Uprated Injectors

[Monster-Mat]

erm what is the point of this post, Neil has already said where he got his car done, therefore who dynoed it and what figure he got.

Neil has said he is happy

Where did he say who dyno'd it ? Sorry, I must have missed that bit.

ok, so now you've gone and edited your previous posting to add the word "therefore", and edited my quoted copy of your posting, which makes my posting make slightly less sense. Not sure why you felt it necessary to do that.

You added the word "therefore", previously your post read :

erm what is the point of this post, Neil has already said where he got his car done, who dynoed it and what figure he got.

Neil has said he is happy

I still don't agree, though, that just because TDi did the work, that necessarily means that's where the dyno was done.

you asked the question while i was editing.....so i edited my reply in your post when the post came back up.....no conspiracy so dont feel you have managed to make it to the moral high ground

do you actually know anything about TDI or are you jumping on the same bandwaggon. TDI have a very very good Dyno

the only people who are entitled to comment on TDI are those that have had work done by them, those that have heard, or seen stuff typed are only getting partial storys. biased storys or heated thoughts...are not

the only people to listen too are those that know the facts, those people are the owners of the cars.

if these people have had a rough time, then it is down to them and TDI to sort them out....not people commenting on something they know little about

Neil has said he is happy with his car.that, in this topic, is the most important thing

he has also stated he is happy with TDI, that, is also the most important thing in this topic.

[Steviewevie]

do you actually know anything about TDI or are you jumping on the same bandwaggon. TDI have a very very good Dyno

the only people who are entitled to comment on TDI are those that have had work done by them, those that have heard, or seen stuff typed are only getting partial storys.

Neil has said he is happy with his car.

I'm asking a perfectly good question. I never said there was anything wrong with TDi's dyno. But why do some other LOC members seem to have been told certain dyno figures by TDi and when they checked elsewhere they seem to have got much less bhp ? Weren't some of these other LOC members reasonably happy with certain aspects of their cars until they saw what they were really producing and what problems there were with them ?

Is it not in the interest of LOC members to ask reasonable questions ?

Sorry, I hadn't realised that reasonable questions weren't allowed. You made a few comments about the proposed 3S-GE conversion to be done by ToyotaGT. Have you had any work done by ToyotaGT ?

[Monster-Mat]

do you actually know anything about TDI or are you jumping on the same bandwaggon. TDI have a very very good Dyno

the only people who are entitled to comment on TDI are those that have had work done by them, those that have heard, or seen stuff typed are only getting partial storys.

Neil has said he is happy with his car.

I'm asking a perfectly good question. I never said there was anything wrong with TDi's dyno. But why do some other LOC members seem to have been told certain dyno figures by TDi and when they checked elsewhere they seem to have got much less bhp ? Weren't some of these other LOC members reasonably happy with certain aspects of their cars until they saw what they were really producing and what problems there were with them ?

Is it not in the interest of LOC members to ask reasonable questions ?

Sorry, I hadn't realised that reasonable questions weren't allowed. You made a few comments about the proposed 3S-GE conversion to be done by ToyotaGT. Have you had any work done by ToyotaGT ?

no ive not had any work done by Toyota GT however if you bother look at my comments acuratly , non were about toyota Gt or there abilities but about the difficulty involved with doing the 3sgte swap into the is200 (as i had planned to do this very swap in 2005 into the blue lex)

considering that me and steve have been running this club from ...well the day we started it, and pretty much every advancement in the is200 tuning has been documented on these forums...me having the first official UK is200 supercharged and done by TTE the first 2jz-gte swap.....and having stripped down around 6 is200s in 8 years, built 3 for Comps and events and the like. i would know just a little bit of what im talking about, Toyota GT say there are 2 other is200s in this country with 3sgte....i said i dont think so, if there was, someone on this forum would know about it.

Facts that i have spent years uncovering,...by actually doing stuff to the is200 or attempting to do it, and physically proving the difficulties involved, i dont talk ****, i talk fact, and if im wrong im always the first to admit it.....

i dont regurgitate crap that others have said, i make my own opinions, i reserch my own answeres i find out the facts

regards the TDI dyno, and the fact some members have had different readings, ..no 2 dynos are the same.

regarding dynos used i be a little bit more convinced of TDI dyno figures over the more popular older design ones in this country that some places have.

however, if what people are saying is tdi have doctored the results thats a different matter.

id find it odd that tdi with its ...£100,000 dyno out sourcing to another company....dont you

i dont doubt that TDI have made mistakes, but that is for ther cars owners and TDI to resolve, its not for people to regurgitate on forums over and over again

[sparkystav]

Mat; you could have put an edit explaination at the bottom of Stevies thread when you changed it?!

And why can't people give their own opinions on subjects people post about? surely thats one of the aims of this Forum?

I'm asking a perfectly good question. I never said there was anything wrong with TDi's dyno. But why do some other LOC members seem to have been told certain dyno figures by TDi and when they checked elsewhere they seem to have got much less bhp ? Weren't some of these other LOC members reasonably happy with certain aspects of their cars until they saw what they were really producing and what problems there were with them ?

Is it not in the interest of LOC members to ask reasonable questions ?

Sorry, I hadn't realised that reasonable questions weren't allowed. You made a few comments about the proposed 3S-GE conversion to be done by ToyotaGT. Have you had any work done by ToyotaGT ?

Personally i feel thats a good question Stevie.

Two Dynos to compare the readings too, independant of each other.

I've personally used TDi's dyno (on the free dyno day, not as a customer) and then had another dyno 200+ miles away at an independant place and they came out the same.

BUT both Dave and Yemgi have PERSONALLY experienced that maybe TDi have adjusted figures on their dyno to make their customers results look higher. After all any computer is only as good as its user?

[Monster-Mat]

Mat; you could have put an edit explaination at the bottom of Stevies thread when you changed it?!

i had already edited my post first, then saw he had picked up on it...i post proof read then edit...i type fast...yes maybe i could, he replied faster than i had time to do anything else

And why can't people give their own opinions? have you spent to long in Germany and theit politics 60years ago?

bang out of order!....yes people can have an opinion, his opinion is slating a company Dyno,.....i am pointing out some opinions are based on bias, and not facts.

regards your germany comment, what exactly do you mean.....ive only been in germany since june!!

Personally i feel thats a good question Stevie.

Two Dynos to compare the readings too, independant of each other.

both Dave and Yemgi has PERSONALLY experienced that.

that was not his question...his insinuation was that tdi out sourced there dyno work, and or that TDI dyno is flawed

a dyno is only as good as the operator, a tuning company is only as good as its technicians

take from that what you will

[sparkystav]

He never insinuated that they outsourced the dyno work, or that their dyno is inaccurate. He WAS insinuating that they made up the results or tweaked them to make them look better.

But i'll leave that to Stevie to confirm.

[Steviewevie]

He never insinuated that they outsourced the dyno work, or that their dyno is inaccurate. He WAS insinuating that they made up the results or tweaked them to make them look better.

But i'll leave that to Stevie to confirm.

Thank you Stav, that was exactly the question I was raising. I didn't think TDi outsourced their dyno work, as has been said that wouldn't make sense.

However, as Stav said, two LOC members personally have had cause to question the dyno information they were given by TDi.

How am I "slating" TDi's dyno Mat ? I'm just presenting some real-life examples as quoted by other members of this forum. I'm not going by what someone down the pub heard from his brother's best mate's cousin's friend, I'm talking about posts that I've recently read on these forums from LOC members who have personally questioned the bhp figures that they were given by TDi.

I also never said that TDi *did* make up/deliberately alter the dyno stuff for Fever's car. I was simply asking where he got it done and whether he personally saw the results or it was just that they did a dyno run and, say, someone verbally told him the figures ?

Surely given the experiences that some members have had with TDi, these are totally reasonable questions to be asking ? Is it not a potential help to other members of LOC to be asking these questions, so that they can benefit ?

If we all only commented on the work we'd done on our own cars then I think the club would be distinctly poorer as a result.

[Monster-Mat]

No, the point is this is Fevers topic, and as ive said twice he is happy with his car so why bring up other peoples issues with TDI

[Steviewevie]

No, the point is this is Fevers topic, and as ive said twice he is happy with his car so why bring up other peoples issues with TDI

Because other peoples' experiences are relevant ?

Was it wrong of me to ask him if his fuel gauge was working, given that others have had a lot of problems with this ?

Someone asked earlier if his engine management light was still working (e.g. since Dave's one got removed by TDi), I don't think he's answered that at present, is that not a reasonable question too given other members' experiences ?

I don't see why one person's experience should be seen in some sort of standalone bubble, as you seem to be suggesting. If we didn't bring in other relevant experiences into other discussions then we'd have very little to discuss here, wouldn't we ?

If someone, should, heaven forbid - say they had a bad experience at WIM, then would it not be relevant if other members said what good experiences they'd had and question the poster to see exactly what had happened in case it was he that had misunderstood things ? You're surely not serious that other members' experiences at a garage are not relevant to those experienced by someone else ?

I've already said that I'm happy that Fever is happy.

*edited for spelling*

[Monster-Mat]

yes...your right, your comments regarding TDI are totally relevant to Fevers topic, just like it was relevant for Gord to bring up a thread years after it was made in the hope that there was something to dig up

rather than seeing me as the boogey man, consider the person whos topic this is.......Fever, he has already made it clear he is not happy about the direction the topic was going in post 9

Was it wrong of me to ask him if his fuel gauge was working, given that others have had a lot of problems with this ?

Someone asked earlier if his engine management light was still working (e.g. since Dave's one got removed by TDi), I don't think he's answered that at present, is that not a reasonable question too given other members' experiences ?

I don't see why one person's experience should be seen in some sort of standalone bubble, as you seem to be suggesting. If we didn't bring in other relevant experiences into other discussions then we'd have very little to discuss here, wouldn't we ?

if Fever wasnt happy about any aspect of his conversion im sure he would have said it.

[Steviewevie]

Mat, let's say you were sold an endowment policy several years ago by a financial adviser and were totally happy with it. Then two years later some other customers of the same financial adviser found they were mis-sold the same product, and various promises about it (e.g. its returns/payout/projections) turned out to be untrue. Would you not want to know anything about it because it was two years old and you were happy ?

[Monster-Mat]

yes your right

[Steviewevie]

rather than seeing me as the boogey man, consider the person whos topic this is

if Fever wasnt happy about any aspect of his conversion im sure he would have said it.

Aargh, more post editing (without explanation), couldn't you have put that in a new post ?! By you adding it in to your original posting, it makes it looks like I have ignored that particular point of yours.

I am actually trying to help Fever and fellow LOC members here, believe it or not. Maybe in a misguided fashion, who knows, but I'm getting the impression here that you think that *I* am the boogey man trying to stir up trouble.

Edit - and I see that you've edited your posting *again* even after your previous edit that I just referred to, to now include a quote of a previous post of mine, so again you make it look like I'm not responding to that bit :duh:

[Monster-Mat]

yes i edited my reply to you way before you even replied, i must make sure to make stevie happy in future

get of your high horse!

[Fever]

Ok listen guys, i'm not defending TDi for any mess ups they may have made on other peoples cars! I speak as I find things and for now I'm happy with the work that was done on my car by them! Back then I had engine mods in place that had never been tried or seen on an IS200 before...sure there were problems in the beginning and I did get annoyed, but they were always resolved for me when I got back in contact with TDi! There were certain things that I would have done differently looking back, but at the same time I'm also pleased with what was achieved.

Regarding the dyno, it was done at TDi when the mods were first put in place....over 2 years ago now...I saw the dyno graph and I had a copy till my briefcase where it was kept was stolen! TDi have one of the best dyno's in the country and a very good friend of mine took his Supra, that he has been building for some years, there a few weeks back, the results were about 10bhp out from the readings he's had at other places, TDi's actually being a slightly lower reading. He took his mapper with him and they were both very impressed! Take from that what you will.

I am however planning to get my car re-dyno'd soon at another place, so I will for sure let you all know the outcome of that!

I guess that you have to look at it in this way...TDi have gotten to a very high status in the car modifying business and achieved things that many have not! You don't get to that level of success by doing things wrong! The work on Mat's white IS transplanting the 2JZ was awesome and some of the Supras that they have built are simply mind blowing! They do, believe it or not, have a good reputation outside of LOC for building safe, quick cars! In my experience anyone sitting in that kind of position and charging a lot for their work is going to come under fire from their competition and people that want to see them fall! Its the nature of business!

British Airways is one of the safest airlines in the world, but they stacked a plane on the runway at Heathrow some months back....does that mean all their planes are unsafe and I should stop flying with them? In my eyes, make informed decisions...not ones based on hearsay!

While we are at it, could a mod clean this thread up a bit for me please, its gone waaaaaay off topic!

[Rob]

They do, believe it or not, have a good reputation outside of LOC for building safe, quick cars!

British Airways is one of the safest airlines in the world, but they stacked a plane on the runway at Heathrow some months back....does that mean all their planes are unsafe and I should stop flying with them?

they dont have a good reputation on quite a few forums and mkiv forums especially.

you cant compare BA and the shi!e work from tdi as the BA incident is a one off and 99% a design issue but if it was a pure maintenance fault then you could make the comparison. Oh many of u know i am an aircraft engineer but i wont fly BA - take from that what u will.....

[Fever]

They do, believe it or not, have a good reputation outside of LOC for building safe, quick cars!

British Airways is one of the safest airlines in the world, but they stacked a plane on the runway at Heathrow some months back....does that mean all their planes are unsafe and I should stop flying with them?

they dont have a good reputation on quite a few forums and mkiv forums especially.

you cant compare BA and the shi!e work from tdi as the BA incident is a one off and 99% a design issue but if it was a pure maintenance fault then you could make the comparison. Oh many of u know i am an aircraft engineer but i wont fly BA - take from that what u will.....

You must speak to different people to me then Rob! Anyway, like I said I personally have no issues, so why should I jump on the band wagon to slate them....I know that you have long standing issues with TDi anyway, for what ever reason, so can we let it drop!

Oh and by the way...it wasn't a design issue, it was a pilot issue! ;) Oh and I work in avionics, flight operations and air to ground (ACARS) VHF and Satcom datalinks...I have access to a lot of information.... ;) and I'll still fly BA....take from that what you will... :P

[sparkystav]

Thanks for the info Neil about the Dyno. and like i said before it was removed i've no reason to doubt the dyno readings as i've had them compared to other dynos as well.

just the operators, but again were going off topic.

Right i'm off to figure out how i can make my car quicker now to catch up with you lol

Stav

[Fever]

Right i'm off to figure out how i can make my car quicker now to catch up with you lol

Stav

Good man!

[Rob]

They do, believe it or not, have a good reputation outside of LOC for building safe, quick cars!

British Airways is one of the safest airlines in the world, but they stacked a plane on the runway at Heathrow some months back....does that mean all their planes are unsafe and I should stop flying with them?

they dont have a good reputation on quite a few forums and mkiv forums especially.

you cant compare BA and the shi!e work from tdi as the BA incident is a one off and 99% a design issue but if it was a pure maintenance fault then you could make the comparison. Oh many of u know i am an aircraft engineer but i wont fly BA - take from that what u will.....

You must speak to different people to me then Rob! Anyway, like I said I personally have no issues, so why should I jump on the band wagon to slate them....I know that you have long standing issues with TDi anyway, for what ever reason, so can we let it drop!

Oh and by the way...it wasn't a design issue, it was a pilot issue! ;) Oh and I work in avionics, flight operations and air to ground (ACARS) VHF and Satcom datalinks...I have access to a lot of information.... ;) and I'll still fly BA....take from that what you will... :P

i know but.... no i dont speak to anybody i read the reports of which only interim reports have been published and no mention of pilot error so dont know who told u it was PE, whoever it was they need to have a read of this http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resources/G...im%20Report.pdf

on the flying thing, sounds like you dont actually work hands on the AC but in the avionics repair shop or office installation for BA ? anyway back on topic:

My issue with tdi as u say has been long running because they came onto the boards and started telling people they needed this that and the next things and people were writing blank cheques, yes it is thier own stupidity for being sucked in by all the marketing hype and reccomendations from what is meant to be a good tuner but end of the day mark was out to make a quick £ and sold many unnecessary items to people who didnt have a clue.. and that it what i disliked.

I against my better judgement did speak to mark once to see i they had bushes fo the rear control arms and immediatly he tried to sell me adjustable control arms at over £400 instead of the specific item i asked for - some things never change.

so yes we can drop it :shutit:

[Fever]

i know but.... no i dont speak to anybody i read the reports of which only interim reports have been published and no mention of pilot error so dont know who told u it was PE, whoever it was they need to have a read of this http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resources/G...im%20Report.pdf

on the flying thing, sounds like you dont actually work hands on the AC but in the avionics repair shop or office installation for BA ? anyway back on topic:

No I said that I work in avionics, flight operations and air to ground (ACARS) VHF and Satcom datalinks services....oh and I've spent the past 9 years working "hands on" with different aircraft for different airlines all over the world! ;) Plus nobody has told me it was pilot error....the people you speak to was reference to the comment you made about TDi.

Anyway, if you know about ACARS then you will also know about things like engine trend monitoring and fault reporting systems. You will also know that during a flight an aircraft sends downlink messages in their thousands based on everything that occurs on the aircraft, from a block toilet, a faulty VDU, to a heavy landing, to fueling issues and even actions and errors made by a pilot during a flight...the messages also get more informative during take off and landing and it does all this without any human intervention! Wouldn't it be cool if you had full access to all this information eh!

Well anyway, thats probably enough of all that before this thread goes off topic again!

[aido]

You will also know that during a flight an aircraft sends downlink messages in their thousands based on a block toilet

Sorry to have a sneaky OT but they must get a shedload of data on some of the flights I've been on (not me though, I don't like doing any of that in planes - I'm too big for em LOL) :D

Neil would be good to see how your car is looking now mate, still remember first time I ever went to a LOC meet many years ago at Gaydon and we could hear your exhaust going for ages as you were leaving - was it the Apexi?! Must sound really nice now!

[Fever]

Neil would be good to see how your car is looking now mate, still remember first time I ever went to a LOC meet many years ago at Gaydon and we could hear your exhaust going for ages as you were leaving - was it the Apexi?! Must sound really nice now!

Yeah it was an Apexi mate, man that was a few years back too...loved that exhaust, but unfortunately I blew the baffles out of it :D so I opted for a HKS Silent Hi Power, which sounds lovely with the TDi manifold...very subtle but lights up a bit when you floor it! I like less noise these days...getting old! :P

[marcus]

Fever,

can i ask what mods you have got? as i wasnt around back then

Stav

Hi Stav,

Yeah no worries, engine mods to date are...

TTE Supercharger

TDi uprated Intercooler

TDi maifold

CamCon

Uprated Injectors

HKS FCON VPro

HKS HiPower Silent back box

Hi mate long time no see, i have only been back on LOC for about 2 months now,:)

i dont know how much the bits cost.....so please put me right

TTE SC ....cost about 2K

TDI intercooler about 400 i think

TDI manifold about 700 i think

camcon about 200 if not more

Up injectors about 600 i think

HKS Fcon Vpro about 1200 i think

HKS HSBB about 300 i think

please put me right on the prices, if im over or under

thats 5.4K with out the cost for them to do the work, so you are happy paying 5.4K + there 70 to 80 an hour to fit, for only 90 BHP ;)

Just like to say this, its not down to me or any one els what you do with your cash, i myself just think TDI ask way over the top for items they sell, and work they do, and like rob has said......when TDI 1st came on LOC all they could see was £££ as no one on this site knew any better, and alot had got work done by them thinking at the time it was the right thing to do.

i would like to point out im not on any ones side but my own, i took my IS to have some work done once to someone and when the work was done they bent me over for more cash than they said it would cost..... and this is why im doing all the work on my IS now + so if it f**s up when its put back on the road i only have myself to kick, , yea it has taken me 2 years from when i started it, but i have had alot going on in them 2 years , been out of work for 9 months my Bro was in ICU for 6 months and so on.

But like i said as long as you are happy......doing 5.4K for 90 BHP :D but if i had taken my IS somewhere to get alll that work doen and only come back with 90 BHP i dont think i would be happy, but then thats me, i want alot for my £££

[chrisis200]

Fever,

can i ask what mods you have got? as i wasnt around back then

Stav

Hi Stav,

Yeah no worries, engine mods to date are...

TTE Supercharger

TDi uprated Intercooler

TDi maifold

CamCon

Uprated Injectors

HKS FCON VPro

HKS HiPower Silent back box

But like i said as long as you are happy......doing 5.4K for 90 BHP :D but if i had taken my IS somewhere to get alll that work doen and only come back with 90 BHP i dont think i would be happy, but then thats me, i want alot for my £££

Oh dear that is expensive for not alot, this is what worried me about spending to much on my own car. The power issues with the IS, but Fever is now looking to get a power car so I'm sure he'll see the difference soon enough and put those pennys to good use.. :)