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Little Help Please!


Tony-Bones
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Thanks for removing the whole rear Mat...... your a star!  :winky:

no problem, did it about.....12 months ago

My only real worry now is.... is the arm designed only to fit the modified member

the arms only fit the modified bracket, maybe Mark can come up with a different design.

BUT, if i was doing that, id need to know numbers, or rough numbers, the only alternative is waiting to see what happens with my investigations in Japan

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Thanks for removing the whole rear Mat...... your a star!  :winky:

no problem, did it about.....12 months ago

My only real worry now is.... is the arm designed only to fit the modified member

the arms only fit the modified bracket, maybe Mark can come up with a different design.

BUT, if i was doing that, id need to know numbers, or rough numbers, the only alternative is waiting to see what happens with my investigations in Japan

Purely from my area some 20 cars need the adjuster tie rods.... from this i would assume a volume in the future and this excludes other forums viewing threads here.

NOTE to LOC members here..... those of you who knowingly have this rear geometry toe problem can you speak up anytime soon..... otherwise Mat, TDI and myself are only blowing up balloons and wasting our time!

Personally i know there is no other option to recover the geometry.

Mat i Thank You for you time and obvious efforts on this topic..... now it's time for some names to appear then we can move on.

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I have an idea to avoid the welding. Make up a plate with a "filler" to close off the slotted hole bearing on the outside like this

Drawing1.jpg

I need to buy a wider screen :D

In view of our 'crow bar meet' and looking at the design cant we just rest the internal part of the arm against the cross member, then use the 'D' cam to hold that position against the factory ledge.... i cannot see how this could move since it would be 'static' in position.... even better than in normal use... once positioned then the external adjuster would permit the correction needed...... what do you think?

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With Mat on seeing what you are saying.

From the pics posted by Mat there appears to be a "snail cam" on both sides with a nut to lock it all up, never noticed that before! But it would make sense that both sides need to be pulled evenly. How does that work? are both cams connected somehow?

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i see your idea tony, but would the eccentric adjuster fit through the new adjustable arm?

Not sure.. the external 'D' cam has no interest in the arm other than support, but the through bolt is designed to turn and hold the cams, if the bore in the new arm only allows a standard bolt then it's 'tits up' and the welded plate is the only method.

In explanation to members reading

The adjuster bolt has a center 'V' female cut along it's length..... the external 'D' cams that push or pull on the adjuster ledge have a 'male' 'V' extruding and this allows the turning bolt to push/pull and permit movement.

Back to Mat.... possible modification to the center bolt with a V cut and outer cams could become part of the overall kit?.....I'm sure this could evolve and with some development become part of the modification market.... 'i need it now!'

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If I got this right the standard bolt has a "keyway" that engages on the cams.

The bolt diameter must be the same as the width of the slot that it moves in.

Assuming that the TDI adjustable arm bolt fits the standard slot modified to a hole by the welded plates it should be no problem :D

Edited by MacRS200
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If I got this right the standard bolt has a "keyway" that engages on the cams.

The bolt diameter must be the same as the width of the slot in that it moves in.

Assuming that the TDI adjustable arm bolt fits the standard slot modified to a hole by the welded plates it should be no problem :D

But there is an absolute need (without the weld) for the 'through bolt' to capture and hold the external cams...... surly then there would be no need to weld.

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If I got this right the standard bolt has a "keyway" that engages on the cams.

The bolt diameter must be the same as the width of the slot in that it moves in.

Assuming that the TDI adjustable arm bolt fits the standard slot modified to a hole by the welded plates it should be no problem :D

But there is an absolute need (without the weld) for the 'through bolt' to capture and hold the external cams...... surly then there would be no need to weld.

Agreed Tony :D

What I was trying to say was that the standard bolt should fit through the TDI ball joint AND the cams without modifying anything. That is assuming that the TDI bolt diameter is the same as the standard bolt. It may be that the welded plate is required to reduce the bolt diameter.

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Now it's topic's and content like this that make this club great!!! :)

Tony as you know I am one of the unlucky ones, so my name is down as a definite!

Seriously learning some stuff here...thank you so much guys!!

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I was thinking about making up some plates like these to locate the bolt in the slot in a fixed position.

locator%20plate.jpg

The inner bit locates in the slot and the outer flange would be clamped by the bolt.

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I was thinking about making up some plates like these to locate the bolt in the slot in a fixed position.

locator%20plate.jpg

The inner bit locates in the slot and the outer flange would be clamped by the bolt.

Well i don't think this will be needed (cost) is an issue so i thought

If the cams were set at there max and pulled the rod as far positive as possible we would then know the rod is resting hard against the cross member and both ledges and within the strongest part of it's adjuster range.

TDI i think have forecast that for drift the lateral forces will surpass the cross members design and reinforced the area in advance of any failure

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I was thinking about making up some plates like these to locate the bolt in the slot in a fixed position.

locator%20plate.jpg

The inner bit locates in the slot and the outer flange would be clamped by the bolt.

Well i don't think this will be needed (cost) is an issue so i thought

If the cams were set at there max and pulled the rod as far positive as possible we would then know the rod is resting hard against the cross member and both ledges and within the strongest part of it's adjuster range.

TDI i think have forecast that for drift the lateral forces will surpass the cross members design and reinforced the area in advance of any failure

nope the bolt bent on the Monster, there is no damage to the drift cars suspension

Edited by Monster-Mat
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I was thinking about making up some plates like these to locate the bolt in the slot in a fixed position.

locator%20plate.jpg

The inner bit locates in the slot and the outer flange would be clamped by the bolt.

Well i don't think this will be needed (cost) is an issue so i thought

If the cams were set at there max and pulled the rod as far positive as possible we would then know the rod is resting hard against the cross member and both ledges and within the strongest part of it's adjuster range.

TDI i think have forecast that for drift the lateral forces will surpass the cross members design and reinforced the area in advance of any failure

nope the bolt bent on the Monster, there is no damage to the drift cars suspension

Was that due to the forces on the bolt or impact?

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I was thinking about making up some plates like these to locate the bolt in the slot in a fixed position.

locator%20plate.jpg

The inner bit locates in the slot and the outer flange would be clamped by the bolt.

Well i don't think this will be needed (cost) is an issue so i thought

If the cams were set at there max and pulled the rod as far positive as possible we would then know the rod is resting hard against the cross member and both ledges and within the strongest part of it's adjuster range.

TDI i think have forecast that for drift the lateral forces will surpass the cross members design and reinforced the area in advance of any failure

nope the bolt bent on the Monster, there is no damage to the drift cars suspension

Was that due to the forces on the bolt or impact?

it was due to "some" forces, hoever thats not the point, the adjustable arms are required to adjust toe

i think mac's idea is a good way of making the kit more DIY

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What i am trying to avoid is the welding, 'toe' is our target here and the adjusters TDI designed for drifty are the only ones that could do the job.

The reason i read a bit :duh: is that both the 'D' cams and the new design by Mac would still be supported by the natural ledges.

I feel the real question is 'strength' and will there be a need to weld/reinforce the cross member using the new adjusters on a domestic car. With the drift absolutely 'Yes' but i wonder since this is for the road and not expected to exceed normal use, do you think it's possible to simply replace the existing arm with TDI's modified arm.

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What i am trying to avoid is the welding, 'toe' is our target here and the adjusters TDI designed for drifty are the only ones that could do the job.

The reason i read a bit  :duh: is that both the 'D' cams and the new design by Mac would still be supported by the natural ledges.

I feel the real question is 'strength' and will there be a need to weld/reinforce the cross member using the new adjusters on a domestic car. With the drift absolutely 'Yes' but i wonder since this is for the road and not expected to exceed normal use, do you think it's possible to simply replace the existing arm with TDI's modified arm.

Tony

On the idea I have the bit that sticks out fits in the existing slot so the load is taken both ways (in and out) by the slot in the arm not the ledge. The hole in the middle means that the bolt will be mid way on standard adjustment, and the plates will not have to be "handed", they will fit either side. Also no welding the plates will be "sandwiched" by the bolt :)

I've also though of a fairly low cost way of making them :D

Edited by MacRS200
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What i am trying to avoid is the welding, 'toe' is our target here and the adjusters TDI designed for drifty are the only ones that could do the job.

The reason i read a bit  :duh: is that both the 'D' cams and the new design by Mac would still be supported by the natural ledges.

I feel the real question is 'strength' and will there be a need to weld/reinforce the cross member using the new adjusters on a domestic car. With the drift absolutely 'Yes' but i wonder since this is for the road and not expected to exceed normal use, do you think it's possible to simply replace the existing arm with TDI's modified arm.

Tony

On the idea I have the bit that sticks out fits in the existing slot so the load is taken both ways (in and out) by the slot in the arm not the ledge. The hole in the middle means that the bolt will be mid way on standard adjustment, and the plates will not have to be "handed", they will fit either side. Also no welding the plates will be "sandwiched" by the bolt :)

I've also though of a fairly low cost way of making them :D

Ok reads like this will reinforce... are you aware the are two cams on each arm, how will this effect cost?

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What i am trying to avoid is the welding, 'toe' is our target here and the adjusters TDI designed for drifty are the only ones that could do the job.

The reason i read a bit  :duh: is that both the 'D' cams and the new design by Mac would still be supported by the natural ledges.

I feel the real question is 'strength' and will there be a need to weld/reinforce the cross member using the new adjusters on a domestic car. With the drift absolutely 'Yes' but i wonder since this is for the road and not expected to exceed normal use, do you think it's possible to simply replace the existing arm with TDI's modified arm.

Tony

On the idea I have the bit that sticks out fits in the existing slot so the load is taken both ways (in and out) by the slot in the arm not the ledge. The hole in the middle means that the bolt will be mid way on standard adjustment, and the plates will not have to be "handed", they will fit either side. Also no welding the plates will be "sandwiched" by the bolt :)

I've also though of a fairly low cost way of making them :D

Ok reads like this will reinforce... are you aware the are two cams on each arm, how will this effect cost?

Tony you wont need the original eccentric bolts, as new bolt sets come with the arm,

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You don't need the cams anymore :D

Think of it like the sticking out bits are keys that fit the slot, you put one on either side leaving a hole through the middle that takes the bolt. The bolt passes through each plate and the ball joint, the whole lot is then fixed in position when it is tightened up.

No welding, cams riding over lips. etc

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You don't need the cams anymore :D

Think of it like the sticking out bits are keys that fit the slot, you put one on either side leaving a hole through the middle that takes the bolt. The bolt passes through each plate and the ball joint, the whole lot is then fixed in position when it is tightened up.

No welding, cams riding over lips. etc

Im sold...... all the 'no' bits will keep the cost down and we like that!.....

Time to contact TDI i think...... no more crow bars on the rear Neil :crybaby: are you ok with that :D ..... was fun though.... FKN scary... but fun :crybaby:

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mac if you can make up a test set of those inserts, i will try them on the drift car , get pics......and so on, after everyone is happy they do as we say, i will weld them on the drifty for security.

if, thats fine, by u of course

i will get measurements of the bolt now, and the width of the joint

arm_1a.sized.jpg

l------l________________

l------l________________/////////////////

l------l

l........................100mm.......................l

.........l.................85mm.......................l

.....................................l........50mm....l

arm_3.sized.jpg

Edited by Monster-Mat
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mac if you can make up a test set of those inserts, i will try them on the drift car , get pics......and so on, after everyone is happy they do as we say, i will weld them on the drifty for security.

if, thats fine, by u of course

i will get measurements of the bolt now, and the width of the joint

Also need thickness of the mounting plate and length of the bolt.

Will post up a drawing with the dimensions I need.

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