What A Great Car - Not!

[Harrydavy]

Hit a new low yesterday evening! Whilst travailing back in the pouring rain, the car began to Kangaroo for about a mile. The car had already been in for a re-flash to cure this (without success!) After a mile the car switched to limp home and 30mph on the M1 is real fun.

This is the second time this has happened and is a real concern as it has now covered 56000m. The end of the warranty is looming!

The RAC sorted out a hire car this morning and now have a lovely Vectra :shutit:

To say I'm fed up is a understatement. The pursuit of excellence seems miles away to me :tsktsk:

[Tango]

To say I'm fed up is a understatement. The pursuit of excellence seems miles away to me :tsktsk:

Feel sorry for the 220D owners..Lexus shouldn't have introduced it. Presume it was the emissions or possibly the European fleet market, although the mpg doesn't sound all that brilliant, no autobox and that dodgy gearing

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Mine's approaching 16000 now, and hasn't suffered this yet.

I said I wouldn't whinge about economy, but mine will not better 40 mpg any more. This means it stays home and I use hire cars as my allowance per mile falls short.... The performance has deteriorated of late - it's become sluggish and 1st gear is painfully slow. The flat spot is huge, and I think it needs to go in again at some point soon.

The passenger seat has a rattle inside it, which is like chinese water torture, but it comes and goes...and happen on motorways....I daren't tell the wife!

I have to say though, I too am already looking forward to the day my 220d finally goes. The spark has all but gone...I may have to consider my financial options again as March looms...and it won't be a Lexus again at this rate!

Oh just remembered, I'm broke...so if I change it won't be a new car!

[robmars]

After nearly 2 years of ownership and 23k miles of driving like an OAP to get mediocre fuel consumption (40ish at best) I have had enough. Car is a piece of S :tsktsk: Beemer 320d coupe and 50+ mph here I come.

[fredsmith]

Mine's approaching 16000 now, and hasn't suffered this yet.

I said I wouldn't whinge about economy, but mine will not better 40 mpg any more. This means it stays home and I use hire cars as my allowance per mile falls short.... The performance has deteriorated of late - it's become sluggish and 1st gear is painfully slow. The flat spot is huge, and I think it needs to go in again at some point soon.

The passenger seat has a rattle inside it, which is like chinese water torture, but it comes and goes...and happen on motorways....I daren't tell the wife!

I have to say though, I too am already looking forward to the day my 220d finally goes. The spark has all but gone...I may have to consider my financial options again as March looms...and it won't be a Lexus again at this rate!

Oh just remembered, I'm broke...so if I change it won't be a new car!

Can someone explain what this thread is about? What does it mean to "kangaroo"?

I've test-driven a BMW 320d, Saab 93 and Lexus 220d over the past 3 weekends, and so far, the Lexus is in front by some distance. I know that Jamboo is a long-term Lexo-sceptic so forgive me if I dismiss your contribution, but I'm still curious to understand what the complaint is here.

I'd appreciate some comments from the other side of the argument. I've found all 3 cars very enjoyable to drive incidentally, but the attention to detail with the Lexus, and the way I've been treated by the sales and service people has made a really positive impression on me. There's a sense of fundamental commitment to quality about Lexus that isn't quite matched by Saab and BMW, even though their cars have a lot going for them. An example: Both the BMW and Saab delivered to me were chock-full of extras like sat-nav, top hi-fi, leather seats etc. Nothing was said about this when the cars were delivered (I just happen to know what the basic models come with). The guy who delivered the Lexus apologised for delivering the basic spec but explained that they didn't want to mislead potential customers. There's a kind of dignity about that attitude that I liked.

But what's this kangaroo thing? I've read reams of stuff about these 3 cars (and others in this bracket) but not come across this expression before.

Thanks.

fred

PS Re the last post, my 2 full days of driving on motorway and country lanes, and deliberately not like an OAP for testing purposes, have given me 44mpg in the 220d. Not as good as the 49 mpg the BMW 320d gave me, but not different enough to worry about.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

I've found all 3 cars very enjoyable to drive incidentally, but the attention to detail with the Lexus, and the way I've been treated by the sales and service people has made a really positive impression on me. There's a sense of fundamental commitment to quality about Lexus that isn't quite matched by Saab and BMW, even though their cars have a lot going for them. An example: Both the BMW and Saab delivered to me were chock-full of extras like sat-nav, top hi-fi, leather seats etc. Nothing was said about this when the cars were delivered (I just happen to know what the basic models come with). The guy who delivered the Lexus apologised for delivering the basic spec but explained that they didn't want to mislead potential customers. There's a kind of dignity about that attitude that I liked.

But what's this kangaroo thing? I've read reams of stuff about these 3 cars (and others in this bracket) but not come across this expression before.

Thanks.

fred

PS Re the last post, my 2 full days of driving on motorway and country lanes, and deliberately not like an OAP for testing purposes, have given me 44mpg in the 220d. Not as good as the 49 mpg the BMW 320d gave me, but not different enough to worry about.

I'm not a long term sceptic at all. I just tell it like it is. My experience is 100% accurate based over 2 years of dealings with both a Lexus dealership and a car. There are loads of Lexus fans on this site who will shout all things positive. I just like to say what I have found. That's where the benefit of an owners club comes in. Else it's a fan club.

Had I known then what I know now, I might have waited until 2007 before buying the Lexus, and stuck it with the Audi. A 250SE Auto with MM would have been on my drive now!!

I've always said that a near perfect car is the 250SE Auto. The diesel from my experience, all the ECU mods and the like, is from my view, a slightly compromised car. Enough so not to want another 220d...

Kangarooing I think is the lurching when the car goes into SAFE mode.

PS - a 250Auto can give you 40+mpg on A roads - that's the key issue here! When you add to this drivers who have had major problems with the 220d (Harry being one) (Read Nov2007 What Car mag), it really makes you wonder what it'll be like after the warranty is out!!

[Harrydavy]

But what's this kangaroo thing? I've read reams of stuff about these 3 cars (and others in this bracket) but not come across this expression before.

Hi Fred

The car was stuttering or hesitating but before it broke down it did it non-stop for about 1/2 a mile. It had also started to suffer for turbo lag in first gear, not coming in until 2500rpm, I didn't realize how dangerous this is at junctions etc.

44mpg is fantastic, I'm currently av 31 but have had it up to 37. At the minute it doesn't matter how carefully I try I can't get anywhere that.

Last night I sent a very strong email to Lexus Leicester's head principle, lets see where we go from here.

My honest advice Fred is buy the BMW as I will be doing in September

[Matus]

Harry, lexus should replace your car. This is not normal at all!

[Rsarin]

I've found all 3 cars very enjoyable to drive incidentally, but the attention to detail with the Lexus, and the way I've been treated by the sales and service people has made a really positive impression on me. There's a sense of fundamental commitment to quality about Lexus that isn't quite matched by Saab and BMW, even though their cars have a lot going for them. An example: Both the BMW and Saab delivered to me were chock-full of extras like sat-nav, top hi-fi, leather seats etc. Nothing was said about this when the cars were delivered (I just happen to know what the basic models come with). The guy who delivered the Lexus apologised for delivering the basic spec but explained that they didn't want to mislead potential customers. There's a kind of dignity about that attitude that I liked.

But what's this kangaroo thing? I've read reams of stuff about these 3 cars (and others in this bracket) but not come across this expression before.

Thanks.

fred

PS Re the last post, my 2 full days of driving on motorway and country lanes, and deliberately not like an OAP for testing purposes, have given me 44mpg in the 220d. Not as good as the 49 mpg the BMW 320d gave me, but not different enough to worry about.

I'm not a long term sceptic at all. I just tell it like it is. My experience is 100% accurate based over 2 years of dealings with both a Lexus dealership and a car. There are loads of Lexus fans on this site who will shout all things positive. I just like to say what I have found. That's where the benefit of an owners club comes in. Else it's a fan club.

good and fair point.

[Matus]

Fredsmith> I believe that IS220d is a good quality car. There are two weak points:

1. MPG

2. rattling

ad 1: IS220d is economical, but you have to "work" on it - there are few topics abot this on this forum

ad 2: important is, that despite it is a diesel, it is still quiet car and therefore if you drive without the stereo, you hear many things - I would say unhearable in other diesels. And truth is, that interior has weak points. I had 3 problems and I sorted it by myself and my car is quiet as new but I believe to Jamboo and others.

However after about 6 years and plenty of new cars (citroen, alfa, mercedes...) this (and corolla verso) are first cars, which for almost 1,5 years go to the dealer just for regular servicing.

If I was buing car for same money, it would be IS220d again.

People like Harry are exception. But this is no excuse for lexus. Everyone can make a mistake today, but it is important to see it and do things to improve it.

[Wicky]

Just to add my twopenneth worth - I have had my 250 Sport now for almost 2 years - not a rattle in sight and it just gets better and better. I have now covered 17000 miles and the engine is a dream - it gets more and more responsive and refined as the miles go by.

Normally I would change my car after 2 years but this does not even enter my mind at the moment. I'm totally delighted with it and no other model in its class appeals to me at all.

Hard lines on people who have bought a dud but I can only tell it as I find it.

[Exiled]

Harry, for Fred's benefit could the "kangaroo" effect be called spluttering?

Fred,

Jamboo is as honest as the day is long and only tells it as he finds it. He's trying to be helpful. Like him, I'm not interested in being a member of a fan club, praise where it's due and also criticism where it's due.

I am also going through the selection process but don't fancy a 220d based on what I've read on this forum. If you get a bit of spare time I would suggest you scroll back through the threads, you'll learn quite a lot about the merits of the different models. If the 250Auto is a possible buy for you I would suggest you have a drive in one.

[fredsmith]

OK, fair enough everyone. Sorry if I was a little defensive. It's a bit annoying finishing an extended test drive in a car that seemed great only to be told that it's a "dud".

There are reasons why I preferred the idea of the diesel but if the difference is that stark, I will have to think again about the 250.

[Exiled]

OK, fair enough everyone. Sorry if I was a little defensive. It's a bit annoying finishing an extended test drive in a care that seemed great only to be told that it's a "dud".

There are reasons why I preferred the idea of the diesel but if the difference is that stark, I will have to think again about the 250.

Well done Fred, good response.

[Exiled]

Warn 0%, (bottom left hand corner). What's that all about?

[Rsarin]

its a naughty meter,if youve been a bad boy on the forum-you get a % warning and only you can see your own,ie i cant see your warn meter,but can see mine

[Rich_Bee]

I have to say though, I too am already looking forward to the day my 220d finally goes.

Me too, the performance of mine seems worse now - fuel won't go above 37mpg even on huge motorway runs and first gear is just scary so pulling out quickly on roundabouts means superhero levels of braveness or massive clutch slip!

I've spoken to our fleet manager and am swapping mine for a 320d Msport estate which is due back into our 'pool' in Jan/Feb, it's 9 months old but I'm looking forward to getting it I have to say!

[Harrydavy]

I have to say though, I too am already looking forward to the day my 220d finally goes.

Me too, the performance of mine seems worse now - fuel won't go above 37mpg even on huge motorway runs and first gear is just scary so pulling out quickly on roundabouts means superhero levels of braveness or massive clutch slip!

I've spoken to our fleet manager and am swapping mine for a 320d Msport estate which is due back into our 'pool' in Jan/Feb, it's 9 months old but I'm looking forward to getting it I have to say!

I think there is a big problem here and obviously Lexus are not going to admit it. I'm contacting Lexus GB customer relations at Lunch but am not very hopeful. Then going in to Lexus Leicester this afternoon, but I will not leave with my car unless it is completely fixed. Apparently there is a new modal next year but they're not making any promises about mpg, its to get the tax (company car?) band down! Sorry but I'm out of here!

[swager]

I have to say though, I too am already looking forward to the day my 220d finally goes.

Me too, the performance of mine seems worse now - fuel won't go above 37mpg even on huge motorway runs and first gear is just scary so pulling out quickly on roundabouts means superhero levels of braveness or massive clutch slip!

I've spoken to our fleet manager and am swapping mine for a 320d Msport estate which is due back into our 'pool' in Jan/Feb, it's 9 months old but I'm looking forward to getting it I have to say!

you will not be dissapointed in the 320d m sport, it has a peach of an engine and although mine is an auto with only 3k on the clock it can return 45 mpg on mixed driving and 50+ ish on motorway runs and I do not have to adopt any style of driving to get to these figures .My IS250 sel auto mm will also give good mpg on motorway driving and was pleased I did not go down the 220d route when purchasing my second car.I somewhat feel sorry for the Lexus sales guys ,they must dread any regular customers who start looking at their oil burner as I felt I was steered away from the 220d and was offered a super deal on another 250.

After 3 months of ownership with the 320d m sport I am very pleased but looking at the two cars sise by side I think the lexus IS wins hands down but once again if only they could have got it right first time as a manufacture with their 220d - better mpg - engine - auto -etc etc. hmmm back to the drawing board

cheers

swager

[FinLex]

This 220d bashing in here has gone too far, IMHO. To say that the mileage isn't the best in its class, is okay. To say that the 250 auto is much smoother, is okay. To say that automatic transmission would complement the diesel, is okay. To say that the car is a lemon that has nothing going for it, is most definitely not okay. I have driven the Audis, BMW's and Mercs many times, and none of these have a 4-cylinder diesel pulling as smoothly as my Lexus (the new BMW 320d 177 hp might, but that one I haven't tried yet). When the Lex was brand new, the flat spot at the bottom end was worse than with the rivals, but now with 10k+ on the clock, it's practically unnoticeable. Comparing the 220d to 250 auto, the 250 wins in just about every aspect except for the cost (both purchasing and owning). Comparing the 220d to the 4-cylinder diesels from Audi, BMW and Merc, I would say the 220d wins in smoothness and power, but loses in mileage.

If your 220d is as bad as some of you guys are saying, you have every right to be mad at your dealer: Your car is not running right. It could be and should be a real pleasure to drive, believe me. But please, try to stay objective. There are good 220d's out there. What exactly is causing this huge variation in opinions, is beyond me.

[Steve ( West Mids )]

Are you still there Harrydavy, or did they sort it?

[Harrydavy]

Are you still there Harrydavy, or did they sort it?

Still here! Got the car back Tuesday afternoon.

Lexus Leicester say the fault was with a faulty 5th jet and in fairness the car is running much better. I'm still compiling info for an acurate mpg but it's much smoother.

Throughout all of my various issues and complaints I can not fault Lexus Leicester. All dealers have their hands tied and reading the various threads it seems Lexus GB are hiding behind them. They keep releasing various updates (I think I have had 5!) which never means admitting that there is a fault.

I/Lexus Leicester are chasing Lexus GB to cover the balance of my pcp with a warranty but am awaiting to hear.

[Matus]

This 220d bashing in here has gone too far, IMHO. To say that the mileage isn't the best in its class, is okay. To say that the 250 auto is much smoother, is okay. To say that automatic transmission would complement the diesel, is okay. To say that the car is a lemon that has nothing going for it, is most definitely not okay. I have driven the Audis, BMW's and Mercs many times, and none of these have a 4-cylinder diesel pulling as smoothly as my Lexus (the new BMW 320d 177 hp might, but that one I haven't tried yet). When the Lex was brand new, the flat spot at the bottom end was worse than with the rivals, but now with 10k+ on the clock, it's practically unnoticeable. Comparing the 220d to 250 auto, the 250 wins in just about every aspect except for the cost (both purchasing and owning). Comparing the 220d to the 4-cylinder diesels from Audi, BMW and Merc, I would say the 220d wins in smoothness and power, but loses in mileage.

my words...

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

....I would say go try the new 320d...it is one smooth, quiet car! The engine is a Gem! The rest of it isn't! It's not good value...but the engine is better and the ar is quieter!!

[Rsarin]

thats good to hear,cos i just bought one today-a 320dM-sport coupe that is arriving jan20th.Loved the car,loved the coupe looks and its got a nice interior.i agree about the engine,but cant comment on the rest cos ive never experienced a newish E90 style bmw yet,so i dont know if quality has impoved.Once its here-youre welcome to come and have a drive of it and see what you think.