It Gets Worse.....

[IanF]

I've just spent a frantic couple of days on the phone to VOSA, trying jump through their hoops to get my Altezza registered without the correct paperwork from Japan. The stumbling blocks were eveidence that the brakes, seatbelts and steering complied with EU laws.

I thought I was getting somewhere - they told me that I could get an engineers report comparing my car with a UK registered equivalent (at enormous cost, but at least it would et me registered).

However when I looked at the test protocols, even though the tests are on the brakes, seat belts and steering, they want everything to be comparable - including the engine. This means my 4 cylinder RS200 can't be compared to a 6 clylinder UK spec IS200 - and I'm sunk .

So I've got a lovely RS200 Qualitat sat in my garage, with absolutely no way to get it registered in the UK. The only suggestion VOSA make is they will accept a letter from Toyota confirming that the car complies with EU law - but as it was built for the Japanese market, I don't think there is a snowballs chance of that happening.

These stupid laws don't apply in Ireland - so if anybody in Ireland wants a lovely year 2000 RS200 Qualitat with 34K miles on the clock, send me a PM - I'll do a very good deal for you! :)

Ian

[MacRS200]

Bad news mate.

Can you not compare with another Tezza though.

[IanF]

Bad news mate.

Can you not compare with another Tezza though.

No - VOSA say they will only accept a comparison against a car that has been approved for UK sale.

[Mr Singh]

that really sucks mate.

so the fact its a qualitat model has caused all this grief? hell i would have just let it go through as normal RS200 if thats all it was!

altezzascott has bought in few of these, not sure what way he got round it

[IanF]

that really sucks mate.

so the fact its a qualitat model has caused all this grief? hell i would have just let it go through as normal RS200 if thats all it was!

altezzascott has bought in few of these, not sure what way he got round it

This is the same car that Altezzascot inported for me 2 years ago.

The problem isn't that it's a Qualitat (it counts as a regular RS200 on the documents) - the problem is Scott's incompetence in buying a car without checking the paperwork . Because the paperwork's not complete, VOSA wont accept it.

Now the car has left Japan, there's no way to get the correct details.

Ian

[Mr Singh]

Thats shoddy of him. To be frank i lost a whole heap of respect for him of late and i'm prepared to say that on an open domain!

Whats required to have completed paper work? surely if the car is exported to IRL it would be okay to bring it back to UK Shores?

I'm sad that its come to this mate :(

[Pip]

Mate that is terrible news. Its a nice looking car too.

What has scot said when you have approached him regarding this? Surely he should take some responsibility for his mistake?

He is still selling blu tack body kits and plastic cars on eBay though.

Have you received the discs yet Ian?

[IanF]

When first sold in Japan, every car is issued with a classification and model number, verifying that it complies with Japanese safety laws. The numbers are issued by the Japanese version of the DVLA.

As I understand it, every 3 years cars in Japan are inspected (similar to an MOT), and if they are found to be modified, the classification numbers are withdrawn (indicating they are no longer factory standard). If the car stays in Japan, this doesn't represent a problem.

However if the car is exported, the deregistration document doesn't include the classification numbers.

VOSA have a list of "pre-approved" classification numbers - as long as the paperwork shows this number, there is no problem. If the car has had this number removed, they will not accept that the car complied with Jap law, and therefore will not accept that it complies with UK law. They insist an alternative proof - either a comparison report against a UK equivalent car (which in this case doesn't exist) or a letter from Toyota (which I aint gonna get)

I've since found out that any decent importer knows to check these numbers are present before buying a car at auction - once the numbers are removed, there is no way to get them re-instated.

So basically I have been left in this situation by the incompetence of Altezzascot. Scott accepts no responsibility - he's disapeared off the face of the earth - doesn't answer phone calls or reply to emails. He's a member of the importers trade association BIMTA - even their committe haven't been able to get anything out of him.

[Pip]

Pay him a visit Ian.

As stated he still trades sh!te on eBay.

[Mr Singh]

I used to have Scott on MSN, he bugged him few times most of the time trying to sell crap to me or offer me a 'deal'

I wouldn't have let him gotten away with it that easy, the fact he couldnt/wouldnt help you is just pure clarification of his incompetiance to run a business.

Again sorry to hear its come to this :(

[IanF]

The trouble is that although Scott is 100% morally responsible, I don't think he is legally responsible.

At the end of the day, he hasn't sold the car to me – it was bought from Japan in my name, he only acted as an agent to identify the car and advise on bringing it back to the UK.

So although he has been completely incompetent and landed me in loads of bother, his legal responsibility is only that his service as an agent was inadequate, and any refund would only extend to his fee.

If he refuses to shoulder any blame, I'm not sure that there is anything I can do other than make sure as many people as possible know about it, and his business suffers as a consequence.

Maybe I should take some legal advice.

Ian

[Mr Singh]

Well that changes things somewhat.

Was his part of the transaction of the car explicitly put in writing before you took on his services? if so he has legal obligation against you rather than you on him.

Would sending the car back to Japan to get papers sorted then ship back again sort it? (i'm just waffling now)

[MacRS200]

Hi Ian

Thought the car you had trouble with was the Scott one.

If I were you I would take legal advice.

If I got this right. You employed an agent to advise on the purchase of a car for import to the UK. He selected a car as being suitable and based on his recommendations you bought it. Turns out that the car he advised you to buy is not what you paid him to find for you.

I would have said that as you paid him, I assume that can prove that. He would be liable for consequential losses connected with his bad advice.

[Mr Morse]

I would imagine that the value you paid far exceeds the £5,000 limit to take legal action through the small claims court. Taking the case to the civil courts though a solicitor will cost you an arm and a leg as you're probably aware and as you also say, he acted as your agent in importing the car and as such, unless there is anything specific in writing, you'll be hard pressed in proving negligence on his behalf.

I think you are going to have to bite the bullet on this one (sorry for you fella) but as has been previously suggested, Ireland looks like your best option.

[IanF]

Mr Morse - much as it's gonna hurt, I think you're right - I've got a choice between an expensive and difficult legal route, or trying to salvage as much as possible and moving on.

I have a contract with Scott, but it is explicitly to act as my agent to aid importing. There is nothing that specifically says he will get me a particular car on the road for a particular price by a particular date.

Mr Singh - No, even if the car goes back to Japan, I can never get the classifciation numbers back. It could go back to Japan for resale, but Ireland will be more cost effective. Once registered in Ireland, it's still not possible to bring it back to the UK, so it would have to stay there.

Incidentally for anybody in Ireland - there is absolutely nothing wrong with the car itself - it's exactly what I wanted. The only problem is the paperwork doesn't display 2 numbers that are meaningless outside Japan, but the UK authorities insist on seeing before registering it.

Ian

[MacRS200]

If the contract only says to assist in importing and not to actually get a registerable vehicle into to UK, I think you are right.

Sorry tale indeed mate.

[IanF]

PS Just so nobody thinks I'm a victim of my own supidity for entering into such a deal :winky: - I checked out a few other importers before selecting Scott - this seems to be the standard deal when importing a specific car to order.

Also at the time Scott was very well respected on here, and I got a couple of refreneces that said he had done good work and was reliable. I also checked him out with the BIMTA trade association, who sad they had never had any complains about him (that's changed now!). It seemed sensible that if I wanted an Altezza, to use a specalist Altezza importer, recommended by the owners club.

[Robin H]

Ian

I'm so sorry to here of the problems that you've had with the car

I hope you can get it to Ireland and sold quickly without losing out on to much £

I feel for you, as I was looking at getting a tezza imported by Scott over a year ago but as the model report was out for the MT I didn't and looked for 1 in the UK

hope you get it sorted

[Drummerboy]

Ian,

You have PM

DB

[star a]

mr singh's suggestion of having it registered in ireland then importing it from there sounds good, is it possible or feasable.

[MacRS200]

PS Just so nobody thinks I'm a victim of my own supidity for entering into such a deal - I checked out a few other importers before selecting Scott - this seems to be the standard deal when importing a specific car to order.

Didn't think that for a minute mate. You made a decision based on the best information available. And TBH I think Scott was as surprised as you with the ESVA but then he should have known. Or at least checked that a model report was available for the car he sourcing.

mr singh's suggestion of having it registered in ireland then importing it from there sounds good, is it possible or feasable.

Not that simple as it is still classed as an import apparently and you would need ESVA.

[Pip]

Get it sold in Ireland mate and just cut your losses.

Glad i bought an IS, phew!

[Monster-Mat]

can you not get the car inspected as a one off, a kit car......a special build

[IanF]

can you not get the car inspected as a one off, a kit car......a special build

Sadly not - there is an "official" definition of a kit car or one off, specifically designed to prevent it being used as a loophole.

Ian

[Monster-Mat]

you have PM