Sign in to follow this  
Scarlet Pimpernell

Used Values Of The New Is

Recommended Posts

Guys - I've just had the whits scared out of me...

I've checked used prices on What car? (which normally from my experience is the best guide available all of my last 4 cars were valued using that before I went to a dealer and it was close....)

Whilst they don't have 220d listed, the IS250SE appears not to fair too well at all:

Comparison - IS250SE list £25400, 2005/55/10k, Dealer £20695 and Trade £18445

Compared to - BMW325SE list £25575, 2005/55/10k, Dealer £22795 and Trade £20695

So what you would get trade for a BMW is what you should pay a dealer for a used IS250SE...and I can hear al of you saying that the lex is loaded to the gunnels with kit, which is true, but in the long run it may not be such a good investment...? any views?

Parkers as usual "over values" by a £couple of hundred.

Anyone got access to Glass's?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is not a good way of starting my morning, especially when i'm going to take delivery of an IS end of this month.

My opinion on this is that Lexus Owners Club should be promoting the good stuff, not the downsides. Also I find it hard to compare BMW and Lexus or other competitiors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is not a good way of starting my morning, especially when i'm going to take delivery of an IS end of this month.

My opinion on this is that Lexus Owners Club should be promoting the good stuff, not the downsides. Also I find it hard to compare BMW and Lexus or other competitiors.

This is the Lexus owners club - not a Lexus fan club.

Why is it hard to compare the cars ? I test drove all the usual suspects, and I do not see why it is harder to do comparisons of this situation, than comparing any other major purchase.

Jamboo, this is bad news, especially as the salesman specifically told me that the IS would hold its value better than the 3 series I was gonna buy - perhaps I have a case for misrepresentation of facts :excl:

I always knew that a new car would hurt my pocket, and had hoped that I would be keeping the Lexus for many many years, so did not worry too much. I think it reinforces my feelings that I will NEVER buy brand new again....just exactly what are the reasons for doing so ???

PS what happened to the Lakes trip matey?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ouch, that is harsh. Especially as the IS didn't show it's face until November and a similar 325 (that I sold to get the IS250) would be for a September car. Admitedly they do have the same mileage. I wonder if it has anything to do with a November car being considered a high mileage example with 10k on the clock??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see where the statement to not buy new comes into this.

However, if you are like me, you want to know exactly the history of the car. If you have spotted a one year old example on a dealer forecourt, why is it there with such a short life? Did the last owner have problems? is it accident damaged? Has it been treated roughly?

I think buying new is buying peace of mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My opinion on this is that Lexus Owners Club should be promoting the good stuff, not the downsides.

Not sure what you mean by this, any club that did not let you know of any issues or problems would be a waste of space imho and would be run purely by sales and marketing people who would have you believe their nonsense!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If those depreciation figures are correct i.e. £392 per month over twelve months you could save nearly £100 per month by leasing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can see where the statement to not buy new comes into this.

However, if you are like me, you want to know exactly the history of the car. If you have spotted a one year old example on a dealer forecourt, why is it there with such a short life? Did the last owner have problems? is it accident damaged? Has it been treated roughly?

I think buying new is buying peace of mind.

...which is exactly why we've been buying a new car for some years now....

But, every car you buy, you have to sell on too...and I was hoping that this one might give me more back....how wrong was I...

I also appreciate that each BMW or Merc (or even Audi) needs a good £3k to bring it in line with the IS250SE in terms of kit, and you only ever get 20% back tops, so it's swings and roundabouts, but a new Beemer might have been a betterinvestment anyway long term...and I suppose makes the new IS fantastic as nearly new/1 year old investment.

@Eunos800 - when I bought my Audi, I said "....never will I buy new again..." and I still did :blush:

I know for a fact that I won't ever again. I'd rather spend the extra abroad...BTW - the lakes happens next week now...got too much work on... :winky:

PS - I get a car allowance so I suppose I'm strictly speaking not paying for it all me self...but even still...and I use the term "investment" loosely, 'cos not many cars are...unless it's an E Type in minto condition...

Anyone got access to a latest copy of Glass's guide (or the "black book") which traders use?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My opinion on this is that Lexus Owners Club should be promoting the good stuff, not the downsides.

Not sure what you mean by this, any club that did not let you know of any issues or problems would be a waste of space imho and would be run purely by sales and marketing people who would have you believe their nonsense!

Again this is my opinion, however yes you are correct on the above statement which helps existing and potential buyers on issues that maybe useful to them prior to purchase etc.

This is not a good way of starting my morning, especially when i'm going to take delivery of an IS end of this month.

My opinion on this is that Lexus Owners Club should be promoting the good stuff, not the downsides. Also I find it hard to compare BMW and Lexus or other competitiors.

This is the Lexus owners club - not a Lexus fan club.

Why is it hard to compare the cars ? I test drove all the usual suspects, and I do not see why it is harder to do comparisons of this situation, than comparing any other major purchase.

Jamboo, this is bad news, especially as the salesman specifically told me that the IS would hold its value better than the 3 series I was gonna buy - perhaps I have a case for misrepresentation of facts :excl:

I always knew that a new car would hurt my pocket, and had hoped that I would be keeping the Lexus for many many years, so did not worry too much. I think it reinforces my feelings that I will NEVER buy brand new again....just exactly what are the reasons for doing so ???

PS what happened to the Lakes trip matey?

I am aware that this is a Lexus owners club and not a fan club. However I'm confused on exactly what you are trying to point out on that statement. Maybe you’re trying to identify that I am not a Lexus owner? If so, I can correct you on that and yes I am.

So the salesmen lied to you about

-no discount available for the car

-the value will hold better than a 3series BMW?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sorry to say this but I think you're all getting excited over absolutely nothing :o

I've never trusted whatcar for anything, and this one is just taking the p**s - yep it says what jamboo has said at the top, but then if you use their depreciation guide, the BMW 325 starts with a higher new price, then dips much sharper than the IS250 over the first year, and its value then remains below that of the IS for further years as below:

177992606.jpg

Now I have no idea what the truth is, but a site that contradicts itself is something that I'd never use for any kind of advice........

From looking at the market, I'd probably agree that cars without MM are losing value quite badly (not sure why they're so undesirable, BMWs without satnav seem to do ok, maybe its just the appearance of the dash), but the cars with MM are holding their value remarkably well. I've been quite surprised by the SE-Ls which are definitely holding value much better than I expected for such a pricey car........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MM is what makes the IS250/220 its an excellent piece of kit and well worth the investment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now I have no idea what the truth is, but a site that contradicts itself is something that I'd never use for any kind of advice........

Absolutely Parthiban - hence I wanna see what Black Book or Glass's says...anyone????????

I swa that graph in a mag then saw Parkers which was close to the What Car? web site...which is when I put the post up...

I think the IS is having a very luke warm reception here...I dunno why. The IS250SE Auto with MM is the perfect luxury car

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MM is what makes the IS250/220 its an excellent piece of kit and well worth the investment.

Apart from the fact that it isn't strictly an investment which is equally applicable to the rest of the car, but that isn't why we bought the second generation IS, is it?

I paid almost £33K for my car under the impression that it would hold it's value fairly well in comparison to other makes, and I still think that's true.

I ordered it in March 2005 because I had faith in the Lexus/Toyota brand after my experiences with the first generation IS (one of which I still have).

If I'd wanted a Beemer or a Merc I'd have bought one instead of the IS250. The possibility that the Lexus might depreciate ever so slightly more or less than anything similar didn't enter into the equation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys

Lets be realistic about this. How many non Lexus dealers (Merc/BMW/Audi) have you seen with an IS250 or an IS220 on the forecourt. Answer. Probably None.

And how many Lexus delaers have Mercs/BMW?Audis on ALL OF THEM.

Lexus are'nt in the habbit of forcing the price down to follow the guide books in fact quite the opposite.

The guide books are written based on the market value of the cars, and Lexus want to hold that up as much as possible to prove the quality and longevity of the brand, and keep us buying a good product with a good residual value. If the residuals are terrible we simply wouldnt buy another Lexus.

Lexus residual values have been out performing the competition for years. Whats changed?.

Nothing, IMHO the new models have strenghtened the brand name. and should hold the value up even more.

Just had a look on the LEXUS UK approved pre-owned site at at the 250s SELs auto with MM seem to be very good around 28-30k now thats the price you would pay for a new car from Drive the Deal now, so used cars with 5-8k on the clock are selling for more the the actual Net price of a new car.

That looks like strong residual value to me.

If its the dealer buy back price you are looking at, then thats probably down to the dealers lining their pockets on the first round of replacements after 12 months.

I, for one would not part with my very hard earned cash for a car that i thought would sink like a stone after i left the forecourt.

Infinity.........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My opinion on this is that Lexus Owners Club should be promoting the good stuff, not the downsides.

Not sure what you mean by this, any club that did not let you know of any issues or problems would be a waste of space imho and would be run purely by sales and marketing people who would have you believe their nonsense!

Again this is my opinion, however yes you are correct on the above statement which helps existing and potential buyers on issues that maybe useful to them prior to purchase etc.

This is not a good way of starting my morning, especially when i'm going to take delivery of an IS end of this month.

My opinion on this is that Lexus Owners Club should be promoting the good stuff, not the downsides. Also I find it hard to compare BMW and Lexus or other competitiors.

This is the Lexus owners club - not a Lexus fan club.

Why is it hard to compare the cars ? I test drove all the usual suspects, and I do not see why it is harder to do comparisons of this situation, than comparing any other major purchase.

Jamboo, this is bad news, especially as the salesman specifically told me that the IS would hold its value better than the 3 series I was gonna buy - perhaps I have a case for misrepresentation of facts :excl:

I always knew that a new car would hurt my pocket, and had hoped that I would be keeping the Lexus for many many years, so did not worry too much. I think it reinforces my feelings that I will NEVER buy brand new again....just exactly what are the reasons for doing so ???

PS what happened to the Lakes trip matey?

I am aware that this is a Lexus owners club and not a fan club. However I'm confused on exactly what you are trying to point out on that statement. Maybe you’re trying to identify that I am not a Lexus owner? If so, I can correct you on that and yes I am.

So the salesmen lied to you about

-no discount available for the car

-the value will hold better than a 3series BMW?

I was not implying that at all..merely that this forum is for both good and bad comments, which maintains balance, and if all we ever did was rave about the good points it would be a fan club :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not bad Paul T, this will savee some people a few quid!!

Need to keep in mind that these are trade in values

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well if it makes you feel any better I am looking at trading in my wife's e class fully loaded 3.5 years old with 25 k on the clock Cost us 34k best trade in 14,250 for an unmarked car ...and I was told Mercs dont loose value quickly!!!

Alan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you want to see what real depreciation is check out the GS forum!! New GS 430s are losing > 17K in 9 months - ouch!! And you were worried about your IS :)

Vertical Depreciation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't know what all the fuss is about, it is a well known fact that as soon as you drive a new car out of the dealers it becomes a used car. The value will then fall by about 30-33%, so you drive 100 yards and a £30k car becomes a £21k car.

As for buying new for "peace of mind", I could buy a used GS300 in good condition, with a fairly high mileage for less than £9k. If it packed in I could dump it and still have lost less money than I would through buying a new IS250 that had no problems at all.

With the exception of the RX300 gearbox thread, the longest and most frequent threads on here are the ones about problems with the new IS, Aido's biggest problem with his Aristo is that he can't get the wiper arms up to change the blades :lol:

Anyway my 2p worth :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It really doesn't matter at the end of the day what they sell for on a forecourt - it's what any dealer will give you - which will be between Trade and Pex value...

This thread proves .... well not a lot really...but it's been good banter.

I think the bottom line is that yes a car is no Investment, but when you do eventually go to trade it in, you can forget the value of a forecourt car - you'll get the lowest of the low - as Alan's wife is getting for the Merc.

The other point about how many Lexi you see on a competitors forecourt - well the attitude of my Local BMW and MB dealer was that Lexus are just Toyota's and they steer clear of them..."not in their league" as one MB dealer in the midlands said to me....

He must be sniffing the gassy stuff.....

Anyway, the other point about Ex Demos on forecourts for more than "drivethedeal"...if you're a serious buyer, go and haggle away and you'll see the deal improve significantly.

Dealers are trying hard to make ends meet. No matter the marque. And lets face it - Lexus have some of the smartest and sw4ankiest showrooms around - someones gotta pay for it....all I would say is that I wouldn't pay anything above the "new List" price minus VAT for a used car - VAT is a tax payable once on a new or imported car....period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guys - I've just had the whits scared out of me...

I've checked used prices on What car? (which normally from my experience is the best guide available all of my last 4 cars were valued using that before I went to a dealer and it was close....)

Whilst they don't have 220d listed, the IS250SE appears not to fair too well at all:

Comparison - IS250SE list £25400, 2005/55/10k, Dealer £20695 and Trade £18445

Compared to - BMW325SE list £25575, 2005/55/10k, Dealer £22795 and Trade £20695

So what you would get trade for a BMW is what you should pay a dealer for a used IS250SE...and I can hear al of you saying that the lex is loaded to the gunnels with kit, which is true, but in the long run it may not be such a good investment...? any views?

Parkers as usual "over values" by a £couple of hundred.

Anyone got access to Glass's?

I'm not worried in the slightest. Early valuations like this are notoriously unreliable and you have to look over the longer term say 2/3 years when most sensible people would think about changing. The Lexus is currently predicted to hold more of its value over 3 years than either the 3 series or the C class.

Secondly, BMW and Audi residuals are always quoted as been good until you actually come to sell. Then you find out that either you don't have the right options for the secondhand market or the options you have paid for are not taken into account when pricing for trade in. Also, given the discounts available on 325 SEs, that trade figure is way over priced.

Finally, in my opinion, no cars offer good residuals, some are just less horrifying than others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Finally, in my opinion, no cars offer good residuals, some are just less horrifying than others.

Yep that's fair, well except Mini's and Ferrari's........ :P

The only thing that can change the fortunes of the IS is how popular it becomes - the old IS did well for so long, because it never sold that great, but was desirable to those who wanted one, hence its values stayed up. The new one seems to be selling much better, but the flip side of that is that if desirability declines, then residuals will tumble. The only affordable car that I've seen that has sold by the bucketload and still maintained great residuals, is the BMW mini

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The only affordable car that I've seen that has sold by the bucketload and still maintained great residuals, is the BMW mini

Absolutely - and the car mags have never been overly enammered by the Mini...The Mini is a very "desirable" car according to the punters - so it does prove that buyers are more intelligent than to be swayed by ad's. Porsche's do well too...Car's are also a status symbol...which is where I'm still unsure about Lexus in the UK with Jo Pub...and maybe that's why the car mags are so anti Lex.

The only way to see how "desirable" the IS is to Joe Public is to show it people who have no Lexus experience...and see them light up!! I think it'll hit the sweet spot as more and more hit the roads. Just look at how many ex-German brigade members now drive the New IS...and how many have one on order.

So yes - we do need to give it a year or 3 ideally to see how well it does...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this