How Not To Buy A Car

[Boothby Coggles]

I'm not sure whether this is the correct forum for this post, but as it ends with a question on the relative merits on the 220d v. the 250, it seems to be the right place.

If you'll bear with me, this is a bit of a saga, but I'll get to the question in due course.

I drive on a casual/ad hoc basis for my local Lexus dealer, and have been so taken by the cars that I traded my '01 Volvo S60SE in for a 200d, '06 with 24k on the clock. But, thereby hangs a tale!

Can I say at the outset, that as I was working for the garage, and it was a Lexus dealer where the staff were all friendly, etc., and being a franchised dealer I expected that they would be "hotfoot" in pursuit of perfection. Unfortunately, I should have picked a different salesman to deal with :duh: .

When I expressed my interest just before Christmas he brought a cadoxton 220d in to the workshop for me to have a look at. It was parked facing away from the entry door, and at the opposite end of the workshop. It looked fine & as I was at a quality dealer, not a forecourt portakabin, I felt that I didn't need to examine it. Likewise, I'd driven enough of them so I didn't need a test drive. The same applied at the handover – nice shiny car presented by a nice shiny salesman. However one thing he did was produce from his pocket 2 valve caps & said there had been 2 missing from the car. As I stood on the nearside he put them on those wheels & I duly drove off.

A bit over a month later I washed the car & noticed that the bonnet paintwork was marked, but didn't think it was particularly excessive for a used car, although I expected better of a Lexus dealer.

I washed the car again one Friday, at the beginning of February, but this time used my pressure washer. This was when I saw that there was extensive damage to the paintwork on the bonnet and front bumper/valance. This consisted of chips, many where the primer was visible. It was so bad it looked as if the car had been towed behind a grit-spreader.

The following Monday I went down to the garage to see the sales manager & found that the sales manager who had been in post when I bought the car had been moved to another dealership in the group, (not Lexus), and the new one had been moved in that day. I gave him a bit of grief, but in fairness to him, it was a problem that he'd had no involvement in. He referred me to the Centre Principal and showed him the car. After some discussion he suggested that they could "buff" it to see if this cured the problem. I agreed & arranged for a time when it would be done, but prior to this my son-in-law pointed out that the roof was also affected, but not quite so badly.

Anyway, the car was done, cleaned & polished & looked better. However, a couple of days later, on a Sunday, I ran the pressure washer over the front end. Lo & behold, the chips & primer were visible again! Maybe not quite so bad, but still obvious. Needless to say I was down the garage like a shot the next day & gave the sales manager both barrels. :megaangry: He was left in no doubt about my fury, but once again it was perhaps unfortunate for him that he'd inherited a problem that he'd had no involvement in.

Anyway, the Centre Principal rang me a day or two later, and after a chat he said they would replace the car for me, :D but it would take a couple of days of so to find one.

With hindsight it's apparent to me that the garage had a rogue salesman who, sometime before I hit the roof stopped working for them :winky: , and they were not party to his attempt to get a quick, easy sale. When he brought the car in to the workshop he possibly knew what it was like & brought it in where the light was not so good & I was less likely to see its condition. Also, the valve cap thing was no doubt to distract me from seeing that the nearside wheels had been kerbed & not repaired. Also, he didn't comply with Lexus, & no doubt company policy, as he never brought to my attention the handover certificate which we should both have signed. In fact this was "hidden" at the back of the book of documents which come with an "approved pre-owned" vehicle. Neither was the preparation check certificate signed.

Don't ask me to name the dealership, as I don't think it would be right to do so. They, as far as I'm concerned done the right & fair thing by offering to replace the car for me, with no real haggling or argument. Having said that they probably realised that if it had come to it, they would more than likely have lost if I had been forced in to going through the courts with an action under the Sale Of Goods Act, etc., which I boned up on just in case.

Now for the question. They are still trying to find another car me, & my inclination is to possibly to go for a 250 auto. The more I drive them the more I find that I prefer them to the diesel, and it does seem to be a fairly general opinion in the forum. The question I have is one of economics, as I don't do a lot of mileage, about 9k per year, a high proportion of which is short/town driving. There aren't many motorways round here, & not much dual carriageway either.

With a 250 am I likely to get better consumption than I did with my old Volvo S60, (the official consumption figures are more or less the same), which averaged 30mpg overall, and could more or less stretch to 35mpg on a good long rung, using motorways etc?

Thanks for your patience & tenacity for sticking with me to the end & I would appreciate your views.

(Not "silly prat" – I've already looked in the mirror & said that! ).

Boothby Coggles

[Northern Boys Luv Gravy]

With the mileage you do it's a no-brainer - get the IS250 Auto. You'll get a minimum of 29mpg, rising to 35 on a run.

[DJ Wozza]

I have no opinion on the deisel, but was very impresed with the IS250 Auto I had for 24 hours last year.

Yummy :D

Glad you seem to be getting this sorted now, & the dealer is behaving as well as should have been expexted first time.

Best of luck with your new car.

[Sagitar]

I'm sure you will find a number of owners on the site willing to give you good hard consumption figures for the IS250 auto.

In my own case I do mostly relatively short journeys (20 miles return) on country roads. A small amount of town driving and the occasional long motorway journey.

As you can see at the foot of this post my overall consumption from new (about 10,000 miles) is just under 30 m.p.g. This is a real figure obtained by recording every mile done and every gallon bought - it is not a car-computer figure.

On long motorway runs with the cruise control set to 70 m.p.h. I can get up to an indicated tank consumption of 40 m.p.g. but this is a car-computer figure and probably a bit optimistic.

Good luck.

[jalfa]

Now for the question. They are still trying to find another car me, & my inclination is to possibly to go for a 250 auto. The more I drive them the more I find that I prefer them to the diesel, and it does seem to be a fairly general opinion in the forum. The question I have is one of economics, as I don't do a lot of mileage, about 9k per year, a high proportion of which is short/town driving. There aren't many motorways round here, & not much dual carriageway either.

With a 250 am I likely to get better consumption than I did with my old Volvo S60, (the official consumption figures are more or less the same), which averaged 30mpg overall, and could more or less stretch to 35mpg on a good long rung, using motorways etc?

Thanks for your patience & tenacity for sticking with me to the end & I would appreciate your views.

(Not "silly prat" – I've already looked in the mirror & said that! ).

Boothby Coggles

What the others say - the 250 will be perfect for you.

Best of Luck

[Boothby Coggles]

I'm sure you will find a number of owners on the site willing to give you good hard consumption figures for the IS250 auto.

In my own case I do mostly relatively short journeys (20 miles return) on country roads. A small amount of town driving and the occasional long motorway journey.

As you can see at the foot of this post my overall consumption from new (about 10,000 miles) is just under 30 m.p.g. This is a real figure obtained by recording every mile done and every gallon bought - it is not a car-computer figure.

On long motorway runs with the cruise control set to 70 m.p.h. I can get up to an indicated tank consumption of 40 m.p.g. but this is a car-computer figure and probably a bit optimistic.

Good luck.

Thanks for your responses, guys & thanks for your info Sagitar - you seem to be in a similar situation to me as regards the sort of journeys you do. Not only that, it's nice to see that I'm not the only person who logs all of his mileage & fuel - but then my excuse is that I spent my childhood trainspotting .

When I got rid of the Volvo I wanted something a bit smaller that had better consumption, which is probably why, as much as anything, I went for the diesel. I did,as an experiment, manage to average about 39mpg yesterday on a 70m round trip on a road with its share of twists & bends, but it was hard work & the car didn't like it much!

Like many on here I'm not over impressed with it's economy, I did expect better. Maybe I should be pleased with that salesman, at least I have ended up with the chance to change to a 250 at no cost :D

Thanks again all

Boothby

[Steve ( West Mids )]

So you had the 22d just before Xmas and they haven't found a replacement yet? That doesn't sound right :(

I think the dealer has done the right thing offering to change it, but they did try and cover it up again ( no, no ).

Your question is a no-brainer, as others have suggested, go for the IS250 auto and enjoy the driving and get 30 to 32 mpg from it :) Make sure you double check the replacement, in the workshop and in the daylight ;)

[Boothby Coggles]

Hi, Steve

I haven't pressured them, other than yesterday when I went to see the sales manager. It needs to be borne in mind that I didn't tackle them about it until the start of February, so it hasn't been quite as long as it might seem.

When the Principal offered a replacement, (there was the opportunity to have my money back, but I opted for the car). When asked me what spec I wanted I told him that I didn't want black, (which was my original stipulation), but neither did I want cadoxton again . I said that mesa red would be good. Somehow, as is the way of these things, the sales manager was LED to understand that I wanted the same. From what he has said he has been having difficulty in finding one.

He now knows that I am now interested in a 250 auto, and that I don't want cadoxton. He says there is a closed auction next week, and he should be able to locate one, now that the choice is wider.

As you say, the 250 has to be the better option, particularly for my needs. However, my wife won't be happy about that - I got a very dirty look when I started talking about a 250 - she sees it as more powerful, but then she's nervous when driving her Micra.

They did, after the buffing, suggest a re-spray, but I quashed that and didn't get any hassle from them - I was immediately offered a replacement or cash-back, and opted for another car. (Do they do a two for the price of one I wonder ?).

I'll be over the replacement with a fine tooth comb, don't worry about that! However, I don't think they'd even consider another lemon. As I said originally, I'm more than happy that the garage, as a company, had no part in, or idea about, what the salesman was up to, but it must be said that it would seem that there were "management problems". The salesman was, as far as I am concerned, a loose cannon and isn't in a position to pull any more stunts there.

Thanks for your interest

Regards, Boothby

So you had the 22d just before Xmas and they haven't found a replacement yet? That doesn't sound right :(

I think the dealer has done the right thing offering to change it, but they did try and cover it up again ( no, no ).

Your question is a no-brainer, as others have suggested, go for the IS250 auto and enjoy the driving and get 30 to 32 mpg from it :) Make sure you double check the replacement, in the workshop and in the daylight ;)

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

I have my simple answer: Only you can answer the question. You have driven them, and for what it's worth the 250 Auto SE with MM is a perfect choice IMHO, I'd also recommend a lighter metallic as no matter what, the chips kep coming back...even Mesa Red looks peppered after less than 20k on the clock

[Boothby Coggles]

Thanks Jamboo

I certainly agree about the colour & am waiting to see what they come up with.

Trouble is, now that incompetent, extragavant, wastefulful, arrogant bunch of useless corrupt pollocks who think they are running, (not ruining ) the country seen to have thorwn a spanner in the works. The discussion about the new car tax bands has left me a bit confused as to whether the 250 will get the full larrapping of £400 & if so when. That then raises the question of whether or not to stay with diesel. But then again if I paid the £400 it would at least allow some poverty stricken & under-privileged MP to buy a rug for £300 and still have enough left for 2 shredders to get rid of incriminating paper

Regards

Boothby

I have my simple answer: Only you can answer the question. You have driven them, and for what it's worth the 250 Auto SE with MM is a perfect choice IMHO, I'd also recommend a lighter metallic as no matter what, the chips kep coming back...even Mesa Red looks peppered after less than 20k on the clock

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Don't forget the £6000 they can spend on the kitchen

Anyway - you do pose a serious question...I thought the days of car Tax costing more than Insurance would eventually come to me when I hit 60....no chance of that now

Even the Hybrids won't escape as far as I can tell, and anyone who has the GS, LS or RX non Hybs will pay for the MP's to have them bathrooms

I think Lexus may well have to re-strategise if they want to sell cars here beyond 2010/11. That applies tom all makers of cars with more 150grams of Co2.

Check it out here

The new car "showroom tax" makes you think back to "new car tax" we all paid a few years ago, and then VAT on top.

[dazed]

Trouble is, now that incompetent, extragavant, wastefulful, arrogant bunch of useless corrupt pollocks who think they are running, (not ruining ) the country seen to have thorwn a spanner in the works. The discussion about the new car tax bands has left me a bit confused as to whether the 250 will get the full larrapping of £400 & if so when. That then raises the question of whether or not to stay with diesel. But then again if I paid the £400 it would at least allow some poverty stricken & under-privileged MP to buy a rug for £300 and still have enough left for 2 shredders to get rid of incriminating paper

Go for the automatic, it's in a lower band than the manual (amazing fact but true).

[Boothby Coggles]

Trouble is, now that incompetent, extragavant, wastefulful, arrogant bunch of useless corrupt pollocks who think they are running, (not ruining ) the country seen to have thorwn a spanner in the works. The discussion about the new car tax bands has left me a bit confused as to whether the 250 will get the full larrapping of £400 & if so when. That then raises the question of whether or not to stay with diesel. But then again if I paid the £400 it would at least allow some poverty stricken & under-privileged MP to buy a rug for £300 and still have enough left for 2 shredders to get rid of incriminating paper

Go for the automatic, it's in a lower band than the manual (amazing fact but true).

That's what I thought - if it's to be a 250 then I'll have the auto - I was surprised that according to the official consumption figures it's better than the manual & barely different to my old Volvo S60. Not only that, but he more I drive an auto the more difficult I find it to understand why we still seem, in this country, to buy & drive manuals, especially now tiptronic type boxes are widely available.

Once again, guys (& guyesses) thanks for your input

Boothby

[Boothby Coggles]

Don't forget the £6000 they can spend on the kitchen

Anyway - you do pose a serious question...I thought the days of car Tax costing more than Insurance would eventually come to me when I hit 60....no chance of that now

Even the Hybrids won't escape as far as I can tell, and anyone who has the GS, LS or RX non Hybs will pay for the MP's to have them bathrooms

I think Lexus may well have to re-strategise if they want to sell cars here beyond 2010/11. That applies tom all makers of cars with more 150grams of Co2.

Check it out here

The new car "showroom tax" makes you think back to "new car tax" we all paid a few years ago, and then VAT on top.

Thanks for the link Jamboo - It tells me that a 250 auto is band L - £300 - same as my S60 - so no difference there either - guess the 250 auto has pulled further ahead of the 220d

[retyred]

Hi All. I'm new to the forum, but would like to add to this topic.

Firstly, last week I decided to replace my 4wd with an IS 220D Sport, pity I didn't go to the dealers then, because the value of my car has plumetted to the tune of several thousand in PX value following the budget.

Lexus dealer would not budge on trade in, so I will have to sell privately.

Having had a 220d Sport to drive yesterday morning, with MM, consequently today I ordered a new 220d Sport minus multi media courtesy of the low trade in issue. I guess the reversing camera is a novelty and my mileage is low and possess a very good touch screen TomTom.

Cutting to the chase having owned a 3.2 V6 with the inherent £400 Road Robbery, sorry, Tax. Thought I'd go back to diesel, I loved the car and can happily cope with the drop in power/acceleration, there's too many speed cameras and ANPR vans around here. Horses for courses.

Lexus also very kindly knocked off a couple of thousand on the new price facilitating a deal.

Look forward to picking it up before the end of the month.

[dgman]

Hi All. I'm new to the forum, but would like to add to this topic.

Firstly, last week I decided to replace my 4wd with an IS 220D Sport, pity I didn't go to the dealers then, because the value of my car has plumetted to the tune of several thousand in PX value following the budget.

Lexus dealer would not budge on trade in, so I will have to sell privately.

Having had a 220d Sport to drive yesterday morning, with MM, consequently today I ordered a new 220d Sport minus multi media courtesy of the low trade in issue. I guess the reversing camera is a novelty and my mileage is low and possess a very good touch screen TomTom.

Cutting to the chase having owned a 3.2 V6 with the inherent £400 Road Robbery, sorry, Tax. Thought I'd go back to diesel, I loved the car and can happily cope with the drop in power/acceleration, there's too many speed cameras and ANPR vans around here. Horses for courses.

Lexus also very kindly knocked off a couple of thousand on the new price facilitating a deal.

Look forward to picking it up before the end of the month.

congratulations on the purchase,what colour.

[philthy]

Don't forget the £6000 they can spend on the kitchen

Anyway - you do pose a serious question...I thought the days of car Tax costing more than Insurance would eventually come to me when I hit 60....no chance of that now

Even the Hybrids won't escape as far as I can tell, and anyone who has the GS, LS or RX non Hybs will pay for the MP's to have them bathrooms

I think Lexus may well have to re-strategise if they want to sell cars here beyond 2010/11. That applies tom all makers of cars with more 150grams of Co2.

Check it out here

The new car "showroom tax" makes you think back to "new car tax" we all paid a few years ago, and then VAT on top.

Hardly fits in with the desire to get more people to replace their cars at the three year point thereby cutting down on dirty old engines being run into the ground does it. Fact is more people will run them for longer and the poor sods who bought Chelsea tractors and fuel thirsty cars will be keeping them a lot longer as they won't be willing to take the drastic reduction in value their vehicles have now incurred.

[TonyGoose]

Don't forget the £6000 they can spend on the kitchen

Anyway - you do pose a serious question...I thought the days of car Tax costing more than Insurance would eventually come to me when I hit 60....no chance of that now

Even the Hybrids won't escape as far as I can tell, and anyone who has the GS, LS or RX non Hybs will pay for the MP's to have them bathrooms

I think Lexus may well have to re-strategise if they want to sell cars here beyond 2010/11. That applies tom all makers of cars with more 150grams of Co2.

Check it out here

The new car "showroom tax" makes you think back to "new car tax" we all paid a few years ago, and then VAT on top.

Hardly fits in with the desire to get more people to replace their cars at the three year point thereby cutting down on dirty old engines being run into the ground does it. Fact is more people will run them for longer and the poor sods who bought Chelsea tractors and fuel thirsty cars will be keeping them a lot longer as they won't be willing to take the drastic reduction in value their vehicles have now incurred.

Perhaps this is the time that "Chelsea tractors" get re-classified as "Chelsea Muck Spreaders"

[Boothby Coggles]

Don't forget the £6000 they can spend on the kitchen

Anyway - you do pose a serious question...I thought the days of car Tax costing more than Insurance would eventually come to me when I hit 60....no chance of that now

Even the Hybrids won't escape as far as I can tell, and anyone who has the GS, LS or RX non Hybs will pay for the MP's to have them bathrooms

I think Lexus may well have to re-strategise if they want to sell cars here beyond 2010/11. That applies tom all makers of cars with more 150grams of Co2.

Check it out here

The new car "showroom tax" makes you think back to "new car tax" we all paid a few years ago, and then VAT on top.

Hardly fits in with the desire to get more people to replace their cars at the three year point thereby cutting down on dirty old engines being run into the ground does it. Fact is more people will run them for longer and the poor sods who bought Chelsea tractors and fuel thirsty cars will be keeping them a lot longer as they won't be willing to take the drastic reduction in value their vehicles have now incurred.

[retyred]

Hi All. I'm new to the forum, but would like to add to this topic.

Firstly, last week I decided to replace my 4wd with an IS 220D Sport, pity I didn't go to the dealers then, because the value of my car has plumetted to the tune of several thousand in PX value following the budget.

Lexus dealer would not budge on trade in, so I will have to sell privately.

Having had a 220d Sport to drive yesterday morning, with MM, consequently today I ordered a new 220d Sport minus multi media courtesy of the low trade in issue. I guess the reversing camera is a novelty and my mileage is low and possess a very good touch screen TomTom.

Cutting to the chase having owned a 3.2 V6 with the inherent £400 Road Robbery, sorry, Tax. Thought I'd go back to diesel, I loved the car and can happily cope with the drop in power/acceleration, there's too many speed cameras and ANPR vans around here. Horses for courses.

Lexus also very kindly knocked off a couple of thousand on the new price facilitating a deal.

Look forward to picking it up before the end of the month.

congratulations on the purchase,what colour.

Black & black

[Boothby Coggles]

Don't forget the £6000 they can spend on the kitchen

Anyway - you do pose a serious question...I thought the days of car Tax costing more than Insurance would eventually come to me when I hit 60....no chance of that now

Even the Hybrids won't escape as far as I can tell, and anyone who has the GS, LS or RX non Hybs will pay for the MP's to have them bathrooms

I think Lexus may well have to re-strategise if they want to sell cars here beyond 2010/11. That applies tom all makers of cars with more 150grams of Co2.

Check it out here

The new car "showroom tax" makes you think back to "new car tax" we all paid a few years ago, and then VAT on top.

Hardly fits in with the desire to get more people to replace their cars at the three year point thereby cutting down on dirty old engines being run into the ground does it. Fact is more people will run them for longer and the poor sods who bought Chelsea tractors and fuel thirsty cars will be keeping them a lot longer as they won't be willing to take the drastic reduction in value their vehicles have now incurred.

Interesting front page on yesterday's Telegraph - part of which reads:

"The research, by the TaxPayers' Alliance (TPA), shows that tax on 88 per cent of models will rise and only nine per cent of vehicles will benefit from the new system. Popular family cars are the biggest losers.

Mr Darling is accused of misleading motorists, as he said the changes were ostensibly to target "gas-guzzlers".

The Budget states: "As a result of these reforms, the majority of motorists will be better or no worse off in 2009." But the analysis shows family car drivers suffer more than those with luxury vehicles.For example, the tax on a Vauxhall Astra 2.0i 16v or Saab 9-3 MY2008 will more than double from £210 to £430. The owner of a Ford Focus 1.6 Duratec will pay 59 per cent more (£170 to £270), and tax on a Citroen Xsara Picasso will rise by 48 per cent to £310.

In contrast, over the past five years the duty on these vehicles rose only 30 per cent.

The research, by the TaxPayers' Alliance (TPA), shows that tax on 88 per cent of models will rise and only nine per cent of vehicles will benefit from the new system. Popular family cars are the biggest losers.

Mr Darling is accused of misleading motorists, as he said the changes were ostensibly to target "gas-guzzlers".

The Budget states: "As a result of these reforms, the majority of motorists will be better or no worse off in 2009." But the analysis shows family car drivers suffer more than those with luxury vehicles.For example, the tax on a Vauxhall Astra 2.0i 16v or Saab 9-3 MY2008 will more than double from £210 to £430. The owner of a Ford Focus 1.6 Duratec will pay 59 per cent more (£170 to £270), and tax on a Citroen Xsara Picasso will rise by 48 per cent to £310.

In contrast, over the past five years the duty on these vehicles rose only 30 per cent. Even drivers of Nissan Micras face a 24 per cent rise - from £145 to £180 - compared to 16 per cent over the past five years. But the tax on a Rolls-Royce Phantom, a Hummer H3 or Porsche Cayenne GTS - compared to 16 per cent over the past five years. But the tax on a Rolls-Royce Phantom, a Hummer H3 or Porsche Cayenne GTS will rise by only 13.75 per cent, from £400 to £455."

The best that can be said about these changes are that they are the end-product of gross incompetence; the worst? - Think of your own opinion & then multiply it by 10 to get mine.

I don't feel any need to add anything about my attitude towards politicians :tsktsk: :megaangry: .

[dgman]

Don't forget the £6000 they can spend on the kitchen

Anyway - you do pose a serious question...I thought the days of car Tax costing more than Insurance would eventually come to me when I hit 60....no chance of that now

Even the Hybrids won't escape as far as I can tell, and anyone who has the GS, LS or RX non Hybs will pay for the MP's to have them bathrooms

I think Lexus may well have to re-strategise if they want to sell cars here beyond 2010/11. That applies tom all makers of cars with more 150grams of Co2.

Check it out here

The new car "showroom tax" makes you think back to "new car tax" we all paid a few years ago, and then VAT on top.

Hardly fits in with the desire to get more people to replace their cars at the three year point thereby cutting down on dirty old engines being run into the ground does it. Fact is more people will run them for longer and the poor sods who bought Chelsea tractors and fuel thirsty cars will be keeping them a lot longer as they won't be willing to take the drastic reduction in value their vehicles have now incurred.

Interesting front page on yesterday's Telegraph - part of which reads:

"The research, by the TaxPayers' Alliance (TPA), shows that tax on 88 per cent of models will rise and only nine per cent of vehicles will benefit from the new system. Popular family cars are the biggest losers.

Mr Darling is accused of misleading motorists, as he said the changes were ostensibly to target "gas-guzzlers".

The Budget states: "As a result of these reforms, the majority of motorists will be better or no worse off in 2009." But the analysis shows family car drivers suffer more than those with luxury vehicles.For example, the tax on a Vauxhall Astra 2.0i 16v or Saab 9-3 MY2008 will more than double from £210 to £430. The owner of a Ford Focus 1.6 Duratec will pay 59 per cent more (£170 to £270), and tax on a Citroen Xsara Picasso will rise by 48 per cent to £310.

In contrast, over the past five years the duty on these vehicles rose only 30 per cent.

The research, by the TaxPayers' Alliance (TPA), shows that tax on 88 per cent of models will rise and only nine per cent of vehicles will benefit from the new system. Popular family cars are the biggest losers.

Mr Darling is accused of misleading motorists, as he said the changes were ostensibly to target "gas-guzzlers".

The Budget states: "As a result of these reforms, the majority of motorists will be better or no worse off in 2009." But the analysis shows family car drivers suffer more than those with luxury vehicles.For example, the tax on a Vauxhall Astra 2.0i 16v or Saab 9-3 MY2008 will more than double from £210 to £430. The owner of a Ford Focus 1.6 Duratec will pay 59 per cent more (£170 to £270), and tax on a Citroen Xsara Picasso will rise by 48 per cent to £310.

In contrast, over the past five years the duty on these vehicles rose only 30 per cent. Even drivers of Nissan Micras face a 24 per cent rise - from £145 to £180 - compared to 16 per cent over the past five years. But the tax on a Rolls-Royce Phantom, a Hummer H3 or Porsche Cayenne GTS - compared to 16 per cent over the past five years. But the tax on a Rolls-Royce Phantom, a Hummer H3 or Porsche Cayenne GTS will rise by only 13.75 per cent, from £400 to £455."

The best that can be said about these changes are that they are the end-product of gross incompetence; the worst? - Think of your own opinion & then multiply it by 10 to get mine.

I don't feel any need to add anything about my attitude towards politicians :tsktsk: :megaangry: .

are you still sure about the 250,i mean the way government is taxing co2 my main concern about the 250 is depreciation.

[dgman]

Hi All. I'm new to the forum, but would like to add to this topic.

Firstly, last week I decided to replace my 4wd with an IS 220D Sport, pity I didn't go to the dealers then, because the value of my car has plumetted to the tune of several thousand in PX value following the budget.

Lexus dealer would not budge on trade in, so I will have to sell privately.

Having had a 220d Sport to drive yesterday morning, with MM, consequently today I ordered a new 220d Sport minus multi media courtesy of the low trade in issue. I guess the reversing camera is a novelty and my mileage is low and possess a very good touch screen TomTom.

Cutting to the chase having owned a 3.2 V6 with the inherent £400 Road Robbery, sorry, Tax. Thought I'd go back to diesel, I loved the car and can happily cope with the drop in power/acceleration, there's too many speed cameras and ANPR vans around here. Horses for courses.

Lexus also very kindly knocked off a couple of thousand on the new price facilitating a deal.

Look forward to picking it up before the end of the month.

congratulations on the purchase,what colour.

Black & black

mine is canterbury with black leather.make sure you put the carlacke onto it straight the way.

[Boothby Coggles]

Don't forget the £6000 they can spend on the kitchen

Anyway - you do pose a serious question...I thought the days of car Tax costing more than Insurance would eventually come to me when I hit 60....no chance of that now

Even the Hybrids won't escape as far as I can tell, and anyone who has the GS, LS or RX non Hybs will pay for the MP's to have them bathrooms

I think Lexus may well have to re-strategise if they want to sell cars here beyond 2010/11. That applies tom all makers of cars with more 150grams of Co2.

Check it out here

The new car "showroom tax" makes you think back to "new car tax" we all paid a few years ago, and then VAT on top.

Hardly fits in with the desire to get more people to replace their cars at the three year point thereby cutting down on dirty old engines being run into the ground does it. Fact is more people will run them for longer and the poor sods who bought Chelsea tractors and fuel thirsty cars will be keeping them a lot longer as they won't be willing to take the drastic reduction in value their vehicles have now incurred.

Interesting front page on yesterday's Telegraph - part of which reads:

"The research, by the TaxPayers' Alliance (TPA), shows that tax on 88 per cent of models will rise and only nine per cent of vehicles will benefit from the new system. Popular family cars are the biggest losers.

Mr Darling is accused of misleading motorists, as he said the changes were ostensibly to target "gas-guzzlers".

The Budget states: "As a result of these reforms, the majority of motorists will be better or no worse off in 2009." But the analysis shows family car drivers suffer more than those with luxury vehicles.For example, the tax on a Vauxhall Astra 2.0i 16v or Saab 9-3 MY2008 will more than double from £210 to £430. The owner of a Ford Focus 1.6 Duratec will pay 59 per cent more (£170 to £270), and tax on a Citroen Xsara Picasso will rise by 48 per cent to £310.

In contrast, over the past five years the duty on these vehicles rose only 30 per cent.

The research, by the TaxPayers' Alliance (TPA), shows that tax on 88 per cent of models will rise and only nine per cent of vehicles will benefit from the new system. Popular family cars are the biggest losers.

Mr Darling is accused of misleading motorists, as he said the changes were ostensibly to target "gas-guzzlers".

The Budget states: "As a result of these reforms, the majority of motorists will be better or no worse off in 2009." But the analysis shows family car drivers suffer more than those with luxury vehicles.For example, the tax on a Vauxhall Astra 2.0i 16v or Saab 9-3 MY2008 will more than double from £210 to £430. The owner of a Ford Focus 1.6 Duratec will pay 59 per cent more (£170 to £270), and tax on a Citroen Xsara Picasso will rise by 48 per cent to £310.

In contrast, over the past five years the duty on these vehicles rose only 30 per cent. Even drivers of Nissan Micras face a 24 per cent rise - from £145 to £180 - compared to 16 per cent over the past five years. But the tax on a Rolls-Royce Phantom, a Hummer H3 or Porsche Cayenne GTS - compared to 16 per cent over the past five years. But the tax on a Rolls-Royce Phantom, a Hummer H3 or Porsche Cayenne GTS will rise by only 13.75 per cent, from £400 to £455."

The best that can be said about these changes are that they are the end-product of gross incompetence; the worst? - Think of your own opinion & then multiply it by 10 to get mine.

I don't feel any need to add anything about my attitude towards politicians :tsktsk: :megaangry: .

are you still sure about the 250,i mean the way government is taxing co2 my main concern about the 250 is depreciation.

Not 100% decided yet, but the depreciation, even now, can't be much worse than on the S60. I reckon that the tax on the auto 250 will be £300/310 - too much but not as bad as it could be - the S60 would have been the same. All in all I'll have a better, newer car for roughly comparable running costs. I kept the Volvo for 5 years & am likely to keep whatever I replace the 220d for at least another 5, (by then I'll probably be too old to drive), unless the pseudo communists get back in & wop the tax up to £1k