Is Texaco premium not really "premium"?

[Spock66]

57 minutes ago, DamianLEX said:

So today I had only 10 miles left to go in my RCF after gentle driving. Nearly empty.

I put as much petrol in as I possibly could (see pictures). I will not believe that we have more than 60 litres capacity in RCF until I see one screenshot with over 60 litres on the meter.

I think it's more likely you had more than 10 miles left in the tank, rather than the tank is smaller than stated.

[Rob RCF]

2 hours ago, DamianLEX said:

So today I had only 10 miles left to go in my RCF after gentle driving. Nearly empty.

I put as much petrol in as I possibly could (see pictures). I will not believe that we have more than 60 litres capacity in RCF until I see one screenshot with over 60 litres on the meter.

 

I have put in more than 60 litres at least once. You have to drive until it reaches "0 miles" and then keeping driving for at least another 30 miles or as much as you can bear to. You were nowhere near empty. They just give you something like 7-10 litres of overhead because they want to protect you from ever running out of fuel.

Also, you should not fill your tank to the brim like that! If you fill your fuel tank past the first click you risk flooding your vapour canister and other parts of the EVAP system with liquid fuel. If you don't know what I'm talking about this video is very informative: https://youtu.be/jPiiqcDxDxY

[Jgtcracer]

3 hours ago, DamianLEX said:

So today I had only 10 miles left to go in my RCF after gentle driving. Nearly empty.

I put as much petrol in as I possibly could (see pictures). I will not believe that we have more than 60 litres capacity in RCF until I see one screenshot with over 60 litres on the meter.

 

Sounds like a good game ‘how much can you add in one fill up??’  
 

Rewards risk taking.  I’ve only got a few days left so will have a go later this week.

[ubersonic]

7 hours ago, DamianLEX said:

So today I had only 10 miles left to go in my RCF after gentle driving. Nearly empty.

I put as much petrol in as I possibly could (see pictures). I will not believe that we have more than 60 litres capacity in RCF until I see one screenshot with over 60 litres on the meter.

That looks perfectly normal to me.

The fuel gauge (and remaining miles readout) on most Lexus/Toyota cars is not an empty to full gauge, it is a reserve to full gauge.

When you hit R (or 0 miles) you still have about 10 litres left until empty, and so it makes sense that putting 55.5L into a 66L tank when the gauge/counter isn't on reserve yet would fill it to the brim.

As far as I know it is done this way because you should never run a fuel injected car (especially a direct and port fuel injected car) on low fuel as running out of fuel (or under fuelling on high throttle) can cause serious damage.

[Rob RCF]

12 hours ago, ubersonic said:

As far as I know it is done this way because you should never run a fuel injected car (especially a direct and port fuel injected car) on low fuel as running out of fuel (or under fuelling on high throttle) can cause serious damage.

Probably because the fuel pumps rely on fuel passing through them for cooling. If the fuel level gets too low they could start pumping air and overheat. The high pressure fuel pumps in particular are very expensive.

[Spock66]

4 minutes ago, Rob RCF said:

Probably because the fuel pumps rely on fuel passing through them for cooling. If the fuel level gets too low they could start pumping air and overheat. The high pressure fuel pumps in particular are very expensive.

The fuel filter is also likely to get clogged if there is any debris in the tank, and if you were to run the tank dry you may find it's not just a matter of adding a gallon or two but the system may need priming to get all the air out.

[Marko89]

On 6/27/2022 at 7:29 PM, ColinBarber said:

It won't run on 91 RON, but that isn't available in the UK anyway. 95RON is the lowest suggested fuel on the F engine. 

American calcs are different for fuel ratings. There are conversion tables available on google. In fairness they still run a little lower than as but, it isn't as wide a gap as the initial number suggests. To add to the confusion they also have 2 ratings systems MON and PON. PON is what they can list at the pump if I recall correctly. 

So 95 at Tesco would be rated at something like 91 at pump in the States. 

On the argument of regular v premium, I have always found premium gives me a better economy return and either breaks even or saves a little over the long run. In terms of performance it has always been down to the engine - with a turbo the gains have always been far more noticeable than naturally aspirated.

We had a '68 plate Astra 1.6T as one of our previous cars and it would run like a dog on regular. The book recommended 97 but stated 95 was ok where not available. It always felt like we had hit an eco button and certainly far less eager to get up and go. On Esso / BP premium it was a totally different animal. It was certainly an outlier in terms of performance gains as the others were far less pronounced. 

To truly calculate the difference I reckon you need to fill up 2 or 3 times back to back to ensure you have cleared any of the old fuel from the system. 

[ColinBarber]

43 minutes ago, Marko89 said:

American calcs are different for fuel ratings. There are conversion tables available on google. In fairness they still run a little lower than as but, it isn't as wide a gap as the initial number suggests. To add to the confusion they also have 2 ratings systems MON and PON. PON is what they can list at the pump if I recall correctly. 

Not really sure why you are quoting me. I'm aware the US uses a different rating system, hence why I stated 95 'RON' is the lowest grade that Lexus list for the UK vehicles - which is roughly the same as the US's 91 PON. As this is a UK forum if someone states 95 or 98 that it should be assumed they are RON figures.

 

49 minutes ago, Marko89 said:

On the argument of regular v premium, I have always found premium gives me a better economy return and either breaks even or saves a little over the long run.

With the F engines this is more than just wanting to improve performance. Toyota documentation is inconsistent where some state 97 is minimum recommended but you can fall back to 95 for the occasional fill up and other documentation states 95 is fine all the time. Personally I found the engine runs fine on 95 when I used it, and couldn't really tell a difference when running on 98 - but you rarely get to use all 471 horses on the road anyway, so difficult to know how much top end power is lost.

On economy, it's probably not a high priority for F owners. Again personally when I've tested it in other vehicles I always found an improvement (around 5%) but never met or exceeded the 10% premium they seem to charge for it in my area.

[MNMJ]

On 7/26/2022 at 6:01 PM, Rob RCF said:

I have put in more than 60 litres at least once

My highest is 60.40 litres. It was on a French Autoroute, where the filling stations are quite widely spaced, so it was a sweaty time. I had gone quite a way past the zero kms range stage.

The £125.17 cost was a little unwelcome.

[Initial P]

I was at Costco last week and premium petrol was about .5p more than normal made me think how can be it any different compared to others at .20p+ more.

[BTCC_ Racer]

11 hours ago, Initial P said:

I was at Costco last week and premium petrol was about .5p more than normal made me think how can be it any different compared to others at .20p+ more.

I fill with Costco quite often and like you said its around 20p cheaper than anywhere else.

The car run very well on it, as it does on tesco 99 stuff.

Ive never used E10 on the ISF, car runs great on the super stuff. Pains me to put in rip off Vpower if i get caught out.

Since i changed all the fluids and new plugs the economy has improved. I recently did a run down south and I managed 319 miles on the tank and still had a range of 10 miles but we all know i could pushed it further. Im really impressed with the motorway economy.

[DamianLEX]

Sorry I am lazy but need to ask: Is ISF engine same about economy comparing to RCF? I mean 5.0 + eco mode too?

 

[Rob RCF]

2 hours ago, DamianLEX said:

Sorry I am lazy but need to ask: Is ISF engine same about economy comparing to RCF? I mean 5.0 + eco mode too?

 

The 2UR-GSE with atkinson cycle was available in the RCF onwards, so no, ISF didn't get it.

Best I've got with my RCF on a motorway run was about 33-34mpg, I don't know what ISFs get.

In theory an RCF should be able to do over 400 miles on a tank. 66L is 14.5 imperial gallons, multiply that by 30mpg gives 435 miles.

[ColinBarber]

4 hours ago, DamianLEX said:

Sorry I am lazy but need to ask: Is ISF engine same about economy comparing to RCF? I mean 5.0 + eco mode too?

 

Engine is more efficient in the RC F but the extra weight and fatter tyres even things out.

[ubersonic]

On 7/29/2022 at 4:14 PM, Rob RCF said:

Best I've got with my RCF on a motorway run was about 33-34mpg, I don't know what ISFs get.

Usually 32-34 MPG on a run.  Last one I did was Harwich to Rhyl (300+ miles) and it was showing 80+ miles range remaining, they can do over 400 miles on a tank (depending on fuel type).

[ubersonic]

On 7/27/2022 at 12:09 PM, Marko89 said:

On the argument of regular v premium, I have always found premium gives me a better economy return and either breaks even or saves a little over the long run.

This is because super unleaded fuels contain up to 5% ethanol, so give a measurable MPG increase compared to premium which contains 10% ethanol.

 

On 7/27/2022 at 1:08 PM, ColinBarber said:

Toyota documentation is inconsistent where some state 97 is minimum recommended but you can fall back to 95 for the occasional fill up and other documentation states 95 is fine all the time.

The inconsistency is essentially between versions of the manuals for different cars in different regions.

As far as the UK goes the engine used in the ISF was factory tuned for premium unleaded, it can use regular unleaded if that's all you can find but performance will be reduced (this isn't much of an issue as nowhere in the UK even sells regular unleaded).  The engine used in the RCF/GSF/LC500/IS500 is factory tuned for super unleaded (one of the reasons for the higher HP) and can use premium unleaded if that's all you can find and performance will be reduced.

[ColinBarber]

21 hours ago, ubersonic said:

This is because super unleaded fuels contain up to 5% ethanol, so give a measurable MPG increase compared to premium which contains 10% ethanol.

No, this was all before E10 came in. The octane rating allows a more advanced ignition timing to be used with is more efficient.

21 hours ago, ubersonic said:

The inconsistency is essentially between versions of the manuals for different cars in different regions.

No, I have seen official Toyota documentation that states 95 RON or higher for European versions of the RC F but states 98 RON or higher for the GS F even though the engine/ECU/mapping is identical. Then other documentation for the RC F is 98 RON.

 

[ubersonic]

2 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

No, this was all before E10 came in. 

It's been a thing since E5 came in in the 2000s, E10 just made it worse.

Prior to E10, Premium was 5% ethanol and Super was 0-5% ethanol so MPG loss with premium was measurable regardless of what RON the engine was tuned for.  Now Premium is 10% ethanol and Super is still 0-5% so MPG loss with premium is even more measurable.

NB: I'm not saying the isn't an efficiency improvement on the later 2UR-GSE engines, just pointing out that the MPG difference caused by the difference of ethanol content in Premium/Super will be much more pronounced.

 

2 hours ago, ColinBarber said:

No, I have seen official Toyota documentation that states 95 RON or higher for European versions of the RC F but states 98 RON or higher for the GS F even though the engine/ECU/mapping is identical. Then other documentation for the RC F is 98 RON.

I don't know where you read that, but I just double checked both the UK and French manuals for all the F cars and what I posted was correct.

The UK/French RC-F, GS-F and LC500 manuals all state to use 98 RON or higher, but with the caveat that 95 RON can be used without affecting durability/drivability.

The UK/French IS-F manuals state to use 95 RON or higher.  With the French one also including a caveat about using 91 (which as I said above isn't sold in the UK, hence it not being mentioned in the UK manual).

[Rob RCF]

On 7/26/2022 at 3:43 PM, DamianLEX said:

I will not believe that we have more than 60 litres capacity in RCF until I see one screenshot with over 60 litres on the meter.

 

Here you go:

Was driving around "empty" for a day or two up to this point. Just filled until the first click, then stopped. So if the tank capacity is 66L I must have had about 3.9 left.

[hockeyedwards]

3 hours ago, Rob RCF said:

Here you go:

Was driving around "empty" for a day or two up to this point. Just filled until the first click, then stopped. So if the tank capacity is 66L I must have had about 3.9 left.

Expensive putting diesel in isn't it 😉 🤣

[royoftherovers]

10 minutes ago, hockeyedwards said:

Expensive putting diesel in isn't it 😉 🤣

And more expensive to remove it !

[Rob RCF]

On 10/16/2022 at 5:55 PM, hockeyedwards said:

Expensive putting diesel in isn't it 😉 🤣

You might have to explain this one because I don't get it? What suggests I put diesel in?

[BillNick]

I would urge anyone to avoid Texaco like the plague.

Where I live (Orpington, Kent) there are 3 Texaco garages nearby and they are all attempting to rip people off.

They are by standard around 15p more expensive than BP just around the corner and Esso further up the road.

Last week I drove past Texaco on Monday 189.99 for Diesel. Then drove past again on Weds and it was £199.99!!

Taking the micky making prices up as they wish like that.

Just to add into the chat, I use Esso Super 99. The manual recommends 98+ and I believe Rob has already explained the long term KCLV corrections our sophisticated ECUs make. Though you will prob not notice any difference driving ordinary roads.

[hockeyedwards]

3 hours ago, Rob RCF said:

You might have to explain this one because I don't get it? What suggests I put diesel in?

Nothing to suggest you did, merely mocking that regular Diesel is more expensive than Supreme 99!