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Newbie. Shift P to start


Nick0
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Hi all, new to Lexus, bought a low mileage CT from a Lexus dealer, where the battery had gone flat, apparently. Drove the 240 miles back from the dealer, left it 8 days, try to start it and get the "Shift P to Start" message. 

What does this mean? I trickle charged the 12v battery in the boot, it gave me the same message, then off and on, and it started. 

All help/experience/wisdom gratefully received! 

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1 hour ago, NemesisUK said:

Shift the gear selector into the Park position.

There isn't a Park position, there's a P button, which was pressed /illuminated throughout.

Has your CT got a Park position?

Have you had this issue? 

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1 minute ago, Las Palmas said:

Press brake and then start.

That is what we do to start the CT.

I know, the brake was pressed. Have you had this message before? 

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1 minute ago, diabolik said:

Keep brake pressed, press P and then switch to D.

Thanks, I did that too. When I googled the message there were suggestions that the 12v battery might need replacing. 

Have you ever had this issue in yours? 

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22 minutes ago, PCM said:

Maybe ask the dealer you bought it from for guidance? 

Yes, I will do, problem is they're in Teeside, I'm in South West London. Its got Lexus warranty, but was wanting to hear if other owners had had this message, forewarned is forearmed and all that. 

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thanks Peter, the dealer has agreed it's the battery, and that they'll replace it, which is what I'd hoped they'd say. Kudos to Lexus Teeside !

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12 hours ago, Nick0 said:

Hi all, new to Lexus, bought a low mileage CT from a Lexus dealer

Hi Nick, is it your first hybrid as well as your first Lexus? If so, you may find the following information to be some help. If not, I apologise if it appears that I'm trying to teach my granny to suck eggs.

First of all, hybrids don't have a traditional starter motor or alternator, or anything that would normally be driven by a belt from the engine because the engine doesn't run all the time - imagine being halfway through a turn and you lose power steering because the engine shuts down! Instead, it's all driven electrically.

 The 12V battery boots up the computers and gets the car into READY mode, equivalent to switching on the ignition and having the engine idling in a conventional car. At this point you can drive off on battery power alone if you so wish, but these aren't electric cars and you'd only get a couple of miles (if that) before the traction (hybrid) battery was effectively flat. When the hybrid system wants the petrol engine (ICE - Internal Combustion Engine) to run, it energises Motor/Generator 1 (MG1) and uses that to spin the ICE up to 1,000rpm before applying fuel and a spark to fire it.

 In a standard car the 12V battery is charged up by the alternator but we don't have one. Instead, a device called a DC/DC converter steps down the 288V from the traction battery to about 14.5V to charge it. The converter/inverter uses the same process for other systems like the power steering which, if I remember correctly, uses 48V.

 The aircon compressor is driven by a 500V 3-phase AC variable frequency motor and the two hybrid transaxle motors MG1 and MG2 are both 650V permanent magnet motors. Talking of the aircon compressor, if the system ever needs to be regassed, make sure that you take it to an aircon specialist (or, of course, a Lexus dealer) who knows about and can deal with hybrids.

The reason for this is that, although the refrigerant gas is the same as any other car, the lubricating oil isn't. As I said above, the aircon compressor is driven by an electric motor and the motor windings are immersed in the oil for cooling purposes. Standard compressor oil is called PAG oil but it's a low dielectric oil which means that it conducts electricity and it will damage the motor windings. We need to use ND11 oil which is a high dielectric and won't damage the windings. It's been shown that as little as 1% contamination by PAG oil can, and will, cause problems. Maybe not immediately but it will. Ideally, a specialist should have a dedicated ND11 machine so that cross-contamination with PAG can't happen.

 Although it's perfectly alright to jump start a hybrid with a standard car, NEVER, EVER, do it the other way round - you may get away with it but it's not worth the risk. The 12V battery in any car is only used for starting and then the alternator or equivalent takes over the running of the 12V systems such as lights, radio etc., etc. When jump starting the 'donor' car should have its engine running before the 'recipient' car attempts to start. This is so that the recipient will draw on the donor alternator, not its battery. This is all fine and dandy for a standard alternator because it can output anywhere upwards of 300A and a conventional starter motor will need every Amp of that, but our DC/DC converter can't supply anywhere near that amount and if it was asked to do so it may well expire with a very loud bang and lead to a very expensive repair.

 It's a very bad idea to run out of petrol in a hybrid but if you do, make sure to put in 10 litres before trying to start it and be aware that if you have more than three unsuccessful attempts at restarting, the hybrid system could lock out and need a dealer to reset it.

At traffic lights or other holdups, if you think you'll be moving in a minute or two, just leave the car in D with your foot on the brake. If you think it'll be a while before you move again, put the car in P and you can take your foot off the brake. However, don't put the car in N because the hybrid system doesn't charge the batteries in Neutral.

Sorry for boring you but now, above all else, enjoy the car.

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8 hours ago, Herbie said:

Hi Nick, is it your first hybrid as well as your first Lexus? If so, you may find the following information to be some help. If not, I apologise if it appears that I'm trying to teach my granny to suck eggs.

First of all, hybrids don't have a traditional starter motor or alternator, or anything that would normally be driven by a belt from the engine because the engine doesn't run all the time - imagine being halfway through a turn and you lose power steering because the engine shuts down! Instead, it's all driven electrically.

 The 12V battery boots up the computers and gets the car into READY mode, equivalent to switching on the ignition and having the engine idling in a conventional car. At this point you can drive off on battery power alone if you so wish, but these aren't electric cars and you'd only get a couple of miles (if that) before the traction (hybrid) battery was effectively flat. When the hybrid system wants the petrol engine (ICE - Internal Combustion Engine) to run, it energises Motor/Generator 1 (MG1) and uses that to spin the ICE up to 1,000rpm before applying fuel and a spark to fire it.

 In a standard car the 12V battery is charged up by the alternator but we don't have one. Instead, a device called a DC/DC converter steps down the 288V from the traction battery to about 14.5V to charge it. The converter/inverter uses the same process for other systems like the power steering which, if I remember correctly, uses 48V.

 The aircon compressor is driven by a 500V 3-phase AC variable frequency motor and the two hybrid transaxle motors MG1 and MG2 are both 650V permanent magnet motors. Talking of the aircon compressor, if the system ever needs to be regassed, make sure that you take it to an aircon specialist (or, of course, a Lexus dealer) who knows about and can deal with hybrids.

The reason for this is that, although the refrigerant gas is the same as any other car, the lubricating oil isn't. As I said above, the aircon compressor is driven by an electric motor and the motor windings are immersed in the oil for cooling purposes. Standard compressor oil is called PAG oil but it's a low dielectric oil which means that it conducts electricity and it will damage the motor windings. We need to use ND11 oil which is a high dielectric and won't damage the windings. It's been shown that as little as 1% contamination by PAG oil can, and will, cause problems. Maybe not immediately but it will. Ideally, a specialist should have a dedicated ND11 machine so that cross-contamination with PAG can't happen.

 Although it's perfectly alright to jump start a hybrid with a standard car, NEVER, EVER, do it the other way round - you may get away with it but it's not worth the risk. The 12V battery in any car is only used for starting and then the alternator or equivalent takes over the running of the 12V systems such as lights, radio etc., etc. When jump starting the 'donor' car should have its engine running before the 'recipient' car attempts to start. This is so that the recipient will draw on the donor alternator, not its battery. This is all fine and dandy for a standard alternator because it can output anywhere upwards of 300A and a conventional starter motor will need every Amp of that, but our DC/DC converter can't supply anywhere near that amount and if it was asked to do so it may well expire with a very loud bang and lead to a very expensive repair.

 It's a very bad idea to run out of petrol in a hybrid but if you do, make sure to put in 10 litres before trying to start it and be aware that if you have more than three unsuccessful attempts at restarting, the hybrid system could lock out and need a dealer to reset it.

At traffic lights or other holdups, if you think you'll be moving in a minute or two, just leave the car in D with your foot on the brake. If you think it'll be a while before you move again, put the car in P and you can take your foot off the brake. However, don't put the car in N because the hybrid system doesn't charge the batteries in Neutral.

Sorry for boring you but now, above all else, enjoy the car.

OT but I'm a hybrid newbie as well and have a quick question. When I'm sitting at traffic lights and the ICE is turned off, sometimes I sit there for so long the ICE has to start up before I start moving. This causes the car to nudge forward a tiny bit, enough for me to feel it. Is this normal? If I had to guess it's caused by the moment of inertia of the planetary gears.

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If you have the brake pressed down (you should have if waiting for green light) then the car will not move. The little shake you feel would be the engine getting gasoline and ignition.

When using 98 octane the car we have is not moving or shaking, but BP 95 octane has had the car shake a bit a couple of times.

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17 hours ago, Las Palmas said:

If you have the brake pressed down (you should have if waiting for green light) then the car will not move. The little shake you feel would be the engine getting gasoline and ignition.

When using 98 octane the car we have is not moving or shaking, but BP 95 octane has had the car shake a bit a couple of times.

I am holding brake and as the engine starts I can feel the car wanting to move a tiny amount against the brakes. Hopefully someone else can comment also

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2 minutes ago, Sofa table said:

I am holding brake and as the engine starts I can feel the car wanting to move a tiny amount against the brakes. Hopefully someone else can comment also

I'm sure that what you're feeling is just the torque of the engine spinning up but even if I'm wrong, I don't think there's any need for concern. If the car is in D and you lift your foot off the brake then it will creep forward, but there's nothing wrong with holding your foot on the brake to prevent that.

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Thank you Herby👏👏👏

very good read. Is that information for all Lexus Hybrid I’ve a Lexus Nx 350h 202-

 

thanks again 

 

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58 minutes ago, Marlinleg said:

Thank you Herby👏👏👏

very good read. Is that information for all Lexus Hybrid I’ve a Lexus Nx 350h 202-

 

thanks again 

 

I believe it will be the same for all Lexus hybrid cars.

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1 hour ago, Marlinleg said:

Thank you Herby👏👏👏

very good read. Is that information for all Lexus Hybrid I’ve a Lexus Nx 350h 202-

 

thanks again 

 

Yes, applies equally to all Lexus hybrids.

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On 3/28/2022 at 12:32 AM, Nick0 said:

Hi all, new to Lexus, bought a low mileage CT from a Lexus dealer, where the battery had gone flat, apparently. Drove the 240 miles back from the dealer, left it 8 days, try to start it and get the "Shift P to Start" message. 

What does this mean? I trickle charged the 12v battery in the boot, it gave me the same message, then off and on, and it started. 

All help/experience/wisdom gratefully received! 

You get all sorts of weird errors when the 12v battery is flat, unfortunately the system hasn't been designed to properly detect this situation and give a meaningful message.

Glad your dealer is replacing it, you shouldn't have any issues after that.

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On 3/29/2022 at 5:29 PM, Herbie said:

I'm sure that what you're feeling is just the torque of the engine spinning up but even if I'm wrong, I don't think there's any need for concern. If the car is in D and you lift your foot off the brake then it will creep forward, but there's nothing wrong with holding your foot on the brake to prevent that.

One time this happened I could hear the brakes making a noise (pads sliding against rotor) as I was not on the brake pedal very heavily. This leads me to believe it was not just the engine shaking the car. Probably fine though as you said.

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2 hours ago, Sofa table said:

One time this happened I could hear the brakes making a noise (pads sliding against rotor) as I was not on the brake pedal very heavily. This leads me to believe it was not just the engine shaking the car. Probably fine though as you said.

As the engine is mounted across the vehicle, the rotational force would be in the lengthways direction of the vehicle. I would therefore expect there to be a vehicle movement if you were in P without the brakes engaged but not really if you have your foot on the brake in D. Worth making sure your engine mounts don't have any play in them which is contributing to this behaviour.

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