Admitted Fault 220d?

[nate73]

Hi All, Anyone aware if Lexus have admitted to the problem on the D4D engine - I've just bought a 220d SEL and experiencing the same problems with mpg (35mpg tops) as most of the other people on here. It had its 5th injector replaced in January apparently, so not sure what I should do next, any ideas? I've seen people quote egr valve and fuel pumps - any one know the definitive problem with it?

[Lex Bhoy]

With regard to the EGR valve. Edinburgh told me they found a fault whilst replacing the mirror, reported this to Glasgow when it was in getting other work done, they couldn't find any fault via inspection or diagnostics and commented that I was the 3rd car with a reported fault that couldn't be traced.

Couple of points.

What mileage has your car done as fuel consumption gets better after 10k and also this isn't the best time of year to judge fuel consumption.

Know how you feel thought the purpose of diesel was increased fuel consumption.....

Lexus.... "Still seeking the Pursuit of Perfection" and a long way to go with diesel's

[nate73]

With regard to the EGR valve. Edinburgh told me they found a fault whilst replacing the mirror, reported this to Glasgow when it was in getting other work done, they couldn't find any fault via inspection or diagnostics and commented that I was the 3rd car with a reported fault that couldn't be traced.

Couple of points.

What mileage has your car done as fuel consumption gets better after 10k and also this isn't the best time of year to judge fuel consumption.

Know how you feel thought the purpose of diesel was increased fuel consumption.....

Lexus.... "Still seeking the Pursuit of Perfection" and a long way to go with diesel's

Its done 21k. I bought it at 20k and they did the 20k service as part of the deal. Agreed that the time year doesn't help but I've just got rid of a S60 D5 that happily coughed up 42mpg year round! Such a shame as other than mpg/gearbox (Linked??) its a cracking car.

Interesting to note that the 140 horse D4D doesn't sufer in the same way as the 180. My mate has a verso which is sat at 80mph with 2400rpm (Proper gearbox!) giving genuine 46mpg! , less aerodynamic less powerful vehicle giving 10mpg more (Albeit 40Kg less )!

[Lex Bhoy]

Think in an attempt to meet emmision standards they forget about consumption...

Classic example cold engine revving at 1200 to heat the engine quicker.... Bull****

[nate73]

Think in an attempt to meet emmision standards they forget about consumption...

Classic example cold engine revving at 1200 to heat the engine quicker.... Bull****

They didn't do a good job on that either as co2 isn't great! Fortunately I'm on the m'way after 10 mins of starting up so dont have to put up with it...

Out of interest what do you get mpg and tank wise out of yours??

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Firstly - hello and welcome. There are so many threads on this - do we really need a new one ?

It gets worse from my experience rather than better as the miles pile on. Mine is in for it's 20k serrvice next week Lets see if anything improves, and for how long.

For what it's worth, I can get a max of 500 miles per tank full at a push, current Tank Average is 37.5, 90% motorway driving and always using acceleration/gears sensibly.

I just hope that it is the 5th Injector - if it is then I will be asking LGB for an unconditional extension to the warranty beyond 3 years for that part...mine will be on it's 3rd if it is the cause and they replace it.

The diagnostic thing could be a dodgy diagnostic machine...

[nate73]

Firstly - hello and welcome. There are so many threads on this - do we really need a new one ?

It gets worse from my experience rather than better as the miles pile on. Mine is in for it's 20k serrvice next week Lets see if anything improves, and for how long.

For what it's worth, I can get a max of 500 miles per tank full at a push, current Tank Average is 37.5, 90% motorway driving and always using acceleration/gears sensibly.

I just hope that it is the 5th Injector - if it is then I will be asking LGB for an unconditional extension to the warranty beyond 3 years for that part...mine will be on it's 3rd if it is the cause and they replace it.

The diagnostic thing could be a dodgy diagnostic machine...

Jamboo,

Thanks for the info. I'm getting about 470 with the same sort of driving (80% M'way). Bit worried as they say 5th injector has already been changed in Jan. If they can't sort it I'll see what deal can be done on an exchange for a 250 as the fuel bill will be about the same!!! Wont hold my breath tho....

[simple signman]

I took delivery of my new 220d SE 10 days ago and over the past 1000 miles I've averaged 36.7mpg - 80% motorway - I understand the comments made by others here about Audi & BMW having better fuel economy but in addition to the qualities of the Lexus brand I was rather hoping for an economical diesel too!

The whole idea of getting the diesel was to enjoy the best of both worlds - the quality & enjoyment of the Lexus (and I've still got the stupid 'new car' grin) with the added bonus of decent fuel economy - at sub 37mpg I do feel a bit let down by Lexus and their assertions of a 44.8 mpg average.

[nate73]

I took delivery of my new 220d SE 10 days ago and over the past 1000 miles I've averaged 36.7mpg - 80% motorway - I understand the comments made by others here about Audi & BMW having better fuel economy but in addition to the qualities of the Lexus brand I was rather hoping for an economical diesel too!

The whole idea of getting the diesel was to enjoy the best of both worlds - the quality & enjoyment of the Lexus (and I've still got the stupid 'new car' grin) with the added bonus of decent fuel economy - at sub 37mpg I do feel a bit let down by Lexus and their assertions of a 44.8 mpg average.

I have the new car grin too - soon disappears when i indicate to go into the services and the 320d sails past!!

Big problem is that lexus/toyota don't seem to know what's wrong and are happily changing the 5th injector to placate customers. Maybe we should all ask for an annual fuel supplement!!!

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

The only car I ever owned which consistently hit the Govt test figures was the A4 1.9PDi 130. Not only did it match the figures, but consistently beat them. Over 46000 miles, I reckon I averaged over 50mpg actual. I only ever really use my cars for work, and when I don't/can't get a hire car. And that means ast A roads and Motorways at twighlight hours. I rarely use it for domestics - the other car gets that punishment....

I did test drive a 163bhp 320d and a D3 (197bhp Alpina version). The trip computer showed 52.3 and 42.2 respectively on an identical test drive route which included heavy traffic for 30% odd, and then A roads where I let the throttle open (especially the D3, where I really let rip to compare it to the IS220d!!).

So it does go to show - and it was driving the D3 which made me realise that even that had a flat spot - not quite as bad as the 220d, but boy it was fun to drive! The steering and handling were superb and it seemed to pul very flat and fast throughout the rev band!

[FinLex]

It is a very common trend that new cars can't hit the official figures. The test cycle has been the same for too long. Car manufacturers have gotten very good in optimizing their cars for the test cycle. So it's not that the results are somehow tampered, it's just that no one drives the same way in reality. When a car is optimized for the test cycle, it isn't optimized for any other way of driving. Therefore it is possible that a car with a poor official figure is as (or even more) economical in real world than a car with a better one.

A very good example of this is the difference between the normal 220d and the Sport version. According to official figures, the normal version should return almost 20 percent better mileage than the Sport. Well, it doesn't. My long term average is 47,1 MPG. A normal version with a long term average around 56 MPG ... Anyone?

So, why is it so? It's simple. Lexus very aggressively optimized the gear ratios of the normal version for the official test cycle to get the best possible CO2 figure (which isn't that good, actually). The Sport version was made by giving it a shorter final gear ratio. Now, in the official test the normal version is driven exatcly on the best possible RPM throughout the test (because it was designed for that test), whereas the Sport version is driven with ~30 percent higher RPM. It's easy to see, why the difference in fuel economy isn't the same in real life: anyone with half a brain understands to upchange earlier with the Sport. This is the real problem behind standard tests: People can alter their driving styles to fit the car, whereas a standard is a standard.

[egnot]

My 220d is coming up for its 50k service and my consumption has got gradually worse as the car has got older. I have had the 5th Injector change and the average consumption went up to 42 from the reported 39. 20k on and I am back to 38/9 mpg. My early mpg's were in the 42/44mpg and could get 49 on a long run up the M5/M6. my last trip to Manchester 2 weeks ago managed 42mpg, I've lost 5mpg somewhere!

Strange thing is that consumption is not consistent. Last Sunday I refuelled and drove down the M4 from Chippenham to Pontypridd at normal speeds - 90ish as Lexus Bristol told me that is what the ecu mappings were set for to get good mpg. The 50mph in the roadworks noth of Cardiff got me up to 39mpg. On the way back I reset the overal mpg and came back at the speed limit and never used 6th gear --------- 55mpg! Since then a week of my normal comuting which is 15 miles X Country and 20 miles M4/M5 has seen that gradually drop back to 41mpg. I can do the same stretch of motorway and never get the same readings twice, I pray for tail winds. A damp road can knock 2/3 mpg off!

Cold engine X country will hammer the Consumption around 35mpg and it is difficualt to recover that cruising on the motor way. Watching the instant MPG guage it is amazing how quickly the MPG plumets when the slightest strain is put on the engine. A gentle curve on the motorway will drop it below 30mpg.

When I had the 5th Injector done Lexus Bristol accepted 39mpg was bad and the loan 220d I had for a couple of days with 500 miles on the clock held 46mpg on my normal journey. I have never seen that on mine since! Now when I talk to Lexus Bristol they say 39mpg is pretty good! Has Lexus's views changed!

So wth Diesel at 112p per litre down here is no more than 2200 rpm and no 6th gear for me!!!!!!!

However, it seems I am lucky with 39/40 mpg but its not what it used to be!

[TRD1979]

I have had my IS220d Sport for just over 6 months and I do majority town 80% and 20% motorway and have never gotten over 31mpg combined. Altho I did do a motorway run few weeks back to luton and back and got a reading of 33mpg. My mpg does not improve at all even if I am on the motorway even doing 70mph for 2 hours on the go. According the Lexus official figures I should see easily 37-38 mpg on a motorway run. The diesel sport is definitely badly designed but cant complain as I do mostly town and get over 30mpg, hence have not moaned much. But there is definitely something wrong with this engine. My brother has an 2001 Avensis 1.8 with 120k on it and it still returns better fuel economy then mine, imagine. Lexus really need to sort their engine out if they are going to keep the company car customers on board.

[FinLex]

Interesting. I got an official recall on the 5th injector today, not that I've had any problems with it. Is this an international thing or just Lexus Finland?

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Can you guys all please make sure you add your vote HERE if you haven't already?

An official recall in Europe heh? That's interesting! Does that mean that they have a fix for it, or will they just replace it with another one which'll last 12 months???

PS - I get this feeling that they didn't test the system thoroughly enough "globally", and finally an admission that something is wrong! It has taken 2 years!

[nate73]

I have had my IS220d Sport for just over 6 months and I do majority town 80% and 20% motorway and have never gotten over 31mpg combined. Altho I did do a motorway run few weeks back to luton and back and got a reading of 33mpg. My mpg does not improve at all even if I am on the motorway even doing 70mph for 2 hours on the go. According the Lexus official figures I should see easily 37-38 mpg on a motorway run. The diesel sport is definitely badly designed but cant complain as I do mostly town and get over 30mpg, hence have not moaned much. But there is definitely something wrong with this engine. My brother has an 2001 Avensis 1.8 with 120k on it and it still returns better fuel economy then mine, imagine. Lexus really need to sort their engine out if they are going to keep the company car customers on board.

My mate has the 140bhp verso and gets 46mpg. 80mph at 2400rpm in 6th - proper gearbox. Also noticed that all verso 180bhp D4D's get the same gripe about fuel consumption. Anyone know of any differences between the 140bhp other that the obvious?

[FinLex]

I speculated in another thread a few months ago, that Lexus would have made a recall on 5th injector if they were sure that they got it figured out. I have no idea whether they have a permanent fix or are just going to replace it with a similar one. I just hope they're not going to give me a problem that I haven't had so far.

[nate73]

Can you guys all please make sure you add your vote HERE if you haven't already?

An official recall in Europe heh? That's interesting! Does that mean that they have a fix for it, or will they just replace it with another one which'll last 12 months???

PS - I get this feeling that they didn't test the system thoroughly enough "globally", and finally an admission that something is wrong! It has taken 2 years!

Jamboo, Problem is an injector just doesn't clog up, I'm running v-power diesel so it shouldn't be an issue anyway (Dont mention the price!). It must be an overdose of diesel - whether its the fuel pump or bad mapping of the ecu I dont know. I do know that changing an injector will improve the mpg as a matter of course, initially anyway (But then is the 5th is used under extra load or for emmisions?) - Maybe they have been using this as a convenient explanation with little outlay to appease customers in the short term! I'm sure I read something about dodgy fuel pumps on this board somewhere.

[Keith_W]

The driving style is the real key with these. I don't use 6th gear at all; where the road permits I will sit at 80mph in 5th (approx 2500rpm) and drive around at 2k rpm on all other roads changing up at approx 2500rpm - if you do anything else the economy suffers as the car will labour. If this means I have to be in a gear lower than my previous cars then so what?

As a result I get 40mpg all the time and 42+ on a run. And to cap it all, it's a new car that I have just taken past the 2000 miles mark and so expect it only to get better as time goes on.

Still very much loving mine and it's a shame there are a few that aren't

Cheers

Keith

[nate73]

The driving style is the real key with these. I don't use 6th gear at all; where the road permits I will sit at 80mph in 5th (approx 2500rpm) and drive around at 2k rpm on all other roads changing up at approx 2500rpm - if you do anything else the economy suffers as the car will labour. If this means I have to be in a gear lower than my previous cars then so what?

As a result I get 40mpg all the time and 42+ on a run. And to cap it all, it's a new car that I have just taken past the 2000 miles mark and so expect it only to get better as time goes on.

Still very much loving mine and it's a shame there are a few that aren't

Cheers

Keith

Keith, Thats the problem. I'm driving in exactly the same way you are! 10mins at 40 to the motorway then sit at 80 for 35mins on cruise in 5th - Result this morning - mpg drop to 35.5. I give up, feel this is going to be a v short relationship with lexus, pity as the rest of the car is great.

[NT_Lexus]

Had mine approx 2 weeks, and have covered 1800 miles in that time, 85% being mway...

Computer is telling me that my MPG since new is now 33.5, with my best tank full to date being 36.9!

Am getting around 440/450 miles per tank.

I am finding that I have to keep the car at 80-85 and try not to exceed 2,000RPM.

I'm not really having much fun in the car cos of this.

My previous car was a Saab 9-3 1.9TDI and I could nail it everywhere and still get 45MPG.

If I had covered the same miles as above in the 9-3, and driven in the same careful manner I know I'd be at around 48/49MPG!

The Lexus is fantastic, but this fuel-watching lark is a real bore!

[nate73]

Had mine approx 2 weeks, and have covered 1800 miles in that time, 85% being mway...

Computer is telling me that my MPG since new is now 33.5, with my best tank full to date being 36.9!

Am getting around 440/450 miles per tank.

I am finding that I have to keep the car at 80-85 and try not to exceed 2,000RPM.

I'm not really having much fun in the car cos of this.

My previous car was a Saab 9-3 1.9TDI and I could nail it everywhere and still get 45MPG.

If I had covered the same miles as above in the 9-3, and driven in the same careful manner I know I'd be at around 48/49MPG!

The Lexus is fantastic, but this fuel-watching lark is a real bore!

NT - Keeping the rpm below 2000 will make it labour. I'm running in 5th at 80, about 2500rpm and always change up at that speed too. But then again I'm only getting 35-36mpg anyway!

Agree with the fuel watching - much more fun watching the temp gauge!

[dgman]

Firstly - hello and welcome. There are so many threads on this - do we really need a new one ?

It gets worse from my experience rather than better as the miles pile on. Mine is in for it's 20k serrvice next week Lets see if anything improves, and for how long.

For what it's worth, I can get a max of 500 miles per tank full at a push, current Tank Average is 37.5, 90% motorway driving and always using acceleration/gears sensibly.

I just hope that it is the 5th Injector - if it is then I will be asking LGB for an unconditional extension to the warranty beyond 3 years for that part...mine will be on it's 3rd if it is the cause and they replace it.

The diagnostic thing could be a dodgy diagnostic machine...

Jamboo,

Thanks for the info. I'm getting about 470 with the same sort of driving (80% M'way). Bit worried as they say 5th injector has already been changed in Jan. If they can't sort it I'll see what deal can be done on an exchange for a 250 as the fuel bill will be about the same!!! Wont hold my breath tho....

how many litres gets you 470mls

[nate73]

Firstly - hello and welcome. There are so many threads on this - do we really need a new one ?

It gets worse from my experience rather than better as the miles pile on. Mine is in for it's 20k serrvice next week Lets see if anything improves, and for how long.

For what it's worth, I can get a max of 500 miles per tank full at a push, current Tank Average is 37.5, 90% motorway driving and always using acceleration/gears sensibly.

I just hope that it is the 5th Injector - if it is then I will be asking LGB for an unconditional extension to the warranty beyond 3 years for that part...mine will be on it's 3rd if it is the cause and they replace it.

The diagnostic thing could be a dodgy diagnostic machine...

Jamboo,

Thankts for the info. I'm getting about 470 with the same sort of driving (80% M'way). Bit worried as they say 5th injector has already been changed in Jan. If they can't sort it I'll see what deal can be done on an exchange for a 250 as the fuel bill will be about the same!!! Wont hold my breath tho....

how many litres gets you 470mls

About 58ltr on a fill. I'm using v-power diesel so that I can argue that I've been running on the recomended fuel too! Engine should be clean by now as I've covered 1500miles with it. It's supposed to have cleaned out existing deposits after about 800.

My latest tank was 35.5mpg at the pump.

Just for info, I've read a couple of quotes on here about what the fifth injector actually does, some say extra power when the engine under load - others that its for emissions. From what I've found on an old press release it seems it does two things. Firstly it sprays fuel into the remaining exhaust gases to reduce/eliminate NOx and PM. Secondly it sprays fuel through to the cataylst to maintain temp for sulfur removal. As I'm using v-power diesel the amount of fuel needed for these two actions should be minimal - I've got a feeling the clogged injector is the end result of a proplem earlier down the line.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Firstly - hello and welcome. There are so many threads on this - do we really need a new one ?

It gets worse from my experience rather than better as the miles pile on. Mine is in for it's 20k serrvice next week Lets see if anything improves, and for how long.

For what it's worth, I can get a max of 500 miles per tank full at a push, current Tank Average is 37.5, 90% motorway driving and always using acceleration/gears sensibly.

I just hope that it is the 5th Injector - if it is then I will be asking LGB for an unconditional extension to the warranty beyond 3 years for that part...mine will be on it's 3rd if it is the cause and they replace it.

The diagnostic thing could be a dodgy diagnostic machine...

Jamboo,

Thanks for the info. I'm getting about 470 with the same sort of driving (80% M'way). Bit worried as they say 5th injector has already been changed in Jan. If they can't sort it I'll see what deal can be done on an exchange for a 250 as the fuel bill will be about the same!!! Wont hold my breath tho....

how many litres gets you 470mls

Normally fill up when I'm dryish, but I always do a manual calculation - and that's what I'd get after 63 litres if I calculate it back