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Dampers, Tyre Wear, Front End Fear.


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Hi Folks,

As the new owner of a 2001 IS200 SE with 90,000 miles on the clock, I thought I might pick brains in this forum as to what direction I should take first with the following.

The front tyres are showing the internal edge wear problems mentioned often in this forum. Current tread is inside 40mm very worn, rest of the tyre 4-5mm, both tyres showing the same wear.

After a life of driving front wheel drive cars, I feel, maybe imagine or fear, the front end sliding away a little to easily. I certainly don't have confidence turning into tight slowish corners. Don't really know how it should be feeling.

I would like to have the geometry set up at some point by Mr Bones to hopefully alleviate the tyre problem, and cure anything else that could be upsetting the handling, if there is a handling problem at all.

My thoughts are that maybe after this type of mileage, new dampers my be worth fitting, though they show no obvious signs of excess wear.

So what order?

Dampers, Bones,Tyres

Tyres, Bones, Dampers

Bones, plus whatever action he advises.

Thanks in advance

Nigel

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I'd see Dr Bones - get your geometry sorted and some new tyres from him at a good price - then follow his advice!

Knows what he's talking about that fella... :winky:

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Thanks so far everyone.

So I check the lower arm for weld splatter, file off if found, then book in with Dr Bones for a assesment and rectification session.

Can only afford one change at a time so thats why I asked the question. Seems sensible reading back my own post and your replies to get the basic geometry right first then go from there.

Thanks again.

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Theres a known issue with the IS is that the lower suspension arm can have weld splatter on which prevents correct adjustment....you may want to look at removing this (file) first :winky:

first ive heard of it, Both the lower arms are cast, how can they have weld splatter on them?

, the upper wishbones however are pressed steel

i would look at getting your alignment checked firstly by tony, it is known that some dampers can fail early, but i think you will find that a propper set up by Tony and new tyres will give you back the confidence your currently lacking

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Thanks so far everyone.

So I check the lower arm for weld splatter, file off if found, then book in with Dr Bones for a assesment and rectification session.

Can only afford one change at a time so thats why I asked the question. Seems sensible reading back my own post and your replies to get the basic geometry right first then go from there.

Thanks again.

The IS200/300 is a beautiful car but owns a 'Pants Geometry'..... but as bad as the tyres look and despite the poor handling the problem is correctable.

There is one more issue with the geo and that's the Camber position written by Lexus is wrong :o this i can write for you but i will need 'habitual' information first.

Thanks for the kind words and recommendation everyone!

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May I just say that I am not displeased with the handling of the car as such, just that compared to my last two, A Peugeot 206 GTI and a Focus Zetec, the front end does not have that "dig in feel" when turning into sharp slow corners. As a new owner of a rear wheel drive car, I am still getting to grips with the feel and weight shift differences when accelerating,braking and cornering etc.

Dr Bones, sorry for being thick, what do you mean by habitual information. is it how and where I drive or the current set up. Guessing these options from reading your previous posts.

I thank you for your offer of writing me a set-up, but I only trust you from reading the forum, and I'm not sure how a third party would react to be told that the information they have is wrong.

Hardest job is actually finding someone who has an opinion right or wrong, most places seem to go by the "computer says no" policy. Hence your reputation for taking time to actually understand and evolve the setting to suit the driver and car.

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Theres a known issue with the IS is that the lower suspension arm can have weld splatter on which prevents correct adjustment....you may want to look at removing this (file) first :winky:

first ive heard of it, Both the lower arms are cast, how can they have weld splatter on them?

, the upper wishbones however are pressed steel

i would look at getting your alignment checked firstly by tony, it is known that some dampers can fail early, but i think you will find that a propper set up by Tony and new tyres will give you back the confidence your currently lacking

I can post up the official service bulletin if you want :D

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Theres a known issue with the IS is that the lower suspension arm can have weld splatter on which prevents correct adjustment....you may want to look at removing this (file) first :winky:

first ive heard of it, Both the lower arms are cast, how can they have weld splatter on them?

, the upper wishbones however are pressed steel

i would look at getting your alignment checked firstly by tony, it is known that some dampers can fail early, but i think you will find that a propper set up by Tony and new tyres will give you back the confidence your currently lacking

I can post up the official service bulletin if you want :D

yep, would be good to see it.

are you sure the weld splatter is on the lower arms, as the adjusting bolt goes through the subframe, Which is steel, but the arms are definatly cast, infact the only steel plate stuff on the front suspension is:

bracket shock absorber, which is bolted to the lower arm(cast), and the front subframe

the following front suspension parts are all machined cast parts and have no welded items on them at all, and therefore wont have weld splatter:

Knuckle steering (hub)

Link Control arm(the one that runs back from the hub, and fixes under the footwells)

Arm lower control( the lower arm, which is the one the adjuster attatches to the front subframe)

Joint lower ball( is affixed to the steering arm, and under the hub)

Edited by Monster-Mat
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is in adobe acrobat so cant get pretty pics...............

Have all service bulletins for ALL lexus cars to make sure when we service them they are tickety boooooooooooooooooooooooo :D

Service Bulletin

OVERSEAS CUSTOMER

SERVICE TECHNICAL DIV.

Ref. No. : CP-5005

Page : 1 of 3

Section : Chassis /

Power Train

Date : May.,2005

Area Application : Europe

Model Name : IS200, IS300

Model Code : GXE10, JCE10

Subject : Front Tire Uneven Wear

This Service Bulletin is to inform you of the production improvement and field fix for the subject concern.

DESCRIPTION OF PHENOMENON

Customer complains that Front tire require replacement earlier than expected due to uneven wear. The

inner edge of the tire is wearing prematurely.

Part No. Information :

Production Effective :

New Part No. New Part Name Qty

NA NA NA

VIN Production Date

NA NA

Service Bulletin

OVERSEAS CUSTOMER

SERVICE TECHNICAL DIV.

Ref. No. : CP-5005

Page : 2 of 3

Chassis/Power Train

Front Suspension

FIELD FIX REPAIR PROCEDURE

1. Check front wheel alignment.

2. If within current RM specification, adjust to Field Fix re-adjustment values (2.4 mm +- 0.6 mm

(total for LH an RH)).

3. If outside current RM specification, continue with following procedures:

4. Check for weld spatter on the contact surface between the camber adjusting nut and the

cross member.

5. Remove any weld spatter present on the surfaces

of the adjusting cam nut and cross member.

(a) Use a file as shown in below drawing.

(B) Remove spatter around the indicated portion of the

cross member (inside and outside).

6. Inspect and adjust wheel alignment as specified in the Repair Manual (Other than toe-in).

7. Adjust toe-in to the following measurements:

Use file to remove spatter

C117146E01

Camber adjusting

cam nut of No.1 lower

suspension arm

No.2 Lower Arm

No.1 Lower Arm

C117140E01

Service Bulletin

OVERSEAS CUSTOMER

SERVICE TECHNICAL DIV.

Ref. No. : CP-5005

Page : 3 of 3

Toe-in (total) A + B: 0°12' +- 0°06' (0.2° +- 0.1°)

C - D: 2 +- 1 mm (0.08 +- 0.04 in)

A

D

B

C

Front

C117141E01

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is in adobe acrobat so cant get pretty pics..............

Have all service bulletins for ALL lexus cars to make sure when we service them they are tickety boooooooooooooooooooooooo :D .

Yep i have a fair few...really handy arnt they..... :winky:

4. Check for weld spatter on the contact surface between the camber adjusting nut and the

cross member.

5. Remove any weld spatter present on the surfaces

of the adjusting cam nut and cross member.

.........................................................................................................

Remove spatter around the indicated portion of the

cross member (inside and outside).

so, exactly as i said, the front cross member which, is the front subframe.

NOT the cast arms....

Edited by Monster-Mat
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is in adobe acrobat so cant get pretty pics..............

Have all service bulletins for ALL lexus cars to make sure when we service them they are tickety boooooooooooooooooooooooo :D .

Yep i have a fair few...really handy arnt they..... :winky:

4. Check for weld spatter on the contact surface between the camber adjusting nut and the

cross member.

5. Remove any weld spatter present on the surfaces

of the adjusting cam nut and cross member.

.........................................................................................................

Remove spatter around the indicated portion of the

cross member (inside and outside).

so, exactly as i said, the front cross member which, is the front subframe.

NOT the cast arms....

I have to agree..... of the 100's set so far i have never seen weld spatter over the Camber adjuster cams or the control arms.

Cross member 'YES' I've got cuts ( ----------------------- ) that big from them :shifty:

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May I just say that I am not displeased with the handling of the car as such, just that compared to my last two, A Peugeot 206 GTI and a Focus Zetec, the front end does not have that "dig in feel" when turning into sharp slow corners. As a new owner of a rear wheel drive car, I am still getting to grips with the feel and weight shift differences when accelerating,braking and cornering etc.

Dr Bones, sorry for being thick, what do you mean by habitual information. is it how and where I drive or the current set up. Guessing these options from reading your previous posts.

I thank you for your offer of writing me a set-up, but I only trust you from reading the forum, and I'm not sure how a third party would react to be told that the information they have is wrong.

Hardest job is actually finding someone who has an opinion right or wrong, most places seem to go by the "computer says no" policy. Hence your reputation for taking time to actually understand and evolve the setting to suit the driver and car.

'Thick nothing'..... i apologize in assuming you would understand my terminology.

Habitual is a 'funneling method' i use to categorize you and your driving areas... sort of like Snooker, you have a desired area for the ball and target that area..... a little maths and it should land as expected.

Most of my work is remote.... i never even see the car, UK/World so this procedure catagorizes.....

If you need help let me know... i dont bite..... i do dribble though.... :duh: and you will need to Donate to the 'save the cat fund' :huh: ...... long story!........and foot.. :D ........ someone stop me!...... He's back!

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is in adobe acrobat so cant get pretty pics..............

Have all service bulletins for ALL lexus cars to make sure when we service them they are tickety boooooooooooooooooooooooo :D .

Yep i have a fair few...really handy arnt they..... :winky:

4. Check for weld spatter on the contact surface between the camber adjusting nut and the

cross member.

5. Remove any weld spatter present on the surfaces

of the adjusting cam nut and cross member.

.........................................................................................................

Remove spatter around the indicated portion of the

cross member (inside and outside).

so, exactly as i said, the front cross member which, is the front subframe.

NOT the cast arms....

could not remember exactly what or where just the term weld splatter :D anyway will be sending the doc to Tony

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is in adobe acrobat so cant get pretty pics..............

Have all service bulletins for ALL lexus cars to make sure when we service them they are tickety boooooooooooooooooooooooo :D .

Yep i have a fair few...really handy arnt they..... :winky:

4. Check for weld spatter on the contact surface between the camber adjusting nut and the

cross member.

5. Remove any weld spatter present on the surfaces

of the adjusting cam nut and cross member.

.........................................................................................................

Remove spatter around the indicated portion of the

cross member (inside and outside).

so, exactly as i said, the front cross member which, is the front subframe.

NOT the cast arms....

could not remember exactly what or where just the term weld splatter :D anyway will be sending the doc to Tony

Thank You!..... true LOC collaboration.... any information that over-laps our profession in a constructive format is valuable........... ( That was a long sentance?) i'm quite proud of that!... :D

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