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Little Help Please!


Tony-Bones
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Little help please to resolve major issues with members cars here from the lowered club?

Several cars are still in geometric distress due to the rear toe position.

-50mm takes the rear toe 'D' cam adjuster out of reach and does not permit the camber to be recovered..... in fact the camber angle needs to be violated in order to adjust the toe.

What is needed is an external adjustable rear control arm! i am sure i have seen one here in LOC but not sure where....... possibly in the 'Drift' section.... but 999 posts seems like a long nights reading

Mat....little help

TDI...little help

Pro-Lex.... little help

WIM.... little help........ (Oh ignore) that one it's me! :D

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There is no current easily available "alternative" to recover the rear camber, i am currently working on something

i am talks with a Japanese company, the question is how much will the rear camber kits cost, and who will want to purchase them.

if the "upperarm" im hoping will solve the problem could cost as much as £200 delivered, the question is, will people pay that, i know i will, what these people have to think is, can i justify the cost of the adjustable upper arms, against the cos of replacing tyres.

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There is no current easily available "alternative" to recover the rear camber, i am currently working on something

i am talks with a Japanese company, the question is how much will the rear camber kits cost, and who will want to purchase them.

if the "upperarm" im hoping will solve the problem could cost as much as £200 delivered, the question is, will people pay that, i know i will, what these people have to think is, can i justify the cost of the adjustable upper arms, against the cos of replacing tyres.

Not Camber Mat.. 'Toe'... i am sure you have an independent external rear control arm... the same type used on the Nissan 200/300 and type R.... Drift academy's 200sx needed some 15mm of correction on each rear wheel this was born via an 'external' adjustable rear tie rod.....Similar in design to the front toe adjuster but without the rack.... 0----////n\\\\----0

joint adjuster joint

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There is no current easily available "alternative" to recover the rear camber, i am currently working on something

i am talks with a Japanese company, the question is how much will the rear camber kits cost, and who will want to purchase them.

if the "upperarm" im hoping will solve the problem could cost as much as £200 delivered, the question is, will people pay that, i know i will, what these people have to think is, can i justify the cost of the adjustable upper arms, against the cos of replacing tyres.

I just had to put a rear upper arm on both my supra and my aristo and from toyota were both in excess of £200 and the only way to change the bushes and ball joint. So an adjustable version of these at the same price as stock and knowing you've got new bushes is well worth it.

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I would love to see something here....I'm lowered -80mm at the back and have over 2deg -ve camber

My car will be with the Prolex guys for the conversion soon, if anyone wants to take the opportunity to look at some options you are welcome. But that doesn't include stripping the feckin wishbone :blink:

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Not Camber Mat.. 'Toe'... i am sure you have an independent external rear control arm... the same type used on the Nissan 200/300 and type R.... Drift academy's 200sx needed some 15mm of correction on each rear wheel this was born via an 'external' adjustable rear tie rod.....Similar in design to the front toe adjuster but without the rack.... 0----////n\\\\----0

        joint  adjuster  joint

in that case TDI sell the toe control arms.

however lots of people seem to have camber problems....so thats what im currently working on

these are the items from TDI

traction_toe_control_arms.sized.jpg

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Not Camber Mat.. 'Toe'... i am sure you have an independent external rear control arm... the same type used on the Nissan 200/300 and type R.... Drift academy's 200sx needed some 15mm of correction on each rear wheel this was born via an 'external' adjustable rear tie rod.....Similar in design to the front toe adjuster but without the rack.... 0----////n\\\\----0

        joint  adjuster  joint

in that case TDI sell the toe control arms.

however lots of people seem to have camber problems....so thats what im currently working on

these are the items from TDI

traction_toe_control_arms.sized.jpg

In the domestic area the lowered club needs to recover from toe positions....then the Camber.... 'curious' i assume you are 'coming up' in Camber recovery rather than lowering? (another topic my be!)

Thank you Mat..... 'lowered club' that's it (adjustable external rear adjusters)..... purchase these then the problem can be solved in full :D

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We sent the last set to Mat for the Drifty. Any more will be made to order  :)

I think you could own a new market here!

In explanation, 2 in 10 non modified IS200/300 i work on do not permit the 'D' cam to correct the toe... to complete some form of geometry equilibrium i have to use the camber to in-directly adjust the toe..... this is not 'end of days' but also not perfect.

The modified club are in much more distress... to correct their toe the camber is very violated and must be recovered.

I invited Fever into the centre with the intention of 'over-riding' the 'D' cam and positioning the arm manually..... once i stripped all the surrounding components away then the real problem fell into place.

The tie rod has an internal oval that permits the movement of the external 'D' cam, the problem is the internal oval is to small and does not permit full adjustment offered by the external 'D' cam......

LOC the reason normal after market modifications does not support this type of tie rod is because the car already has factory fitted adjusters.

This arm manufactured by TDI is the only way i can finalize your geometry!

Mark can you indicate any prices.

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I invited Fever into the centre with the intention of 'over-riding' the 'D' cam and positioning the arm manually.....

Tony

Is that like levering the wheel with a crowbar :D

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I invited Fever into the centre with the intention of 'over-riding' the 'D' cam and positioning the arm manually.....

Tony

Is that like levering the wheel with a crowbar :D

'AHHH' we was there..... i can remember our banter....... 'You push' I 'Pull' and wheres the 'Cat'.....

Early days!

Never would i imagine the design internally would not permit the visual external cam.... how mad is that? no wonder the cam rises over the ledge!!!!

Anyway new turf gained and TDI will have a steady stream of tie rods to build.

.

.

.

.

Also my PC is going 'tits-up' again so i might be off-line for a daaa......year or two!

Watch this space >( ) < not literally.... :duh:

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Tony.....you know my settings :shifty:

Shuuuuuuuush thats between us :shifty:

Over the winter i have writtern some new forces for the Driffty....

Still in argument with myself with some positions but 06 is the year of the 'drift' UK so who knows......

What i realy lack is 'driver requirments'..... you know.... more this? less that?....

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Tony.....you know my settings :shifty:

Shuuuuuuuush thats between us :shifty:

Over the winter i have writtern some new forces for the Driffty....

Still in argument with myself with some positions but 06 is the year of the 'drift' UK so who knows......

What i realy lack is 'driver requirments'..... you know.... more this? less that?....

well the next time the drifty is up and running, its gonna be a whole new beast

regarding the new arms from TDI, people are going to have to commit ...before they can be made up, and its not a simple arm replacement either

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Tony.....you know my settings :shifty:

Shuuuuuuuush thats between us :shifty:

Over the winter i have writtern some new forces for the Driffty....

Still in argument with myself with some positions but 06 is the year of the 'drift' UK so who knows......

What i realy lack is 'driver requirments'..... you know.... more this? less that?....

well the next time the drifty is up and running, its gonna be a whole new beast

regarding the new arms from TDI, people are going to have to commit ...before they can be made up, and its not a simple arm replacement either

you do know i have a set of cantered eye ends and a few fork ends from the original version of this post for the monster

However they are with my OEM airbox so when i find that i will have those again :blush:

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Tony.....you know my settings :shifty:

Shuuuuuuuush thats between us :shifty:

Over the winter i have writtern some new forces for the Driffty....

Still in argument with myself with some positions but 06 is the year of the 'drift' UK so who knows......

What i realy lack is 'driver requirments'..... you know.... more this? less that?....

well the next time the drifty is up and running, its gonna be a whole new beast

regarding the new arms from TDI, people are going to have to commit ...before they can be made up, and its not a simple arm replacement either

Understandably people will need to pay up-front.....a group buy is needed if everyone who has had a geo done and the cam has risen over the adjuster ledge..... i know of 20 cars.... and who knows how many to follow....

TDI... we need an idea of cost please.

And mat...... I'm concerned you say 'not a simple arm replacement' why?... is there something in the fitting i have overlooked?.... the only area that i have not completed is to totally remove the inner bolt at the D cam.

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the slot in which the excentric adjuster is fitted is elongated, for the replacement adjuster arms to be fitted, plates need welding to the bracket to make them holes not elongated slots, as all adjustment is then done on the arm

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the slot in which the excentric adjuster is fitted is elongated, for the replacement adjuster arms to be fitted, plates need welding to the bracket to make them holes not elongated slots, as all adjustment is then done on the arm

The current setup supports the elongated slots by using the D cam seated within the adjuster ledges, if i fitted the new arm couldn't the adjuster cam act as the welded plate, remembering the 'domestic' car wont need to resist the same sort of forces as the 'drifty'..... also i could 'rest' the new arm internally against the inner cross member could that combined, belay the need to weld in your opinion.

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the slot in which the excentric adjuster is fitted is elongated, for the replacement adjuster arms to be fitted, plates need welding to the bracket to make them holes not elongated slots, as all adjustment is then done on the arm

The current setup supports the elongated slots by using the D cam seated within the adjuster ledges, if i fitted the new arm couldn't the adjuster cam act as the welded plate, remembering the 'domestic' car wont need to resist the same sort of forces as the 'drifty'..... also i could 'rest' the new arm internally against the inner cross member could that combined, belay the need to weld in your opinion.

its best speaking with mark.

the plates that need welding dont take that long to put on, infact one everything is stripped down the welding takes only a few mins, a splash of point then rebuild of the arm

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the slot in which the excentric adjuster is fitted is elongated, for the replacement adjuster arms to be fitted, plates need welding to the bracket to make them holes not elongated slots, as all adjustment is then done on the arm

The current setup supports the elongated slots by using the D cam seated within the adjuster ledges, if i fitted the new arm couldn't the adjuster cam act as the welded plate, remembering the 'domestic' car wont need to resist the same sort of forces as the 'drifty'..... also i could 'rest' the new arm internally against the inner cross member could that combined, belay the need to weld in your opinion.

its best speaking with mark.

the plates that need welding dont take that long to put on, infact one everything is stripped down the welding takes only a few mins, a splash of point then rebuild of the arm

Will do.... hopfully Mark will be in aggrement.... if the welding is required then i will not be able to do the fitting for the members..... one: my welding is 'pants' two the centre would charge to much for the job anyway and i wont allow that to happen.

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the slot in which the excentric adjuster is fitted is elongated, for the replacement adjuster arms to be fitted, plates need welding to the bracket to make them holes not elongated slots, as all adjustment is then done on the arm

The current setup supports the elongated slots by using the D cam seated within the adjuster ledges, if i fitted the new arm couldn't the adjuster cam act as the welded plate, remembering the 'domestic' car wont need to resist the same sort of forces as the 'drifty'..... also i could 'rest' the new arm internally against the inner cross member could that combined, belay the need to weld in your opinion.

its best speaking with mark.

the plates that need welding dont take that long to put on, infact one everything is stripped down the welding takes only a few mins, a splash of point then rebuild of the arm

Will do.... hopfully Mark will be in aggrement.... if the welding is required then i will not be able to do the fitting for the members..... one: my welding is 'pants' two the centre would charge to much for the job anyway and i wont allow that to happen.

to make this all a little easier to understand ive just been down and removed the subframe...... :shifty:

adjuster arrowed, on drift car subframe

pic 1, Shows the rear Subframe, complete with Differential and drive shafts

subframe_1.sized.jpg

this pic shows the beam again, with the Tie Bar fram mounting brackets arrowed

subframe_2_arrow.sized.jpg

The following 4 images are different views of the same area

tie_bar_bracket_1.sized.jpg

tie_bar_bracket_2.sized.jpg

tie_bar_bracket_3.sized.jpg

tie_bar_bracket_4.sized.jpg

these pictures show the fix that TRD did on the race cars, which has also been don now on the drifty and on the monster, as can be seen on the top image(outlined) is the plate welded to the bracket

member_zoom.jpg

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Thanks for removing the whole rear Mat...... your a star! :winky:

Lovely pics! and they show something that has given me hope.

In the modified section the adjuster ledges have been removed, i hope the mods done by TDI are a race requirement or to add stability in the rear construction.

Sitting back and looking at the design it makes sense to reinforce the rear tie rods since on the 'Drifty' all (hopefully) forces will be lateral... i wonder if we can calculate that the replacement arms and the adjuster ledges are sufficient to permit normal longitudinal forces..... minor in comparison....

My only real worry now is.... is the arm designed only to fit the modified member :crybaby:

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