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Dei 530t 2way Total Closure


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I've just researched them and two things:

Firstly they only do two windows, the IS has four!

Secondly, do they do them at the same time or one at once? as i looked at various ones, and sent various ones back as they only lifted one window at once.

Stav

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A few members have used various methods to achieve this, I have no ide about the system you mntion though mate.

I think part of the problem was the tricky nature of the sunroof depending on wether it was on the tilt/slide cycle,

plus the electric windows have a particular part that was plasitic in the mechanism, that makes a correctly set

timer cut off vital to avoid long term damage to this part.

I know Gord has a system that works on his Green IS200, but was on it when he bought it I believe.

I think Pro-Lex used to sell a kit with most if not all problems solved. I am however unaware if these are still available.

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When they were in my clio they did them both at the same time im sure the same in my mates Astra, i know they only do 2 windows :whistling: but i have 2 boxes which = 4 windows :P but ater a dodgy day on saturday with the car before i even started looking into doing it the car started popping fuses it didnt want me cutting wires i think

they seem like good little boxes i know i had a job lot about 5 years ago i think i picked up about 20 of them, it was fun on the older types of cars as if it went wrong parts were cheap enough to replace but on newer cars where its more processor controlled instead of stright 12v in and out of the switch it costs more if it starts 2 smoke lol

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i have been in touch with geoffers and was going to just make the windows roll up with the alarm but these litle boxes also give you 1 touch to each window 2, and a remote feed in to vent the windows or roll all the way down if you want.

im not that fussed about the sun room if i decide to wire that in i only use the slide very rarely i use the tilt i think once in the 2 years so far and that was on sunday lol. so i could just follow the post in regards to the sunroof or put another of these modules wired to the sunroof after all it has 2 functions that close so if the sunroof is closed in 1 position but not the other in theory it will cancel one out and the other will close but only 1 way to really find out :unsure:

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Did you find out if it was neg or pos trigger?

I looked up the model you gave me but the closest I could find was the 529 which had both. (Programmable).

As for the sunroof, it depends how the putputs of the closure are. The sunroof ecu needs. Live switch to ecu. Pause. Neg feed to tilt (around 6 seconds). Pause. Negs feed to slide (around 10 secs.).

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I'm afraid these won't trigger without extra circuitry.

The programmable polarity is purely for the switch, not the alarm trigger.

To change the polarity of the alarm trigger input they suggest using a relay. Unfortunately, the alarm pos output can't power this as it only gives out a few milliamps.

You could do it with a transistor and a couple of resistors if anyone is interested, but would need an extra relay to close the mirrors.

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was still thinking of using the mirror closure circuit that you had designed but linking this to it after all this gives the 1touch to all the other doors etc ??

That would work a treat. I was sort of hoping you could use these instead of it.

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OK after being at work all night and living on redbull im now hunting though details on the car, is there a main ECU for the windows ?

i only ask as it seem that the wires from the switch go 2 the motor, and 2 wires back from that which appear to be the limit sense wires

I know that pins 1+2 controll the up down when you flip the polarity

so from looking at this and using the DEI530T and from memmory on saturday i think the wires rest at ground which indicates a type B system if im right

Now i wouldnt need to wire up the 1 touch to the drivers window as its allready there, so plan is to try and make it all work on the passenger side with bullet crimps for now make it work take it out make the nice looms to go 2 each door and then try again, How ever Geoff mentioned that it wouldnt trigger with out extra circuitry what about taking a pulse from the door lock system.

Let me know your thoughts guys if it works on this car i will compile a walkthrough and a shopping list to make it work along with the window venting from the standard remote

my thoughts on this will be in another post

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I was thinking along those lines when I started looking at the windows too.

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with the windows being powered (I did my own and so did a few like Scorps, Duncan - Stav has done his too), but my comments on the nylon/metal cog mix, current draw, etc. were to make people aware that is at their own risk. This is why I wouldn't do it commercially - just in case.

The ECU for the windows is split into two. (It is on the drivers side, right up behind the dash.)

I was looking at doing it with a way of not taking the wires into the doors but what you need to do is get to the relay box behind the fusebox, behind passenger kick panel. When this is on, it allows all the passenger windows to be closed with a very low curent single relay/switch/timer. The problem is, you need to put a diode in or it will switch on the rest of the ignition. Not a great issue really, but a complete pain because of its location and size. It is easier running the wires into the doors.

The drivers side is a bit more complex in it using a very basic bus system for the window and mirror motor control. (well, multiplex rather than bus really). Again, you are better just running it to the motors. Believe it or not, its easier.

One thing you can try which is quite interesting. If you put a 680ohm resistor in series with an LED and put them across the window contacts of the ECU, it makes the windows all automatic. They carry on the direction they are going unless you give a quick touch in the opposite direction if you see what I mean. I don't have any pictures or remember the pin numbers but you can trace it back from the wiring.

For the trigger, you can only really reliably use the alarm switch on. There are no others that are specific enough. Do it from the door lock system and if ever you lock the doors from inside it will trigger, mirrors will shut, etc.

The alarm trigger is very, very low current and will not power even a relay coil. I suggested using the original mirror closure circuit because I'm 100% certain of the no return into the alarm system and very low current trigger. If you did find a way to get this unit to trigger, would you be certain there's nothing happening that could damage the security output transistors? It kills the feed to the overhead sensor when too much current is drawn. (Kills it permanently as in lets the magic smoke out)

So.... from the relay of the closure unit you would have the trigger for your window closures. The closures would be connected directly to the motors and it will be fine.

I agree with you though about finding a simpler method and always believed there is one, its just a trade off on development and getting the job done.

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im now intrigued as to the Resistor and LED on the ecu but if its right up behind the dash that sounds like far to much effot concidering the drivers door has one touch as standard and the DEI box offers it to the other windows if your wire it correctly,

For the trigger, you can only really reliably use the alarm switch on. There are no others that are specific enough. Do it from the door lock system and if ever you lock the doors from inside it will trigger, mirrors will shut, etc.

i thought about this and if you had a relay that flips it so that when you unlock the car the connection is terminated I.e no output from the relay to the closure system and of course diodes all over the place for reverse current elimination then if you lock the doors from inside it shouldnt have an effect in theory i think

The alarm trigger is very, very low current and will not power even a relay coil. I suggested using the original mirror closure circuit because I'm 100% certain of the no return into the alarm system and very low current trigger. If you did find a way to get this unit to trigger, would you be certain there's nothing happening that could damage the security output transistors? It kills the feed to the overhead sensor when too much current is drawn. (Kills it permanently as in lets the magic smoke out

the only thought i had on thi is that its that the circuit can be triggered from the lock pulse therfore not touching any of the alarm circuitry any where in the car but the fuesed door lock circuit so me thinks whilst the door card is off trace the locking wire also

I agree with you though about finding a simpler method and always believed there is one, its just a trade off on development and getting the job done.
to true

wish me luck as will be taking the tools to the car again on saturday if the weather holds out

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Ok we have mixed Success here

I can interface it with the drivers door (yes i know it allready has 1 touch on it) but this elimates the factory one and takes full controll down side you have 2 run 4 wires into the door not a majour problem, here is the fun part you need a timer circuit still to roll the windows up by this i mean we need a negative latch for around 7.5sec in order to roll up one window from what i understand we will still only need a maximum of 10 seconds for all 4 windows.

but on the plus side if we can make the factory alarm giv a single negative pulse you can vent the windows in the summer.

Also on the box there is another wire which gives a neagtive charge for 5 seconds once all windows are closed Possibly usefull to flip a relay circuit to close the mirrors (geoffers might be able to offer advice here) or back up my theory pretty please lol

my thoughts on the mirror clousre part is upon turning of the ignition a relay switches back to standard alowinf a positive 12v through but no ground (eliminating talk back when ignition on and allowing switch to still be used to close mirrors) so that once all the windows are up the 5seconds of ground pulse the box gives would be sufficiant enough to close the mirrors

in this case you would need to run i think 6 cables into the drivers door as we all know there isnt many places to hide anything in the dash area however there is a lovely little cubby hole on drivers side under the carpet before you his he cross section and it does pretrude upwards if u stash things in there, failing that run all cables to drivers side in boot and hide

these are just my feelings and not full suggestions, let meknow your thoughts though

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Ok i now feel like i should be playing cricketdue to the rain play has to be suspended

but not before playing with the mirror circuit

my findings are as follows

There is a BLUE wire on the central locking circuit which appears to switch to ground when locked so this could well provide the roll up we need to close the windows,

On top of this i now know that the mirror nwires ar the Green / red and green

GREEN/RED GROUND

GREEN +12V

Flip these over to close the mirrors

so working on the same theory as the door locks provide a relay that switches the load to a seperate 12v feed maybe from inside the door somewhere then as soon as the windows finish closing the 5second negative output offered from the DEI 530 will be enough to close the windows only down side at the mo is there is no way of folding the mirrors back out on this method

as of yet...................

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Hi Stav

Yeah i got a print out of that the prolem Geoff and i ran into is its just a pulse geoffers circuit starts a timer to activate the relay to close the mirrors the one i got my hand on gives out the 5 seconds to close the mirrors once the windows are all closed, but it doesnt give out a straight 12v for the 5seconds it only gives out the ground so we need to interface a relay inthere so that when the car is running i.e ACC on the mirrors run as normal but upon locking the relay reverts back to off mode passing the 12v through to the green wire and once the windows are closed the ground is then also passed through for those 5 seconds thus closing the mirrors

upon thinking about it the theory is that once you turn the ignition back on it reactivates the switch so it should open the mirrors have to chuck a diode in there other wise we could reverse feed the circuit and we get the famouns magic smoke

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Just make the circuit up mate - you'll end up with no hair!

I admire your determination - I really do but you could have had this all made up and done by now using my circuit! :D

How are you getting around it activating by the internal lock switch if the ignition is off? You won't see where the axe murderer is creeping up on you at the side of your car if the mirrors close on you.

Here's some answers to your questions so hope they help :

Ok we have mixed Success here

I can interface it with the drivers door (yes i know it allready has 1 touch on it) but this elimates the factory one and takes full controll down side you have 2 run 4 wires into the door not a majour problem, here is the fun part you need a timer circuit still to roll the windows up by this i mean we need a negative latch for around 7.5sec in order to roll up one window from what i understand we will still only need a maximum of 10 seconds for all 4 windows.

You should be able to do this with just 2 wires to the motor. Also, can you not take the negative internal timer it has of its own and use that? Open it up - you may see a pot you can adjust for this time.

If you need a timer anyway, you may as well just build the circuit!

but on the plus side if we can make the factory alarm giv a single negative pulse you can vent the windows in the summer.

You can make a small circuit to swap from positve continuous output to single negative pulse:

Any NPN tranny will do, I use a BC547 or 548

nptrig.JPG

Also on the box there is another wire which gives a neagtive charge for 5 seconds once all windows are closed Possibly usefull to flip a relay circuit to close the mirrors (geoffers might be able to offer advice here) or back up my theory pretty please lol

Yes - have one side of the coil to perm positive and use the neg output to power it from your closure for the 5 secs like so.....

(Check your relay - on the diagram here, the common is central as you can see.)

Also, you have different cabling controlling your mirrors. I'm assuming you've picked this up elsewhere. Just for info, this is in the drivers footwell, main door connector and works across all models.

mrelay.JPG

my thoughts on the mirror clousre part is upon turning of the ignition a relay switches back to standard alowinf a positive 12v through but no ground (eliminating talk back when ignition on and allowing switch to still be used to close mirrors) so that once all the windows are up the 5seconds of ground pulse the box gives would be sufficiant enough to close the mirrors

in this case you would need to run i think 6 cables into the drivers door as we all know there isnt many places to hide anything in the dash area however there is a lovely little cubby hole on drivers side under the carpet before you his he cross section and it does pretrude upwards if u stash things in there, failing that run all cables to drivers side in boot and hide

these are just my feelings and not full suggestions, let meknow your thoughts though

I can't criticise (and I'm NOT) because I did exactly the same as you. As I say, I do admire what you are doing and best of luck.

The advantages are that you learn so much about the car by doing these things. I have utmost respect for people like yourself who keep at it! (No - I'm not patronising you - I mean it)

If you do build the closure unit, just add this circuit to the relay contacts and it will power the windows. Just two wires to each window.

There's no chance of a short because if there is a fault and there's power to the motor on the downside, it will give two positives acros the motor so no current. If it goes on the upside then this is fine as it will just power the window as normal as the neg will be correct.

Its just a case of finding the positive wire when the window is winding up and breaking into it. These DO vary across models so advise you check.

full.JPG

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hey all

Just make the circuit up mate - you'll end up with no hair!

I admire your determination - I really do but you could have had this all made up and done by now using my circuit!

How are you getting around it activating by the internal lock switch if the ignition is off? You won't see where the axe murderer is creeping up on you at the side of your car if the mirrors close on you.

I agree i could have had it done by now doing it that way, but there is no fun some one has done thae hard work allready, plus i fancied a challenge

Oh and i think im starting to loose my hair any 1 from the last 2 meets feel free to comment on that lol

You should be able to do this with just 2 wires to the motor. Also, can you not take the negative internal timer it has of its own and use that? Open it up - you may see a pot you can adjust for this time.

If you need a timer anyway, you may as well just build the circuit!

The reason for the 4 wires to each door it it also allows the 1 touch feature to be added in along with its own current sensing i have to admit i didnt try it without the 2 wires for the switch the diagram showed it with the 2 wires in it acts as an ecu for the windows it self, i was thinking maybe of dissabling the internal window ecu and using just these 2 boxes now......

the master switch on the drivers door for all the windows does it multiplex the signal to the other doors into the ecu or a direct wire to the doors i forgot 2 look my bad lol

You can make a small circuit to swap from positve continuous output to single negative pulse:

the question is though which button on the reomte will that respond to....

im thinking of finding the seperate output on the alarm module for the boot i.e single press to vent windows push and hold still opens boot, will play with this after everything else works i think

Yes - have one side of the coil to perm positive and use the neg output to power it from your closure for the 5 secs like so.....

(Check your relay - on the diagram here, the common is central as you can see.)

Also, you have different cabling controlling your mirrors. I'm assuming you've picked this up elsewhere. Just for info, this is in the drivers footwell, main door connector and works across all models

What flavour of relay would you recomend or do you use in your circuit are they avaliable at maplins might pop there this afternoon to finish it all of on monday.......

Belive me it was very tempting just to make your circuit Geoff but i was thinking about it more and more and the extra effot of the 2 wires to add one touch to each door was growing on me and then the added bonus of the negative 5 second output for the mirrors it does kind of do everything you and i have been discussing

i will have a full colour code and wire reference for all 4 doors once this is completed and it will be done in time for JAE i hope lol so any one who is intrested can take a peak

Well since it started raining at 4pm i have been making the customs looms to put it all in the car and terminating everything up at the box ends i forgot how time consumin preping and soldering joints is

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Great stuff mate and yes you are right - doing it yourself, exactly how you want it is the best and most fulfilling way although frustrating at times.

I use any relays I can get my hands on to be honest. I always go for dpco (double pole changeover) as you can do anything with them even if you don't use half of it. I get myself a load every now and again from eBay. The way you are going I suggest you get some as you will probably be doing a lot more with the electrics..... :winky:

The master switch multiplexes to the other doors which is a pain and how I found out about the LED thing holding them on...

The circuit I have drawn there responds the the alarm being activated. I.e. the first lock of the doors by remote. It was the only completely separate signal I could find. (Certainly in the drivers kickpanel. Must admit, never looked far in the passenger side.

Keep us informed matey.

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BIt of subject here but i dont think the car wants me to do this as there is about 2 inches of show outside now

Ok the only problem with using that circuit i can see is it will giv conflicting information to the box when you try to lock the car to roll the windows up i will try to vent them at the same time which wont work lol

but i shall press on

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