"b Pillar" Wind Noise Is 220d

[rottwailer2001]

Hello my IS has wind noise in both "B pillars" when I drive up to 120 km/h and I tried to seal the doors, the handles, the windos and the noise keep on. Has anybody this problem? Have you solve it?

Thanks in advance

[rottwailer2001]

"The Mole", doy you know anything abut "b pillar" wind-noise at 120km/h? My IS220d has ana annoying wind noise in both "b" pillar near the ears of driver and passenger and it is very annoying. Do you know any solution for this problem?

Thanks in advance

[Gareth]

My apologies, I didn't realise you'd already posted a topic and had had no luck.

I can tell you that I have a new IS 220d and I don't get any wind noise at 80mph that I have really noticed.

[Tango]

"The Mole", doy you know anything abut "b pillar" wind-noise at 120km/h? My IS220d has ana annoying wind noise in both "b" pillar near the ears of driver and passenger and it is very annoying. Do you know any solution for this problem?

Thanks in advance

If you at my topics you'll find I complained about this when first got my SE-L...posts will be around January/February 2006. Lexus changed out ALL the rubber seals on both front doors, including the glass to door seals but it made little or no difference to the wind noise. Finally solution was a very small adjustment to the door catch/lock which stopped the noise. However, the car is so exceptionally quiet that the side fresh air vents vent cause slight 'wind noise' when directed up the side of the glass :)

[Gareth]

Don't be silly - we couldn't possibly find a single complaint in the giant list you generated :P

[simon k]

i have had this happen twice now, its the piece of trim thats on the outside of the window that fits to the door and window with the rubber on it,the trim works loose when you open and close the window and creates a small gap allowing the air in,the first time it happened the trim nearly blew off, it started again this week. you have to fully open the window and bang the trim down with your hand and this should cure it

[Tango]

Don't be silly - we couldn't possibly find a single complaint in the giant list you generated :P

Is250 Problems

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Mine had it too...

[rottwailer2001]

"The Mole", doy you know anything abut "b pillar" wind-noise at 120km/h? My IS220d has ana annoying wind noise in both "b" pillar near the ears of driver and passenger and it is very annoying. Do you know any solution for this problem?

Thanks in advance

If you at my topics you'll find I complained about this when first got my SE-L...posts will be around January/February 2006. Lexus changed out ALL the rubber seals on both front doors, including the glass to door seals but it made little or no difference to the wind noise. Finally solution was a very small adjustment to the door catch/lock which stopped the noise. However, the car is so exceptionally quiet that the side fresh air vents vent cause slight 'wind noise' when directed up the side of the glass :)

Could you put some photo or describe the catch/lock fit to describe to my dealer in order to try to remove my wind annoying noise.

Thanks

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Mine - no pictures but it was the seal on the door itself, at the top. There is a "lip" which didn't quite fit.

[rottwailer2001]

Mine - no pictures but it was the seal on the door itself, at the top. There is a "lip" which didn't quite fit.

Have you changed the seal at your car? Did the change solve the problem?

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Yes, if I recall one was new and the other was taken off and refitted. It was almost a year ago now, and the car has been quiet since. Before It was like having the window not quite fully closed...

[3 MSF]

Yes, if I recall one was new and the other was taken off and refitted. It was almost a year ago now, and the car has been quiet since. Before It was like having the window not quite fully closed...

Guys, you'd be amazed at the root cause for any number of vehicle 'wind-noise' concerns. When Lexus develop a new model, Engineers from the Design and Quality Assurance Divisions are allocated ownership, responsibility and accountability for wind-noise performance, usually targetting a performance level equal to or better than that of the currently considered 'best-in-class' vehicle. This activity is typically supported by the use of hand-held ultrasonic emitters and receivers that can tell you very accurately where there is an air gap / leakage path, especially around the door, moon-roof and windcsreen portions of the vehicle.

As the issue seems quite common (my vehicle included) you might think that this is the accepted engineering standard; I don't think this to be the case. Small component / assembly process variations in volume production can cause pockets of non-conformance that may go undetected, as every vehicle isn't tested at speeds up to and beyond 80 mph, where the issue seems to manifest itself.

To locate your leak path (if you have one) you may be surprised to know that cigarette smoke is a useful indicator when travelling at speed. The noise is often created by air leaving the vehicle, not entering it. This is caused by the pressure drop that occurs on the surface of the vehicle as its speed increases and the air inside the vehicle travels to the position of lower pressure. This is also the reason why smoke is drawn out of the window when it is left slightly open when the vehicle is moving, as opposed to being blown back in :)

Noise created by air-flow against the window itself can also sound like leakage, when it is in fact being transmitted through the door glass itself (typically 4mm thick). To counteract this issue, Toyota developed front door glass for the original Avensis which was 5mm thick to tremendous effect.

Anyway, interesting as this may be, and before this becomes a reference thesis, here are some suggestions for the most likely potential root causes of your wind-noise concern:

- Poor fitting glass runs (rubber seals in frame)

- Poor glass profile to seal profile in frame

- Poor 'fitting print' of door-frame contact surface area to door opening weatherstrip / seal

- Air leakage adjacent to the door frame inner profile where it meets the door trim upper portion (around shoulder height when seated); there is usually a block of soft, closed-cell sponge positioned here to prevent air leakage, but it may have been fitted slightly out of position.

Taping-up the glass / glass run meeting portion will usually tell you whether it was poor fitting glass runs or poor glass profile x glass run. If removal, cleaning, lubricating with silicone and re-fitting don't work here, you'll probably need new components to improve the condition.

Frame to seal print should ideally be around 8~10 mm wide, but as low as 5 mm should still afford you a good seal, but anything less should be counteracted by adjusting the door fitting condition slightly inwards(usually with the door-lock striker (latch loop on door aperture panel on 'B' pillar). A gap in the print will indicate a leak path.

Leakage through the top of the door trim will need rectification by re-positioning the hole-filling sponge, or adding more sponge (whichever is easier)

I hope that's given you a few ideas to follow up :winky:

Let us know how you get on; good luck!

Mark

[rottwailer2001]

How can I can do this?

Frame to seal print should ideally be around 8~10 mm wide, but as low as 5 mm should still afford you a good seal, but anything less should be counteracted by adjusting the door fitting condition slightly inwards(usually with the door-lock striker (latch loop on door aperture panel on 'B' pillar). A gap in the print will indicate a leak path.

Thanks in advance

[3 MSF]

How can I can do this?

Frame to seal print should ideally be around 8~10 mm wide, but as low as 5 mm should still afford you a good seal, but anything less should be counteracted by adjusting the door fitting condition slightly inwards(usually with the door-lock striker (latch loop on door aperture panel on 'B' pillar). A gap in the print will indicate a leak path.

Thanks in advance

The 'seal print' can ideally be checked by spraying 'crack test developer' onto the rubber sealing strip and closing the door very slowly until it's level with the rear door (so as not to overclose the door and get a false reading); it's useful to have a plastic straight edge (ruler or similar) to use as a flatness reference. The crack test developer (available from RS Components in a spray can) leaves a powdery deposit on the weather-strip. As you compress it against the body panel, it leaves a powdery print that will show you how much seal contact there is (seal print) and can be wiped off easily. You may find an alternative material to use, but I've found the NDT crack-test developer (widely used in engineering to check materials for hair-line cracks) to be the most effective.

DO NOT USE CRACK-TEST DYE, USE 'DEVELOPER'!

Should you find the print to be inadequate, there are typically three 'easier' solutions:

1. Slightly loosen the screws that hold the door-lock striker loop onto the 'B' pillar. Mark around the striker with a pencil, or put some tape on the panel surface to remove later, so that you can confirm how much you've moved the striker by tapping it 'inwards' and re-tightening it. Don't hit the striker directly as you may inadvertently damage your panel / paintwork. It's best to place a wooden block or similar against the striker and hit that with the hammer. You should normally need to move the striker only 1 or 2 mm, and only if your front door is slightly proud of your rear door. If you move the front door more that 1 mm inboard of the rear door, you could cause a secondary wind-noise phenomenon (so best not to, just in case...)

2. If setting the door inwards might give you poor front x rear door levelness, you can tap the body panel flanges outwards until the seal-print is adequate.

3. Ask the dealer to do it for you; they should have all the right tools available to hand.

Typically, door closing force will increase a little, but that's because you're now compressing the seal more to get a good seal and countermeasure your wind-noise problem.

Hope that helps! :winky:

- Mark.

[rottwailer2001]

Where can i get 'crack test developer' spray? Could you tell me any commercial make?

Thanks in advance

[Tango]

Where can i get 'crack test developer' spray? Could you tell me any commercial make?

Thanks in advance

The crack test developer (available from RS Components in a spray can) ...RS shops everywhere, except perhaps Madrid.

[rottwailer2001]

Ok, in Madrid there is an online RS shop, nad i can order from the uk online rs shop too, but now my problem is that i can't locate this product in the online shop http://rswww.com.

Has the product other name? Could someone tell me th reference?

Thanks

[Tango]

Ok, in Madrid there is an online RS shop, nad i can order from the uk online rs shop too, but now my problem is that i can't locate this product in the online shop http://rswww.com.

Has the product other name? Could someone tell me th reference?

Thanks

You're right, you have to know what you're looking for. Use the search engine for 'Non Destructive Testing'

It's RS Stock no.303-2397 and manufacturing part no. 008A007 S Y 1.

They have it in stock in 400 ml spray cans £11.85 each.

[3 MSF]

Tango - thanks for saving me half-an-hour :winky:

- Mark

[rottwailer2001]

"Leakage through the top of the door trim will need rectification by re-positioning the hole-filling sponge, or adding more sponge (whichever is easier)"

How can i repositioning this sponge? I am looking at my door trim but it is glued to the car. Could you tell me how i can repositioning?

Thanks

[3 MSF]

"Leakage through the top of the door trim will need rectification by re-positioning the hole-filling sponge, or adding more sponge (whichever is easier)"

How can i repositioning this sponge? I am looking at my door trim but it is glued to the car. Could you tell me how i can repositioning?

Thanks

It's not glued, it's held in place by double-sided tape. Trouble is, you often destroy the sponge by pulling it off the tape, rather than pulling the tape from the frame. I suggest you pack more sponge into the gap between the door inner and outer panels if you think thats the source of your air-leak.

- Mark