new and nice Accord hybrid and Honda is known as a reliable brand. The new Insight is good looking too.

If fuel cells are the future (as I believe it is) then Toyota has a smooth working gear system which is far better than competing gear systems.

Hyundai is a company with a future, but they are entering a part of the market with few buyers and many sellers with the Genesis. Good luck. Competition is what makes products better. The design is not worse than Lexus and if Lexus wants to stay on top Lexus needs better service. In the service-part of catching customers Hyundai is far ahead.

Sure, I should not write things like this in a Lexus forum, but I believe the older Lexus cars were better built than the new are.

When we need a new car, I hope the fuel cell cars are available and the needed refuelling network is OK. So far, we are happy, no VERY happy with the little CT.

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6 hours ago, Linas.P said:

It may well turnout to be interesting car brand, especially the part that they make RWD cars by default, so no FWD luxury wanabe trash.

When they finally release coupe it may be something I will consider, especially considering Hyundai has build a reputation by now and at very least ar not worse than german cars in terms of reliability. Sure they are nowhere near Lexus, but they at least don't fudge their car with sluggish hybrids drives of FWD.

Do not be so hard Linus,

Front wheel drive (luxury or not luxury) cars with normal power/weight rate is the best for most people.

Front wheel drive is not bad. Rear wheel drive is far better if: Car has a power/weight + weight balance front/rear rate that makes it possible to control the car with the speeder pedal and (very much of importance) has a driver that can handle rear wheel drive.

Rear wheel drive is wasted on most of the cars that have it. For these 4-wheel drive would be better.

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I did read an opinion that Genesis were going to make a big push in the UK using a few and select Genesis only specific dealers.  However, to the best of my recollection, the motoring article questioned the wisdom of entering the market without an all electric or even hybrid range.  Certainly like Hyundai, a serious competitor, so one to watch.  

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Their biggest challenge will be whether the badge snobs can be persuaded out of their German cars. Do you remember they days when the average person was happy in an Escort or Mondeo? Why are people so obsessed with an A-class or 1-series? I can only imagine it’s to do with vanity, the rise of narcissism and the impact that social media has on a lot of people. 

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17 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

Do not be so hard Linus,

Front wheel drive (luxury or not luxury) cars with normal power/weight rate is the best for most people.

Front wheel drive is not bad. Rear wheel drive is far better if: Car has a power/weight + weight balance front/rear rate that makes it possible to control the car with the speeder pedal and (very much of importance) has a driver that can handle rear wheel drive.

Rear wheel drive is wasted on most of the cars that have it. For these 4-wheel drive would be better.

Shhh, he might hear you!

Don't prod the sleeping giant otherwise he might wake up and drown you in a tidal wave of words!

🙂

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2 minutes ago, Shahpor said:

Shhh, he might hear you!

Don't prod the sleeping giant otherwise he might wake up and drown you in a tidal wave of words!

🙂

Now you are hard.

I find most of what Linus is saying to be words of one who knows cars and has a preferred kind of cars. Reason for me to defend front wheel drive is that most drive does not know how to handle rear wheel drive as front wheel drive is far more forgiving and that is what most are used to now.

 

😇

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On 5/8/2021 at 11:41 PM, Las Palmas said:

Do not be so hard Linus,

Front wheel drive (luxury or not luxury) cars with normal power/weight rate is the best for most people.

Front wheel drive is not bad. Rear wheel drive is far better if: Car has a power/weight + weight balance front/rear rate that makes it possible to control the car with the speeder pedal and (very much of importance) has a driver that can handle rear wheel drive.

Rear wheel drive is wasted on most of the cars that have it. For these 4-wheel drive would be better.

You are right - for strictly "luxury" car it probably does not matter which wheels are driving. However, nowadays there are no "strictly luxury" cars, they are all "sports/performance/luxury" cars, we even have "sports utility vehicles", so manufacturers always tries their hardest to as well claim how "sporty" their cars are, even if they are not sporty at all. Like Lexus ES F-Sport or indeed CT F-Sport... 

So if there would be manufacturer which would be honest and say - here you have FWD car which comfortable, but it certainly it is not-sporty and it frankly sucks when it comes to performance... I would say "fair enough". But as you know this will never happen... so I went quite harsh with assumption that FWD car from premium brand will always be marketed as sporty.

Now obviously, I have another "belief of mine" (or 2)... First is that "luxury" should mean "effortless acceleration", not necessary absolutely best handling, because you don't want to feel "too much" feedback from the road, but it has to be relatively fast. Secondly, that FWD cannot have more than 200hp... anything more than that and wheels fails to do both handling and acceleration and then we have all to familiar squealing under acceleration/cornering and that would destroy any luxury or comfort.

To achieve the first part (effortless acceleration) in modern large and heavy car I would say "true luxury car" must have ~300-400hp at very least and I would say should be capable of under 6s to 60MPH. So this means Luxury car cannot as well be FWD. AWD is not great on sports car, but it could be in luxury car, as long as it is not like Volvo S90 (which is terrible). 

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2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

You are right - for strictly "luxury" car it probably does not matter which wheels are driving. However, nowadays there are no "strictly luxury" cars, they are all "sports/performance/luxury" cars, we even have "sports utility vehicles", so manufacturers always tries their hardest to as well claim how "sporty" their cars are, even if they are not sporty at all. Like Lexus ES F-Sport or indeed CT F-Sport... 

So if there would be manufacturer which would be honest and say - here you have FWD car which comfortable, but it certainly it is not-sporty and it frankly sucks when it comes to performance... I would say "fair enough". But as you know this will never happen... so I went quite harsh with assumption that FWD car from premium brand will always be marketed as sporty.

Now obviously, I have another "belief of mine" (or 2)... First is that "luxury" should mean "effortless acceleration", not necessary absolutely best handling, because you don't want to feel "too much" feedback from the road, but it has to be relatively fast. Secondly, that FWD cannot have more than 200hp... anything more than that and wheels fails to do both handling and acceleration and then we have all to familiar squealing under acceleration/cornering and that would destroy any luxury or comfort.

To achieve the first part (effortless acceleration) in modern large and heavy car I would say "true luxury car" must have ~300-400hp at very least and I would say should be capable of under 6s to 60MPH. So this means Luxury car cannot as well be FWD. AWD is not great on sports car, but it could be in luxury car, as long as it is not like Volvo S90 (which is terrible). 

You know that most people like their cars to be sporty, so no matter if they are, they will all be labelled so. All car companies do that.

Rear wheel drive does not make a car sporty without the power, but most of these are also labelled sporty.

Marketing people know nothing about cars. They just write what they think can sell.

Besides: who needs go from one red light to another in 3 seconds?

Luxury means for the people I know: Comfort, comfort, comfort. Nice design. Easy to drive from A to B. Not much about power.

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As I, that is more of my personal preference but luxury car should be "fast enough", I quite like how RR marketed their cars in 60 and 70... never mentioned the engine power, but simply said that "power will be enough". So that some shopping trolley could not overtake you from traffic lights.

And it is not the matter of always using the power, it is a matter of presence, I am not saying you have to win traffic light GP, what I am saying that simply knowing you could if you wanted to is comforting. More comfort, means more better, especially when it comes to luxury cars. 

Obviously, one could put it down to my "complexes", but if we look at it realistically... nowadays any mid-range, used car is plenty comfortable enough from most of traveling needs. Most of current luxury cars have so much stuff in them that it already became just a numbers game and completely irrelevant. However, people still buy them, because it is a status symbol and that is pretty much the only reason why brand like Lexus exist in the fist place.

For example model like ES in theory should not exist, because part of badge it does not offer anything better than Toyota Avalon it is based on... ES actually feels distinctively Toyota inside. So the only reason why anyone would buy it is purely status symbol. What that status means differs from person to person obviously, but being fast car is one of the aspects.

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I think success for the Genesis brand depends on the time the parent company gives it to establish solid growth. It took Lexus many years from the launch of the LS400 and they made a few errors which were quickly corrected. I remember taking my LS400 for service in the early 90’s to a joint Lexus/Toyota dealer and getting a Corolla for the day. Moving to dedicated Lexus sites was a good move.
 

Some brands like Infinity have bombed in the UK and then pulled from the market.

Look at Chevy, introduced Camaro and Corvette in the late 1990’s. Let a few Vauxhall dealers sell them who didn’t have a clue how to service them. My new Camaro Z28 had a first service in Leeds and they left a dirty oil can on the passenger seat for me. Then they pulled out of the UK. Then they came back with a bigger range, spent $559 to sponsor Manchester United, and immediately pulled out Europe. For warranty on my Corvette there was just one UK dealer.

If Hyundai gives Genesis time I think it will work, just look how far they have come already. I would expect Lexus see them as a significant competitor.

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Also not sure the FWD/RWD/AWD issue is of interest to the majority of drivers. A few, who have snow need AWD and proper tyres but most only think they do. I would guess a large number of drivers don’t know, or care, if their car is FWD or RWD, but I do remember how hard it was for Saab to keep the FWD Turbo on the road.

AWD worked well for the Quattro, I remember watching them in the RAC a long time ago.

 

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i had one of those Saabs, one of the worst cars i ever owned judged by chassis dynamics. Driving in the rain was like on ice and on a bad road it was outright dangerous. Just a dangerous as my Ford Mondeo Diesel that was so unbalanced it had sudden death understeer mid corner and hen just went straight on. BMW did investigate if their customers did know which wheels were driven and the vast majority had no clue.. My wife drives a BMW RWD 1 series but she has no idea nor do my neighbors or sister or .... I personally prefer RWD and if possible will base my decision to buy a car on it but i don't think there are many out there anymore. Most FWD cars now are above acceptable to drive just look at the Audi's Volvo's etc.

I do think Genesis will be a big success in the states and Asia. Overhere they have to start from scratch and that as we all know is incredibly difficult not even Lexus is succeeding. Genesis is rapidly electrifying its range as well but as nobody knows them they could be seen as one of the Chinese companies currently entering the EU market. That will take a long time i hear you say? Well.. one of the biggest just started in Norway and have an engineering center in Oxford!

www.nio.com  

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Here are the targets for Genesis in the Luxury USA market. Just shows how many traditional Ford fans still like to old Lincoln Town Car

image.thumb.png.0287bb6b34790af818043d4c9f79cc7a.png

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Sorry, should have noted that Tesla refuse to report numbers, so not included.

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57 minutes ago, Alan305 said:

Here are the targets for Genesis in the Luxury USA market. Just shows how many traditional Ford fans still like to old Lincoln Town Car

image.thumb.png.0287bb6b34790af818043d4c9f79cc7a.png

And Volvo is not even Swedish anymore. Only to get positive is a Chinese car.

With all these established losing. Which are the new winners? Hyundai? or other Chinese cars. A friend of mine just bought a MG EHS plug in hybrid made in China. He has been in car business since forever (retired now) and he claim it is the best he has ever been driving.

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And if the Greens win in Germany things may get a lot worse for the "old school".

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I have ordered an Ionic 5 to go with my noisy V8 Convertible… I have had several electric cars… 

I had the Standard Tesla Model 3, and then bought the Long Range, not for the additional range, but for the AWD, for the winter months…

Living where I do, there are numerous roads, that don’t get gritted by the Council…

The very poor build quality is noticeable, and having an iPad, for various controls, was weird…!

Elon is trying to become the richest man in the world, not the 2nd, as he currently is…

His interest, is his own wealth, not the quality of the cars, that don’t have adequate quality control systems…

There are many that will disagree with me...

I have also had two I Pace’s, but I think the Ionic 5, will be better than the I Pace… And a lot less money, brand new, compared to a used I Pace First Edition…! 

I agree with many of Jonny Smith’s comments in this video…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6RsmzCYB3I

I was thinking of ordering a UX300e, but the Ionic 5 has changed my mind, even though, I don’t know when it will arrive…. 

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the ionic 5 seems something very special. i still cannot think of the actual size of the car it looks small on pictures really lancia delta size but i know it must be way bigger. love the styling and i am seriously thinking of getting one myself. First have to see it in the flesh though. Jonny nailed it in his vid.

This car is a fine example of development at kia/hyunday. Every new car they bring out is not a small step compared to the outgoing model but a real leap forward.  

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1 hour ago, dutchie01 said:

the ionic 5 seems something very special. i still cannot think of the actual size of the car it looks small on pictures really lancia delta size but i know it must be way bigger. love the styling and i am seriously thinking of getting one myself. First have to see it in the flesh though. Jonny nailed it in his vid.

This car is a fine example of development at kia/hyunday. Every new car they bring out is not a small step compared to the outgoing model but a real leap forward.  

Hello Bernard, I wonder if anybody, will see one in the flesh, at a Hyundai dealer... When I bought my Kona Electric. I never saw one in the flesh, just bought it online, and it arrived at my local dealer... Attached are some info I have received from my local dealer...

2021 05 07 IONIQ 5 Price List.pdf 2021 05 07 IONIQ 5 Technical Data.pdf 2021 05 07 IONIQ 5 Specification.pdf

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