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Lexus Hybrid - Why?


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Hi all

Would really appreciate your thoughts on this, as I've been thinking about it for months and I'm not getting anywhere.

Why have you bought Lexus Hybrids?

Isn't a luxury hybrid an oxymoron, a logical contradiction? And if you don't care about the environment, why pay extra for a hybrid when non-hybrids (both Lexus and other marques) offer very similar performance and mileage?

What I'm trying to understand is what makes Lexus Hybrids stand out to the extent that you would pay such a high price for them? What kind of a person is a Lexus Hybrid buyer/driver ? I can picture a Prius buyer, but not an RXh, GSh or LSh buyer

Thanks in advance for your responses, this is really much appreciated

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Why would somebody who works for Lexus ask this question?

Because I'd like to better understand how hybrids are perceived by those who have bought them. I have my own view (and Lexus has theirs), but that may not necessarily reflect how you all feel about it. That's why it would be great to have a conversation about it and share opinions.

Thanks again

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Maybe in some way they are doing their bit for the environment?

Personally I don't get it when people want to turn Gas Guzzlers into LPG cars?

If you want better MPG then get a smaller engine.

I certainly didn't buy my RX 'cos it was economocal! I didn't buy my LS 400 for that reason either.

Maybe some people want the luxury of a Lexus but the mileage of a Prius. I don't mind what anybody does to their car. It is their car.

So giving you a good reason for a Hybrid buyer will have to come from somebdy that bought a "Hybrid" because it was a Hybrid.

I think what you are saying is what I'm saying. Why buy a heavy MPG car that has a "Hybrid" facility?

In the end it's each to their own.

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Why would somebody who works for Lexus ask this question?

Because I'd like to better understand how hybrids are perceived by those who have bought them. I have my own view (and Lexus has theirs), but that may not necessarily reflect how you all feel about it. That's why it would be great to have a conversation about it and share opinions.

Thanks again

smart!!!Ive considered a hybrid in the past,went for a 320d m-sport(brand new-delivery soon)due to mpg,combined cycle of 50+mpg.I too cant understand why anyone would go for a hybrid-the mpg isnt that great unless youre tying hard and although the lexus has superior spec as std,i just cant get my head around why you wouldnt go for an oil burner if you were interested in mpg.Maybe its an image thing?London congestion charges?sorry but i cant help refer to this article i read recently.Im not making the argument for or against its just im not clear on which car is actually greener-a diesel or a hybrid.this review nearly sold me and my mrs a hybrid-but in the end we decided on a beemer oil burner

http://cars.uk.msn.com/News/car_news_artic...umentid=3926687

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For me, the main thing would be the congestion charge.

The other reason for me is that diesels are disgusting so are never an option, and this gives you a way to get even better performance with decent fuel economy and lower road tax. Everyone's too hung up on CO2 and not on the other horrible emissions that come from diesel cars........

Take the GS450h and GS430 as an example - with new taxing laws and parking permit laws, the hybrid is going to be cheaper to run without a much greater outlay initially.

Except for the size of the boot, I can't see a reason not to buy the hybrid.........

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I brought an RX400h against many other marques - had Audi, BMW, Merc amongst others before - and was after something different.

I believe that Diesel engines will soon be proven to be contributing to breathing difficulties by the micro particulates and NOX emissions. So it wil be another excuse for the Givernment to tax them more.

The Hybrid gives the same economy as a diesel, same/better performance and is incredibly quiet place to be.

It also allows me to raise two fingers to Kens charge.

I had no wish for a hybrid till I talked through and looked at the literature. So it was quite a snap decision.

Am I saving the planet? Probably not much on a Co2 footprint.

Am I less polluting ? Probably yes on Nox and other nasties.

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I believe that Diesel engines will soon be proven to be contributing to breathing difficulties by the micro particulates and NOX emissions. So it wil be another excuse for the Givernment to tax them more.

I'm really glad there are other people that also realise the impact that diesels are going to have on people's health in future - I wish eco morons could be intelligent as well..........

(I know that's a generalisation, and I'm sorry, but it really drives me up the wall!)

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Ceejay and Parthiban - Think you really hit the nail on the head with your responses. I agree that there is too much talk about CO2 in general, while we're forgetting about everything else that pollutes and is potentially harmful to our health and planet.

Therefore for someone who needs a a high performance luxury car, a Lexus Hybrid looks like the most cost effective and environmentally sustainable option. We're not saving the planet, but it's a step in the right direction. What do you think?

This is a great conversation, lets keep the opinions and ideas flowing...

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I'd buy a hybrid if only cos it's fun to creep up behind your mates in the car park as they can't hear your car engine running at slow speeds. It's great fun and scares the crap out of them!

CO2 haha - only 6% of the atmospheric CO2 is a result of human efforts, like car journeys, planes, shipping etc

It's another excuse to introduce additional ways of sourcing revenue for the govt without raising income tax. Clever bunch of people aren't they?

It's all the short trips people make in their cars that may well be screwing things up. A 3 minute drive to Tesco express to pick up some milk doesn't even give the cats time to warm up and start working!

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Please don't get me started on the congestion charge when it comes to hybrids. It's damn obvious to me that 10 Lexus RX400h's in a single road will cause more congestion than say, 10 Nissan Micra's. So why should someone who spends over £80,000 on a LS600h have to pay no congestion charge when my Nissan Micra driving school car, which uses loads less fuel, takes up far less space, produces far less Co2 has to pay £8.00 a day. If you ask me, I'd like to rip Ken a new one. That's my 10p's worth. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

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Almost as interesting is why didn't you buy a Hybrid?

I did consider in but couldn't justify the extra £10k over the price of my car. Living in Manchester with no congestion charge (yet) and fuel paid for it made no sense.

Today a colleague took delivery of a new Range Rover Sport, handing back his V10 Toureg. I drove both today and noticed how much noiser both were compared to my RX. I am looking to change my car soon, though I would love a 997 but it just isn't practical, so will plumb again for a 4x4. I will look at the competition but quietness will be a consideration so I may consider a Hybrid next especially if Manchester does impose congestion charging. My wife would like me to have a Hybrid for the misgiven green reasons.

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Please don't get me started on the congestion charge when it comes to hybrids. It's damn obvious to me that 10 Lexus RX400h's in a single road will cause more congestion than say, 10 Nissan Micra's. So why should someone who spends over £80,000 on a LS600h have to pay no congestion charge when my Nissan Micra driving school car, which uses loads less fuel, takes up far less space, produces far less Co2 has to pay £8.00 a day. If you ask me, I'd like to rip Ken a new one. That's my 10p's worth. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

Probably because at the very low speeds that exist in much within the Congestion Charge Zone (I read somewhere the average speed is just 11mph in Central London), a hybrid sitting in a traffic jam or creeping along using the electric motor is in all likelihood using less fuel than your micra and producing less Co2 as well.

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I'd buy a hybrid if only cos it's fun to creep up behind your mates in the car park as they can't hear your car engine running at slow speeds. It's great fun and scares the crap out of them!

lol...that's an interesting take on hybrid cars...!

But I agree the congestion charge is a complex issue. I can see both points of view, but do we think the fact that Lexus Hybrids won't be exempt from it anymore will have a strong negative effect on buyers considering one?

Also, I'm getting the idea that general "quietness" is a major plus that hybrids have when compared to other cars?

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Probably because at the very low speeds that exist in much within the Congestion Charge Zone (I read somewhere the average speed is just 11mph in Central London), a hybrid sitting in a traffic jam or creeping along using the electric motor is in all likelihood using less fuel than your micra and producing less Co2 as well.

And just how far will an Hybrid go on a full charge before the engine cuts in? If you live and work in London it won't last long.

Call me a Hybrid sceptic but apart from a bit from braking the charge in the batteries comes from the engine, so the "clean" charge in the batteries has come from a "dirty" source. Add to that the additional mineral resources used to make the batteries, motors, wiring, insulation..copper, tin, plastics etc and the "dirty" energy used in the manufacture (probably in China). Then that lot has to be recycled at the end of the vehicles life using yet more "dirty" energy.

So to sum up, the reduction in emissions from the vehicle will be nothing compared to the resources used to "make it and break it".

Only reasons to buy one are to creep up on your mates and to avoid the congestion charge, absolutely SFA use for saving the planet.

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I'm just about to change my RX300 for a RX400h.

I live in Westminster so have to pay Communist Ken's Congestion Tax - £220 with residents' discount. So, for the last year, instead of using public transport I've driven everywhere to stick it to him. It helps keep me sane. From next year however, I read that Band G cars will have to pay £25 per day and that residents' discounts for Band G cars will be abolished - so my payments would be £6500 per year. So I'm trading in my 300 for a 400h before the Feb deadline and moving to Band F emissions - therefore future proofing myself somewhat until 2010 against further attacks.

So to answer your original question: I need a 4x4 (I'm in the wine business, run exhibitions, so need the space and regularly do a lot of winter snow driving on the continent). I've been forced to swap my current 4x4 for another one similar. It bugs me because I've had to trade in an excellent car that I enjoy owning, just because of a pointless politician who hates the middle-class spending their cash on things that they want to own rather than State Sanctioned Transport.

I don't buy the environmental arguments. The politicians are trying to convince us to pay up to save the world but the numbers don't add up. The UK's emissions are around 0.5bn tonnes of CO2 (equiv). China=2.5 bn, USA 2 bn, India 1.7bn, etc. The UK's target reduction is -0.05m tonnes. China, India, Russia's intended increase is +18billion tonnes over same period. It's clear that there is NO material impact the UK can have, apart from the fuzzy feeling that we tried to do something - albeit something pointless. And I don't like taking money from my family to pay politicians just so they can feel better about themselves but acheive nothing. Get a deal with China, USA, India et al and THEN come back to me to ask me to pay my part. Not before.

Looking forward, when politicians make it too hard for me to own the cars that I like owning, I will close my business in London (with the inevitable redundancies) and move to somewhere where I can get on with making money, money that scumbag leaches like Livingstone enjoy taking out of my pocket, in peace.

Anyone want to run for mayor? I'd vote for you. "Anyone But Ken". Pass it on.

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The UK and mainland Europe are without a doubt the cleaner countries. I suspect also Australia, New Zealand and so on are also on that list. Fact is, for airway and respirtaory disease, the damage is done. We're cleaner now than we have been in the last 100 years because of emissions control and so on. Go to a less developed country where every car puts out a kilogram of soot every time it moves. Whatever tiny bit everyone is doing is totally inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and you have a choice, you can either drive a greener car and do nothing except be liked by greenpeace people (and who really wants to be liked by them) or you can drive a dirtier car and just carry on polluting. I know which one I choose.

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Thanks for all your responses guys. There's definitely a broad range of views which is great.

If there are anymore, just post. Interested to hear why you would buy a hybrid, but also why you wouldn't.

In response to the last few comments, I can see the point that the "green" credentials of current hybrids are debatable, but would you agree that it is a step in the right direction? That we're investing in a technology that can only get better in the future if we give it a chance?

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Thanks for the reply to my first post on your topic converse, I wasn't being funny just interested in the reason.

I've driven them at Open Days and love them and the idea but wouldn't consider one myself due to cost and fact I don't live near to a current Congestion Charge area.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Converse old chap, do you work for Lexus R&D? If not, please reassure us that you're not one of those pointless "transport consultants" paid for from our taxes, with a job description that involves making car ownership more difficult and/or expensive...? Time to come clean, old bean.

For my part, I've now bought the RX400h that I mentioned before Xmas. Whilst I miss my RX300 (I'm too chicken to start jamming 8x4 sheets of ply into the back of the pristine 400, the way I used to...) I must admit that it's an impressive vehicle. The hybrid/petrol changeover is smooth, it's powerful, luxurious, plenty of toys. I'm looking forward to 3 years of ownership.

Lows: reading that TFL are not accepting the V5C as "proof of conformity" despite it saying that it's a hybrid engine, and it being listed on the Powershift scheme & website." Bast*rd useless thieving bureaucrats. My application is in, and I'm waiting for a response.

Highs: 1. Looking forward to 12 months congestion tax exemption. 2. Being given a free 12 month parking permit by Westminster Council, and 4 months' rebate on my old one. Pleasant, useful, helpful bureaucrats. Well done.

Jury's Out: Fuel consumption - I'm currently getting 26 mpg, despite careful driving in urban/ extra-urban. Not yet impressed.

And to answer your question, yes we should certainly trial/embrace new technologies that allow us to retain the personal freedom of the car, whilst impacting less on the planet, and not curtailing our basic freedom to drive and choose the cars we would like to own. It's a definite step in the right direction. But I can see that it will face strong competition from Honda's idea to use hydrogen fuel cells with "home generators". They have some clever ideas over there on Yakushima island.

Thanks for all your responses guys. There's definitely a broad range of views which is great.

If there are anymore, just post. Interested to hear why you would buy a hybrid, but also why you wouldn't.

In response to the last few comments, I can see the point that the "green" credentials of current hybrids are debatable, but would you agree that it is a step in the right direction? That we're investing in a technology that can only get better in the future if we give it a chance?

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I test drove them, and would no longer consider them. Since then I drove something else which makes so much much more sense...a BMW535d Twin Turbo...to me at least

I think Hyb's are for rich peeps in the London area only overall. What real benefit is there other than Parking/Congestion charging?

Don't get me wrong - I think it's great that Mr T Has done it, but I do struggle to see what point is being made when you have a 3.3/3.5l engine under the bonnet and combined BHP equivalent close to a Porsche Carrera...what message does it send....???? And just like the IS220d, it seems hard to get the economy that is claimed by the government figures in nbormal driving (like most cars)...

Anyway - the Prius makes more sense...especially as a mode of city transport...or the new Tata Nana with a 600cc engine...not bad for 1200 new (but if it comes to the UK it'll cost £5k probably!) but I wonder if that would be totally exempt from Congestion charging...when a V6 Lexus is (albeit with a lectric motor which increases it's speed/output performance by another 40-50% when cained)???

Dunno - I just think it's a contradiction...and to be honest I have no idea other than those mentioned above why anyone would have one...

For me it could have been fueled exclusively with Bio/CNG type fuels, or something that was cleaner than petrol and less harmful to the environment. Fuel cells I'm sure will be the way to go....

The other point is why make a hybrid/engine that does 0-60 in less than 6 seconds? A nice lazy high geared, efficient engine would have been far better from a "green" perspective...remember the old BMW525eTA???

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I agree with Jamboo. Hybrids are to my mind a gimick which try to attract the green lobby, but don't do that that effectively. Nice to drive (the GS) but that's all really.

If batteries could be made much smaller and lighter then perhaps a hybrid might be more practical, but I'm more than happy to stay with the good old combustion engine for the forseeable future.

Just wait for the next proper, technological leap (fuel cells maybe?)

IanB :D

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