I Know Its Late But Is Anyone Watching Undercover

[GWilso]

Soz title should say late :D

a caption from the documentry to start:

A Dispatches reporter attends mosques run by organisations whose public faces are presented as moderate and finds preachers condemning integration into British society, condemning democracy and praising the Taliban for killing British soldiers.

I'm not a racialist far from it but watching this undercover dispatches about preaching in British mosques is very worrying it talks about about punishing non Muslim believers that equates to about 70% of British public

Marrying girls before puberty is permissible?

And Muslims mustn’t accept British democracy

Most of the mosques within the UK are funded by British charity am I wrong in being worried about their comments/beliefs about the non believers??????

Leaflets are being handed out in mosques conspiring to do away with a non Muslim goverments

WHATS GOING ON HERE

Sorry admin if I’m not allowed to say any of this just expressing opinions of what’s on TV

[T7RY B]

Totally agree with you.

I go on holiday to a Muslim country and I respect their ways and wishes.

I don't slag off their Governments or their customs. I don't condem their way of life.

I have Muslim friends who visit us in the UK and they find it atrocious that we cannot fly our flag without getting into trouble or offending somebody.

It's a minority who get noticed for the bad things they try to do and it then gives the majority a bad name.

[puresilk]

Hi GWilso

Interesting post but here are some fo the facts about ISLAM!

I know there are a lot of false preachings in mosques but a lot of this is political and has nothing to do with Islam, there are a minority who claim to be Muslim and dish out this crap at mosques but a true muslim ignores these and tries to correct their political views of those who are trying to put these views under the flag of islam!

Any true muslim goes by 2 things the teachings in the Holy Quran and the Prophet Muhammed's (PBUH) sunnah. Now the Quran is the word of Allah(***) and the Prophets sunnah is how he interpretated the Quran in his daily life and gave examples of this as a lot of people do not understand the Quran fully so they look at how the Prohphet did things.

In Islam you are not allowed to have sexual intercourse with a women who has not reached puberty and is of marriagable age.

The Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) also stated in his sunnah (teachings) that you must respect and abide by the laws of the land that you live in, therefore if in the UK the laws must be respected and that goes for all muslims.

For example Interest is forbidden in Islam but you have to get a mortgage in the UK if you want to buy a house, and you have to pay interest so Islam is understanding of this and it is accepted that you can take out a mortgage, even though a mortgage is a blatent rip off and the ammount of interest you pay back is almost 3 times what you borrowed hence why Islam forbids Interest. You can get an Islamic mortgage but the jury is still out on them cos you do pay interest somewhere its just called something else like part rent etc etc.

I know there is a common belief that muslims and Islam promotes terrorism but I assure you that in the Quran terrorism is forbidden for any true muslim and so is murder and ill quote a passage from the Quran "anyone who kills a single soul it is as if he killed entire humanity" so you can see Islam forbids murder and denounces terrorism and states that every soul is very precious.

Islam also forbids Racism stating that Allah created Man and made him from different races hence a white man is no more superior than a black man etc.

Also in the time of the Prophet Muhammed non muslims lived alongside muslims where christians and jews were allowed to practice their faith and live amongst muslims in peace, Islam teaches muslims to be tolerent and polite to people of other faiths and respect them despite what you might have heard.

All the above quotes and explanations come from my understanding and reading of the Quran and Sunnah so Islam is a religeon of peace, but I know there are many so called muslims who dont pray, read the Quran, or have any knowledge and they preach hatred and false views for their own political gains and means under the flag of Islam and they are the ones who I am wary of.

If you have more questions feel free to put them up if I can answer them i will.

[Anees]

What a fantastic response. Honest and truthful. :)

Islam teaches muslims to be tolerent and polite to people of other faiths and respect them despite what differences you might have heard.

^^ Stuff like that doesn't sell papers for the gutter press however does it?

[GWilso]

Thanks for your response

Again if you Have/had watched the documentary I think then like me you will be extremely worried about the level of extremism even if it is just the minority.

What the quran states or says is obviously irrelevant to the extremists and my point is, their the ones we should be extremely wary of.

[Ellz]

Thanks for your response

Again if you Have/had watched the documentary I think then like me you will be extremely worried about the level of extremism even if it is just the minority.

What the quran states or says is obviously irrelevant to the extremists and my point is, their the ones we should be extremely wary of.

Each to their own, as long as it doesnt effect me im not fussed but they do need to see to the extremists, not just in Islam in all ways of life and religion, but that would be in a perfect world.

The extremists are getting the young thats the really bad part, when your older you can make your own mind up on what u think/believe is right or wrong.

Anyone seen the stuff on the new partical generator ?? being built under genever border, they say it should be able to recreate the big bang to find out what happened think this could shake up some relgions and some views, i supose we'll have to wait and see.

[baby_lexus]

An interesting post. Please DO NOT assume that mosques are actually run like that all over the uk. Some may have extremist views, but, many do not. A pity that dispatches decided to highlight this particular one, and seemed to ignore all of the others. A lot of mosques now have second/third generation people running them who are born and bred here in the uk. Things are certainly not as bad as they are shown.

As for leaflets etc. Loads of organisations do hand them out... and unfortuantley breed on the propaganda wagon ie Iraq, Palastine etc. Many ignore them, some don't.

[Paul Reece]

Hi GWilso

Interesting post but here are some fo the facts about ISLAM!

I know there are a lot of false preachings in mosques but a lot of this is political and has nothing to do with Islam, there are a minority who claim to be Muslim and dish out this crap at mosques but a true muslim ignores these and tries to correct their political views of those who are trying to put these views under the flag of islam!

Any true muslim goes by 2 things the teachings in the Holy Quran and the Prophet Muhammed's (PBUH) sunnah. Now the Quran is the word of Allah(***) and the Prophets sunnah is how he interpretated the Quran in his daily life and gave examples of this as a lot of people do not understand the Quran fully so they look at how the Prohphet did things.

In Islam you are not allowed to have sexual intercourse with a women who has not reached puberty and is of marriagable age.

The Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) also stated in his sunnah (teachings) that you must respect and abide by the laws of the land that you live in, therefore if in the UK the laws must be respected and that goes for all muslims.

For example Interest is forbidden in Islam but you have to get a mortgage in the UK if you want to buy a house, and you have to pay interest so Islam is understanding of this and it is accepted that you can take out a mortgage, even though a mortgage is a blatent rip off and the ammount of interest you pay back is almost 3 times what you borrowed hence why Islam forbids Interest. You can get an Islamic mortgage but the jury is still out on them cos you do pay interest somewhere its just called something else like part rent etc etc.

I know there is a common belief that muslims and Islam promotes terrorism but I assure you that in the Quran terrorism is forbidden for any true muslim and so is murder and ill quote a passage from the Quran "anyone who kills a single soul it is as if he killed entire humanity" so you can see Islam forbids murder and denounces terrorism and states that every soul is very precious.

Islam also forbids Racism stating that Allah created Man and made him from different races hence a white man is no more superior than a black man etc.

Also in the time of the Prophet Muhammed non muslims lived alongside muslims where christians and jews were allowed to practice their faith and live amongst muslims in peace, Islam teaches muslims to be tolerent and polite to people of other faiths and respect them despite what you might have heard.

All the above quotes and explanations come from my understanding and reading of the Quran and Sunnah so Islam is a religeon of peace, but I know there are many so called muslims who dont pray, read the Quran, or have any knowledge and they preach hatred and false views for their own political gains and means under the flag of Islam and they are the ones who I am wary of.

If you have more questions feel free to put them up if I can answer them i will.

After watching programe you have to admit it does get you thinking and if all the above is the case why didn't any member in the mosques, at the time contest or stop what was being preached ?

[puresilk]

At my local mosque the Imam is the leader of the prayer and in my views is a very pious and decent man I never see him get involved in the politics, once the prayer is complete the Imam usually goes off as he has many other things to participate in which may be a reason why no one challenges these idiots outside mosques!

There is a quote from the Holy Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) where he states that "At the end of time there will be 73 different sects of islam" my undertsanding of this is that muslims are "pick and mix" with islam to suit their needs hence not following it correclty. And belive in some parst of the Quran and dismiss other parts of it!

I can understand why some of these extrememe views are taken, as it is a fact that muslims and Muslim countries are being persecuted and attacked by the west steadliy over the years, examples In chechnya in the late 80's early 90's tens of thousands of muslims were murdered and ethnic cleansing was rife by the old Soviet Union and no one intervened for years!

Another example is The illegal invasion of Iraq and occupation of it, some 500,000 children have died and countless others what crime did they commit? Was the removal of one corrupt leader Sadam Hussan whos Bath party was put into power by the US in the first place worth all the bloodshed? If iraq did not have oil would the US and UK who blatently lied about wepaons of mass destruction have gone in? Who is paying for this war and why are the oil feilds so well guarded in Iraq by the US forces?

In palestine innocent muslims are being killed with tanks and shells by the Isreali army villages are being wiped out but non of this is shown on the news! when a palestinian whos whole family, neighbourhood has been wiped out by Isreali bombs, straps a bomb to himself and detonates it in a crowded isreali market, there is uproar and it is all over the news! But one must ask himself is that a normal thing to do i mean to strap a bomb to yourself and blow yourself up, you have to really P*&%$D off at something! It is not a normal thing thing to do!

After 9/11 it was stated that all them men involved were of Suadi descent not one of them was Iraqi or from Afganistan! So why did the US attack Afganistan and Iraq? and why cant they find Bin Laden? I mean they have satelites in space that can read a news paper from the ground and they cant find 1 man? something aint right there! Yet the saudi's are best friends with the US and the BUSH family has business ties with the Bin laden family through their corporate companies !

And now the US are gunning for Iran!

All the above are the views of some of these extremists that I have heard and a lot of it is true and fact, BUT i do not agree with the way they want to change things and a lot of the political statements they use on young muslim boys who have no knowledge of the bigger picture!

[dibsLPG]

At my local mosque the Imam is the leader of the prayer and in my views is a very pious and decent man I never see him get involved in the politics, once the prayer is complete the Imam usually goes off as he has many other things to participate in which may be a reason why no one challenges these idiots outside mosques!

-----

All the above are the views of some of these extremists that I have heard and a lot of it is true and fact, BUT i do not agree with the way they want to change things and a lot of the political statements they use on young muslim boys who have no knowledge of the bigger picture!

Once again said beautifully and fully agreed..

The main aim of any documentary is to have has menay viewing figures, so it makes perfect sense to show the extreme side and not the 99.9% of the normal mosques which have a very good reputation and work well in the community regardless of faiths. I know a few which have the local vicar attend the Friday prays and the Imam attends the Sunday services. This is the true teaching of Islam to have tolerance of others and to learn from each other.

It good to talk / discuss and disband some of them stereotypical views generated by the media (who has lost its independence). History is a great teacher and not too far back the same views were been banded about regarding IRA and the Irish in Ireland when they started their bombings campaign of UK back in the 80-90’s they were classed as terrorist has well.

So when the media hype puts a spot light on one minor issue thus portraying it has the norm it must be taken with a pinch of salt, and you must ask your self do I believe everything I see on the box or do I go to the local mosque and ask questions directory to make my own mind up..(Find out for your self happens to be a very important teaching from the Holy Prophet Muhammed (PBUH)) and has “Ice cube” or “Ice T” said once “don’t believe the hype”, I think

Dibslpg

[usuf_x]

Hi GWilso

Interesting post but here are some fo the facts about ISLAM!

I know there are a lot of false preachings in mosques but a lot of this is political and has nothing to do with Islam, there are a minority who claim to be Muslim and dish out this crap at mosques but a true muslim ignores these and tries to correct their political views of those who are trying to put these views under the flag of islam!

Any true muslim goes by 2 things the teachings in the Holy Quran and the Prophet Muhammed's (PBUH) sunnah. Now the Quran is the word of Allah(***) and the Prophets sunnah is how he interpretated the Quran in his daily life and gave examples of this as a lot of people do not understand the Quran fully so they look at how the Prohphet did things.

In Islam you are not allowed to have sexual intercourse with a women who has not reached puberty and is of marriagable age.

The Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) also stated in his sunnah (teachings) that you must respect and abide by the laws of the land that you live in, therefore if in the UK the laws must be respected and that goes for all muslims.

For example Interest is forbidden in Islam but you have to get a mortgage in the UK if you want to buy a house, and you have to pay interest so Islam is understanding of this and it is accepted that you can take out a mortgage, even though a mortgage is a blatent rip off and the ammount of interest you pay back is almost 3 times what you borrowed hence why Islam forbids Interest. You can get an Islamic mortgage but the jury is still out on them cos you do pay interest somewhere its just called something else like part rent etc etc.

I know there is a common belief that muslims and Islam promotes terrorism but I assure you that in the Quran terrorism is forbidden for any true muslim and so is murder and ill quote a passage from the Quran "anyone who kills a single soul it is as if he killed entire humanity" so you can see Islam forbids murder and denounces terrorism and states that every soul is very precious.

Islam also forbids Racism stating that Allah created Man and made him from different races hence a white man is no more superior than a black man etc.

Also in the time of the Prophet Muhammed non muslims lived alongside muslims where christians and jews were allowed to practice their faith and live amongst muslims in peace, Islam teaches muslims to be tolerent and polite to people of other faiths and respect them despite what you might have heard.

All the above quotes and explanations come from my understanding and reading of the Quran and Sunnah so Islam is a religeon of peace, but I know there are many so called muslims who dont pray, read the Quran, or have any knowledge and they preach hatred and false views for their own political gains and means under the flag of Islam and they are the ones who I am wary of.

If you have more questions feel free to put them up if I can answer them i will.

Thats well written and said.

I for one did not watch this programme but I can imagine it would have shown the negative side more than the positive ( this probably is the bump up viewings or other reason) but I will also agree that this sort of thing probably does happen BUT only at a few places.

One thing for sure is that this would need to be stopped, I dont want no one coming up to my son telling him this and that about islam when they dont know them selfs and that happens a lot (preaching without full knowledge).

That pi ss es me off :tsktsk: - sorry letting some anger out

[puresilk]

The media are just paranoid and trying to spread as much false information on Islam as they can!

As we are all well aware they are very powerfull and there are so many ignorant and people with a lack of knowledge that belive anything they read or see on TV!

Now i know how the Irish must have felt!

[GWilso]

The media are just paranoid and trying to spread as much false information on Islam as they can!

As we are all well aware they are very powerfull and there are so many ignorant and people with a lack of knowledge that belive anything they read or see on TV!

Now i know how the Irish must have felt!

The media are just paranoid and trying to spread as much false information on Islam as they can!

As we are all well aware they are very powerfull and there are so many ignorant and people with a lack of knowledge that belive anything they read or see on TV!

Now i know how the Irish must have felt!

I dont just need to watch TV or read press releases to come to a conclusion open your eyes this haterid and extremisim is all around us......... I live in what was a quiet little place called High Wycombe not so long ago was the centre of the terrorism plots so forgive me for being nervous

As far as I can see religion is the route of all evil and causes more hurt and pain in this world than anything

else!!!!!

End of

[Rillo]

"In Palestine innocent Muslims are being killed with tanks and shells by the Isreali army villages are being wiped out but non of this is shown on the news! when a palestinian whos whole family, neighbourhood has been wiped out by Israeli bombs, straps a bomb to himself and detonates it in a crowded isreali market, there is uproar and it is all over the news! But one must ask himself is that a normal thing to do i mean to strap a bomb to yourself and blow yourself up, you have to really P*&%$D off at something! It is not a normal thing thing to do! "

Sadly life is not black and white just shades of grey. Playing devils' advocate for a second - Israel is surrounded by multiple nations who teach their children that all Jews are subhuman and that Israel should be wiped from the face of the map. In that situation you can expect Israel to put up a pretty robust defense against cold blooded suicide bombers??

Another thing you don't see on the news is Palestinian gunmen riding around in red crescent ambulances to protect themselves.

BTW - I am not Jewish and have no axe to grind but organised religion, intolelerance, segregation and especially violence in the name of it, really p:tsktsk:s me off.

Fighting for religion is like fighting to see who has the best invisible friend........

[puresilk]

And what do you think Jews teach their children about arabs and muslims?

We could go on an on!

[fatpieman69]

Hi GWilso

Interesting post but here are some fo the facts about ISLAM!

I know there are a lot of false preachings in mosques but a lot of this is political and has nothing to do with Islam, there are a minority who claim to be Muslim and dish out this crap at mosques but a true muslim ignores these and tries to correct their political views of those who are trying to put these views under the flag of islam!

Any true muslim goes by 2 things the teachings in the Holy Quran and the Prophet Muhammed's (PBUH) sunnah. Now the Quran is the word of Allah(***) and the Prophets sunnah is how he interpretated the Quran in his daily life and gave examples of this as a lot of people do not understand the Quran fully so they look at how the Prohphet did things.

In Islam you are not allowed to have sexual intercourse with a women who has not reached puberty and is of marriagable age.

The Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) also stated in his sunnah (teachings) that you must respect and abide by the laws of the land that you live in, therefore if in the UK the laws must be respected and that goes for all muslims.

For example Interest is forbidden in Islam but you have to get a mortgage in the UK if you want to buy a house, and you have to pay interest so Islam is understanding of this and it is accepted that you can take out a mortgage, even though a mortgage is a blatent rip off and the ammount of interest you pay back is almost 3 times what you borrowed hence why Islam forbids Interest. You can get an Islamic mortgage but the jury is still out on them cos you do pay interest somewhere its just called something else like part rent etc etc.

I know there is a common belief that muslims and Islam promotes terrorism but I assure you that in the Quran terrorism is forbidden for any true muslim and so is murder and ill quote a passage from the Quran "anyone who kills a single soul it is as if he killed entire humanity" so you can see Islam forbids murder and denounces terrorism and states that every soul is very precious.

Islam also forbids Racism stating that Allah created Man and made him from different races hence a white man is no more superior than a black man etc.

Also in the time of the Prophet Muhammed non muslims lived alongside muslims where christians and jews were allowed to practice their faith and live amongst muslims in peace, Islam teaches muslims to be tolerent and polite to people of other faiths and respect them despite what you might have heard.

All the above quotes and explanations come from my understanding and reading of the Quran and Sunnah so Islam is a religeon of peace, but I know there are many so called muslims who dont pray, read the Quran, or have any knowledge and they preach hatred and false views for their own political gains and means under the flag of Islam and they are the ones who I am wary of.

If you have more questions feel free to put them up if I can answer them i will.

It's very brave of you to reply but I'm glad you did. I have posted before about the fact that most religions arnt bad and based on the same things it's just some interpret it the way they like and bring in bad teachings. I know from religious studies that Islam is a peacefull religion when folowing Muhammed's teachings, It's just a shame some profess to be muslim but don't do what Islam teaches.

I can't believe that journalists pick on things like that when both George bush and Tony blair profess to be christian, attend chuch occasionaly and they still go out and fight wars; where in the bible does it say that Jesus urged his folowers to fight in any war or even say war is fine? how are they different to these muslim extreemists because of this?

[Rillo]

And what do you think Jews teach their children about arabs and muslims?

We could go on an on!

agreed!! :)

[puresilk]

A lot of people do actually think that G W BUSH is on a Christian Crusade in the Middle East as he keps referring to the Axis of Evil etc etc,

My opinion is that he thins the axis of evil is Islam!

But at the end of the day Every religeon teaches peace why cant they all adhere to that? its when politics get involved and misinterpretations when all the grief starts and of course idvidiual idiots like G W BUSH!!

[Rillo]

Not sure if anyone else agrees but what is important to me is not what happens in any other country but what happens in my own. It seems there is a a very small minority of the Muslim community who preach extremist values. I get annoyed with the Muslim community because they never appear to tackle this and, I get really annoyed that because of the PC brigade, that the rest of the the communities cannot help tackle this or raise this issue without being labeled a bigot.

At the end of the day no matter what religion you follow there are good folks and bad and we want the good ones to win - just seems that our hands are being tied.

Any thoughts appreciated....

For the record I consider George W as big a fanatic as those who strap bombs to themselves. He is just playing for another invisible friend that's all.

[Pip]

Each to their own, as long as it doesnt effect me im not fussed but they do need to see to the extremists, not just in Islam in all ways of life and religion, but that would be in a perfect world.

It attitudes like "as long as it doesnt effect me im not fussed" is what has allowed these ppl to enter and breed their philosophies into the UK.

A mosque this way was raided and arms were found. What does that say?

BTW the areas in the northwest are a stranglehold for these ppl and they are much to do with a lot of crime as well etc.

I thought Islam forbade all that?

Have you not heard of their recent forwarded plans to create a £100m mosque in London in time for the 2012 olympics? And OUR government will help fund it?

:tsktsk: :tsktsk:

[puresilk]

I thought UK was a multicultural society!

Id rather spend 100M on a mosque, Cinegog, Church, Temple etc then Billions on Blowing the S&%T out of Iraq!!

[Pip]

Multicultural yeah but come on why the need for a landmark like that in the UK?

You talk multicultural yet they are the ones who dont integrate and want in my eyes, a segregated faction.

Have the Indian, Jewish, Chinese, basically any other race/faith asked for such things, no and that is the KEY point.

They have plenty landmarks in Mecca or wherever perhaps they should go back there if they feel so strongly?

[dibsLPG]

Multicultural yeah but come on why the need for a landmark like that in the UK?

You talk multicultural yet they are the ones who dont integrate and want in my eyes, a segregated faction.

Have the Indian, Jewish, Chinese, basically any other race/faith asked for such things, no and that is the KEY point.

They have plenty landmarks in Mecca or wherever perhaps they should go back there if they feel so strongly?

With respect:-

The Indian community have a landmark Temple just out side London (its was support by the Gov, planning, immigration (workers) tax breaks for materials etc.) and has become a major tourists attraction.

The Buddhist’s have a major Temple somewhere near Scotland, which the national Lottery funded for a new roof and refurbishment also a major tourists attraction

The Jewish temples are majority of them registered charity and thus have tax breaks, and grant funding eligible.+ a landmark sinacog in Leicester, support by the Gov and the national trust / heritage fund has it is a unique design etc..

we can go on and on, etc...

Please carry out some research first before making broad remarks about a certain community;-

[Rillo]

Maybe the reason that people are sensitive to a large Super-Mosque in London is not to do with the cost, but going back to the start of this thread, what some mosques represent. Whilst it is true that the Buddhist, Sikh and Jewish Communities do have large publicly funded temples we have yet to see them rally in the street demanding death to infidels and preaching hatred towards a country that kindly provides the funding for their places of worship??

BTW this is turning into a good debate - maybe we should get all affected parties to resolve their issues via LOC?? :-)

[Pip]

Please carry out some research first before making broad remarks about a certain community;-

With Respect:

Just a minute nothing was broad or sweeping about what i said, its the damn truth. These communities (Jewish, Bangladeshi, Indian, Chinese etc) dont DEMAND which the muslims do and then try to indoctrinate their beliefs and religion on ppl......get the f*ck out of here.

Maybe the reason that people are sensitive to a large Super-Mosque in London is not to do with the cost, but going back to the start of this thread, what some mosques represent. Whilst it is true that the Buddhist, Sikh and Jewish Communities do have large publicly funded temples we have yet to see them rally in the street demanding death to infidels and preaching hatred towards a country that kindly provides the funding for their places of worship??

This is exactly the point and Rillo has summed it up well. Coming back to my point regarding integration and segregation. When have the other communities demanded for their owns schools and own bloody towns for godsake?! :o

When was the last time you seen a Rabbi, Monk or Maharaj on the street with a hook for a hand inciting hatered and death to all non muslims and Western society in general??

NEVER