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30k Service Due And A Long List Of Not Exactly Minor Fauls


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i don't care about consumption what i do care about is seemingly por consumption compared to others in its class ,

In the end that's what did it for me with my 220. Although my economy figures aren't as bad as yours Harv, I did feel as though I was being robbed with every mile driven. I've swapped the 220 for a 250 and I'm delighted at the economy of the 2.5 V6 engine. I averaged 40.7 on the journey from Kent to the Midlands yesterday - absolutely fantastic, in my opinion, for a car with less than 1500 miles on the clock, and much the same as I eventually got out of the 220 (with 24,000 on the clock).

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what i am trying to get across to you is that i have had many cars that have had "special" driving styles to get best from them , they all are used for circuit racing , and MPG has never been high on their feature list .... most people would say the handling was twitchy and dangerous , and would struggle to see the best from them .

They are built to a purpose

However your average mass market fleet diesel engine should be able to nowadays produce 40mpg driven by any monkey .

and yes i would accept 10% down on the market leaders but have a search and even those claiming good mpg are saying it 38 to 39 on a run .... still way off 10% down.

my motive is clear .. for lexus to look and acknowlage the issues and try and have dialogue with there customers to resolve it .

There are many who are reporting 50+ MPG on a run, and most seem to get around 45. Remember this thread?

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...=47633&st=0

I kind of thought you would be interested in getting to the bottom of this mileage problem. Silly me. That's what I was trying to help you with in the first place. Now I can see why you would call the 220d in general a disaster. Your trying to cause Lexus maximum PR damage, so they would work harder on your case. Effective as it could be, I'm not too keen on the idea of you claiming most 220d's having this problem. That is a serious accusation, one that requires serious evidence. I have yet to see a single 220d that can't be driven with reasonable fuel economy, but even based on that I'm not saying there can't be plenty of such cars out there. See the difference?

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did you miss the comment from the gentleman who wrote software for a fleet company ,whos data showed 80% of their is220d drives had complaints ... have you not listend to the people who have actually sold there cars at a loss becuase they were so agreved?

no?

really

oh i forgot the is220 is great , ....... or yes it wouldbe if i got 40+ mpg .

mine does not and fwiw let me judge my opinion of the economy on actual real life experience like ,every time i have visited my dealer there is another diesel driver complaining (yes every time)

and all the diesel drives i have met and spoken to face to face all claim the same ,and in the last few months thats 7 real people ..... alot fot a great car don't you think.

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did you miss the comment from the gentleman who wrote software for a fleet company ,whos data showed 80% of their is220d drives had complaints ... have you not listend to the people who have actually sold there cars at a loss becuase they were so agreved?

no?

really

oh i forgot the is220 is great , ....... or yes it wouldbe if i got 40+ mpg .

mine does not and fwiw let me judge my opinion of the economy on actual real life experience like ,every time i have visited my dealer there is another diesel driver complaining (yes every time)

and all the diesel drives i have met and spoken to face to face all claim the same ,and in the last few months thats 7 real people ..... alot fot a great car don't you think.

Did you miss all the gentlemen with reasonable mileage in that thread I posted? Or in all the other ones? Or don't they just count in your book?

You just go ahead and judge your opinion on real life experience. You haven't tried them all, so don't say they're all faulty. I haven't tried them all, and I'm not saying they're all good. Okay?

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Harv,

Firstly, real feel for you - sounds like you really have had a rough ride with your car.

Excuse my question if you have already stated the answer somewhere - had a quick ganger through this post and others and couldn't find no mention of it....

The MPG you are seeing, is this just from the tank average on the onboard trip computer or do you actually manually calculate it yourself?

The reason I ask is that I'm sure that there is a bug of sorts in the onboard trip computer.....I've seen mine on several occasions when it has been in for a service come out with 0MPG as the tank average and then it never goes above 30 - 33mpg for the rest of a tank, even if it covers 200 - 300 miles on my normal daily commute where I would get 42 - 45mpg easily. As soon as I fill her up again, everything appears to be reset correctly and I'm back up to the normal figures I expect to see.

My thinking is that maybe, and yes its a long shot, there is some fault in the onboard calculation software and some of us just might be getting better MPG than we actually think.

I'm sure this is just a shot un the dark and you have already covered it so like I say, please excuse me if this is the case.

Personally, I love my 220D and I'm not driving it any differently to a normal car nowadays and get fairly decent MPG returns, not as good as I had hoped to be honest but it is bearable. To start off with, my MPG was dire, mid 30's if I was lucky. I'm not 100% sure what exactly happened, but it has improved dramatically to the levels I see each and ever tank now.

I just do not get how there can be such a wide variance in what people are seeing in exactly the same cars.

What would be the ultimate test would be for you to get hold of someones 220D who state they get 'good' returns and see what you get out of it on your normal daily travels for a while - would prove if it is all 220D or certain (and probably quite a lot) of batches of them.

I've also said it before on here but I reckon it would be superb if we could get a 'system' printout of ECU settings etc and compare to see what, if any, differences there are between the same model cars - makes me wonder if all Lexus garages are actually doing all the updates we think they are......

Anyway, I really do hope you get some light at the end of your long tunnel in the near future, whether it be with lexus or a rival brand.

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Harv,

Firstly, real feel for you - sounds like you really have had a rough ride with your car.

Excuse my question if you have already stated the answer somewhere - had a quick ganger through this post and others and couldn't find no mention of it....

The MPG you are seeing, is this just from the tank average on the onboard trip computer or do you actually manually calculate it yourself?

The reason I ask is that I'm sure that there is a bug of sorts in the onboard trip computer.....I've seen mine on several occasions when it has been in for a service come out with 0MPG as the tank average and then it never goes above 30 - 33mpg for the rest of a tank, even if it covers 200 - 300 miles on my normal daily commute where I would get 42 - 45mpg easily. As soon as I fill her up again, everything appears to be reset correctly and I'm back up to the normal figures I expect to see.

My thinking is that maybe, and yes its a long shot, there is some fault in the onboard calculation software and some of us just might be getting better MPG than we actually think.

I'm sure this is just a shot un the dark and you have already covered it so like I say, please excuse me if this is the case.

Personally, I love my 220D and I'm not driving it any differently to a normal car nowadays and get fairly decent MPG returns, not as good as I had hoped to be honest but it is bearable. To start off with, my MPG was dire, mid 30's if I was lucky. I'm not 100% sure what exactly happened, but it has improved dramatically to the levels I see each and ever tank now.

I just do not get how there can be such a wide variance in what people are seeing in exactly the same cars.

What would be the ultimate test would be for you to get hold of someones 220D who state they get 'good' returns and see what you get out of it on your normal daily travels for a while - would prove if it is all 220D or certain (and probably quite a lot) of batches of them.

I've also said it before on here but I reckon it would be superb if we could get a 'system' printout of ECU settings etc and compare to see what, if any, differences there are between the same model cars - makes me wonder if all Lexus garages are actually doing all the updates we think they are......

Anyway, I really do hope you get some light at the end of your long tunnel in the near future, whether it be with lexus or a rival brand.

Wow what a thread!! If this was a boxing match we would have gone 40 rounds by now with no result. I have now had my 220d for just over three months and have now covered 5500 miles. I have gone through my milage expense sheets and have found that my useage so far is 40% urban and 25%M mixed and 35% motorways. My avg mpg since new has just gone 40.1 mpg.

I must be honest that I have altered my driving style since I bought this car as it is my own and I no longer have the benifit off a company car and have opted for a car allowance. I must admit these forums almost made me decide against the Lexus but each time I went to showroom all that faded away. THree months in I am still as happy as a pig in Sh*t.

I do a trip once every six weeks to Cardiff from Sunbury in Middlesex. Round trip off 290 miles once I have seen my clients. Today after reading this thread over the past few days I decided to conduct an experiment. I filled up yesterday evening before I got home and headed out this morning leaving an extra 25 mins over the normal time it would take me doing my usual 80 mph or so. I travelled at between 65-68 mph in sixth with the cruise control engaged and my new Coldplay album pumping in my ears amongst others of course.

Well the results where great. I have included some pics that a took a long the way just so those that don't believe can see there was no cheating .... see below!! :whistling:

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My 220d (basic) is coming up to 60000miles and I have had the recall done. I can get 55mpg if I cruise at around 70-75mph on the motorway. I have acheived that a number of times. However, I refuse to use the cruise control as that seems to hammer the fuel! Hills and head winds ruin the consumption and I have proved that a number of times driving from Chippenham tp Pontypridd and returning. If I drive into a head wind I get 39mpg and rturning I get 55mpg. The route is the same and the driving style is the same.

I find that 2000rpm in 6th is best for consumption but up to 2500 in 5th is quite good as well.

Mine is a company car and I still have 2 years to run and I do not regret getting the 220. Its a great car and is lovely to cruise on the motorway at 70. Recently I did Chippenham to Stoke up the M5/M6 at 85/90 ish and returned later in the day at 70. Traffice conditions were roughly the same and the return journey took 5 minutes longer and 10mpg better. So what is the point in zooming around everywhere, wasting fuel and brakes when you can sit quite happily in the inside lane and watch the fuel burners zoo past and only get to their destination just before you!!

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My 220d (basic) is coming up to 60000miles and I have had the recall done. I can get 55mpg if I cruise at around 70-75mph on the motorway. I have acheived that a number of times. However, I refuse to use the cruise control as that seems to hammer the fuel! Hills and head winds ruin the consumption and I have proved that a number of times driving from Chippenham tp Pontypridd and returning. If I drive into a head wind I get 39mpg and rturning I get 55mpg. The route is the same and the driving style is the same.

I find that 2000rpm in 6th is best for consumption but up to 2500 in 5th is quite good as well.

Mine is a company car and I still have 2 years to run and I do not regret getting the 220. Its a great car and is lovely to cruise on the motorway at 70. Recently I did Chippenham to Stoke up the M5/M6 at 85/90 ish and returned later in the day at 70. Traffice conditions were roughly the same and the return journey took 5 minutes longer and 10mpg better. So what is the point in zooming around everywhere, wasting fuel and brakes when you can sit quite happily in the inside lane and watch the fuel burners zoo past and only get to their destination just before you!!

in that case as i did a 200 mile run with the cruise on in 6th at 75 and managed to scrape 36mpg there is an issue and aserious issue with my car

that and the other early cars we have on our fleet they are the same.

i am just not going to worry anymore its not worth it , i'll never have another lexus diesel unless the courtesy car i get next monday give good mpg .... if it does they can keep mine till it does the same .

anyway i am off to compliment my gas guzzling 911 with a gass guzzling v8 audi , but then neither of thos "claim to be economical "

oh and as for 57mpg ... i can't get that from mine if i coast and use neutral for every down hill stretch .

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If I did a 200 mile trip at 75 with cruise control I would expect about 39mpg. I do not use the cruise control on motorways as I don't think it is very intelligent and wastes fuel. I drive on the mpg meter and can see that on down hill stretches it hovers around the 60mpg mark on Cruise control. Knock the CC off and the MPG goes right to the end.

I have compared my car to loan 220d's with very low mileage and reckon that if you drive at 75 mph in 6th on the flat with light throttle the MPG should be somewhere around the 65mpg mark. If you don't get that there is something wrong. I did not see that until I had the latest recall work done, now I can see it quite regularly. I also keep the tyre pressures quite high, 38 frot 40 rear. I don't pay for the tyres!!!!!! I also set the RPM light at 2500 revs and change when it comes on.

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Mine is an early 220E with MM. It also has fuel economy which is poor. The car has always rattled like mad, the rear view mirror is bad, the dash has been out for mods, and yet it is still disappointing. All modifications and recalls completed recently and no differences.

On a long trip at 70mph on speedometer, with Cruise control or not on, I can really only get 40-42 mpg max (normally 36-40), no matter how long I drive for. Town driving can be as low as 20.

What I notice in some pictures posted on here is that 6th gear is being used at 68mph. The handbook very clearly states that it is not intended for speeds below 75mph. So you could be damaging the engine, possibly the clutch, flywheel etc, as it would be like a car pulling a very very heavy caravan.

The speedometer indicated 68 MPH is more like 64 actual. The 56MPG indicated by car computer is more like 53ish. So may be it isn't so good?

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The fuel economy meter is a precision tool for figuring out whether or not the engine is labouring. Good mileage -> no problem. Bad mileage -> downshift.

The reason why the handbook says the 6th gear shouldn't be used below 75 is that it is the foolproof figure. At 75 mph you can use it even going up a steep hillside. On the other hand, going down hill the engine isn't labouring even at 50 mph.

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Don't accelerate down hills, let gravity do it. Its a heavy old car and my A level physics from when the Seventies (Fuel shortages, strikes, fashion etc) were here for the first time included momentum. I keep the momentum up with the least power input to keep it there, hence the 75 mph on the motorway. If you travel at 90 you are constantly braking and accelerating and the MPG hates acceleration. Steady X-coutry A roads can get me 45 MPG but if I have to brake and accelerate I am back at 35-37mpg.

Its all down to the right foot!

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Don't accelerate down hills, let gravity do it. Its a heavy old car and my A level physics from when the Seventies (Fuel shortages, strikes, fashion etc) were here for the first time included momentum. I keep the momentum up with the least power input to keep it there, hence the 75 mph on the motorway. If you travel at 90 you are constantly braking and accelerating and the MPG hates acceleration. Steady X-coutry A roads can get me 45 MPG but if I have to brake and accelerate I am back at 35-37mpg.

Its all down to the right foot!

but then again .. a bit of a revelation , but audii bmw and mercedes let you use the brakes an accelerator as well ,without drastick mpg issues .... what a shocker.

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Finlex is correct - braking is evil and ruins MPG. But.........When was the last time you could drive in an English motorway at a constant speed of 75mph to keep momentum? The roads are terribly congested and you could be breaking the law. You can average 48-50mph only no matter where you go during the day on a motorway. And the car only gives high 30's in MPG. In most cities they have started to "stack" traffic using traffic lights which appears to stay Red longer than green on all major routes going into town centres. So you are always stopping and starting. Use 1st and 2nd gear and the economy goes down.

This is where BMW with ED has hit the right measure for Englands roads.

Lexus is an excellent car elsewhere, let down by a slightly old fashioned design. It is still classed as E4, not E5, so when people say it is the cleanest, what do they mean? CO2 is very high too. Does any person here know what the particulate emission measure is and how it compares to others? It is possible that Lexus have been standing still with the 220d engine trying to fix the bad emission design with all complaints, and everyone else is running away into the distance.

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Finlex is correct - braking is evil and ruins MPG. But.........When was the last time you could drive in an English motorway at a constant speed of 75mph to keep momentum? The roads are terribly congested and you could be breaking the law. You can average 48-50mph only no matter where you go during the day on a motorway. And the car only gives high 30's in MPG. In most cities they have started to "stack" traffic using traffic lights which appears to stay Red longer than green on all major routes going into town centres. So you are always stopping and starting. Use 1st and 2nd gear and the economy goes down.

This is where BMW with ED has hit the right measure for Englands roads.

Lexus is an excellent car elsewhere, let down by a slightly old fashioned design. It is still classed as E4, not E5, so when people say it is the cleanest, what do they mean? CO2 is very high too. Does any person here know what the particulate emission measure is and how it compares to others? It is possible that Lexus have been standing still with the 220d engine trying to fix the bad emission design with all complaints, and everyone else is running away into the distance.

Good to hear that BMW's ED is good for something. For me, it doesn't do a thing.

When I say that Lexus is the cleanest in its class, that is exactly what I mean. MB E 300 Bluetec is significantly better than Lexus in NOX, but even that can't touch Lexus' CO level. Plus it's a lot more expensive. BMW 320d is behind in both NOX and CO. Audi A4 with the new 2.0 TDI (170 hp) is the first real challenger in the class, being a bit better in NOX but a lot more behind in CO. Lexus is Euro5. It's been discussed a lot, since Lexus doesn't say it in the spec sheet. That is only because Euro5 doesn't do anything for now.

CO2 is another thing completely. CO2 is not air pollution, as such. The only reason for all the buzz on CO2 is the global warming. Serious as that may be, cancer and respiratory deceases are more so IMHO.

You could say Lexus has been standing still since the introduction of the 220d, for they haven't updated the engine. But then again, it's only been less than three years. The mid-life facelift would be the logical time to do a touchup, so fingers crossed. Some say Lexus will drop the diesel altogether, but I don't buy it.

Oh yes, the emission figures. Here's the whole package.

Lexus IS 220d: CO 0.13 g/km ; NOX 0.16 g/km ; Particulates 0.002 g/km

MB E 300 A Bluetec: CO 0.187 g/km ; NOX 0.028 g/km ; Particulates 0.001 g/km

BMW 320d: CO 0.249 g/km ; NOX 0.171 g/km ; Particulates 0 g/km

Audi A4 2.0 TDI 170 hp: CO 0.189 g/km ; NOX 0.131 g/km ; Particulates 0.0011 g/km

Euro5 for diesels: CO 0.50 g/km ; NOX 0.23 g/km ; Particulates 0.018 g/km

First of all, all these are Euro5 compliant. As you can see, CO level is very good on Lexus. In NOX, MB with its very sophisticated deNOX technology is the clear winner, Audi is better than Lexus as well but the difference isn't as big. Particulate amount is very, very low on all the candidates, so I would say the differencies are negligible.

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Finlex is correct - braking is evil and ruins MPG. But.........When was the last time you could drive in an English motorway at a constant speed of 75mph to keep momentum? The roads are terribly congested and you could be breaking the law. You can average 48-50mph only no matter where you go during the day on a motorway. And the car only gives high 30's in MPG. In most cities they have started to "stack" traffic using traffic lights which appears to stay Red longer than green on all major routes going into town centres. So you are always stopping and starting. Use 1st and 2nd gear and the economy goes down.

This is where BMW with ED has hit the right measure for Englands roads.

Lexus is an excellent car elsewhere, let down by a slightly old fashioned design. It is still classed as E4, not E5, so when people say it is the cleanest, what do they mean? CO2 is very high too. Does any person here know what the particulate emission measure is and how it compares to others? It is possible that Lexus have been standing still with the 220d engine trying to fix the bad emission design with all complaints, and everyone else is running away into the distance.

Good to hear that BMW's ED is good for something. For me, it doesn't do a thing.

When I say that Lexus is the cleanest in its class, that is exactly what I mean. MB E 300 Bluetec is significantly better than Lexus in NOX, but even that can't touch Lexus' CO level. Plus it's a lot more expensive. BMW 320d is behind in both NOX and CO. Audi A4 with the new 2.0 TDI (170 hp) is the first real challenger in the class, being a bit better in NOX but a lot more behind in CO. Lexus is Euro5. It's been discussed a lot, since Lexus doesn't say it in the spec sheet. That is only because Euro5 doesn't do anything for now.

CO2 is another thing completely. CO2 is not air pollution, as such. The only reason for all the buzz on CO2 is the global warming. Serious as that may be, cancer and respiratory deceases are more so IMHO.

You could say Lexus has been standing still since the introduction of the 220d, for they haven't updated the engine. But then again, it's only been less than three years. The mid-life facelift would be the logical time to do a touchup, so fingers crossed. Some say Lexus will drop the diesel altogether, but I don't buy it.

Oh yes, the emission figures. Here's the whole package.

Lexus IS 220d: CO 0.13 g/km ; NOX 0.16 g/km ; Particulates 0.002 g/km

MB E 300 A Bluetec: CO 0.187 g/km ; NOX 0.028 g/km ; Particulates 0.001 g/km

BMW 320d: CO 0.249 g/km ; NOX 0.171 g/km ; Particulates 0 g/km

Audi A4 2.0 TDI 170 hp: CO 0.189 g/km ; NOX 0.131 g/km ; Particulates 0.0011 g/km

Euro5 for diesels: CO 0.50 g/km ; NOX 0.23 g/km ; Particulates 0.018 g/km

First of all, all these are Euro5 compliant. As you can see, CO level is very good on Lexus. In NOX, MB with its very sophisticated deNOX technology is the clear winner, Audi is better than Lexus as well but the difference isn't as big. Particulate amount is very, very low on all the candidates, so I would say the differencies are negligible.

Really ????

Marque: BMW

Range: 3 SERIES

Fuel: DIESEL

Transmission: MANUAL

Doorplan: 4 SAL

Trim: 320D SE

Model Introduction Date: 2005-06

Engine (cc): 1995

Level (g/km): 153

Marque: LEXUS

Range: IS

Fuel: DIESEL

Transmission: MANUAL

Doorplan: 4 SAL

Trim: 220D SE

Model Introduction Date: 2005-11

Engine (cc): 2231

Level (g/km): 168

Marque: AUDI

Range: A4

Fuel: DIESEL

Transmission: MANUAL

Doorplan: 4 SAL

Trim: TDI SE 163

Model Introduction Date: 2003-06

Engine (cc): 2496

Level (g/km): 186

Marque: MERCEDES CARS

Range: C CLASS

Fuel: DIESEL

Transmission: MANUAL

Doorplan: 4 SAL

Trim: C220 CDI AVANTGARDE SE

Model Introduction Date: 2002-07

Engine (cc): 2148

Level (g/km): 170

so the bmw is cleaner , and thats the older 163bhp ,not the new efficient dynamics engine ,

Again get your facts correct , our government and the motor industry disagree that the lexus is cleanest.

maybe in finland you have like i have said a different spec. but i always knew that the lexus wasn't cleanest as i pay tax based on those figures.

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