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Bigger / Larger Intercooler On Tte Supercharger Is200 ?


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okay guys, I saw some other threads over here about this katana intercooler thing... so now I thought about a new discussion-thread about this "larger / bigger intercooler on the supercharger kit from TTE".........

now, first of all, for me I just want to switch up to a bigger intercooler because of the look. I think the tte IC looks kinda tiny but anyways...

whats possible to get for my stock TTE supercharger?

here, thats my car:

kevsTTELLK1.JPG

DSCF1493.JPG

..and this is buddy's car, a IS200 turbo:

boergysLLK.JPG

I luv that big thing, I really would like to cut the bumper to fill in the IC and put the numberplate on the side or something - like this or so:

mitsuevo.jpg

....., but I see here in the forums there are some "bad" (in meaning of not good ;) ) issues to put a big thing like that on my charger kit (loosing power and stuff).... but whats the real deal? anybody tried something like that or something?

anybody got pics of that new katana installed in the car?

or what else can we do, to put a larger intercooler without loosing any HP or torque?!!?

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when i was speaking to steve at charlesworth motors he told me that adding a larger intercooler would be of benefit if only slightly.He didnt say that there was any other mod to be done,injectors etc and he certainly doesnt beleive it could loose power.Im considering trying one out when i get the chance,and if it runs like a pig ill let ya know.But i too find the tte IC a little on the tichy side and a larger one would look better.

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This is a bit of a weird question, but has anyone ever measured the difference between air temps from where it goes into the intercooler to where it comes out - how much difference do these things actually make as I guess in theory the air isn't actually in there that long before it's blasted out the other side?

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I would be careful as well as the TDi one is meant to up the boost which means more fueling etc etc then your talking alot more money. There is "meant" to be alot better than others but even if u put another make on you'll never no what you have done to boost/fueling etc.

I think its a wait and see for you supercharger guys as there a few ppl already getting the TDi intercooler, prolex have got theres as well, they may have some test results/ideas as well.

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Woah, just found this pic:

jr3_spec_fmic_temps.gif

The air is 100 degrees cooler when the intercooler is fitted - that's awesome, I was expecting a drop of a few degrees!

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i understand the reservations of people regarding fuelling,but id like to do my own experiment,if i whack on a larger cooler which is what i was gonna do ages ago,ill drive it about,take it to a tuner, see if it is genuinely running lean and then make adjustments then.I dont really think that larger injectors etc are necessary tho as ive spoken to others outside of this community and tuners and they have clarified this for me before.

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Woah, just found this pic:

jr3_spec_fmic_temps.gif

The air is 100 degrees cooler when the intercooler is fitted - that's awesome, I was expecting a drop of a few degrees!

That seems to be an effective intercooler Aido (in terms of thermal efficiency). The flow efficiency is also vitally important. :)

The problem for most people, especially now that the UK is flooded with cheap rubbish from China, is trying to identify and evaluate the differentiation. Just becasue it looks pretty doesn't mean it's any good.

The other consideration is that of priorities. If someone just wants the "big intercooler" look, they may as well buy the cheapest one they can find that fits the bill, but if they want something that actually works - that requires more diligence.

Mark :)

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I dont really think that larger injectors etc are necessary tho

I have come to the same conclusion mate, a little device may be needed to change a few things but definatly not the internals.

So I too have placed an order to try it myself, I mean if it doesn't work then I can sell it on as they seem in short supply at the minutes then i'll be back at square 1 with nothing lost.

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The other consideration is that of priorities. If someone just wants the "big intercooler" look, they may as well buy the cheapest one they can find that fits the bill, but if they want something that actually works - that requires more diligence.

Mark :)

yeah, I "just" want that "big intercooler"-look for me & car, but I read over here in the forum that something bigger would let loose some horsepowers??

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With a turbo set up - too big an intercooler will create too much lag. Which I suppose could lose you power. Not sure about Supercharger though, might have a similar effect?

It seems pointless in getting a bigger intercooler just for looks? It's there to do a job. ;)

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i understand the reservations of people regarding fuelling,but id like to do my own experiment,if i whack on a larger cooler which is what i was gonna do ages ago,ill drive it about,take it to a tuner, see if it is genuinely running lean and then make adjustments then.I dont really think that larger injectors etc are necessary tho as ive spoken to others outside of this community and tuners and they have clarified this for me before.

Well a while back TTE experimented with a different pulley to see if the S/C kit could be sold to provided 0.4bar (I believe) of boost as standard, instead of the current 0.3bar that they kick out now!

Basically they cancelled this option and stuck with the 0.3bar of boost as they hit fueling issues!! They stated that the standard fueling setup of an IS200 wouldn't be sufficent to run anymore than 0.3bar and even then it was on it's limits!!

So in a nutshell if you 'whack' on a bigger intercooler and its any good at the job it's supposed to be doing, then you won't need to take your car to a tuner to find out if it's running lean!! You will know right away!!

Therefore, say you take the TDi intercooler and it does up the boost to 0.45bar as claimed, then your going to have a problem...period!! If you put on a cheaper 'bling' option it may help get the air a bit cooler but then again it may not....my guess would be it will just make you loose performance!!

Just for an example I know a guy who builds and races Supras...he currently has one running 520bhp and 510lbs/ft of tourque at 1.4bar of boost and all that through a standard smaller side mount intercooler!! Big is not always better....unless its been designed to work well with the right setup!!!

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Woah, just found this pic:

jr3_spec_fmic_temps.gif

The air is 100 degrees cooler when the intercooler is fitted - that's awesome, I was expecting a drop of a few degrees!

That seems to be an effective intercooler Aido (in terms of thermal efficiency). The flow efficiency is also vitally important. :)

The problem for most people, especially now that the UK is flooded with cheap rubbish from China, is trying to identify and evaluate the differentiation. Just becasue it looks pretty doesn't mean it's any good.

The other consideration is that of priorities. If someone just wants the "big intercooler" look, they may as well buy the cheapest one they can find that fits the bill, but if they want something that actually works - that requires more diligence.

Mark :)

Just as a reference......

When I originally turbo'd my IS engine I bought a "cheap chinese intercooler."

Although i don't know what temp the air was just after the turbo I do know that as far as cooling goes it did a great job. I know this as the temp reading from the Autronic air intake temp sensor read a steady 20-21 degrees. That meant nothing to me when I heard it but i was told it was a very good reading. The intercooler I used was from what I could see, very well made and used the better 'bar and plate' method of cooling. It was also of a reasonably large size, maybe even too large but I had over compensated at the time as i originally planned to up the boost later after engine rebuild.

As for what Mark has mentioned about the flow of the cooler I do not know the flow efficiency. Although I would hazard a guess that most of the flow efficiency is gained by having the right shape of end tanks on the cooler. I would expect that one bar and plate core is pretty much the same and as good as another bar and plate core. if you were to look at my old cooler which Elliot now has you will see that the shape of the end tanks seem to be very 'flow friendly' if you know what I mean.

I do stand to be corrected though....

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Yeah know where you're coming from Mark, a lot of the Supe guys rate the uprated SMIC better than a lot of the big FMICs!

Have to admit I'm well surprised, was expecting such a tiny drop seeing as the air isn't in the cooler for that long, wish I knew more about this stuff but unfortunately have to dedicate all my studying time to boring computer stuff :( Oh and beer :)

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Well, I have not been able to really test mine since last week, and I have had the Katana manifold fitted aswell as the intercooler.

My impression so far, the car seems to pull more and the dyno shows a 30hp improvement at the hubs.

I should get new tyres fitted tommorrow so I will be able to test drive it this weekend and post my impressions and some pictures

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Well, I have not been able to really test mine since last week, and I have had the Katana manifold fitted aswell as the intercooler.

My impression so far, the car seems to pull more and the dyno shows a 30hp improvement at the hubs.

I should get new tyres fitted tommorrow so I will be able to test drive it this weekend and post my impressions and some pictures

30bhp @ hubs is an excellent improvement. Nice one matey :D

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Cracking results there, Yemgi. Nice work...

Have you had any further upgrades done to work with the larger intercooler?

Jamie

Yes just a few more upgrades.

Katana manifold and HKS Silent HiPower

500cc injectors

Katana intercooler

Camcon

HKS FCON V Pro

He already had a stainless decat pipe and catback pipe and a K&N filter.

So a little bit spent for a 30BHP inprovement.

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Woah, just found this pic:

jr3_spec_fmic_temps.gif

The air is 100 degrees cooler when the intercooler is fitted - that's awesome, I was expecting a drop of a few degrees!

That seems to be an effective intercooler Aido (in terms of thermal efficiency). The flow efficiency is also vitally important. :)

The problem for most people, especially now that the UK is flooded with cheap rubbish from China, is trying to identify and evaluate the differentiation. Just becasue it looks pretty doesn't mean it's any good.

The other consideration is that of priorities. If someone just wants the "big intercooler" look, they may as well buy the cheapest one they can find that fits the bill, but if they want something that actually works - that requires more diligence.

Mark :)

Just as a reference......

When I originally turbo'd my IS engine I bought a "cheap chinese intercooler."

Although i don't know what temp the air was just after the turbo I do know that as far as cooling goes it did a great job. I know this as the temp reading from the Autronic air intake temp sensor read a steady 20-21 degrees. That meant nothing to me when I heard it but i was told it was a very good reading. The intercooler I used was from what I could see, very well made and used the better 'bar and plate' method of cooling. It was also of a reasonably large size, maybe even too large but I had over compensated at the time as i originally planned to up the boost later after engine rebuild.

As for what Mark has mentioned about the flow of the cooler I do not know the flow efficiency. Although I would hazard a guess that most of the flow efficiency is gained by having the right shape of end tanks on the cooler. I would expect that one bar and plate core is pretty much the same and as good as another bar and plate core. if you were to look at my old cooler which Elliot now has you will see that the shape of the end tanks seem to be very 'flow friendly' if you know what I mean.

I do stand to be corrected though....

20 -21 degrees is very good but it does depend on what the temperature is from the compressor, for example it may not be very high if the boost pressure is low.

It's an intersting subject (to me anyway :blink: ). The "bar and plate" designs are generally good but to confuse matters further there are different types of bar and plate designs. For example there are different ratios of bar to plate, different transfer tube volumes, some transfer tubes have no internal fins, some do have internal fins, and there are different densities of internal fins too. It can be a minefild for the uninitiated.

Cast end tanks are always better than fabricated end tanks because the internal radii can be optimised. We have also incorporated a special aerodynamic feature into our core which improves flow by 30%.

I hope this helps a little :)

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Aahh right...

so there can be a considerable difference in design for the core of the coolers then.

The car was only running about .55bar of boost at the time which isn't a lot by any means although due to the size of the cooler I expect that it took that amount of boost in it's stride.

The end tanks were cast aswell so at least that is one good sign.

Oh and the core did have internal fins too which should have a good effect on cooling but an adverse effect on flow.

suppose it all makes sense in the end.

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I got this when i bought my kit, the guy who i bought it from said it made quite a difference, i believe it got fitted by tdi too! Haven't got round to sorting something out for it yet, the only thing putting me off was taking off the brace along the front as wouldn't this decrease the structural integridity of the front end? I also seem to remember him saing you had to cut part of the bumper to get it in properl or something as well.

Opinions?

pic0017is1.jpg

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