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Hi everyone. I am a newby here and a non Lexus owner and looking to change my car.

I very much like the fresh look of the new IS and decided to put it on the list of possibles.To that end I test drove an 07 IS220d SE yesterday and what a dissapointment.I understand it has 170bhp but it was so sluggish, ( have you tried the A4 with 170bhp, they really fly).For a Lexus it just did not match up to expectations from a modern diesel.

I much prefer diesels but decided to try the 250SE L auto back to back with the diesel.I must say I was totally sold on it but my problem is mpg.I travel several thousand miles in France each year and with diesel about £1 a gallon there the different mpg can hit the pocket quite badly.

This post is not knocking Lexus but a request for advice.

From you diesel owners out there please tell me is the sport any more responsive and how economical? my test car was showing 34mpg from the last fillup and the salesman said that was pretty much what to expect even though the car had just returned from Gloucester which must be 200 miles from here and included motorway driving.

From you 250 auto drivers can you tell me what real life mpg I can expect, I am trying to convince myself it wont be much more expensive than the diesel.The test car was 07 reg with 2500miles and was showing 34 mpg as well.

Any friendly advice very welcome, thanks in advance.

Al.

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From you 250 auto drivers can you tell me what real life mpg I can expect, I am trying to convince myself it wont be much more expensive than the diesel.The test car was 07 reg with 2500miles and was showing 34 mpg as well.

If it helps, my 250 SE-L Auto complete a round trip of 400 miles last week with average 34 mpg, 78mph :blush: . Mixed urban, shorter journeys I get 28 mpg on average without attempting to be economical :whistling: .

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I had a IS220d for the day last week. To be honest I was gobsmacked at the lack of power / lack of smoothness and the engine clatter at idle. First gear pullaways were a nightmare (lumpy),second gear pullaways from rolling resulted in two stalls on major roundabouts. Slow moving traffic was very uncomfortable.

At 70/80 it found its comfort zone but select 6th and suddenly the car was groaning like i dont know what. It still didnt seem comfortable at 80 in 6th so why have a 6th? The engine just didnt seem in tune with the car.Does anyone actually 'buy' these cars, i presume they are mostly company or Lease vehicles.

The totally unnerving thing was that at work, amongst others i drive an astra sri cdti.These things retail at about 17 k. This thing absolutely puts the IS220d to shame in relation to engine performance/response.(very quick) You can floor it all day long and the fuel gauge doesnt move much,brilliant fun,exceptional performance... but its a vauxhall :crybaby: and things still fall off,and strange warning lights come on..and go off :blush:

before i returned the 220d i stuck in a couple of gallons just to get the slug back to the dealer. The gauge didnt move and likewise the computer...so much so i thought the pump hadnt delivered any fuel,drove 35 miles with the dash telling me I had 0 miles left.

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It seems my test car was not the exception then, why bother with the diesel if there is no financial gains to be made over petrol.I can see why there is no auto option,it would probably not get to the higher gears at all.

By the way I meant in my post diesel in France is about £1 a gallon cheaper than petrol not £1 a gallon(I wish)

Some people may say if you are prepared to spend £27K on a car why worry about the running cost, but to me they are important, the less Gordon Brown takes off me the better.

Al

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It seems my test car was not the exception then, why bother with the diesel if there is no financial gains to be made over petrol.I can see why there is no auto option,it would probably not get to the higher gears at all.

Forget the 220D, it was brought in to satisfy the fleet market in Europe and wasn't very well thought out at all. The engine seemed to work OK in the Avensis though.

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Well guys - I did actually buy mine myself, having driven all of the competition (except the 170 PDI Audi - not launched then).

I had an A4 130PDi previously which I still maintian is probably lb for £ still the best value for money Diesel you can find...but found the Lexus Diesel to completely destroy that and anything else in this bracket for sheer stupendous value for money. Add the allegedly excellent customer satisfaction - and for me spending my own cash I had no option...nothing else made sense...also being a newer model, it was bound to better at holding value...

Anyway, to answer your question, the Sport is better to drive, but your economy will not be that great - expect lows 40's in the Sport at best. My SE does give me low to high 40's, but town driving desimates economy...

For the first few 000 miles, it is sluggish, lethargic and "heavy" feeling...I can't deny that, and mileage and running in does improve things somewhat. Driving a diesel with so much narrow banded torque needs some getting used to, but it is the quickest when already rolling of anything in the bracket...true to say though that you can't race many cars at the lights...but stick it in 4th at 50, floor it and see which sports car can keep up...it's a full second faster to 75 than the 320d.

It's true that the Audi does feel much fleeter and has a flatter torque delivery, but there is a new A4 due soon and so I ruled it out - else I would not have looked at the Lexus. Also, from an economy perspective, the A4 170 will give you 1 to mpg more - ignore what the Trip computer states - do a manual calculation. I have tried both cars back to back...and the A4 still humbles me, but given the choice overall my choice was the right one.

The 320d was without doubt a better drivers package - excellent steering and much better use of 163bhp/gearing set it apart, but to add Satnav, leather, decent stereo/6CD, Bluetooth and 17" wheels would have been knocking on £30k list price...mags rave about BMW precise gearbox - rubbish!! The car has a long throw rubbery gear box...feels very old fashioned...

If I could turn back time (Cher) I would not have bought it - but got the IS250SE Auto with MM - it is superb!! It's the best Auto in this bracket...

PS - We keep getting told that the Lexus IS220d is Euro5 compliant, and it's that which makes it feel this way...who knows. There are no other Euro 5 diesels to compare it to...

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im the same as Jambo, i bought a 220d with my own money,

i feel i was slightly mis sold the car regarding mpg. i had a is 250 for 3/4 weeks whilst my old is 200 was in for repairs, i was getting around 28/29 mpg from the is 250, when i decided to upgrade to the new is i was given the impression that the deisel would return mid 40s in mpg although it would require a little running in to acheive this, i have had the car 8 months and it has 8000 miles on the clock and has had the ecu re map and iam only getting 29/30 mpg.

i wish i had gone for the petrol.

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I too bought the IS220 with my own money. I don't like the gearing, but I'm getting used to it - the rule of thumb being; drive one gear lower than you would normally use for a given situation. The car has done 7000+ miles and is getting better all the time. Overall fuel consumption is sitting at 36.7 mpg. I've achieved 47 mpg but that was a really boring drive.

Overall, when on the move and in the power band, the car is responsive and fast. I'd say it's a car that needs to be driven (as opposed to piloted, y'know just sitting there and pressing the pedals) to get the best out of it performance wise.

I don't regret buying the car but I am still considering swapping it for an IS250.

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The sport is more responsive as it has better gear ratios. This does make it less economical though. I only get 33-40 mpg commuting depending on where I'm working and the best I've got is 43.5 on a long distance journey. It's significantly faster than my old IS200 and when you're crusing its quiet and smooth enough. If you want quieter, smoother and faster then yes you'd have to go for an IS250. I'm not sure I'd want to now though - I'd miss that awesome torque.

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It seems my test car was not the exception then, why bother with the diesel if there is no financial gains to be made over petrol.I can see why there is no auto option,it would probably not get to the higher gears at all.

By the way I meant in my post diesel in France is about £1 a gallon cheaper than petrol not £1 a gallon(I wish)

Some people may say if you are prepared to spend £27K on a car why worry about the running cost, but to me they are important, the less Gordon Brown takes off me the better.

Al

Here in Ireland Petrol E1.19 litre ...Diesel E1.10 litre My last car was E200 Merc Petrol average 30 mpg my current consumption and price differential in fuel Petrol vs Diesel means the IS220D is 38% more economical in fuel alone.

COST PETROL PER MILE E0.18

COST DIESEL PER MILE E0.11

62% of the cost 38% cheaper

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I too bought the IS220 with my own money. I don't like the gearing, but I'm getting used to it - the rule of thumb being; drive one gear lower than you would normally use for a given situation. The car has done 7000+ miles and is getting better all the time. Overall fuel consumption is sitting at 36.7 mpg. I've achieved 47 mpg but that was a really boring drive.

Overall, when on the move and in the power band, the car is responsive and fast. I'd say it's a car that needs to be driven (as opposed to piloted, y'know just sitting there and pressing the pedals) to get the best out of it performance wise.

Hey, I thought I wrote this! :)

I agree 100%

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I too bought the IS220 with my own money. I don't like the gearing, but I'm getting used to it - the rule of thumb being; drive one gear lower than you would normally use for a given situation. The car has done 7000+ miles and is getting better all the time. Overall fuel consumption is sitting at 36.7 mpg. I've achieved 47 mpg but that was a really boring drive.

Overall, when on the move and in the power band, the car is responsive and fast. I'd say it's a car that needs to be driven (as opposed to piloted, y'know just sitting there and pressing the pedals) to get the best out of it performance wise.

Hey, I thought I wrote this! :)

I agree 100%

I think you did say something similar a while back Matus. I probably absorbed it at the time and started practising what you preached. Good call!

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Thanks for the feedback to my original post.

I dont think a 220d would suit me, I am not the sort of person who wants to be constantly stirring the gearbox especially on motorways.

My current car is an Audi A4 130 sport with multitronic gearbox and although slightly slower than the manual it is still very responsive in any situation.The mpg average I get is 40 mixed driving and the best I get on long motorway runs is 42, nowhere near the makers claims of 50plus but still pretty acceptable.

It seems to me there are a number of 220d owners who wish they had gone for 250's and my first impressions concerning economy and performance seems to be about right. I have researched on this site and there seems to be plenty of owners not happy with the economy.

As I stated before I am not knocking Lexus, and am now seriously thinking of a 250 auto.

Al

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Audi al,

People (including myself) have been hard on the IS220d - only because it's different. It's all relative and once you get used to driving the 220d, it is fine. It's not the most economical, and not the fastest, but unless you're heavy footed, it'll be more economical than a 250 Auto.

If you're coming from an Auto (CVT/Multi) Audi, then you are starting with a clean sheet, and you might find the gear change heavier on the diesel - but compared to a CVT/MT box, the IS250 Auto will tick all the box's for you. For a non CVT everyone is amazed at the smoothness of the 250, and the economy isn't bad at all.

Ther are loads of die hard Lexus Fan's on this site, but don't let that cloud your thoughts.

It's a good car, and like any other it has it's "issues", but in the grand schema these are not as bad as some of the others' problems...the press have been very hard on the car - they have taken any (even minor) minus's and blown them out of proprtion. It's the usual stuff - the germans always get a better write up...because they think that is what Jo Public wants to see...

There are only 2 main problems with the IS - a lack of an Auto diesel and the slightly less space in the boot area (and slightly in the back seat area too).

Other than that, as an overall package, nothing comes close (especially VFM). Especially if it is your own money...

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Audi al,

People (including myself) have been hard on the IS220d - only because it's different. It's all relative and once you get used to driving the 220d, it is fine. It's not the most economical, and not the fastest, but unless you're heavy footed, it'll be more economical than a 250 Auto.

If you're coming from an Auto (CVT/Multi) Audi, then you are starting with a clean sheet, and you might find the gear change heavier on the diesel - but compared to a CVT/MT box, the IS250 Auto will tick all the box's for you. For a non CVT everyone is amazed at the smoothness of the 250, and the economy isn't bad at all.

Ther are loads of die hard Lexus Fan's on this site, but don't let that cloud your thoughts.

It's a good car, and like any other it has it's "issues", but in the grand schema these are not as bad as some of the others' problems...the press have been very hard on the car - they have taken any (even minor) minus's and blown them out of proprtion. It's the usual stuff - the germans always get a better write up...because they think that is what Jo Public wants to see...

There are only 2 main problems with the IS - a lack of an Auto diesel and the slightly less space in the boot area (and slightly in the back seat area too).

Other than that, as an overall package, nothing comes close (especially VFM). Especially if it is your own money...

Thanks Jamboo

I think if there was an auto diesel option that would be worth considering definately, outright speed and acceleration is not so important but economy and responsiveness is. I have no doubt the 220d is responsive if you are happy to keep gearchanging, but most people like diesel for the opposite reason that is that you can plod along happily in a high gear and still get that steady pull when you accelerate without changing down.

Al

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I must say this again: I'm extremely happy with the mpg I'm getting with my 220d Sport. My overall mpg is sticking to 46 mpg with 3000 miles on the clock. For comparison, I get very similar readings with a 2004 Corolla 1.6 petrol. The Corolla is extremely frugal for a petrol car, but only manages to get the same mpg with about a 1000 pounds less weight and a lot less power. I haven't driven the IS 250, but I doubt I would get anywhere near this mpg with one of those.

As for the responsiveness, the Sport is a lot better than the regular I tested. It's still not a rocket off the line, but once you get it going it's very strong. If you don't absolutely have to have an automatic transmission, I would say buy an IS 220d Sport!

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I keep reading the responses to this post and feel that I must add my 2 pence for what its worth.

I like many others have bought a 220d with my own money. It was purchased for the wife to take the kids to playgroup, shopping and all the other women do when we are hard at work (not quite worked out what it is yet, but it always seems to cost me money).

As fuel economy was not really an issue and she did not want an auto it didn’t make any difference if I bought a 220 or 250.

What I do find concerning is that many people do slate the 220d both owners and critics some of which I can agree with but many I personally don't. Like Jamboo pointed out

We keep getting told that the Lexus IS220d is Euro5 compliant, and it's that which makes it feel this way...who knows. There are no other Euro 5 diesels to compare it to
. So if that is the case it is going to be different and this could probably just be normal of a EuroV diesel but only time will tell.

I agree it’s not perfect by any means but the thing that really p :tsktsk: ss me off is the flat spot when trying to pull out of a junction or island quickly (oooo so many near misses). I have been informed by Lexus that there is an ECU re-map to hopefully cure this on the way.

The car has now just turned 2k which 95% is very sort trips (2 to 4 miles) and town driving with odd motorway trip down south. The MPG average is showing 31.9 which I am happy with (wife couldn’t care less), but did manage to achieve 48MPG on a good run.

Having changed from a Jaguar 2.0d (EuroIV averaging around 33/34MPG) to the 220d the power is far far better, more responsive and from 40 to 70 ish (or may be just a little more :winky: ) is where is shows its true colours. Oh and value for money it’s in a class of its own.

I just feel that unfair to compare everybody’s MPG both with diesel and petrol as it all depends on the who's driving, the way they drive and the area they drive in i.e. country, town, motorway etc. and the quality of fuel used.

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Thou speaketh sense

It is true - both cars are very different and only a prospective purchaser will ever know what is right for him or her. I have been told by someone close to the trade (via this forum - lips are sealed) that for Euro5 these numpties could become the norm, so we are merely pathfinders and other cars/engines will fair the same fate. I suppose those oothers could be modified to stop this happening...leaving us out in the cold...

Lets wait and see...in the meantime, anyone still considering should go and drive both and decide for themselves....that's the only way to be sure....for sure

As far as the flat spot goes, it's a problem...an annoying one and any fix would be great...I now crank to 3000rpm and drop the clutch for a quick get away - it's fast enough to just spin the rears (so watch out in the wet)...but assures you a swiftish getaway. But you do have to prepare for those brown pants moments...

Overall, the gearing for first needs to be taller, and 6th a tad shorter - it would be fine and your economy might not suffer...but the flat spot in first then could be more pronounced...

Oh well...if it's the diesel you want go get a Sport!!

PS - I once drove a A4 M/Tronic 1.9TDi - courtesy car - compared to my manual A4 it had what felt like a zero flatspot - the engine and gearbox worked quite well together, though the constant humming was a distraction...I think a conventional Auto in the 220d would have worked really well...shame Lexus discounted it...

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I have no doubt the 220d is responsive if you are happy to keep gearchanging,

opposite!

because of long gearing you don't need to change gears so often.

In city driving I need only 3 gears, while standard car (also IS220d sport) needs 4.

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opposite!

because of long gearing you don't need to change gears so often.

In city driving I need only 3 gears, while standard car (also IS220d sport) needs 4.

I disagree. You don't have to use more gears with the Sport if you don't want to. You just have the option to do so, if you like.

Also, I think the Sport is just as economical as the other versions, if you drive it smoothly and in the right gear. That is, unless your doing 75+ mph.

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I disagree. You don't have to use more gears with the Sport if you don't want to. You just have the option to do so, if you like.

I think the revs at 50kph in 3rd in my car are at about 1.600, which is comfortable, beacause the consumption is low and the response of engine is good.

Sport is at about 2.000 then? This means that the response is even better but also the consumption is higher. So of course you can stay on third, but if you want to be as economical as non-sport, you have to change to 4th. Thats my belief.

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I think the revs at 50kph in 3rd in my car are at about 1.600, which is comfortable, beacause the consumption is low and the response of engine is good.

Sport is at about 2.000 then? This means that the response is even better but also the consumption is higher. So of course you can stay on third, but if you want to be as economical as non-sport, you have to change to 4th. Thats my belief.

That's true. But it's possible to go from 2nd straight to 4th with the Sport.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Guy's,

I traded a 2.2Diesel Honda civic ( absolute flyer) for my new 220d, if you want a fast economical car buy a Honda.

If you want a refined first class piece of engineering and build quaility buy the lexus. As for performance, you just gotta get used to the different gear set up, if you drive it right, it can go real quick, as for MPG, i average 37, and i aint no vicar

Basha

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I drove an Audi A4 diesel multitronic once and found it positively dangerous. Trying to nip out at junctions and roundabouts means pressing the accelerator to the floor and waiting...and waiting...and then panicking when the car pauses while the gap you were trying to get into gets smaller and smaller. Eventually it goes but at the cost of a few more grey hairs. I experienced the same with an A6 2.7TDI multitronic too. I came back from London in our A4 130bhpTDi yesterday and I managed to get an average of 50mpg with the cruise set at 80mph - but that's the best I've got - normally it sticks around 43mpg.

And it still sounds like a tractor. Give me an IS250 auto anyday.

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