Bmw V Lexus Dealers, My Experience

[mustang]

Over the last few weeks I've been looking at 330s and IS250s. Here's a take on what I felt about the dealers.

BMW dealer 1: tested a 330 with 11000 miles, had not gone thru showroom prep and I was informed of this (good). Was taken for test drive (20 mins and pre-arranged). The salesperson was an Ex Ford salesguy who also worked at Mercedes before BMW. His Ford'ness showed.

BMW dealer 2: Pretty helpful salesperson but didn't have the right car for me in stock.

BMW dealer 3: He had the car I wanted to buy but didn't return my call. When I called him later he helped me out. On a subsequent phonecall, the car had already sold. I wish he called me back before. Could have been more professional, but no big deal, maybe it's the younger age.

BMW dealer 4: Currently waiting for his call, he has the car I want but check out this website for a review of this dealer. I'm not sure I want to buy a car from here (just search for the word "Bristol" and check the huge number of -ve comments)

http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/garages_seng.html

BMW dealer 5: I didn't book an appointment so not surprised if no one was available to see me. AFter we re-scheduled an appointement but I didn't go back (I'm not sure how bad I feel about this). There was something funny about that sales guy.

Lexus dealer 1: IS250 was advertised with mm but didn't have it. I only found this out after travelling to the dealership, after which sales guy informed me they could isntall satnav. I didn't wait around long enough to enquire if they meant a complete mm or a TomTom. Sales guy had the aura of a BMW sales guy from dealers 1 and 3 above.

Lexus dealer 2: very helpful, young guy but professional. I have spent the most time with this person because and has alwaays been courteous.

Lexus dealer 3: I went there late on a Saturday evening, not too far from closing time (I called before hand but no one got back to me). They obliged me with a test drive (20 mins) and demonstrated the mm and various specs. Always highly professional. The finance guy called but we're playing telephone tag at the moment.

EDIT

Those arrogant bas-(am I allowed to say that on this forum? I didn't quite read the "I agree" thingy)-tards at BMW. Maybe I should give Lexus a shot this time round. Having said that, all I have to do is buy a BMW, run it for one year (used car warranty period) and possibly never see a dealer again as I'll use a private garage. I will decide this Saturday (29 Sep 07).

[ihpj]

I too was very impressed with the way Lexus handled my idle (and passing) query on the RX. I was quite literally bowled over with their very personable approach and wholly professional attitude. Knowledgeable staff, keen and enthusiastic. Said and did the 'right things' - which was refreshing coming from Audi and BMW (sales) people experience.

Haven't really got a bad word to say about them all over (thats sales, service, parts ... ) - unfortunately I cannot say the same about BMW Sales: Arrogant, condescending and very much of a 'I don't think you can afford to buy, so I'm not going to waste my time with you' approach. Thats fine, I'll go elsewhere (and did to Lexus). Service on the other hand were absolutely superb, as were parts (who would be very willing to lend advice and assistance freely and without prompting). Very impressed with BMW Service and Parts.

I think it does come down to the relationship you have and with the Dealership and the individuals there. But BMW Sales universally seem to be quite arrogant - pity really as they make great cars ;)

[Chris Skelton]

I share ihpj's opinion on BM dealers. I used to be amused going in dressed in jeans (I'm a Doctor of Philosphy!) and getting the 'down-the-nose' treatment from ignorant punks in suits.

" Could I pay for it in cash" brings them up short though!

[Exiled]

It's uncanny, wherever you live in the country, most of us seem to have had similar experiences with BMW. I kicked our local dealer into touch and cancelled a test drive because they would not return my calls, e-mails and voice mail messages, it is one of the few things that really, really, gets me wound up, they just didn't seem all that interested, it's one of the reasons I started to look at Lexus. Daft thing is, 50 yds from the BMW showroom is the Mini set up where Mrs Exiled bought her car, they can't do enough for her, are absolutely spot on.

The three Lexus dealers I've visited have all been first class in every aspect and it was a much more enjoyable experience.

There is one good BMW dealership I've had dealings with through my daughter, Bateman's at Grange-over-Sands in Cumbria. They're normal, maybe it's something to do with the country air.

[Giblet]

no cmparison, BMW dealers treat you like a supermarket treats its cutomers, Lexus never seems to be busy, always give you individual attention and good service, and they sell Lexus, that's got to be a big plus over the BMW dealer.

[paul_k]

Almost bought an 18 month old 645ci but the dealer was very inflexible on price despite pointing out excessive stone chips, some scratches, worn tyres and due for a £1000 service shortly.

Walked away and bought the SC instead. Lexus dealers are far more professional in there approach.

[Booms74]

I have had 3 BM's in the last 10 years and really enjoyed owning all of them. The first one I had, the service from Sytner Leicester was fantastic, by the Third one it was rubbish. At this point I told the dealer principle that they are not as customer focussed as they used to be. He told me they are busier than they used to be and selling more cars, no one is complaining, "Is there anything else I can do for you sir?" (It was a little nicer than that, but he was just going through the motions!)

I did go in and test drive a 3 series before I decided on the Lexus, and the salesperson just didn't have the passion or the knowledge about the car they were selling! I did everything the BMW way and rang up and made an appointment. I got a 20 minute test drive and a brochure. They did call me several times to see if I was still interested.

Went to Lexus un-announced, was treated like a king, shown the car, offered a test drive, and given a car for half a day, handover was brilliant.

[Giblet]

it was Sytner in Leicester i was referring to also, as you said, they just got so busy they forgot about looking after the customer and concentrated on pushing cars out the door as fast as they could.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

My take on this is simple....

1) Most dealers (regardless of Marque) are owned by larger comanies - Inchcape, Sytner, so on. They use the same principals driven down from senior mangement for sales, Cust Sat etc...lets face it, if I was Mr Inchcape I wouldn't be saying "...treat Lexus customers better than BMW ones...". I'd just care about sales figures...My experience at the same BMW garage (which incidentally is Sytner BMW Leic, and Sytner also own the Lexus dealersghip!!) was one where they couldn't get me a Demo/drive in a 320d for 5 days. They didn't have one in stock - their most common model.... And when I had the drive, the car was as basic as can be - just Met paint and that was it!! No offer to test out the Satnav system in another car or anyfing!!

2) The quality of service comes down to a couple of factors - how busy the Marque is in the market place and what the manufacturer will impose:

Firstly - remember - BMW's can out sell Fords in this country - it's therefore no surprise that they treat you like a 'Punter'. So Quality and quantity do go hand in hand...

Secondly - no doubt that the manufacturer gives dealers targets on Warranty claims (i.e. to reduce them etc) which is why they have "Warranty Specialists" at most marques. With Lexus it's different. Speak to the Service Manager or anyone in the service dept and they all appear to be empowered to do what is necessary!!

That is the difference - I believe Toyota Motor Corp are more flexible in that one area which then totally changes the way the dealer deals with you. And remember, the showrooms are quieter and the Salesmen aren't trying to fish out good from bad prospects...so they spend time with all and the aftersales is second t none...!!

[paulsmansfield]

I've had minimal experice with BMW, maybe it's because they sell so many 3 series they aren't bothered about a few customers, whereas Lexus are bothered and make the effort. The Lexus dealer I've dealt with most (Southampton) aren't perfect, but no one is, but I am highly impressed with them.

[The Mole]

Interesting comments.

It's nice to see that excellent service, product knowledge, quality demonstration and timely courtous follow up calls are appreciated.

It's such a shame that they don't seem to be worth a damn when it's time to put pen to paper....

Sorry to urinate on any bonfires, but I've lost count of the amount of times that you put your heart and soul into trying trying to sell a car to a potential customer only for them to buy elsewhere purely on price.

They're happy to enjoy the local demonstration, the excellent service and gather all the information, the quotes, the second demonstration, the third demonstration just to make sure they don't prefer this option or that etc, then the guy on the end of the phone at dealer 'x' miles away, who they don't know from Adam, who hasn't lifted a finger just blows the doors off a car with a silly discount knowing that once you've collected the car and driven back to your local area, he'll never see you again, and any problems will be dealt with by the local 'friendly' dealer with the excellent service.

Happens every single day.

People can go on all day about service and proffesionalism, but they don't seem to understand that good service costs, and 99% of customers aren't prepared to pay for it and shhow zero loyalty to someone who has spent hours of their time to try and sell a car.

Also, whilst we're at it - would it be so hard to show even the remotest sniff of preffesional courtesy and return a salesman's call or message? We know you get the messages.... What should we feel towards a person who we've invested serious time and resources into only for them to blank our every call and message for the next two weeks?

[Exiled]

Interesting comments.

It's nice to see that excellent service, product knowledge, quality demonstration and timely courtous follow up calls are appreciated.

It's such a shame that they don't seem to be worth a damn when it's time to put pen to paper....

Sorry to urinate on any bonfires, but I've lost count of the amount of times that you put your heart and soul into trying trying to sell a car to a potential customer only for them to buy elsewhere purely on price.

They're happy to enjoy the local demonstration, the excellent service and gather all the information, the quotes, the second demonstration, the third demonstration just to make sure they don't prefer this option or that etc, then the guy on the end of the phone at dealer 'x' miles away, who they don't know from Adam, who hasn't lifted a finger just blows the doors off a car with a silly discount knowing that once you've collected the car and driven back to your local area, he'll never see you again, and any problems will be dealt with by the local 'friendly' dealer with the excellent service.

Happens every single day.

People can go on all day about service and proffesionalism, but they don't seem to understand that good service costs, and 99% of customers aren't prepared to pay for it and shhow zero loyalty to someone who has spent hours of their time to try and sell a car.

Also, whilst we're at it - would it be so hard to show even the remotest sniff of preffesional courtesy and return a salesman's call or message? We know you get the messages.... What should we feel towards a person who we've invested serious time and resources into only for them to blank our every call and message for the next two weeks?

***** Mr Mole, you've nearly got me in tears here, your tale of woe strikes a chord.

I was in business, not the car business but what you detail happened to me on numerous occasions and every time it happens it's like the first, you feel gutted, that's what being in business today is like. You just keep going, graft your cods off, get to the end of the year and see how you've done, if your head is still above water you do it again year after year always giving it your best shot, in the end as long as you have had a little bit of luck along the way you'll succeed.

If it's any consolation to you, if my dealer of choice impresses me I wouldn't go to "dealer "x" miles away" for the sake of a few quid when I'm going to be spending 30,000 of them.

[Dayglows]

Interesting comments.

It's nice to see that excellent service, product knowledge, quality demonstration and timely courtous follow up calls are appreciated.

It's such a shame that they don't seem to be worth a damn when it's time to put pen to paper....

Sorry to urinate on any bonfires, but I've lost count of the amount of times that you put your heart and soul into trying trying to sell a car to a potential customer only for them to buy elsewhere purely on price.

They're happy to enjoy the local demonstration, the excellent service and gather all the information, the quotes, the second demonstration, the third demonstration just to make sure they don't prefer this option or that etc, then the guy on the end of the phone at dealer 'x' miles away, who they don't know from Adam, who hasn't lifted a finger just blows the doors off a car with a silly discount knowing that once you've collected the car and driven back to your local area, he'll never see you again, and any problems will be dealt with by the local 'friendly' dealer with the excellent service.

Happens every single day.

People can go on all day about service and proffesionalism, but they don't seem to understand that good service costs, and 99% of customers aren't prepared to pay for it and shhow zero loyalty to someone who has spent hours of their time to try and sell a car.

Also, whilst we're at it - would it be so hard to show even the remotest sniff of preffesional courtesy and return a salesman's call or message? We know you get the messages.... What should we feel towards a person who we've invested serious time and resources into only for them to blank our every call and message for the next two weeks?

The Mole, whilst I can totally understand your frustrations I am one of those people that you talk about. I test drove a new IS at the local dealer and would have preferred to buy it from them. However, they were just not competitive. I explained my situation to them so they were kept full informed at all times. Another dealer offered a substantial saving over my local dealer and therefore I did go elsewhere. It was a choice of buying the new car from the nice salesman at the local dealer without MM. Or going elsewhere and being able to afford MM. So in my book the choice was quite easy. My car now however, is serviced at my local dealer so they do at least get some revenue for the good work that the salesman did in convincing me that the car was the one I wanted.

Now, it's not all roses. Yes I saved quite a few thousand but...... I have had issues with my car, a lot of issues. But because the warranty work was undertaken by my local dealer I had no come back on the dealer that provided the car originally as they didn't have chance to fix the faults themselves. Buying the car from a different dealer to the one I have the warranty work undertaken by is a huge issue. So is it worth it? In my opinion Yes, I nwo drive the car I wanted with the spec I wanted at a price I could afford.

If the salesman who provided me with the test drive to start with would have been competitive then yes I would have bought the car form him without question, but unfortunatley he wasn't and I didn't.

Although I sympathise with how the salespeople must feel when the consumer does go elsewhere there could be sales that you make where other salespeople have done all the leg work. There must be a salesman somwhere else that is pulling their hair out so on the whole does it balance out?

[The Mole]

I accept that this is nature of modern business these days. We have a choice - stick with it or do something else. I have no problem with that.

What interests me is when people make all these comparisons between one dealer and the next based on all the various factors that come under the canopy of 'service' but buy elsewhere purely on price.

Like I said, the odd one or two of you will value the service, but trust me - as someone who has done this for many many years, 99% of you don't value the service. You like and enjoy it, but won't pay for it.

As this is the case in most car dealers, it is only the sales person's own proffessional pride that makes them give good service, as they know full well that if they do an average job or a fantastic job, the customer will buy from whoever gives the biggest discout, so why bother bending over backwards in the first place.

I try my very best, but my results are no better than far less interested or pasionate collegues I've worked with over the years.

In response to Dayglows, the level of discout is not dictated to by the salesman, but by the dealer he works for. And no, it doesn't balance out. But you have conveniently proved my point though about buying on price. This is fine, but if service doesn't count come crunch time, people shouldn't complain about differing levels of service because ultimately, it won't change where they buy the car from. Eg, if you visited three dealers and the y guy who gave the least impressive service was the cheapest, who would you buy from?

Also, and this is coming purely from a sales persons point of view, we are paid for selling cars, so when a customer "brings it to us for servicing" we do not get any bennefit from this, or recognition.

Oh, one thing that REALLY winds us up is when the customer we invested hours with who buys elsewhere brings his shiney new car in for us to admire and asks us to explain all the MM controls because the 'order taker' at the supplying dealer didn't do the handover properly in the first place. Imagine how that would make you feel. And yes, people really do that!

[Exiled]

I will eventually decide on which car I'm going to buy when I've driven all those that interest me.

Based on the level of service I have received so far from BM and particularly Mercedes dealerships should I decided to buy one of their cars I would go on the net and buy from the cheapest, wherever in the country it was coming from. Follow up service matters to me but I'm so p----d off with their lack of professionalism that I would expect them to continue to treat me with disdain whether the car came from them or not. I wouldn't have any qualms whatsoever.

I've recently sat infront of Merc and BM salesmen who have spent most of the conversation rubbishing the competition, one of them sent me out in a car and the first thing I had to do was put some juice in. They obviously don't put in the effort that you do Mr Mole.

However, and this is where it becomes difficult, when we come to Lexus sales, these guys are quality, I have been to four dealers, looking at cars, not discussing prices, they have been absolutely superb I have nothing negative to say about any of them and if I decide on a Lexus and it can be obtained for up to £3000 cheaper (the cost of Dayglows MM) from another dealer, what am I supposed to do?

What I would do is "cards on the table" and get the price down to something acceptable. I'm prepared to pay more. My whole working life has been based on the principle that "customer is king", I've done ok by it and can't change now, it's why these fly boys get to me.