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Is F V New M3


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Rsarin...why so pedantic? My IS250 was weighed on a calibrated rig last Saturday and it was actually 1557 kg, but the tank was almost empty so add on 50KG = 1607kg. I'll put another 28 kg in the boot if it'll make you happy :whistling:

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Here's the article http://cars.uk.msn.com/Reviews/article.asp...umentid=5449229

Don't get me wrong I think the New M3 looks very nice and has some powerful figures but I would take the IS F EVERYTIME.

I wrote on here a while ago that Lexus re-wrote the history books some 18 years ago, amd I told you, they are about to the same again with the IS F.

Looking at the figures, the IS F beats the M3 in every area, and I know that Lexus usually under promise and over deliver.

The IS F is going to be one hell of a car!

I would not make a comment like until it's been tested...

Just consider the IS220d, on paper it blasted every diesel in sight. In reality, it's only competitive in one area - 50-70 acceleration...otherwise the gearing, engine etc make it a bit limp...

Having driven some quite fast Audi's and BMW's, I would say you really have to drive a car - paper figures don't count for squat in my book. A Merc C55 is aweful to drive in MHO, but sounds great. An S4 is positively glued around bends and the sheer grip and V8 muscle make it formidable...

Even an Audi S4, though no where near as fast on paper as the ISf, left a smile on my face which lasted much longer than the one left by the GS450h (similar perfromance). It's not just straight line speed, but steering feedback and overall driveability "by the seat of the pants" feel which is the key factor...A normal A4 has limp steering, but the S4 is much better...

A 535d is stupendously good - seriously smooth and the power surges and surges...again not as quick but incredibly good to drive...

You have to remember that the Germans have years and years of a headstart making high performance cars, Lexus is, lets face it, still new in the game...a Supra Twin Turbo doesn't count... :lol:

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Tango im not being pedantic,just looking at factory std cars in the discussion here.The IS250 weighs in at between 1590-1635kg,the e46 M3 at 1570kg and the new M3 at 1655kg.My M3 weighs less because of a few weight saving mods,like new cats,wheels,etc but really what has that got to do with the discussion,seeing as we are comparing factory std weight.What your rig calculated is irrelevant as is the weight of my car.The comparisons are also pointless as the is250 is not up for discussion here.

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....BMW are also launching a range a twin turbo petrol engines, starting with the BMW135i Coupe - a pocket rocket which is 3.0l 6cyl - 0-60 in 5.3s and top speed of 155 (limited)...

Do you guys really think they don't know what Lexus are doing with the IS-f. Just expect the M3 to be as quick or quicker...

I've also heard (needs verifying) that there will be a M3 CSL - with...wait for it...the 504bhp engine out of the M5 and M6, with less weight and a new 7spd SMG box - capable of 0-60 in a predicted/estimated 4.0s...and gear changes at the rate of 0.1s inspired by F1 technology...this is from a BMW mad friend coming back from Germany...he went on a factory visit there from some racing club he is a member of...and they mentioned this in passing with tongue in cheek...

I think Lexus will have to do well to compete there...For all the diesel lovers, a new 323d is on the cards and due to come here soon - twin turbo 1995cc Diesel, 230bhp! 0-60 in 7.2s and 150mph.... and 42mpg.... (I've been saying for ages that the IS220d should have 2 turbo's - that way Lag would have a thing of the past...)

I can't wait...the battle is gonna be fierce and we as buyers can only win...

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I think you're all talking of these new models as trackcars, but they're essentially designed for public roads and we all know how restrictive these are today with traffic and speed restrictions so what's the point?

Well I guess it comes down to the 'mines bigger than yours' syndrome so it's basically willy waving.

My IS250 is well capable of losing me my license to drive on the road, and I'm certainly not considering buying either an RS4, IS-F or any M derivative for a track car. I'd get more enjoyment from a Lotus Exige.

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My IS250 is well capable of losing me my license to drive on the road, and I'm certainly not considering buying either an RS4, IS-F or any M derivative for a track car. I'd get more enjoyment from a Lotus Exige.

Understand where you're coming from, but the idea of this type of car is that they are at home on the road, and also on the track - yes they're probably not the best at either, but the same car can make you very happy in both circumstances.

I'd expect the Lexus to tend towards the road side of things, whereas the BMW will probably tend more to the track side......

We don't really need to discuss racing pedigree - F1 clearly displays the difference between Toyota and BMW. BMW have only been in F1 as a sole player a few years but look at how much they've accomplished.........

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The M3/RS4 are designed to be both great road cars and great track cars at the same time,its a balance between the two.the exige is designed to just be a track car,which its great at but its still slower around the ring than an RS4 or an M3,so it wouldnt be that much more enjoyable,after all that is the ultimate circuit on which to pitch all cars against each other.As far as willy waving is concerned,id rather not thanks.

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The proof of the pudding is in the blah blah blah etc etc

Forget track days, forget ultimate speed, forget ultimate acceleration, forget racing weights, all these are meaningless in the real world, the real test of any car is how it performs on normal roads in normal days use

How many of us really have the ability, the will, or the desire to get to 60 in the brochure published nano sconds every time we hit the pedal, i doubt if 5% of drivers ever actually achieve the 0-60 time or even the top speed of their car

The M3 is a very good and very fast car, so will be the F, both will go fantastically fast, handle like they are on rails, and have great seats, the real test will be in how it makes you feel at the end of the day

My GS300 isn't the fastest car I have driven, it is not even the fastest car in my drive, it is not even the best handling car on the drive, but with the combination of all the elements, the comfort, the quietness and the non fussy way it does it all makes me feel good when I drive it, my friends M5 beemer makes me feel like cack when I am a passanger, our cossie ride is rubbish but it goes like the wind and will drop a ferrari at the lights and that is 20 years old, my daughters Punto runs rings around the GS on roundabouts, our 1984 Nissan pick up has a bigger boot and has never once broken down

Top gear ranting on and on about how a M3 is 0.02 seconds over a 2 mile track than an R4 or an F is usless input in reality, unless you are going to enter touring cars world series next year

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Tango's right, it's wally waving

But, when you jump in a car and you feel that you're driving by the seat of your pants at normal A road speeds, or when you overtake you can in a safe flash, then it makes driving all the more emjoyable.

I've yearned for an RS4 ever since I drove the S4, but I know it would never see the tarmac of a track. But it's about having a dream, and a mid life crisis, both of which I'm embarking upon :yahoo:

Just to put things into perspective, a mate had a Fiat X19 many years ago. It was cack from quality perspective, but to drive it gave you that "seat of the pants" feel. Even though it wasn't terribly quick, it made you feel that you were going quick...

Nowadays, cars are all way too refined, Lexus more then most, so even though we all criticise the german cars, their stiff ride, feely steering etc do make them a drivers choice. That's the bottom line IMHO, and when you add bags of torque like you get in an S4 (and no doubt an M3, a 535d or RS4) the normal day to day effortless driving experience, allied to phenomenal grip and a wonderfull V8 engine sound just add to the pleasure of feeling alive...

That's what I believe fast petrol head cars should be about. The IS-f may or not satisfy these things, and only time will tell. The point is that whilst Lexus are developing the IS-f the competition are hotting up too.

I also believe from my German friend (NBLG's inside contact may be able to help and verify) that Audi are stopping the current RS4 to bring forward the production of the new RS4, which is likely to be launched 12 months ahead of when it was originally planned. Must be something to with Rallying and homologation...with Audi wanting to get back into Rallying...?? WHo knows...

Watch this space...

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I thought they were stopping production of the RS-4 so it couldn't be compared with the M3.......:P

Seriously though, I think they're stopping it to make way for the RS5 and possible RS6 - in some ways makes good business sense to have no internal competition and still keep the cars exclusive......

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just thought id put my 2 pence worth in here :tomato: i think you are all missing the point here :tomato:

fact: the is f is a masssive step in the right direction for lexus

fact: any m3 has always been an awsome car

fact: audi rs4 deserves respect

what i mean is ive worked on, loved, owned bmws for years and if somebody had said to me a few years ago id prefer something made by the same company that made a corolla id have felt :sick: but would i swap my IS for an e46 would i :tsktsk: but an e60 :unsure: but would i then swap that for an IS F :P

keep the pressure up lexus,

keep battling bmw,

try harder audi

either way im gonna have me a nice car after this IS :D

am i wrong? :shifty:

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on another note i read the other day that Audi have stopped making the RS4 ready to launch a new car in the future.

whichever way we look at it...for those who have the cash there 3 quality cars to choose from! 4 if you include the new C class AMG cars!

Audi only makes one RS at a time, due to time/cost of there RS engineering guys.

The RS4 is a better car than the M3 by miles, but the beemer has the image behind it.

Its what the office worker witht their new build houses aspires to own.

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just thought id put my 2 pence worth in here :tomato: i think you are all missing the point here :tomato:

fact: the is f is a masssive step in the right direction for lexus

fact: any m3 has always been an awsome car

fact: audi rs4 deserves respect

what i mean is ive worked on, loved, owned bmws for years and if somebody had said to me a few years ago id prefer something made by the same company that made a corolla id have felt :sick: but would i swap my IS for an e46 would i :tsktsk: but an e60 :unsure: but would i then swap that for an IS F :P

keep the pressure up lexus,

keep battling bmw,

try harder audi

either way im gonna have me a nice car after this IS :D

am i wrong? :shifty:

Spot on Buddy...

The ISF whilst it has 4 doors and a boot, can't be compared to an M5 IMHO, which has 5 big seats and a massive boot (500litre+ compared to IS's 370litre) :whistling: it's a different league of car (next notch up) and I dare say would be overall a far far better car than an ISf...never driven either but the stats say it all...and the standard 5 series is better to drive overall then an IS...

Sitting on the fence a tad longer, and to repeat, the ISF will have 402ish BHP, compared to 457 for the new C Class AMG and 450+ for the RS5 and next revision of the RS4....plus the new M3 will be in that 450ish bracket no doubt. Just loads of interior kit can' make up for a 15% deficiency in power - 'cos that is what those cars are largely about!

Already the IS-f looks lower specc'd from a Technical "on the paper" perspective...so you got to wait and see - no one would want to be standing in a ISf next to the current RS4 at the lights knowing you have no chance!!

In the Q car brigade, a Badge, raw statistics and looks count for everything. It's where the M5 and the RS4 can't fail...it's posh boys way of having the Scooby .v. Evo argument...

The bottom line is that the cars have to win at the showroom, not on a road or track...so the facts and figures are more important than anything, with looks a close second...for that then the ISF will need 460+bhp to stand a clear chance, or it had better be sublime to drive....

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