Are They Really That Bad

[Parthiban]

I was getting 23ish mpg in town consistently

Ok mate that is horrendous economy, now that I'm on optimax, and if I drive gently around town, I think I could get 23mpg out of my IS200, and that's a particularly thirsty car............to be completely fair, having read everything you've been through, I think yours has to have been a dud car, that many faults are just too many, and if it had been me probably would have cut my losses and swapped to an IS250 just to make life that little bit more relaxing...... :shutit:

But you're right, I so badly want to drive one now - I don't get the gearing thing though, isn't it obvious from a test drive if the gearing is not the way you want it? I understand there are some things you only notice after driving a car for a while, but odd gearing and power delivery surely would be obvious straight away?

I've got to say that both on paper and from my experience, if I ever went crazy and decided I wanted a diesel, it would have to be a BMW, they're simply unmatched when it comes to diesels...........

[nate73]

VrrmVrrm - I'm gonna spit the Bone out with the Dummy :o but before I do, there is the point that if it is the Sulphuric content, then Toyota should have known how this engine would behave against the sulphur in the derv here...also - is the AVensis, RAV4 and Corolla Verso experiencing this issue? Not that I've seen...

Anyway - time for another Thread. Just a big thanks to all for an amazingly lively debate....nothing personal intended or taken (hopefully)...it's all in the pursuit of perfection (where have I heard that before)

NBLG - shucks mate - you've forced my closet doors open

Jamboo, The 180 bhp D4D verso is having exactly the same problem. The 140bhp version doesn't have the DPNR system. Guess thats why there is a big red sticker saying low sulfur only on my tank flap!

[06G220D]

The mentions of low suphur diesel as an issue has me wondering if that could be the reason why some owners are getting such poor economy. However for several reasons I would be very surprised if this is the root cause of the problem.

Firstly, I am sure Lexus can tell which diesel is being used and could have identified that themselves fairly easily.

Secondly, they know and have advised that the car should only be run on low suphur diesel, so they have "an out" if the low suphour diesel is the culprit. For example, if someone damaged a petrol car by putting in diesel the liability would fall on the owner/user. Why then would Lexus accept liability if IS220D owners aren't following the operating instructions. It was clearly stated in the handbook and the fuel filler cap also has a prominent sign - all advising low suphur diesel. So for that reason I think it most unlikely that wrong diesel is the issue.

Thirdly, before I bought my previous car, an avensis 2.0 d4d I enquired about getting the newer d-cat engine advertised in the UK but it was not available in Ireland at that time because low suphur diesel was not widely available then. My understanding is that the d4d engine is not as clean as the d-cat (Diesel Clean Advanced Technology) which can only run on low-sulphur diesel. It would be amazing if low suphur diesel is now less widely available in UK than it was 4 years ago.

It will be interesting to see how this progresses.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Parthiban - on the face of it it's not too bad...but I would ignore what anyone tells you OR what the books say...having said that....

Some of the cars are so far off the official test results for MPG, it seems un-believable....

Until Monday and prior to the new pipes/remap, I was getting 23ish mpg in town consistently, and at best 40 mpg on a motorway run at 70mph with Cruise and AC off. Since then I'm seeing 26-29 in town and 39 (!) on a run....it seems better in town than on a Motorway. I've done 270 miles this week, and the trip shows me 38.5mpg as of this morning...and remember - I was getting mid-high 40's when the car was running in and until 5500 miles...even when fully loaded...

You really have to drive it over a period of time and then decide. You have to be sure about the gearing, and whilst I've been told it's sorted, the 5th Injector problems, pipes Coking up...hopefully the newer ones are sorted out now...

Bottom line is that the Jury is still out on mine and I will perservere for a few weeks and then let the Garage know if it really has worked or not... Nuff said...like I say - go test drive one....only you can decide!!

Jamboo, The problem of coking wont occur/re-occur if the correct fuel is used. It only takes 4000 to 5000 miles for components to become clogged. If you use either BP Ultimate or Shell v-power it will clean any contaminated part it comes into contact with over the same distance. I've now done over 2000 miles on v-power and there is a noticable reduction on vibration at lower rev's, so much in fact I can now even use 6th on the motorway!. I'm still holding judgement on the mpg issue until lexus have replaced the egr valve and other bits. I should theorectically see an improvement immediately.

On another note, guy I know dropped into the office this morning. He runs an accord 2.2ctdi and get 650 miles before the fuel light comes on - all motorway! He is a bit old mind - probably 65mph!

This may well be the reason, but I haven't read anywhere in the Lexus bumph which states that we should only use V power, BP Ultim, Total Excellium etc. If ths is the reason then I would say that there is a fundamental design flaw!

However, to balance this, I did ask the question and was told that once the pipes and bits and bobs have been replaced and the new software on the ECU applied the problem will not re-occur. I'm taking that at face value - my dealership knows that I know where they are if it goes to pot again... There is no mention of using any specific fuels...thank *** - it's expensive enough as it is!

Anyway - the pipe and engine re-map should have sorted it out. I did hear something somewhere a while back about someone having to have the engine de-coked... now that is worrying. Was it HarryDavey or Adrian Pearce? Or someone else???

I don't know how these "breathing difficulties" may have had any adverse long term impact. I seem to recall from years ago that breather pipe blockages notmally resulted in all sorts of valve problems in the long run (or was it head problems that caused breather pipe blockages???)...Again, I don't know if these components are related, or whether I'm talking cack again...anyone know?

Also, I did see an artical in the Whatcar mag about super fuels, and what benefits they gave. Believe or not - NONE - it could be a placebo!

PS - there is a standard for the amount of sulphur in fuels...I can't believe Lexus would have an "out" unless they are spacific about what sulphur content should be used. There is a BS standard and the car should either work with that standard or Lexus should stipulate it....The Petrol and Diesel point is sort of Valid - but every handbook will state (alongn with the sticker in the petrol flap) what fuels should be used, RON value etc. So the "out" there would be valid. No one has told me that I can only use a specific Sulphur content...

Is it worth asking LGB?

[Matus]

On another note, guy I know dropped into the office this morning. He runs an accord 2.2ctdi and get 650 miles before the fuel light comes on - all motorway! He is a bit old mind - probably 65mph!

Don't forget that this engine has 35HP less than D4D 180k

I bet that with D4D 150k you would get similar result. My friend has avensis and he is constantly around 47mpg.

[06G220D]

JThis may well be the reason, but I haven't read anywhere in the Lexus bumph which states that we should only use power, BP Ultim, Total Excellium etc. If ths is the reason then I would say that there is a fundamental design flaw!

PS - there is a standard for the amount of sulphur in fuels...I can't believe Lexus would have an "out" unless they are spacific about what sulphur content should be used.

There is a BS standard and the car should either work with that standard or Lexus should stipulate it....The Petrol and Diesel point is sort of Valid - but every handbook will state (alongn with the sticker in the petrol flap) what fuels should be used, RON value etc. So the "out" there would be valid. No one has told me that I can only use a specific Sulphur content...

Lexus have, in fact, specified the Sulphur Content. My Owner's Manual states that the diesel must "contain 50ppm or less of suphur." Fuel Specifications, p. 375. This specification is also given under Refuelling on p49.

By the way, low suphur diesel is 50ppm or less of sulphur, while Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel is 10ppm or less.

From Wikipedia

At the European Union level, the “Euro IV” standard applies since 2005, which specifies 50 ppm maximum quantity of sulfur in diesel fuel for most highway vehicles[1]; ultra-low sulfur diesel with a maximum of 10 ppm of sulfur must “be available” from 2005 and is actually widely available. A final target (to be confirmed by the European Commission) of 2009 for the final reduction of sulfur to 10 ppm, which will be considered the entry into force of the Euro V fuel standard. In 2009, diesel fuel for most non-highway applications is also expected to conform to the Euro V standard for fuel. Various exceptions exist for certain uses and applications, most of which are being phased out over a period of several years. In particular, the so-called EU accession countries (primarily in Eastern Europe), have been granted certain temporary exemptions to allow for transition. Certain EU countries may apply higher standards or require faster transition.[2] For example, Germany implemented a tax incentive of €0.015 per litre of "sulphur free" fuel (both gasoline and diesel) containing less than 10 ppm beginning in January, 2003 and average sulphur content was estimated in 2006 to be 3-5 ppm. Similar measures have been enacted in most of the Nordic countries, Benelux, Ireland and the United Kingdom to encourage early adoption of the 50 ppm and 10 ppm fuel standards.[3

I'm not sure if EU rules apply in the real world!

[dgman]

If there's one thing this thread has done, it's made me want to try an IS220d really badly! I hate diesels with a vengence, so it would automatically be on the back foot, but I've got to see if it's really as bad as it comes off on this site!

I've only ever driven one diesel, an A3 1.9TDI when my IS200 got stolen a few years ago, and I absolutely hated it. There wasn't a single thing about it that was good and made me miss the lex even more..............the worst part was that when I drove it the way I drive the IS (that gets me around 21mpg), I was only getting around 30-35mpg out of the A3, which is a much smaller car.

This is where I wonder why everyone whines about the economy so much, the audi had 110bhp, so why is 35mpg around town in an almost 2 ton car with 177bhp bad??!!!

But as I haven't driven one, I'm not going to imply anything about what anyone has said so far, but I'm sure as hell going to drive one at the first opportunity I get - may even request to borrow one for the day when I get my car serviced in a few months.........

you had better tell jamboo,he thinks audis are the holy grail of fuel economy.

[dgman]

Parthiban - on the face of it it's not too bad...but I would ignore what anyone tells you OR what the books say...having said that....

Some of the cars are so far off the official test results for MPG, it seems un-believable....

Until Monday and prior to the new pipes/remap, I was getting 23ish mpg in town consistently, and at best 40 mpg on a motorway run at 70mph with Cruise and AC off. Since then I'm seeing 26-29 in town and 39 (!) on a run....it seems better in town than on a Motorway. I've done 270 miles this week, and the trip shows me 38.5mpg as of this morning...and remember - I was getting mid-high 40's when the car was running in and until 5500 miles...even when fully loaded...

You really have to drive it over a period of time and then decide. You have to be sure about the gearing, and whilst I've been told it's sorted, the 5th Injector problems, pipes Coking up...hopefully the newer ones are sorted out now...

Bottom line is that the Jury is still out on mine and I will perservere for a few weeks and then let the Garage know if it really has worked or not... Nuff said...like I say - go test drive one....only you can decide!!

Jamboo, The problem of coking wont occur/re-occur if the correct fuel is used. It only takes 4000 to 5000 miles for components to become clogged. If you use either BP Ultimate or Shell v-power it will clean any contaminated part it comes into contact with over the same distance. I've now done over 2000 miles on v-power and there is a noticable reduction on vibration at lower rev's, so much in fact I can now even use 6th on the motorway!. I'm still holding judgement on the mpg issue until lexus have replaced the egr valve and other bits. I should theorectically see an improvement immediately.

On another note, guy I know dropped into the office this morning. He runs an accord 2.2ctdi and get 650 miles before the fuel light comes on - all motorway! He is a bit old mind - probably 65mph!

try the diesel power sport 4,it will give you everything v power does but at £1.20 a tankfull.i use it in my 220d.

[nate73]

try the diesel power sport 4,it will give you everything v power does but at £1.20 a tankfull.i use it in my 220d.

Using v-power diesel only costs me £3.50 a tank more than regular diesel. I'd rather pay the extra £2.30 over DPS4 and have a preventative fuel. I worked out that at £15 a month extra its worth it - I think!!!

[dgman]

clearly it is not working for you so why do you think it is worth the extra.

[nate73]

clearly it is not working for you so why do you think it is worth the extra.

As I said in an earlier post, 2000+ miles with v-power has greatly reduced vibrations at lower revs, it runs much smoother than it did and I expect it to get better over time. Thats why I think its worth it, and I also dont have to carry a bottle of additive in the boot for each refill! At the end of the day its only costing me £8 a month more than it would to use DPS4.

I think you are missing my point, v-power or any of the other so called 'super fuels' don't claim to have massive mpg increases, you'll be lucky to get 25miles (2-3%) extra per tank. This is about using the recomended fuel to keep the engine clean and emmissions (Sulfur, NOx & PM) low, thereby keeping the work the exhaust system has to do to a minimum. All I'm saying is that if the engine and attached components are clean, the car may after all be able to do what it says on the tin. After all if someone said you had to use fully-synthetic oil you would wouldn't you? Whats the difference with the fuel?

But then again, I may be back on here ranting next week!!!

[dgman]

i saw improvements with dps4,but my main point being with the 2mpg increase it pays for itself.also find keener throttle response.when you refer to vibrations in 6th have you had the rear axle bush replaced with the modified one.

[nate73]

i saw improvements with dps4,but my main point being with the 2mpg increase it pays for itself.also find keener throttle response.when you refer to vibrations in 6th have you had the rear axle bush replaced with the modified one.

Eeek! Haven't heard that one before! I'll ask on wednesday when I drop it off.

[dgman]

mine was done about 9 month ago. are the symptons like thrummmm inside the cabin.had mine done at lex coventry tel 02476518100.hope this helps.

[nate73]

mine was done about 9 month ago. are the symptons like thrummmm inside the cabin.had mine done at lex coventry tel 02476518100.hope this helps.

Yeah, spot on. As I said earlier, it has reduced over the past 2000 odd miles, but as this a known fault I'll get them to have a look. They do seem quite keen to sort the problem if they can. Can't fault the dealer at all.

Cheers for the info.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

OK guys:

Firstly - Parthiban, you are absolutely correct - when I tested the car, it was one of the first one to hit these shores, it had 70 miles on the clock. The car was effectively brand new and very "tight". It was my fault - I only had one hours test drive and any comments about the car feeling lethargic were understandable at it was so new. It was impossible to pick up the gearing issue in those conditions or an accurate MPG reading. This is hy I say over and over again to anyone considering - buy with your yes wide open. And if a Salesman says it'll improv when it gets to 10,000, ask him you want to prove that!

We specifically bought a Lexus to keep long term, and 6 years it will be. I'm not going to chuck money away like this when I can invest it and watch it grow...

2ndly - dgman - I have never stated that 30-35mpg in town is bad and some of your single line comments seem a bit like you're having a dig. In fact 30-35 is excellent - some Petrol cars give that too. I could normally (until monday gone) never get anywhere near that. Audi's were my holy grail - my previous A4 TDi averaged well over 50mpg in total , at the pumps over 3 years, as my driving is almost 90% motorway and fast A road. A colleague with an A4 TDi 170 is averaging 42+ mpg day in day out - and he drives it like he don't care about how many revs he pulls.

3rdly - this whole thing about Sulphur content...why has it taken over 2 years to deduce this IF it is true? Why are not all cars affected? And what does it mean to us when it talks in ppm's of Sulphur? Which fuels comply and which don't? Why couldn't they design a car that was fit for purpose, would work with normal fuels and didn't grind to an almost halt (as in some cases with Safe modes reported here and in the Mags)...? If I bought a Scooby, an Evo or a Lambo I could understand it. This ain't no performanc car...No one has stated to me that I need to use anything other than rgular BS standard fuels - not even after the fix this week. In fact, as stated prviously, I have been told it will NOT happen again due to the new modified components...!

You could all be wasting your money on expensive fuels!

[nate73]

OK guys:

Firstly - Parthiban, you are absolutely correct - when I tested the car, it was one of the first one to hit these shores, it had 70 miles on the clock. The car was effectively brand new and very "tight". It was my fault - I only had one hours test drive and any comments about the car feeling lethargic were understandable at it was so new. It was impossible to pick up the gearing issue in those conditions or an accurate MPG reading. This is hy I say over and over again to anyone considering - buy with your yes wide open. And if a Salesman says it'll improv when it gets to 10,000, ask him you want to prove that!

We specifically bought a Lexus to keep long term, and 6 years it will be. I'm not going to chuck money away like this when I can invest it and watch it grow...

2ndly - dgman - I have never stated that 30-35mpg in town is bad and some of your single line comments seem a bit like you're having a dig. In fact 30-35 is excellent - some Petrol cars give that too. I could normally (until monday gone) never get anywhere near that. Audi's were my holy grail - my previous A4 TDi averaged well over 50mpg in total , at the pumps over 3 years, as my driving is almost 90% motorway and fast A road. A colleague with an A4 TDi 170 is averaging 42+ mpg day in day out - and he drives it like he don't care about how many revs he pulls.

3rdly - this whole thing about Sulphur content...why has it taken over 2 years to deduce this? Why are not all cars affected? And what dos it mean to us when it talks in ppm's of Sulphur? Which fuels comply and which don't? Why couldn't they design somthing that was fit for purpose and didn't grind to an almost halt (as in some cases)...?

Jamboo,

I tested the car in exactly the same way as you. You're right that its impossible to deduce mpg etc on test, far to busy with the toys! I intended to keep mine for 4-5 yrs also, but at £6-700 a year extra in fuel it may be worth taking a hit and changing. I'll wait to see what improvement I get after the work is done.

From what I can deduce, most 220d's (GB) are affected it's just that most people dont complain, the lexus tech I spoke to says all 220d's that he sees show 35 ish mpg. I'm one of the few to actual complain about it at the dealership. The ones he's worked on were completely coked up. It's not purely about the sulphur content, the cleaning agents in the fuel contribute. I am using v-power purely because the D4D DCAT was developed in collaberation with shell. This is the fuel they tested in London with the avensis D4D DCAT to prove the emmisons claim. 60% lower Nox, 40% lower PM etc, just a shame that we purely use CO2 for tax purposes. As others have said, once the other marks have to comply with euro V (2009?) maybe the 50+ mpg days will be over for everyone using diesel and it will be time to switch back to petrol. As I've said before I'd be happy with 42mpg but I've never once seen above 40mpg and that was driving like a granny.

[dgman]

OK guys:

Firstly - Parthiban, you are absolutely correct - when I tested the car, it was one of the first one to hit these shores, it had 70 miles on the clock. The car was effectively brand new and very "tight". It was my fault - I only had one hours test drive and any comments about the car feeling lethargic were understandable at it was so new. It was impossible to pick up the gearing issue in those conditions or an accurate MPG reading. This is hy I say over and over again to anyone considering - buy with your yes wide open. And if a Salesman says it'll improv when it gets to 10,000, ask him you want to prove that!

We specifically bought a Lexus to keep long term, and 6 years it will be. I'm not going to chuck money away like this when I can invest it and watch it grow...

2ndly - dgman - I have never stated that 30-35mpg in town is bad and some of your single line comments seem a bit like you're having a dig. In fact 30-35 is excellent - some Petrol cars give that too. I could normally (until monday gone) never get anywhere near that. Audi's were my holy grail - my previous A4 TDi averaged well over 50mpg in total , at the pumps over 3 years, as my driving is almost 90% motorway and fast A road. A colleague with an A4 TDi 170 is averaging 42+ mpg day in day out - and he drives it like he don't care about how many revs he pulls.

3rdly - this whole thing about Sulphur content...why has it taken over 2 years to deduce this IF it is true? Why are not all cars affected? And what does it mean to us when it talks in ppm's of Sulphur? Which fuels comply and which don't? Why couldn't they design a car that was fit for purpose, would work with normal fuels and didn't grind to an almost halt (as in some cases with Safe modes reported here and in the Mags)...? If I bought a Scooby, an Evo or a Lambo I could understand it. This ain't no performanc car...No one has stated to me that I need to use anything other than rgular BS standard fuels - not even after the fix this week. In fact, as stated prviously, I have been told it will NOT happen again due to the new modified components...!

You could all be wasting your money on expensive fuels!

jamboo i am not having a digg at you or anybody else.parthiban said that the audi a3 1.9 tdi was poor on economy. my own experiance of golf gti 150 diesel after 3years 43mpg.i have looked today at audi.com forum and some others,the guys on there are complaining about mpg of the a4 tdi 170.this is the model that should be compared to the is220d and no other.maybe ppm is parts per million.

[06G220D]

3rdly - this whole thing about Sulphur content...why has it taken over 2 years to deduce this IF it is true? Why are not all cars affected? And what does it mean to us when it talks in ppm's of Sulphur? Which fuels comply and which don't? Why couldn't they design a car that was fit for purpose, would work with normal fuels and didn't grind to an almost halt (as in some cases with Safe modes reported here and in the Mags)...? If I bought a Scooby, an Evo or a Lambo I could understand it. This ain't no performanc car...No one has stated to me that I need to use anything other than rgular BS standard fuels - not even after the fix this week. In fact, as stated prviously, I have been told it will NOT happen again due to the new modified components...!

You could all be wasting your money on expensive fuels!

ppm is parts per million. Its a standard abbreviation and a google would have found the answer in an instant.

As to which fuels comply and which don't. Actually, my note on Low Sulphur fuel explained that since 2005 all diesel sold in UK should be compliant. It said - "Similar measures have been enacted in most of the Nordic countries, Benelux, Ireland and the United Kingdom to encourage early adoption of the 50 ppm and 10 ppm fuel standards." On that basis I don't believe Sulphur is an issue.

As regards why Lexus didn't "design a car that was fit for purpose, would work with normal fuels". Why do you automatically assume Lexus have done something wrong. Low Sulphur Diesel is normal fuel. They did tell you that you could only use Low Suphur Diesel. If you did not read the Owner's Handbook I don't understand why you think that is the fault of Lexus.

You are making very heavy weather of something fairly basic.

I know, I know - I am probably foolish trying to introduce some actual facts into this thread.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Oh boy...I give up - 18th word in from left in para starting "3rdly" say's IF in capitals...so I assumed nothing, merely replied to the sentimnts around Sulphur...this thread is passed it's usefulness, and killed too much by "I know more than you" stuff. I really don't care - if pople are not interested then I'll carry on working with my dealer as appropriate to get at least mine fixed (- you your way, me mine).

In the meantime, some of us face the issue of having to pay to gt these fixed IF the final fix doesn't work when the warranty is out...that is the big poblem...I certainly won't - it'll end up as Pex somwhere for some poor Lexus fan to deal with (and it's rattles)

Lets move on.

[dgman]

Oh boy...I give up - 18th word in from left in para starting "3rdly" say's IF in capitals...so I assumed nothing, merely replied to the sentimnts around Sulphur...this thread is passed it's usefulness, and killed too much by "I know more than you" stuff. I really don't care - if pople are not interested then I'll carry on working with my dealer as appropriate to get at least mine fixed (- you your way, me mine).

In the meantime, some of us face the issue of having to pay to gt these fixed IF the final fix doesn't work when the warranty is out...that is the big poblem...I certainly won't - it'll end up as Pex somwhere for some poor Lexus fan to deal with (and it's rattles)

Lets move on.

so how is your fix shaping up.

[Barry Lavin]

Oh boy...I give up - 18th word in from left in para starting "3rdly" say's IF in capitals...so I assumed nothing, merely replied to the sentimnts around Sulphur...this thread is passed it's usefulness, and killed too much by "I know more than you" stuff. I really don't care - if pople are not interested then I'll carry on working with my dealer as appropriate to get at least mine fixed (- you your way, me mine).

In the meantime, some of us face the issue of having to pay to gt these fixed IF the final fix doesn't work when the warranty is out...that is the big poblem...I certainly won't - it'll end up as Pex somwhere for some poor Lexus fan to deal with (and it's rattles)

Lets move on.

so how is your fix shaping up.

Make love not war I say. I would be more concerned about the deafening silence from Lexus who are themselves not exactly beating down the walls to give answers. Maybe if they did it would end speculation.

On a lighter note,06G220d if you are saying that reading the owners manual( especially the MM book) is basic stuff then fair play to you, personally I have decided that it ranks up there with Ulysses and The Bible as a book not to attempt to read.

Personally, I couldnt give a toss about a few mpg here or there if they would fix my car properly. I certainly will not keep my car after the warranty has expired (just in case).

[06G220D]

On a lighter note,06G220d if you are saying that reading the owners manual( especially the MM book) is basic stuff then fair play to you, personally I have decided that it ranks up there with Ulysses and The Bible as a book not to attempt to read.

Actually, I was saying that knowing that the car should be run on Low Sulphur Diesel is basic. You don't even have to read the owner's handbook. To highlight the importance of using the correct diesel there is a bright red high visibility sticker inside the filler cap.

I understand that reading the Owner's Handbook is not anyones favourite pastime. However, you should bear in mind that failure to maintain the car in accordance with the owner's handbook can invalidate the warranty. If you are having trouble with the car and likely to be invoking the warranty, then you really should make sure you are doing everything that the handbook advises.

[ae92/ravoruva]

That's 17 complaints. How many potentially happy 220d owners that leaves? Thousands, I believe.

I must again remind: the official MPG figures are not Lexus' claims, but official test results. If your not matching them, it's because you're not driving in a similar way. I'm not saying you should, but if you don't, you can't really compare your mileage to the official numbers.

None of the cars you mentioned weight as much as 220d. I would guess none of them have a particulate filter, either. I'm sure none of them have the DeNOx technology that the 220d has. These things are easily forgotten, because they're not as obvious as the mileage, but still they are there.

Some people are bashing the engine-gearbox combo, some are not. Are you saying that the happy ones are wrong or lying? I know the 220d isn't the most fuel efficient car in its class, but combined with the weight, low emissions and torque, I'm pleased with the 47,1 MPG that I've received since new. Don't overgeneralise, please!

I could not say it better..

I do ignore mag tests - 'cos the MPG figure they give is normally based on what they got after they thrashed it. That ain't real world.

I haven't read the Autocar mag, but I reckon that is what it will be. If they did that to the IS, I wonder what it would have got...

I can only measure what it gives after I drive it...and I ain't so stupid that I would drive an a4 so gently that it blows the IS away - gis a break!

Bottom line is mine has had 2 lots of bits replaced since new around emissions/fuel consumption, plus 2-3 ECU reprogrammes. There is clearly something wrong with the cars, and Lexus are doing their best to resolve it.

ow seriously guys - is 25-29mpg from a diesel good? That's what most of us get in town in the UK...mine was as bad as 23 until yesterday!

So back to topic, is it really that bad, make up your own mind. I would still say go get the 250 Auto - ...!

t.hey did test the is when it was launched it returned 37 same as merc.i think you said that when the competition started to use partical filters etc we may se similar figures from their vehicles.ido sympathise with your plight.

What do you mean you "Sypathise with my plight"?

Oh I see -you're referring to a test from what, 2 years ago when the IS came out? That would have been against the old C class - and was that renowned for fuel economy? I don't think so - in fact it had govt test figures almost the same as the IS from what I recall - it was the old 4 cylinder C class engine (150bhp?) which had been around for a while!

I would suggest you actually drive the new C220CDi and post an unbiased thread on what you think about how it compares overall. I have driven it twice, and previously posted exactly what I thought.

I always tell it like it is - I'm not here to impress anyone, but more importantly I'm not going to post advice on here which may make someone spend their money unwisely, which is why I always say - test the IS220d properly, compare it to other cars and then decide. That's where I believe the value of the experience of an owners club member/s comes into play.

If you have £20+K to spend and space is not a priority and you will consider an Auto then the IS250SE Auto is the perfect car...the Manual is OK, but as an Auto it is a proper Lexus, and from my experience almost as economical in overall terms as the IS220d...

I have no issues with my dealer - I use the Lexus Leicester (same as Philty and Harrydavey) - they have always been courteous and professional during all my episodes of despair and I am actually impressed with them!

One other thing - I do take some offence at being told that my poll was ecouraging bad input...people will see (if they bother to actually read the results) that many have no issues and loads of people are totally satisfied/would buy another. How can you see that? Because there are specific questions asking for those answers. You have to remember that some of us have had more warranty visits than we care to count and the poll was designed to see if my experiences (and those of a few more) are actually representative. If you think that these polls are not fit for purpose then contact the admin team and have them or the option of creating them removed!

If you seriously think that there are only a minority of cars with the problem, then Lexus would not have developed umpteen fixes to fix it! Simple fact.

If anyone wants an all "cuddly positive" poll then create one, no ones stopping you! May you basque in the sunshine...

To just poop the Poll as not having a sufficient sample frame is quite frankly silly. If anyone thinks they can do a better job, go ahead. Lets see if you can do a better job.

One very final thing...if you seriously knew that you would get 25-45MPG with a 220 diesel and 23-44MPG (both real world) with the 250 Auto, would you seriously have bought a diesel manual gearbox'd Lexus? So come on 06G220d and dgman, why did you buy it?

I am not going to get "jibed" out by people who ignore common sense and don't want anthing negative posted. And no I'm not even going to post my A4 resuts on this site because I feel hunted. Just grow up - and stop behaving like 3 year olds.

Hi guys! First of all excuse me for my basic english.. :shutit:

I want to ask if you've received a letter of recall for the fifth injector from lexus?! It's strange but i did find nothing in the forum about it..

In france, there is a big recall for the IS220, In addition to the new fifth injector that was appeared on july 2007, they finally get a new ECU's reprogrammation which is the best according to lexus..

[philthy]

Mine has no bright red sticker in the filler flap. There's no evidence of one ever being there either.

I haven't been made aware of any official recall from Lexus. On purchase I asked my ever so reliable dealership if the car had had its fifth injector replaced. They said they'd get back to me. I'm still waiting for an answer. Wouldn't dare ask if there is an ECU recall; there's only so many excuses in the handbook you know.

The IS220d isn't bad, it's just not great. My own opinion is obviously tainted by the shoddy service I received from my dealer. It's hard to like something when you've been shafted. Even with the dealer issues set aside, I have to agree with Jamboo that the fuel economy of the car is not good unless you drive it like an old woman. If you drive it aggressively, but with mechanical sympathy to try and appreciate the torque and BHP, the MPG is worse than many petrol cars. And I still say the first gear ratio is pants.