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Would you consider changing a GS 450h to an ES 300h?


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What happens when you factor in the VED charge between the 250 and 300h? It's £340 pa for the 250 and either £10 or £20 pa for the 300h depending on trim level. This difference to most(?) buyers might be a big consideration?

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1 hour ago, Chris111 said:

What happens when you factor in the VED charge between the 250 and 300h? It's £340 pa for the 250 and either £10 or £20 pa for the 300h depending on trim level. This difference to most(?) buyers might be a big consideration?

Also....some residents parking zones will charge considerably less for a hybrid vehicle. 

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That's some damn fine detective work there Linas 👍

This is by no means definitive, but for the sake of comparison, my GS450h gets mid to late 30's mpg in town/carriageway driving and mid 40's on a motorway run.

I tend to drive with a heavy foot, so I consider these quite good considering the 3.5 V6 under the bonnet.

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Gen 4 has Atkinson-cycle engine, so in theory it should be more fuel efficient when cruising, I just don't know how much impact that makes.

I think generally all the cars get's better MPG on motorway than in town, except of very small hybrids (like Prius or CT I guess). Even smoothing like NX300h will get better MPG as long as you don't go past ~65-70MPH, but it simply not going to be as good as one would expect from non-hybrid car...  i.e. lets say normal petrol car will do 26 in town and 40 on motorway, where hybrid may do 35 in town and 40 on motorway. If one is expect same increase from hybrid, then hybrid probably should do 50, but they don't and that is why people say are no good for motorways. It doesn't means consumption is worse than in the city, just that it is not as high as one would expect. 

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32 minutes ago, serbarry said:

So I suppose it is very different from Gen 3.

I`ve never driven a Gen4, but it is generally recognised to be a more fuel efficient car.

Performance about the same and no major faults indentified so far, to my knowledge.

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2 hours ago, Linas.P said:

Gen 4 has Atkinson-cycle engine, so in theory it should be more fuel efficient when cruising, I just don't know how much impact that makes.

I think generally all the cars get's better MPG on motorway than in town, except of very small hybrids (like Prius or CT I guess). Even smoothing like NX300h will get better MPG as long as you don't go past ~65-70MPH, but it simply not going to be as good as one would expect from non-hybrid car...  i.e. lets say normal petrol car will do 26 in town and 40 on motorway, where hybrid may do 35 in town and 40 on motorway. If one is expect same increase from hybrid, then hybrid probably should do 50, but they don't and that is why people say are no good for motorways. It doesn't means consumption is worse than in the city, just that it is not as high as one would expect. 

I'd definitely say bigger petrol engines are pretty damn efficient at cruising speeds these days. Not uncommon for a modern NA 6 cylinder to touch 50mpg when on a run. The preserve of the Germans maybe who seem to update their engine designs more or less every few years.  I get around 42-43 mpg in my GS250 and that's effectively an engine that was first derived in about 2003 I believe? 

My previous E60 2.5 petrol got around 45mpg if cruising at 70. That engine was an 2007 updated version of the powerplant.

My previous to that 1999 Honda Accord V6 3.0 Coupe used to struggle to get anything more than 32mpg even when cruising at 60. It was known to be a bombproof, torquey but thirsty unit.  However....running at higher speeds didn't really seem to affect it that much. Strange considering it was a predominantly USA market SOHC lump where slightly lower speeds tend to be in force. I'd have estimated it would have been pretty efficient when running on the Autobahn at 100mph for hours and hours. 

 

 

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Yes.. the best I have seen in IS250 was ~44MPG, but somebody managed 48 or 49... maybe a run downhill. As much as I liked 4GR-FSE - happy engine, which liked to rev, was reliable, light, compact, sounded good and delivered decent power for it's size... by the time Lexus put it in GS mk4 and IS mk3 ins 2012/2013... it was effectively obsolete. 

Sadly, Lexus never updated 4GR-FSE which as you said was first introduced in 2003 Toyota Crown. I think it still had life in it if Lexus would have added Dual-injection (both port and direct) like 2GR-FSE and Atkinson-cycle, maybe paired it with new 8speed gearbox as they did for 350. This probably would have added 15-20hp and 5-10MPG making it a viable engine for few more years.

I think what actually killed 4GR-FSE were stupid emission regulations and fundamentally wrong testing methodology which is easy to abuse with Turbochargers. What is sad that they had all the tech already available, both Atkinson cycle and injectors were in other engines and development would be minimal. No... instead they spent 100s of millions developing new smaller turbocharged engine to abuse the testing methodology and make artificially low emissions test. The reality is that 8AR-FTS is terrible engine and in any practical conditions consumes much more fuel and likewise pollutes much more... but on paper it has lower CO2, hence lower tax and that is why car manufacturers all downsizing and turbocharging.

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On 5/18/2021 at 11:22 PM, Nico72 said:

Thanks. It is a lovely car, but I would prefer the sports trim.

https://usedcars.lexus.co.uk/en/used-lexus/Lexus/Gs-Saloon/450h-35-F-Sport-4dr-Auto-vdcedfl

Same one advertised on Lexus used car search. It is a nice car, shame that the leather is all black, which makes the interior look so bland...

I am thinking of getting a newer GS 450h at the moment but searching still... and they aren't that many left.

I wonder who is the lucky person purchasing the black F sport GS450h in Coventry Lexus dealership as I put an offer last week and was negotiating with the sales person but someone else purchased the same vehicle last Sunday with apparently another sales person, so it is now gone... 

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On 5/23/2021 at 1:31 AM, Linas.P said:

 

I think what actually killed 4GR-FSE were stupid emission regulations and fundamentally wrong testing methodology which is easy to abuse with Turbochargers. What is sad that they had all the tech already available, both Atkinson cycle and injectors were in other engines and development would be minimal. No... instead they spent 100s of millions developing new smaller turbocharged engine to abuse the testing methodology and make artificially low emissions test. The reality is that 8AR-FTS is terrible engine and in any practical conditions consumes much more fuel and likewise pollutes much more... but on paper it has lower CO2, hence lower tax and that is why car manufacturers all downsizing and turbocharging.

Yes it seems Lexus had a go at the '2 Litre Turbo 240bhp challenge' and sadly failed. The Germans seemed to get it right but I've no idea how reliable their units are when bought at 40-50k+ 

However, yes, Road Tax will be relatively cheap on a vehicle like this. You can get a 528i that gets to 60 in just over 6 seconds and pay just over £150 a year road duty. 

A shame Lexus doesn't have a turbocharged or supercharged version of the 2.5 litre 4 pot. Even possible with a hybrid system? Kind of defeats the objective I guess.....

 

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2 hours ago, superatticman said:

Yes it seems Lexus had a go at the '2 Litre Turbo 240bhp challenge' and sadly failed. The Germans seemed to get it right but I've no idea how reliable their units are when bought at 40-50k+ 

However, yes, Road Tax will be relatively cheap on a vehicle like this. You can get a 528i that gets to 60 in just over 6 seconds and pay just over £150 a year road duty. 

A shame Lexus doesn't have a turbocharged or supercharged version of the 2.5 litre 4 pot. Even possible with a hybrid system? Kind of defeats the objective I guess.....

 

BMW330e does exactly that it is Turbo 2L + hybrid, Volvo goes even further - SuperTurbo Charged 2L + hybrid.

I don't know how ze Germans are doing it... BWM 530 and MB 300E are both 2L turbo cars, but they are both much faster and somehow doesn't suck to drive. Even economy is not terrible.

Either way, V6 is just so much better in real driving conditions. Instead of turbocharging rather boring 2AR-FXE, they could have used 4GR-FSE as a basis for 300h... same like they used 2GR-FSE as a basis for 450h. Hybrid would complement V6 nicely with little bit of torque low down in the rev range where it is lacking.

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