Waiting For 57 Reg

[debgreg]

Hi All

I have now decided on a used IS250 SE or SEL auto with MM. My question is,will waiting for the new reg to come out in sept have any bearing on availabilty and/or price?

Thanx

[Lex Bhoy]

I just traded in a 54 Plate TT and to be honest the only difference in price between a 54 & 04 was £300 according to What Car.

Garage would have lowered trade in by £500 if I waited till Sept.

Pick up 220SE on Saturday, one piece of advice is shop around I ended up getting a brand new 220 for the same price as a pre registered one. Trade in price is £12,350 and costing me £9950 to change. :D

Happy Days..

[purplebadger]

It really does pay to shop around. Approach as many dealerships as you can, not just local ones, because a significant saving can often justify a longish trip to collect etc.

Like Lex Bhoy I obtained a new car for less than a pre-registered but if I had waited a month for the next registration plate the reduction in price on my trade- in was simply not worth waiting.

Its all a balance of cost at the end of the day coupled with how much time you are willing to put into shopping around.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

I let them take my PEX 9 weeks early - saved me £700!

[debgreg]

Thanx for that. I have been quoted (best deal) £24 850 for a 56 plate (9,000miles) Liverpool Lexus bringing it up from Oxford, them saying I would have to comit to a car I haven't seen .

I have looked at DTD and I am now waying up if its best to pay that bit extra for a new model and get the exact colour spec etc . their quote was just under £27K on the road. I have always avoided buying new as I hate the initial depreciation (usually buy about 6mths old) however this will be my first time spending so much on a car. The other thing doing it this way, I will have to get rid of my own car privately?

All help suggestions gratefully received

thanx

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Nope! This what you do:

You get the best possible price from DTD, go to your local dealer, and then haggle like mad. Not only are they likely to match your price, but give you a PEX too...

It's worked for me in the last 3 cars I have bought. And normally they won't give you a shyte PEX price either - you'll get what your car is worth. What you won't get is a free Lexus Teddy, golfing brolley, servcing plan, Supagard or Watch!! But hey, they can keep that and give you a decent discount, that's what I say!

Remember - with DTD it's UK dealers selling the cars anyway. The chances are that your local Lexus dealer is part of a bigger group, like Sytner, or Inchcape etc. They must all sell through it already...

Try it - you'll be surprised. If they say NO, walk away and wait...they'll call you! Or try the next nearest dealership. I went to 3 dealerships...and it was worth it. I test drove different spec's at each one, and took the salemans name and card etc...showed that all to my local who immediately matched it as I had my cheque book in hand...

Once you have an idea of your budget etc, don't be scared to call a localish dealer armed with Credit card and even agree to put down a deposit over the phone subject to them agreeing a PEX price...they all want sales and will do anything. Remember a sale at low profit is better than no sale for a sales bod.

The other thing to remember is that they will have to sell a certain quota of cars to hit a target. SO they sometimes register cars as pre-reg/courtesy cars, but you shouldn't have to pay the VAT. So, a '56 plater should be at least 17.5% cheaper than the best price for a new one from DTD...it's logical.

CAUTION THO' - You'll be lucky to get it at that price though, 'cos they will have paid the VAT and will expect you to pay it too, though strictly speaking they can't pay that to the Tax man (it's already been paid by them once when it was new - I believe that private cars only attract VAT when first registered). You can try and bargain with them, or go for a new car...

PS - my 220d hadn't even been launched, but they immediately matched the DTD price and gave me a decent PEX for my old car on the proviso that I gave in my old car early....We have 2 cars so we could live with one for a few weeks and agreed...

[Parthiban]

I believe that private cars only attract VAT when first registered). You can try and bargain with them, or go for a new car...

Surely that can't be true? As a VAT registered business, they don't pay VAT on their purchases (as it is a business vehicle, not a personal one), just on their sales - so effectively they would have purchased the car at cost price, but when they sell it on, they would have to pay VAT on the vehicle, and this is paid for by the purchaser.

IMO it is not correct to say that a pre-reg car should have it's VAT knocked off, because for as long as it is "VAT qualifying", it is liable for VAT.

The only thing I'm not sure about is what the criteria are for a car to be "VAT qualifying" - I've only ever seen it on nearly new cars so I'd assume age is a factor.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

True for business's where the car "has not been used for any priovate use (which means no one could have used it for the weekend, including the dealers employees)", but I thought as a consumer (private) you only paid VAT on a brand new car registered to you first time or where VAT has been claimed back. So I too am confused about "VAT Qualifying", unless they have imported the car from Ireland, 'cos every car at a dealers is used at some point by someone privately...unless it's a van!!

The only other explanation I have is that the dealers have to account for VAT at the end of the financial year, so they register it, sell it within the financial year and expect the poor sod who buys the car to pay the VAT - very cheeky in my view!! Probably allowed, but for me it's their loss!

ANyway - just found this on www.cartax.co.uk

Purchasing New Cars

VAT, at 17.5%, will be payable on any new car purchased in the UK or imported from overseas. Once it’s clear that a vehicle is a car, the key issue is whether this VAT can be recovered by the purchaser.

Assuming the purchaser is registered for VAT and ordinarily entitled to recover it on other costs, VAT incurred on a car and any fitted accessories can only be recovered if that car is used exclusively for business purposes. Essentially, the purchaser must be able to prove a car is not available for private use.

In practice most cars will have some element of private use which will block the buyer’s entitlement to recover VAT. Even if the purchaser has a highly regulated policy, any VAT recovery on a car is likely to be challenged by Customs and Excise on principle. From Customs’ perspective, even permitting an employee to keep a pool car at home overnight before a business trip is considered sufficient to block VAT recovery.

If there is any private use, no VAT at all can be recovered on the purchase of the car. At present, there is no apportionment between private and business use, just a straightforward 100% VAT block.

VAT Status and Used Cars

The use to which a car is put will determine its status for VAT purposes. In turn, that VAT status will determine whether VAT should be charged on the disposal of the car and hence whether there is any VAT available for recovery in the hands of a subsequent owner.

If VAT has been fully recovered on a car, that car will be “VAT qualifyingâ€. If a qualifying car is sold VAT will be chargeable on its sale, and recoverable by the purchaser under the rules outlined above.

If input VAT recovery has been restricted on a car at any point in its life, that car becomes “Non-Qualifyingâ€. VAT will not be due on the sale of a non-qualifying car.

Hmm....so basically they have to have claimed VAT back on a car to be able to charge it to you. So if the car does not state "VAT Qualifying" then you should not have to pay. I think that part is very important!! On a car costing £27k, that means nearly £5k...

no business can afford to pay that amount of TAX and not recover it, so they charge it to you any way...that way they recover some of what they paid the government...

Slimy if you ask me...if they register it, they should take the hit...sure as 'eck, if I was to walk into a dealer with a car I bought 3 months before having paid VAT, I wouldn't get a penny of that back from the dealer!

[Parthiban]

I agree with that, they definitely wouldn't want to pay VAT and then get none of it back - would take away all the benefits of pre-registering cars......

However, I still don't believe they will pay VAT on them in the first place.......it's easy for them to argue that they're all demos and will sit on the forecourt all the time (no one's actually going to watch them and see whether someone takes one home one evening)

On a totally separate note, I had my car serviced last week, and was really surprised at how new all the cars for sale were, there was nothing older than an 05 plate around (never been like that before)...........had a word to them about it, and apparently, pre-reg cars are selling the best at the mo so they're not bothering with older cars anymore, just auctioning them off or selling to other traders.

This possibly means there could be some truth in the fact that it might be possible to get a new car cheaper than a pre-reg one..........

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Back to main topic - use DTD and push them for every penny...why have a used one when you can have a new one? ASt east that way you know no one ever thrashed it whilst test driving it...and you can run it properly...

[paul_k]

Who / What are DTD?

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Drive The Deal - www.drivethedeal.co.uk

[debgreg]

Who / What are DTD?

Hi All

Paul ,DTD is Drive the deal,(put in search) put your details and requirments in and they will give you the best price for a new car on the road and delivered

thanx everyone for all your help, I will print of best price page and go around Manchester (couple of dealers there) and then back to Liverpool see what they will do.

Have the dealers ever beat the price or only matched it? I have a Peaugot 307 LX 2002 33,000 on the clock and they offered me £2,000 PX (might just give it to my daughter for that) so is it worth bothering with the dealers?

Also if you buy it off DTD where do you take it if problems arise?

lost me on the VAT issue

Thanx again, I will let you know how I get on.

[caspian sky]

Who / What are DTD?

Hi All

Paul ,DTD is Drive the deal,(put in search) put your details and requirments in and they will give you the best price for a new car on the road and delivered

thanx everyone for all your help, I will print of best price page and go around Manchester (couple of dealers there) and then back to Liverpool see what they will do.

Have the dealers ever beat the price or only matched it? I have a Peaugot 307 LX 2002 33,000 on the clock and they offered me £2,000 PX (might just give it to my daughter for that) so is it worth bothering with the dealers?

Also if you buy it off DTD where do you take it if problems arise?

lost me on the VAT issue

Thanx again, I will let you know how I get on.

If you buy it from DTD you actually pay the dealer directly. From what i gather from here, Lexus dealerships are happy to deal with you, even though you do not buy the car from them. It is still a Lexus at the end of the day and any cost to them caused by problems covered by warranty, would be claimed back from Lexus GB

[chandru]

like alot have been saying shop around. I went to lexus coventry, birmingham and leicester for quotes. saw one on lexus newcastle website and told them over the phone, if u can give it to me for £xx i'll pay 1k deposit over phone now. and they did and that was the best deal i had from all 4 dealers. gold is250 se-l + mm with 15miles on clock.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

OK buddy - your 307 is still a modern car and it looks to me as if they're after it for nowt!! WHen you consider that they will only pass it onto a Trader anyway, you ought to be able to haggle a huge discount without PEXng it.

Stick it on Autotrader for £4000 - you're bound to get more than the £2000 offered, or as you say, keep it in the family!! A 307 has got to be worth more than that...especially if it's Full history etc and you don't have any finance on it, take it to some local garages - they may give you more!!

Check out valuations at www.whatcar.co.uk - the prces quoted on that are normally on the money or there abouts!!