Geometry.....?

[Gary Woodman]

Hi

As you know I am new to having a Lexus and you will all be glad to know it is now mine and is sitting outside my house as I type this!! I am thick and anything when it comes to cars so here goes....

My main question is I keep reading about the Geometry is a problem on the Lexus IS200s...is this correct? I haven't checked my tyre wear as they are brand new tyres fitted by the garage about a week before I picked up the car....but should I be checking the inside tyre wear? If there is a problem what can be done about it....because Lexus won't sort the Geometry will they? Any advice I would be glad of.

Thanks

Regards

Gary

[Rob]

hi gary,

you wont see the wear after a week, yor best option is pop along to tony at sts in watford http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/ he is the master and your car will be better for it!

or give him a quick call

[PiratePete]

Does WIM approve any garages in the Midlands to set the Geo to his spec? I don't need it doing at the moment I don't think (new tyres), but just for future reference?

[Continunity]

Have the Geo checked, it made a world of diffrence to the handling of my car.

[Tony-Bones]

Does WIM approve any garages in the Midlands to set the Geo to his spec? I don't need it doing at the moment I don't think (new tyres), but just for future reference?

Yes i do:- http://www.tdi-north.com/index.htm A very friendly competent team who master the complexities of chassis calibration.

[imyruff]

What do they actually do?

4 wheel alignment?

[Tony-Bones]

Hi

As you know I am new to having a Lexus and you will all be glad to know it is now mine and is sitting outside my house as I type this!! I am thick and anything when it comes to cars so here goes....

My main question is I keep reading about the Geometry is a problem on the Lexus IS200s...is this correct? I haven't checked my tyre wear as they are brand new tyres fitted by the garage about a week before I picked up the car....but should I be checking the inside tyre wear? If there is a problem what can be done about it....because Lexus won't sort the Geometry will they? Any advice I would be glad of.

Thanks

Regards

Gary

Hello. The reason you keep reading about the inner tyre wear problem is that Lexus (the manufacturer) miscalculated the front Geometry. The dealers are well aware of the problem but are not allowed to deviate from the positions written by Lexus... So when the wear appears the calibration is re-set with the best intentions by the dealer but incorrectly to stop the wear.

wim re-wrote the positions for LOC members some years ago after the Admin looked for help with this issue. once the positions were proven they were released into the public domain, they are available here in the clubs 'knowledge base'.

Obviously some calibrations need additional maths to allow compliance, even more so it the chassis is modified....

Hope this helps.

What do they actually do?

4 wheel alignment?

No 3D alignment... The descriptions and actual measurements are confusing, here is an explanation.

Various methods are described to encourage you to resolve tyre wear or handling issues, additionally members in forums are keen to advise but often fall victim to the same miss-information, read carefully and stay ahead of 'alignment the big con'

Tracking/Alignment

Is linear, this measurement shows no concern for any other angle. This form of measurement is the most common in the World and the most damaging.

Angles measured 1

Four wheel Alignment

Uses the rear wheels as a scale to centre the steering rack.... then the front toe..... this is better but is assuming the rear is centred.

Angles measured 2

Four wheel Laser Alignment

Same as above.... be wise!

Geometry/Primary

Will image the exact rear centre line to permit a centred steering wheel.. additionally the front and rear camber positions will be measured. This is the most common form of Geometry and i consider this as 'basic'

Angles measured 8

Full Geometry/primary and Secondary

Is absolute but harder to understand. Few places even with the equipment measure the Secondary angles, these include...

Castor

KPI/SJI/SAI

Scrub radius

included angle

TOOT/Ackerman

Delta curve

and so on

Most areas that involve rapid tyre wear or handling issues need to be read from the 'Secondary' data, even more important if the car has been modified or for diagnostics after an accident.

Angles measured 15+

Not easy reading indeed, millions of pounds change hands every day for 'Alignment', a need to be wise could save you £ssss

One more thing to make the 'blood boil'.. The Primary and secondary Geometry has a customer destination?

1: Primary is the 'dumb' customer version

2: Secondary is withheld unless requested and named the 'Technicians version.

(Topic taken from the wim forum)

[PiratePete]

Does WIM approve any garages in the Midlands to set the Geo to his spec? I don't need it doing at the moment I don't think (new tyres), but just for future reference?

Yes i do:- http://www.tdi-north.com/index.htm A very friendly competent team who master the complexities of chassis calibration.

Excellent, my parents live in Warrington. I'll keep an eye on my tyre wear and if it shows signs of the problem I'll drop it into them. Approx how much would it cost me to get the geo set by TDI North?

[StainlessSteelRat]

Cool, I didn't realise TDi North were in Warrington. Thats where I work. I'll be booking myself in in the near future.

Smooth with a capital smoo.

S.

Does WIM approve any garages in the Midlands to set the Geo to his spec? I don't need it doing at the moment I don't think (new tyres), but just for future reference?

Yes i do:- http://www.tdi-north.com/index.htm A very friendly competent team who master the complexities of chassis calibration.

[Rikos]

I dont suppose there are any garages in the East Midlands that WIM would approve?

How much is the cost of getting the Geometry set?

[Yaumeister]

I had mine done at STS Watford by Dr Tony, cost me £100 and I think that would be the typical price. Get a FREE fine tune too after 2000 miles, which for me is soon.

[PiratePete]

I had mine done at STS Watford by Dr Tony, cost me £100 and I think that would be the typical price. Get a FREE fine tune too after 2000 miles, which for me is soon.

Doesn't sound too bad. Thanks for the info :)

[Tony-Bones]

I dont suppose there are any garages in the East Midlands that WIM would approve?

How much is the cost of getting the Geometry set?

The cost varies. There is no global agreement unfortunately. I have no franchises in the East Mids at the moment but i can support you? If you can find a destination i will set the parameters in advance of your visit and ensure the results comply to the wim positions... For the LOC club members this support costs £0

[MacRS200]

Excellent, my parents live in Warrington. I'll keep an eye on my tyre wear and if it shows signs of the problem I'll drop it into them. Approx how much would it cost me to get the geo set by TDI North?

My advice would be forget watching tyre wear just get it done, I can guarantee that the geo will be wrong!

Apart from anything else you will notice a big difference in the handling of the car.

[Tony-Bones]

Excellent, my parents live in Warrington. I'll keep an eye on my tyre wear and if it shows signs of the problem I'll drop it into them. Approx how much would it cost me to get the geo set by TDI North?

My advice would be forget watching tyre wear just get it done, I can guarantee that the geo will be wrong!

Apart from anything else you will notice a big difference in the handling of the car.

Wise words indeed.

[MacRS200]

Excellent, my parents live in Warrington. I'll keep an eye on my tyre wear and if it shows signs of the problem I'll drop it into them. Approx how much would it cost me to get the geo set by TDI North?

My advice would be forget watching tyre wear just get it done, I can guarantee that the geo will be wrong!

Apart from anything else you will notice a big difference in the handling of the car.

Wise words indeed.

Why thank you Dr Bones.

When I get the poxy bathroom finished and get round to fitting the N/S lower ball joint I have in the porch I will give you a call and book a check up. The handling just feels all wrong since I did the O/S one

[Tony-Bones]

Excellent, my parents live in Warrington. I'll keep an eye on my tyre wear and if it shows signs of the problem I'll drop it into them. Approx how much would it cost me to get the geo set by TDI North?

My advice would be forget watching tyre wear just get it done, I can guarantee that the geo will be wrong!

Apart from anything else you will notice a big difference in the handling of the car.

Wise words indeed.

Why thank you Dr Bones.

When I get the poxy bathroom finished and get round to fitting the N/S lower ball joint I have in the porch I will give you a call and book a check up. The handling just feels all wrong since I did the O/S one

What can i say A wim project car............ no fees.............years of research............ And we was beaten by a bathroom tap... :o ...... Sort it!. I will be interested to see how things have 'relaxed' over time

[IRLRs200]

Does the Altezza suffer from the same problem? I doubt anywhere in Ireland would be able to sort it properly. The handling on mine isnt the best so maybe something is out

[MacRS200]

What can i say A wim project car............ no fees.............years of research............ And we was beaten by a bathroom tap... :o ...... Sort it!. I will be interested to see how things have 'relaxed' over time

Hum, Geo check up free...........Divorce 1000's

Tis some 40,000 miles now since the first geo on the Tezza, will be down there soon mate.

Does the Altezza suffer from the same problem? I doubt anywhere in Ireland would be able to sort it properly. The handling on mine isnt the best so maybe something is out

Yup same running gear = the same problems. Handling should be really tight and positive so would suggest that something is indeed out.

[IRLRs200]

Yup same running gear = the same problems. Handling should be really tight and positive so would suggest that something is indeed out.

no i wouldnt call it tight really! its due for the MOT next week, hopefully that might show something. Have to try and find somewhere over here that can do it

[chandru]

WIM recommended chemix as well to me..whcih is where i took it. in birmingham...

[Rikos]

I dont suppose there are any garages in the East Midlands that WIM would approve?

How much is the cost of getting the Geometry set?

The cost varies. There is no global agreement unfortunately. I have no franchises in the East Mids at the moment but i can support you? If you can find a destination i will set the parameters in advance of your visit and ensure the results comply to the wim positions... For the LOC club members this support costs £0

Thats fantastic thank you very much will have a search for anyone in the local area that maybe able to check my geometry.

[Diapason]

its due for the MOT next week, hopefully that might show something.

It probably won't.

Have to try and find somewhere over here that can do it

Good luck with that. My attempts weren't successful and I ultimately gave up. I was told by "the best place" that they couldn't get the castor angle right because something was bent. Given how unsymmetrical they'd left some of the other settings I still to this day have no idea whether anything is really bent or not, or whether they just didn't know what they were doing. They'd all the right machines, but I question the expertise. At some point, I intend to drive over to Mr. Bones, although maybe I'll wait till I get a new car. I'll make a weekend of it.

Si

[IRLRs200]

Good luck with that. My attempts weren't successful and I ultimately gave up. I was told by "the best place" that they couldn't get the castor angle right because something was bent. Given how unsymmetrical they'd left some of the other settings I still to this day have no idea whether anything is really bent or not, or whether they just didn't know what they were doing. They'd all the right machines, but I question the expertise. At some point, I intend to drive over to Mr. Bones, although maybe I'll wait till I get a new car. I'll make a weekend of it.

Si

Ye thats what i remember hearing before, if thats the case, a roadtrip to Dr. Bones might be in order all right during the summer! I'll keep looking around, might get lucky! Where did u try of here Si as a matter of interest?

[Diapason]

IRLRs200, I sent you a PM.