Rx300 Se-l Vs Ml270cdi

[atok]

We've an IS200SE for the past 3+ years, and want to px our 2nd car (not Lexus) with a 4x4. We're down to RX300SE-L and ML270CDi at photo finish and it's really a hard decision.

ML, for the reason that a new model is coming out soon, is giving a 10% discount. In addition, it can fits an extra of 2 seats at the boot space making it a 7 seater. However, RX looks sleeker and obviously, as a newer version, it has more features... and probably drives better.

I've been reading reviews from www.curtrich.com (american site) which highlighted some neg info not mentioned by Lexus dealer, but it was more on the older RX and putting more confusion into this matter.

Please help us on this one as we're looking to decide by next week. :D Cheers!

[ColinBarber]

I think you really need to test drive them both. You should be able to get a Lexus on a 24 hour test drive without any problems.

If you are reading reviews about the series I RX then it's not really worth while. The car has been improved in almost all areas. What negative things did you read?

The only thing I can see the ML270 has over the RX is fuel economy and the 7 seats (although I would never want to sit in the boot in case of an accident). Other than that the RX is in a different class - drives better, quiter, smoother, looks better, higher spec, better reliability, better build quality etc etc.

Also you should be able to get £1000 to £2500 off the list price of the RX depending on the model.

[Bazza]

come to the lexus club and ask if you should buy a lexus or a mercedes .....

definetly the lexus !!!

as for seven seats , do you really need them ?

are you willing to put your kids a few inches from the back of your vehicle

you wouldnt put them in the boot would you

second thoughts ...not bad idea !!

mercedes seem to sell ,because they have a good name, cant say i am too impressed with the ML , give one a test drive

where as the RX maybe isnt the best at handling, it certainly seems a nicer drive

and is also the top selling SUV in usa ,(funnily the ML is made in the USA) let down on the lack of diesel engines though

:)

[atok]

I've driven both, but not for 24 hrs; may be for just 30mins. And indeed RX feels better and smoother.

Though the review was on the older model of RX, can you please glance thru and see which one is still valid to the newer RX, please(www.curtrich.com/november1999.html). Thanks

[Realspeed]

My clients who have had Mercedes 4x4 wern't over impressed with the build quality and got rid of them pretty quick one. I havn't driven the Merc myself but from owners that had, put me off. Also its worth noting that the Volvo XC90, regarding the tyres, is the only car that has that size so if you need a replacement tyre you could have a long wait or pay main dealer prices I suspect.

Realspeed

[ColinBarber]

That is a very biased review. The RX isn't the best off-road but then how much people take them off-road so does ground clearance really apply? If so then look at a Toyota Land Cruiser

Some of the negative things are wrong, not in the UK models or do not apply to the facelift RX (end 2000) or the new RX (2003 +)

- The RX is bigger than the old one although not too big for UK roads

- Max. Towing weight (with brake) is 2000 Kg

- Suspension design - it's how it drives that matters and the RX is better.

- RX does use a cambelt not a chain but replaced at regular intervals - 100,000 miles doesn't sound regular to me. Also the engine won't be damaged if it breaks.

- Spark plugs, 60,000 or 100,000 not really regular - More engine bay space on the new RX so may be easier to change.

- New RX has a 5 speed auto box and is faster than the old one and better economy.

- Low range - again this is an on-road vehivle for occasional off-road - not really needed.

- The RX has more airbags - safest in the class.

- RX does have brake assist

- RX does have Electronic Stability Program (VSC)

- RX does have Sat Nav option (standard on SE-L)

- could pull the headliner off on the RX! Probably just fell off on the ML however build quality is improved on the new RX.

- The RX does not have knee bolsters - well it actually has a knee airbag making it more safe.

- The cup holders didn't hold a Coke can - doesn't know how to operate them then.

[DieterML]

Hi Atok,

Have had an ML for over 2 years now. I agree with Colin, get a 24h test drive for both.

Lexus is better on road but probably not as flexible as ML overall (off-road/seating/space etc.).

I've not had any problems with build quality (no more nor less than Lexus from what I've read) nor with Stealer (Mercedes Dartford). Also I've averaged 28.5mpg (which is (probably)some 5-6mpg better than Lexus).

There are 'good deals' on the ML at moment even though the new ML won't be here till next summer.

You "makes yer choice and you pays your money".

Cheers,

[Realspeed]

Over the last few years I have owned landcruisers -troopers-range rovers-explorers- etc and for one reason or another including BMW X5 (cancelled the order) I have found that Toyota (Lexus) do tend to give the best service are more reliable. With the others , not Toyota, either the service-warantee-quality-or in the BMW case getting a test drive (5 month wait) is what lets them down.

Even the service loan cars seem to be new and Toyota appear to do their upmost to get you a loan car model of your choice,whereas the other makes tend to dump you with anything thats handy at the time.

I have just done a pt/ex deal with my local Lexus dealer and the trade in price was about the same as if I tried to sell it privately(well above what I was expecting) which was a very pleasant shock. So its soon good bye to my 3 year old RX300se and hello to the RX300 se-L. Oh the car I have had for 3 years from new apart from service intervals, has only needed 1 brake light bulb and rear wiper, started first time every time and never let me down.

Realspeed

[Speejo]

I thought I would add to this debate.

I have owned two Mercedes ML, the first a petrol ML320 and then a diesel ML270.

I changed to the RX300SE in the last couple few weeks.

To restate what many have said you have to decide what you are looking for.

In my opinion the Mercedes does have some clear advantages, the boot space is significantly bigger, it can have 7 seats, the interior is tougher, the external looks are more pronounced (tonka toy like). In these areas the Lexus has no strong image (this model not the brand), and the lack of space and 7 seats give far less flexibility.

Comparing the Lexus to the ML320 (ML350 now) I have to say performance is very similar. I think the box on the Merc may have been smoother but my Lexus is new so I reserve judgement. Clearly the diesel is an added option and bonus BUT in my opinion woefully underpowered and down right dangerous in overtaking manoevures (especially with the family on French holidays).

Personally I would not have replaced my ML270 with another the same, the engine is simply not upto it, so you then have to compare the ML350 and the Lexus.

The Lexus has some very strong advantages, better ride quality, less body role, much better comfort, far higher specification or lower price for same spec. Never go off road so not an issue.

Finances were also a concern - on my last ML the 270 I kept it for 28 months and sold privately for £6,800 less than I paid for it. The previous ML320 was £8,000 in 2 years for a petorl model. Both quite remarkable. I may have been forced to think about the ML270 again for this simple reason had it not been for the new ML due in 2005. This will (& is already) hitting ML residuals hard. In July, August and September the Glass/CAP valuation for a 2 year old ML270 has dropped by well over £2.200 in 3 months! Mercedes wouldn't even PX my ML because they had too many, they tried to find another dealer to take, couldn't, and offered £2k under trade book.

As for discounts off new - you can get 10% off the Merc and £2k contribution to finance at the moment. Having said that you should expect no less than £2,500 off a RX300SE or above.

I personally never like buying a car just as that model ends,the uncertainty as to future valuation is too big a risk.

I have no regrets the Lexus it is refined, comfortable and amazingly equipped and will suit me very well for 2 years. OK 23mpg isn't great but I'll cope 29mpg in a diesel wasn't that much better.

What happens then with the new ML and the RX400h - who knows that might be a different story.

John