Rx400h 'sold Out' For 2005

Lexusjohn · March 21, 2005

Continuation
I don't like the BMW X5 and wont be buying one, but the car (like all cars) has some good points, and I don't think the RX400h will beat it in all areas.

Taking your X5 comparison to the Rx400h I'm not sure all your numbers stack up, but I'm not going to do an advert BMW to disprove your point here.

The extra fuel ecconomy of the RX400h is marginal. Just £200 pa for a car doing 10k miles per year. Even in the unlikely event of you doing all 10,000 miles in the city you would still only save £500 pa. Big deal - not.

Regarding faster, we all know that it's not the 0-62 time that matters but how it's delivered in normal driving situations. Most people would'nt notice the difference between the two in everyday driving. If LexusJohn's comments on power deliver are confirmed, it's points to the X5.

Regarding less expensive, most peoiple see beyond the sticker price. Based on your prices and What Car residuals of 65% for the RX300 and 70% for the X5 you would lose 18 grand on the Lexus vs 14 grand on the BMW.

Re your question do you have a problem? Answer quite possibly. This isn't leapfrog, but it might be catch-up?

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Sorry to intrude, but this post is full of bad info.

Only thing that you will really notice first in RX400h is thremendous power. Every time you hit the pedal, you will notice huge difference.

Its passing times - for example 50-70mph should be 1sec faster than anything else other than 4.8is which is much, much more expensive car...

You should also get significantly better mpg. Now you can claim it will "not" get same mpg as claimed, but does the V6 diesel get same mpg in town as claimed? surely not :-).

It should get some 30% better mpg than RX300, while being much, much faster vehicle... To me, that sounds pretty awesome...

and p.s. it is sooo quiet, even in cold mornings...

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I will test drive one when they come out in uk, just been out in LS430, awsome. Booked a test drive in the new GS300 (245BHP) for 2 weeks time, may be very good!

spwolfx · March 21, 2005

Heh, I am sure you will like it. I have been following RX400h for a while, and I am sure there is a bit of scepticism, especially in Europe, as to how much better hybrids really are. A lot of this comes from German carmakers which are now on defensive because they are way too late to the game.

For people that dont know, RX400h has 3 electric generators (engines), totalling some >220hp of electric power. One of them is only used for recharging batteries, so there is some 170hp left for powering vehicle - this is on top of 208hp petrol engine :-).

Now, reason Lexus claims "only" 268hp is because their peak hp is at different levels. Electric engines peak at about 2k rpm while gas engine peaks at some 5k rpm. What you get at the end is constant speed and power from down below to the top.

This is why passing speed - which is also great point for diesels - is so awesome, in fact it is better than SRX V8 with 320hp, which is considered very fast suv in the states...

We had an german guy come to clublexus.com and share his german drive experience (which was first european experience we heard), and he said that RX400h was actually too fast for him. Every time he pressed the pedal, RX would jump like crazy - thats what all that electric power gives you.

Now turbo diesels still have their own merrits, and I dont think hybrid technology excludes them at all, but RX400h should be more powerful (electric generators are way faster to respond), a lot more refined (cold morning starts?) while spending similar amounts of gas...

I am definetly looking into getting one when it finally arrives to the europe. We shall see....

JohnRX400h · March 22, 2005

Eh more than 268 BHP? Hang on - can't have my wifes car having more HP than mine - time to get stage three turbo on the TT!!!! My 280 is looking challenged!

;-)

DieterML · March 22, 2005

"A lot of this comes from German carmakers which are now on defensive because they are way too late to the game."

Hi all,

Not really. Mercedes should have S400CDi hybrid for sale next year with ML-Hyper to follow?: click here

http://users2.ev1.net/~dagley/htdocs/M/2005hybridTrans.html

This system operates along the drive shaft through 7-speed auto box (not cvt etc.) so retains complete 4 x 4 'ness' and it will also 'go' off-road etc. (unlike 4h, but not that I do, nor is it a bad thing :D ) i.e. it will feel more like non-hybrid etc.

Also whilst electric motors are rated at 200-odd bhp etc, at full 'chat' the batteries will go flat pretty quick. Hence the more conservative estimate from Lexus? It's the same for the often quoted 3200ft lbs of torque? It's an SUV, not a dragster!!

I'm getting a test drive in June but I've never liked cvt transmission (old daf) and it's perhaps not flexible enough for us (big dog etc.?) but I'll wait and see. Price (v new ML) may also be an issue but....?

I think Autoexpress carried out a survey and clearly demonstrated that most (if not all) cars failed to achieve manufacturers mpg figures etc. i.e. the standard mpg test does not reflect real life driving (apart from the guy with the X5!).

I don't think this thread is full of misinformation, do you? :winky:

Cheers,

Dieter

spwolfx · March 28, 2005

"A lot of this comes from German carmakers which are now on defensive because they are way too late to the game."
Hi all,

Not really. Mercedes should have S400CDi hybrid for sale next year with ML-Hyper to follow?: click here

http://users2.ev1.net/~dagley/htdocs/M/2005hybridTrans.html

This system operates along the drive shaft through 7-speed auto box (not cvt etc.) so retains complete 4 x 4 'ness' and it will also 'go' off-road etc. (unlike 4h, but not that I do, nor is it a bad thing :D ) i.e. it will feel more like non-hybrid etc.

Also whilst electric motors are rated at 200-odd bhp etc, at full 'chat' the batteries will go flat pretty quick. Hence the more conservative estimate from Lexus? It's the same for the often quoted 3200ft lbs of torque? It's an SUV, not a dragster!!

I'm getting a test drive in June but I've never liked cvt transmission (old daf) and it's perhaps not flexible enough for us (big dog etc.?) but I'll wait and see. Price (v new ML) may also be an issue but....?

I think Autoexpress carried out a survey and clearly demonstrated that most (if not all) cars failed to achieve manufacturers mpg figures etc. i.e. the standard mpg test does not reflect real life driving (apart from the guy with the X5!).

I don't think this thread is full of misinformation, do you? :winky:

Cheers,

Dieter

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first of all, MB doesnt even have an production hybrid system, they are some 7 yrs behind... Once they actually start selling one, we can talk about it. Right now, it is all press talk (PR).

As to the speed, one again - RX400h is not an Prius... It has significantly more power (3x) and it is better at recharging, has better batteries, etc, etc.

Outside of driving it on the track, there should be no problems with depleting the batteries.

For example, nice X5 3.0d goes 50-70mph in 5.1 secs, RX400h goes 50-70mph in 3.5 secs. Thats an huge difference.

You will see the difference when you drive it :-). Main point is that if people are expecting some slow-poke version of RX300 that saves gas and goes slowly, they are in for the suprise. You have to compare it with most powerful competitors in order for it to make sense financially.

So if you are looking to save money over RX300, then no way will it pay for itself. If you are looking for high performance SUV that saves gas as well, then you should like it.

And refinement of an petrol hybrid can not be matched by an diesel. Of course, you get used to the diesel sound but those cold mornings get me annoyed when I am in diesel.

johnc201 · March 29, 2005

Ah, yes, but will the electric only reverse (or "back-up" as the Japanese so quaintly put it) have the torque, and grip, to push my caravan uphill on a grassy wet slope???