Are They Really That Bad

[dgman]

did you test drive for a day.

No could only get an hour. I was sucked in by all the hype and wasn't aware of this site. If I had of been I'd have made sure I got a full days test drive before handing over my hard earned.

by the way 58 ltrs=12.7754 GLS divided by 470 miles = 36.789 mpg

[johnboy]

As Eunos800 said a while back - it's an owners club, not a fan club!

Thats news to me :shutit:

[Harrydavy]

With a new 5th Injector, even 47-49 iss possible, but it dwindles on some cars as the miles come on...mine at best gives 39-40 mpg with 90% motorway runs.

I may be wrong, but you have only got about 20K up. Is that sufficient to justify this comment. I have over 40k in a shorter period and I have not noticed this deterioration. As for 39-40 mpg, I think that is acceptable. If I wanted absolute frugality I would have gone for something else. My actual economy is what my pre-purchase research had LED me to expect.

That will be much better than a IS200, but no where near what a diesel should be.

Where is it written in stone just "what a diesel should be." Who says?

Check out my poll - that doesn't lie. 17 of 38 voters have had fuel economy issues...

Your Poll is biased. For a poll to be credible the respondents should be randomly chosen.

It has already been pointed out in other threads here, that on a forum like this you are much more likely to get dissatisfied customers. So your poll is inherently biased from the start. Secondly, you actually encouraged dissatisfied members to vote. On March 7, you posted "Can you guys all please make sure you add your vote HERE if you haven't already?".

I have never seen you actively encourage satisfied owners to post.

Remember, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

Independent websites like www.honestjohn.co.uk don't mention problems with fuel economy and that would reflect a much larger sample size and, in my opinion, be a much better reflection of the true picture.

I am sorry you appear to have got a bad car but I cannot let you extrapolate from that that all 200ds must be bad.

You have already posted that your experience is all that counts. Well, its not. To make generalisations about a model you need a much larger sample size

In Jamboo defence, I've done over 60k and in the dozens of times the car has been back to lexus Leicester, have driven lots of 220d and all have very simular mpg (30-33). There are now lots of people with bad mpg figures, I think I have only seen 2 from England but perhaps they all use Honestjohn!!! :shutit:

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Right - mine is fixed. 20k service completed and new "pipes" installed - the original ones were clogged up. Economy is a heady 29 in town and 40 without trying on my 60 mile run today.

Hopefully this will last. If it doesn't, then it goes before 3 years up! That's the final verdict.

I am astonished that one or 2 individuals on here are almost implying I'm causing grief - well I can tell you I'm not. That has never been an intention - it's not me with a problem but you and your perception due to a lack of reading my previous posts.

I have several times commended the 250 Auto, and even my car when we took on a our of the Lakes and Scotland in August 2006. The car achieved 48mpg! I posted how satisfied I was with the car.

I am testing th new A4 2.0TDi, I have half a day booked (at some pain). I'll post on how it compares!

Also 06G220d - how do you know the poll is biased? What evidence do you have to be so sure of it??? Sorry mate but I can poopoo your view as much as you can poo mine!

[philthy]

Driving mine like an old codger for the last few days to see what fuel economy I could realise around town resulted in 33.8mpg max. If the traffic is really heavy it drops almost immediately due to that rubbish first gear. Now I'm bored sick doing it so will be resorting back to how the car should be driven. I estimate I'd get around 430 mile to a tank driving around town like I'm on sleeping pills. No more I tell you, no more!

[dgman]

Right - mine is fixed. 20k service completed and new "pipes" installed - the original ones were clogged up. Economy is a heady 29 in town and 40 without trying on my 60 mile run today.

Hopefully this will last. If it doesn't, then it goes before 3 years up! That's the final verdict.

I am astonished that one or 2 individuals on here are almost implying I'm causing grief - well I can tell you I'm not. That has never been an intention - it's not me with a problem but you and your perception due to a lack of reading my previous posts.

I have several times commended the 250 Auto, and even my car when we took on a our of the Lakes and Scotland in August 2006. The car achieved 48mpg! I posted how satisfied I was with the car.

I am testing th new A4 2.0TDi, I have half a day booked (at some pain). I'll post on how it compares!

Also 06G220d - how do you know the poll is biased? What evidence do you have to be so sure of it??? Sorry mate but I can poopoo your view as much as you can poo mine!

are you going to ask audi to brim the a4 so that you can true mpg figures.

[FinLex]

Got my 5th injector changed today due to the recall. First trip, about 90 miles A and B roads, returned 50.4 MPG. Not a big change from what I'm used to, but maybe a bit better than usual. At least it didn't get worse!

[06G220D]

Also 06G220d - how do you know the poll is biased? What evidence do you have to be so sure of it??? Sorry mate but I can poopoo your view as much as you can poo mine!

As I have already posted -

sample size is too small

responding population is biased

Poll organiser invited responses from persons with negative experiences

Poll organsiser not interested in others experiences - posted "can only go on my own experience"

Poll results not mirrored elsewhere

There's plenty of information out there about getting representative samples for surveys.

It's not rocket science just Statistics 101.

[dgman]

Got my 5th injector changed today due to the recall. First trip, about 90 miles A and B roads, returned 50.4 MPG. Not a big change from what I'm used to, but maybe a bit better than usual. At least it didn't get worse!

did your dealer explain why they needed to change it.

[dgman]

Also 06G220d - how do you know the poll is biased? What evidence do you have to be so sure of it??? Sorry mate but I can poopoo your view as much as you can poo mine!

As I have already posted -

sample size is too small

responding population is biased

Poll organiser invited responses from persons with negative experiences

Poll organsiser not interested in others experiences - posted "can only go on my own experience"

Poll results not mirrored elsewhere

There's plenty of information out there about getting representative samples for surveys.

It's not rocket science just Statistics 101.

jamboo seems to ignore any posts relating to the competition and their latest engines.i think he needs to test his a4 to the same exacting way as he does the lex. same goes for philthy.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

I do ignore mag tests - 'cos the MPG figure they give is normally based on what they got after they thrashed it. That ain't real world.

I haven't read the Autocar mag, but I reckon that is what it will be. If they did that to the IS, I wonder what it would have got...

I can only measure what it gives after I drive it...and I ain't so stupid that I would drive an a4 so gently that it blows the IS away - gis a break!

Bottom line is mine has had 2 lots of bits replaced since new around emissions/fuel consumption, plus 2-3 ECU reprogrammes. There is clearly something wrong with the cars, and Lexus are doing their best to resolve it.

ow seriously guys - is 25-29mpg from a diesel good? That's what most of us get in town in the UK...mine was as bad as 23 until yesterday!

So back to topic, is it really that bad, make up your own mind. I would still say go get the 250 Auto - ...!

[dgman]

I do ignore mag tests - 'cos the MPG figure they give is normally based on what they got after they thrashed it. That ain't real world.

I haven't read the Autocar mag, but I reckon that is what it will be. If they did that to the IS, I wonder what it would have got...

I can only measure what it gives after I drive it...and I ain't so stupid that I would drive an a4 so gently that it blows the IS away - gis a break!

Bottom line is mine has had 2 lots of bits replaced since new around emissions/fuel consumption, plus 2-3 ECU reprogrammes. There is clearly something wrong with the cars, and Lexus are doing their best to resolve it.

ow seriously guys - is 25-29mpg from a diesel good? That's what most of us get in town in the UK...mine was as bad as 23 until yesterday!

So back to topic, is it really that bad, make up your own mind. I would still say go get the 250 Auto - ...!

t.hey did test the is when it was launched it returned 37 same as merc.i think you said that when the competition started to use partical filters etc we may se similar figures from their vehicles.ido sympathise with your plight.

[jalfa]

Got my 5th injector changed today due to the recall. First trip, about 90 miles A and B roads, returned 50.4 MPG. Not a big change from what I'm used to, but maybe a bit better than usual. At least it didn't get worse!

A recall? By Lexus in Finland? Wonder if I get a recall too in Sweden?

50.4 MPG!? That must be around 0.6something litres/10km? I think I´m doing around 0.75 on motorway atm. (0.85 in town)

I will visit my Lexus dealer Friday when I´m home for sure.

[philthy]

jamboo seems to ignore any posts relating to the competition and their latest engines.i think he needs to test his a4 to the same exacting way as he does the lex. same goes for philthy.

Oh I see, because we have a different opinion to you we are wrong. For your info I've driven many deisel cars and as you put it, to the same exacting performance standards. The IS220D comes out the worst on economy and gearing. No debating it. It isn't the worst for comfort or performance and handling, but it isn't the best either. The 220 engine charactersitics are nowhere near as good as the D5s of Volvo or BMWs deisel offerings in my opinion. The Lexus dealerships I've had experience of are absolutely diabolical. I take great pleasure in telling everyone who asks about the car of my experience too.

You've got your opinion, Jamboo and I have ours. This isn't a fan club, it's a forum where varied viewpoints count. My view is the car isn't all it's hyped up to be and will be going after twelve months. Sooner, if I get a good deal on something else. And it definitely won't be another Lexus. Potential buyers should consider all the opposition before handing over £21k or more. There are better cars out there.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

I do ignore mag tests - 'cos the MPG figure they give is normally based on what they got after they thrashed it. That ain't real world.

I haven't read the Autocar mag, but I reckon that is what it will be. If they did that to the IS, I wonder what it would have got...

I can only measure what it gives after I drive it...and I ain't so stupid that I would drive an a4 so gently that it blows the IS away - gis a break!

Bottom line is mine has had 2 lots of bits replaced since new around emissions/fuel consumption, plus 2-3 ECU reprogrammes. There is clearly something wrong with the cars, and Lexus are doing their best to resolve it.

ow seriously guys - is 25-29mpg from a diesel good? That's what most of us get in town in the UK...mine was as bad as 23 until yesterday!

So back to topic, is it really that bad, make up your own mind. I would still say go get the 250 Auto - ...!

t.hey did test the is when it was launched it returned 37 same as merc.i think you said that when the competition started to use partical filters etc we may se similar figures from their vehicles.ido sympathise with your plight.

What do you mean you "Sypathise with my plight"?

Oh I see -you're referring to a test from what, 2 years ago when the IS came out? That would have been against the old C class - and was that renowned for fuel economy? I don't think so - in fact it had govt test figures almost the same as the IS from what I recall - it was the old 4 cylinder C class engine (150bhp?) which had been around for a while!

I would suggest you actually drive the new C220CDi and post an unbiased thread on what you think about how it compares overall. I have driven it twice, and previously posted exactly what I thought.

I always tell it like it is - I'm not here to impress anyone, but more importantly I'm not going to post advice on here which may make someone spend their money unwisely, which is why I always say - test the IS220d properly, compare it to other cars and then decide. That's where I believe the value of the experience of an owners club member/s comes into play.

If you have £20+K to spend and space is not a priority and you will consider an Auto then the IS250SE Auto is the perfect car...the Manual is OK, but as an Auto it is a proper Lexus, and from my experience almost as economical in overall terms as the IS220d...

I have no issues with my dealer - I use the Lexus Leicester (same as Philty and Harrydavey) - they have always been courteous and professional during all my episodes of despair and I am actually impressed with them!

One other thing - I do take some offence at being told that my poll was ecouraging bad input...people will see (if they bother to actually read the results) that many have no issues and loads of people are totally satisfied/would buy another. How can you see that? Because there are specific questions asking for those answers. You have to remember that some of us have had more warranty visits than we care to count and the poll was designed to see if my experiences (and those of a few more) are actually representative. If you think that these polls are not fit for purpose then contact the admin team and have them or the option of creating them removed!

If you seriously think that there are only a minority of cars with the problem, then Lexus would not have developed umpteen fixes to fix it! Simple fact.

If anyone wants an all "cuddly positive" poll then create one, no ones stopping you! May you basque in the sunshine...

To just poop the Poll as not having a sufficient sample frame is quite frankly silly. If anyone thinks they can do a better job, go ahead. Lets see if you can do a better job.

One very final thing...if you seriously knew that you would get 25-45MPG with a 220 diesel and 23-44MPG (both real world) with the 250 Auto, would you seriously have bought a diesel manual gearbox'd Lexus? So come on 06G220d and dgman, why did you buy it?

I am not going to get "jibed" out by people who ignore common sense and don't want anthing negative posted. And no I'm not even going to post my A4 resuts on this site because I feel hunted. Just grow up - and stop behaving like 3 year olds.

[nate73]

Right - mine is fixed. 20k service completed and new "pipes" installed - the original ones were clogged up. Economy is a heady 29 in town and 40 without trying on my 60 mile run today.

Hopefully this will last. If it doesn't, then it goes before 3 years up! That's the final verdict.

I am astonished that one or 2 individuals on here are almost implying I'm causing grief - well I can tell you I'm not. That has never been an intention - it's not me with a problem but you and your perception due to a lack of reading my previous posts.

I have several times commended the 250 Auto, and even my car when we took on a our of the Lakes and Scotland in August 2006. The car achieved 48mpg! I posted how satisfied I was with the car.

I am testing th new A4 2.0TDi, I have half a day booked (at some pain). I'll post on how it compares!

Also 06G220d - how do you know the poll is biased? What evidence do you have to be so sure of it??? Sorry mate but I can poopoo your view as much as you can poo mine!

Jamboo, Which pipes? I went into Lexus Liverpool yesterday, who are fantastic by the way. Had a long chat with the tech, he explained from day one the problems have been caused by the coking of the components. He showed me the modified injector, it has one large slit rather than the two small small ones on the pre-mod version which was prone to coke blockage (Showed me one of those too!). As mine had its 5th injector done in January and also has the latest flash code he agreed to basically change out all the parts that he's had to replace on other cars with problems - egr valve (Coking causes it to stay open) etc and see if that improves it.

I think this could come down to the fuel used, I'm using v-power diesel so theoretically once the parts are changed there should be no more coking at all within the engine. I would be interested to hear from the guys in Finland, Sweden what sulfur content they use as I'm pretty sure that all their standard diesel is of the low sulfur variety, which would explain the massive differences on mpg.

This may also offer an explanation as to why people are seeing short term improvements - 5th injector replaced, standard diesel used re-coking of the injector, low mpg. Who knows for sure, but once all this work is done if there's no improvement it'll be a change of car for me, which is a shame because other than the mpg issue I love the IS.

[philthy]

If I buy a deisel it is because I have one eye on economy no matter whether fuel costs matter to me or not. If the 220 is no better or barely better than the 250 on mpg then what is the point of it? May as well have the 250 and enjoy the performance, which the 220 lacks.

Re Lexus Leicester; let's say they have a lot of bridges to repair with me Jamboo and having been ripped off for the car kit, (which was £295 not £250 as originally thought against £99 from Halfords), and attempting to rip me off for the tow-bar as well as the never to be received promises, I don't think I can ever trust them again. My salesman and the finance manager were fine, but they were let down by the back up team. You never get a second chance to create a first impression. Lexus Leicester did and they still cocked it up.

[FinLex]

did your dealer explain why they needed to change it.

The main reason was said to be avoiding the limp home mode situations, which are a result of coking of the 5th injector.

[FinLex]

A recall? By Lexus in Finland? Wonder if I get a recall too in Sweden?

50.4 MPG!? That must be around 0.6something litres/10km? I think I´m doing around 0.75 on motorway atm. (0.85 in town)

I will visit my Lexus dealer Friday when I´m home for sure.

Yep. Just Finland, it seems. At least no one else has mentioned anything here. 50.4 MPG is 5.6 litres per 100 km which of course is 0.56 litres per 10 km.

[FinLex]

Jamboo,

Again, I think your poll is very good. In fact, it's about as good as it gets with the tools at hand. Still, it's selective on many levels. The first selection is that only people with an Internet connection can apply. Okay, maybe that's a bit trivial nowadays, but that's just an example. There are many more.

The poll tells us that it's not just one or two owners with MPG problems, but it doesn't really tell us, what percentage of 220d owners is actually struggling with them. And of course, it tells us nothing about the reason why people are getting poor mileage.

So, the poll is a good thing, but it's not the absolute truth (if there is such a thing). I really hope we can all agree on this.

[FinLex]

I think this could come down to the fuel used, I'm using v-power diesel so theoretically once the parts are changed there should be no more coking at all within the engine. I would be interested to hear from the guys in Finland, Sweden what sulfur content they use as I'm pretty sure that all their standard diesel is of the low sulfur variety, which would explain the massive differences on mpg.

This could very well be the reason or at least one of them. Since 2004, all diesel fuel sold in Finland has been ultra-low on sulfur. The EN590 standard allows diesel to include 0.01 mass percent of sulfur, whereas the national limit in Finland is 0.001 or below.

[06G220D]

One very final thing...if you seriously knew that you would get 25-45MPG with a 220 diesel and 23-44MPG (both real world) with the 250 Auto, would you seriously have bought a diesel manual gearbox'd Lexus? So come on 06G220d and dgman, why did you buy it?

I am not going to get "jibed" out by people who ignore common sense and don't want anthing negative posted. And no I'm not even going to post my A4 resuts on this site because I feel hunted. Just grow up - and stop behaving like 3 year olds.

I am getting 38-42mpg consistently on my usual mix of driving. Better on long runs obviously. So I am getting what I expected and I am happy.

Interesting comment elsewhere about low sulphur diesel. The manual recommended to only use low sulphur diesel and, on buying the car, I checked to see which brands in Ireland are low suphur. The answer I got is that they are all low sulphur now.

As I have posted before, but it seems to need repeating for some readers, I feel, that over time, this forum became biased toward negative comment. Does the heading on this thread, "Are they really that bad?". not support that interpretation. Why would someone post a thread like that if that was not the message the forum is conveying to them? And don't they have the right to know that there are many happy is220d owners out there? Let them make their decision using heir own success criteria and all the facts, not just a selection of the facts. And finally, what offends me is being repeatedly told that my experiences are not valid or being told that I don't live in the "real world."

[Harrydavy]

did your dealer explain why they needed to change it.

The main reason was said to be avoiding the limp home mode situations, which are a result of coking of the 5th injector.

I hope you have better luck than me! My car has gone in to limp home twice since the 5th jet mod!!

[FinLex]

I hope you have better luck than me! My car has gone in to limp home twice since the 5th jet mod!!

I hope so, too. For a while, I considered not taking it in. If it ain't broken... In the end, I decided to trust that Lexus Finland knows better than me. Coming to think about it, I should have taken the old injector so they could put it back if the new one doesn't work! But so far so good.

[simple signman]

Being a newbie to Lexus - 3 weeks and 1800 miles - I've read the comments on here with interest and wasn't going to post a reply as my views may not be considered as valid as someone who's driven an IS220d for 2 years but I've driven Audi's (A4's & A6's) for the past 9 years and fancied a change to something less mainstream and felt that I had to make my experience of the IS220d known.

Is the IS220d as economical as the A4/A6? No, but I've got an average of 39.6mpg (actual) with 70% motorway & 30% London driving which I don't think is bad.

Is it as responsive as the A4/A6? In 1st gear it gives a few panic moments but once I'm on the move I've found that it picks up better.

Is it better to drive than the A4? Well, I enjoy driving it more than the Audi - the comfort in the cabin is better, it's much quieter, the toys are better and it stands out more in the car park at work, at customers car parks and at home.

All in all I'm a happy, contented IS220d driver - sure I could get better responsiveness if I'd bought a BMW and better economy if I'd bought the A4 or the Volvo but that's not why I bought the Lexus - I knew when I signed on the dotted line that it wasn't the best performer in every area but as an overall package I think it takes a lot of beating & I for one would recommend it to someone who wanted a good looking, well engineered, well specified car that they'd enjoy driving. If economy was their overriding criteria when choosing a new car then no, the IS220d isn't for them - but I'd have to ask why they were looking at it in the first place.

Guy