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Big Power Problems, Can You Help?


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I think most people are missing Mr Singh's point. In basic terms the cap as he says is the storage tank, when the demand is on the storage tank helps to keep the flow, because the original source (battery/alternator) is stressed out. Once the source stays under stress too long the tank will empty and you are back to square 1 with original dimming prob. So as the man says and everyone seems to agree...beef up the source then you wont need additional storage.

Good to see we all paid attention in physics class :D

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I think most people are missing Mr Singh's point. In basic terms the cap as he says is the storage tank, when the demand is on the storage tank helps to keep the flow, because the original source (battery/alternator) is stressed out. Once the source stays under stress too long the tank will empty and you are back to square 1 with original dimming prob. So as the man says and everyone seems to agree...beef up the source then you wont need additional storage.

Good to see we all paid attention in physics class :D

There is no question we agree with Mr Singh, On the physics of what the BATCAP does, but in favor of the BATCAP he is rubbishing the usefullness of the Capacitor.

we agre that a crap cap, in a badly installed system is pointless, but were offering here the 2 sided view, that is in this case for Mr Bison a BATCAP needed, i say no.....

i am intrested in the BATCAP myself.......in the fact it does indeed look a great bit of kit, and something i will recomend, and consider in the future, when the right applications require it. Or when customers pose system shortcoming in there set up.

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Basically, what Mr Singh is saying isn't wrong at all - you would be getting the better option. If you can afford it. He is showing you the best - you can't get better than that. Problem is, and it happens all too often, it could be overkill. At £119 though, it is a good deal for what you get.

End of the day, i have never ever used a cap.

Well, others notice a difference, and I tend to go by my own experiences too, as a fully trained electronics engineer with years of experience, rather than just be one sided based on what people say or what I read. I never instantly poo-poo things - I come to my own conclusions. In the right application, a cap is just fine as many, many people will confirm.

All this is providing the cap can supply the current for your needs. As everything was fine until your Battery became a bit low, this tells me that on a full Battery, you won't need that much more current.

What we are saying is that is cap is not useless and maybe a cheaper alternative or within your financial means. Caps have provided a solution to many users (noticeably, as with Supracharged comment further up). Too many people have applied them in the wrong application, or not charged them correctly in the first place, not put diodes inline if there's non in the cap so the current leaks back out to the cars electrical system. A cap will also give you benefits by filtering a degree of noise on the line. (If there is any).

A Cap is acting basically as an extension of the internal capacitors.

With a capacitor the response time is near zero, and is instead impedance limited to the amount of output it can generate.

The Batcap's response time is also at (and I quote from your link to the advert) 'at lightning speed' . I think you mean the charge lasts longer. It responds virtually instantly, just like a cap. If it didn't, you would experience the current drain at that time constant and notice your lights dim. It's no good kicking in 10milliseconds after your base burp!

The impedance of the cap is nominal. It is one of those other things that people jump straight onto. The impedance of the alternator itself will be higher! Batteries have an ESR too don't forget!

Ok, lets look at raw voltage figures.

You have, say, 14.4 volts to start with. the impedance of the capacitor, the impedance of the amp and the impedance of the alternator. Lets call them (and I'm being more than generous here) R1@.007 and R2@.12. We can't take into account the alternator as we don't know the figures. We'll assume a base burp of 100A

So, t = (-RC)ln(V/Vo) where V=voltage after time, t, and Vo is initial voltage.

To find the time, t, at which V drops by 10%, then V/Vo becomes a constant - .9.

Since R is .007 in series with .12 (round to .13 ohms) we have:

t = -(1 Farad)(.13 ohms)ln(.9) ~ .013 seconds

So, a 1 Farad capacitor, during our 100A bass burp, will take just over 13 milliseconds to reach the 90% voltage level (12.6 volts), after this, the cap is not helping with current drain as effectively. A 3 Farad capacitor of the same ESR takes about 40 milliseconds to arrive at the 90% level.

As you aren't on full power all the time, say at a quarter of that your car's electrical system presents an unacceptable voltage drop (at 25 amps), then yes the cap may help but you will be masking a larger problem. It could in fact be a Battery or alternator problem that doesn't show up in the tests. A batcap will mask these even further.

Voltage and current are completely different. It still surprises me how many people get confused with voltage and current. Just because a voltage drops, doesn't mean it is below the amp's threshold working voltage.

The voltage can still drop (as with the tests 'prove' on the other website misleadingly) but the current provided will be more than enough for the amp as the internal voltage regulators must allow for transients inline by their very nature.

A batcap will provide more current than a cap and is most definately better IF IT IS NEEDED, and of course if you can afford to put one in.

As with Batcap, a capacitor will provide current. If the current drawn is too high for the capacitor, then there will be little benefit (although there will still be some providing it is correctly wired).

In summary, If you aren't drawing too much current, and I suspect you aren't because all was ok until recently, which we think is just a low Battery, then the cap will work ok and cover this should the Battery get a bit low again (as on cold mornings with everything on, etc.)

Yup, everything said makes perfect sense.

I think to sum this up, Bison should let us know what he is currently pulling in terms of current from his power supply... i'm pretty sure he will need to do the TB3 and upgrade his Battery.

Batcap is proven product with real world results.. they aren't the cheapest, but it will sort out the problem of voltage dropping on big transients.

Cheers.

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:tsktsk: me all this so you can deafen yourself and every other road user ,I am a great believer that their should be a law against loud music being played from cars between certain times.some :tsktsk: in a fiesta sat outside my house for ten minutes at 2am last night with his music on ,woke my kids and me ,when i approached him the spotty little :tsktsk: said whats the problem :huh: .i am still waiting for him to knock to get back the front to his head unit :D .WHY do they need to have it so loud and bassy if yer neighbour did it in doors you would be hammering on thier door .

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lmao at mudz,, thats one for the comman man eh... wouldnt be so bad if the bloody spotty erks had some respect and manners to think,, hold up its 2am, and im sitting here, lets just turnthe music down..

Re caps debate,, it seems that thers is no right or wrong,, just depends one your budget and needs..

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the spotty little  :tsktsk:  said whats the problem  :huh: .i am still waiting for him to knock to get back the front to his head unit  :D .

:lol: thats brill..dam mudz next time if you find a spotty :tsktsk: in a porsche playing loud music after midnight and b4 7am you call me before you take the head unit and I'll have the car :lol:

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