New Model Is 220d

[bennowolves]

I am looking to buy an IS 220d but was wondering if a new model or facelift was coming out any time soon. As it is 3years+ old. Any idea cheers

[Tango]

I am looking to buy an IS 220d but was wondering if a new model or facelift was coming out any time soon. As it is 3years+ old. Any idea cheers

Pretty unlikely...I believe Lexus have given up on the diesel to concentrate on hybrid technology after the 220D disaster.

[mrak]

I am looking to buy an IS 220d but was wondering if a new model or facelift was coming out any time soon. As it is 3years+ old. Any idea cheers

according to the info, IS will have some minor adjustments like changed front grille, new mirrors and new back fender

I am also told that there will be some price adjustment (ie. higher price) but I do not know if this is only for my market or overall price change

this is supposed to happen before year end, possibly from september

on lexus US site they have more info about it

[bennowolves]

What do you mean 220d disaster!

[Tango]

What do you mean 220d disaster!

It's a mongrel...nowhere near best in its class, and was introduced on in Europe for obvious reasons (fleet market/tax etc). Not the type of car Lexus is normally associated with. think they've learnt their lesson though and will not be following it up. Hate it when my local dealership provide one as a courtesy car.

[bennowolves]

So its the 250 auto all day long for you then! What is the actual fuel economy of the standard automatic. My manual car at the moment does 29mpg. Thats about 18 mile per day to and from work non motorway, all roads.

[FinLex]

I've heard some very credible rumours about the facelift. Deliveries should start in October. The diesel will remain. Besides the minor optical changes, there will be some modifications on the suspension, steering and the manual gearbox. The latter is the big news, I think.

[FinLex]

It's a mongrel...nowhere near best in its class, and was introduced on in Europe for obvious reasons (fleet market/tax etc). Not the type of car Lexus is normally associated with. think they've learnt their lesson though and will not be following it up. Hate it when my local dealership provide one as a courtesy car.

Not the type of car Lexus is normally associated with? Would have to agree with you on that, since it is their first diesel...

[philthy]

It's a mongrel...nowhere near best in its class, and was introduced on in Europe for obvious reasons (fleet market/tax etc). Not the type of car Lexus is normally associated with. think they've learnt their lesson though and will not be following it up. Hate it when my local dealership provide one as a courtesy car.

Not the type of car Lexus is normally associated with? Would have to agree with you on that, since it is their first diesel...

My info is there will be NO updated 220d. It's a lemon and Lexus are washing their hands of it to concentrate on building cars they know a thing or two about. BMW, Audi, Mecedes and Volvo will have the diesel fleet market to fight over. It may get facelifts to the bodywork but the engine will not evolve further in the 220d.

[Tango]

It's a mongrel...nowhere near best in its class, and was introduced on in Europe for obvious reasons (fleet market/tax etc). Not the type of car Lexus is normally associated with. think they've learnt their lesson though and will not be following it up. Hate it when my local dealership provide one as a courtesy car.

Not the type of car Lexus is normally associated with? Would have to agree with you on that, since it is their first diesel...

....and their last

[FinLex]

There's something very peculiar in the way some members of this community are so eager to crucify the 220d...

[Tango]

There's something very peculiar in the way some members of this community are so eager to crucify the 220d...

It's a member open forum not a fan club. If people feel the 220D is second rate compared to the BMW, Audi and even the Alfa Romeo diesel models then they are entitled to say so. IMHO Lexus should never have produced it and have compromised their reputation for quality in doing so.

While we're at it I don't think the 250 has the same kudos of the 200/300 first generation, or design and build quality, except in the engine and auto gearbox department where it's a vast improvement. The 'toys' are available on most makes now so I don't consider them in the comparison.

[FinLex]

It's a member open forum not a fan club. If people feel the 220D is second rate compared to the BMW, Audi and even the Alfa Romeo diesel models then they are entitled to say so. IMHO Lexus should never have produced it and have compromised their reputation for quality in doing so.

While we're at it I don't think the 250 has the same kudos of the 200/300 first generation, or design and build quality, except in the engine and auto gearbox department where it's a vast improvement. The 'toys' are available on most makes now so I don't consider them in the comparison.

Where did I say people aren't entitled to say what they feel? What I said was that there's something peculiar in the way the 220d is treated here. It's not at all in line with my experience and those reported by the real life 220d owners I've discussed with.

Never driven a first gen IS, but what I've read about it, a far inferior car to the 2nd gen. Design, in particular, was really awkward, whereas the 2nd gen is truly a beautiful car.

And while we're still at it: I didn't like the 250 A engine/gearbox combo that much. Every time I wanted it to go, it didn't. The only way to get it really moving is by kickdown, and quite frankly the lag there is much worse than the turbo lag in the 220d. Heavy urban traffic is where the 250 A is better. Anywhere else it isn't, IMHO.

[Tango]

It's a member open forum not a fan club. If people feel the 220D is second rate compared to the BMW, Audi and even the Alfa Romeo diesel models then they are entitled to say so. IMHO Lexus should never have produced it and have compromised their reputation for quality in doing so.

While we're at it I don't think the 250 has the same kudos of the 200/300 first generation, or design and build quality, except in the engine and auto gearbox department where it's a vast improvement. The 'toys' are available on most makes now so I don't consider them in the comparison.

Where did I say people aren't entitled to say what they feel? What I said was that there's something peculiar in the way the 220d is treated here. It's not at all in line with my experience and those reported by the real life 220d owners I've discussed with.

Never driven a first gen IS, but what I've read about it, a far inferior car to the 2nd gen. Design, in particular, was really awkward, whereas the 2nd gen is truly a beautiful car.

And while we're still at it: I didn't like the 250 A engine/gearbox combo that much. Every time I wanted it to go, it didn't. The only way to get it really moving is by kickdown, and quite frankly the lag there is much worse than the turbo lag in the 220d. Heavy urban traffic is where the 250 A is better. Anywhere else it isn't, IMHO.

You're entitled to an opinion no matter how misguided.

[FinLex]

Thanks, you too! ;)

[GaryC]

Every time I wanted it to go, it didn't. The only way to get it really moving is by kickdown, and quite frankly the lag there is much worse than the turbo lag in the 220d.

What an absolute pile of rubbish. The IS250 is streets ahead of the 220d. More lag in a V6 petrol than a 4 cylinder turbodiesel ? What are you on ? Did you drive it for 3 minutes and form that opinion ? Yes if you are used to driving a diesel then a petrol won't seem to go unless you throttle it a bit. You need to adapt your driving.

[FinLex]

What an absolute pile of rubbish. The IS250 is streets ahead of the 220d. More lag in a V6 petrol than a 4 cylinder turbodiesel ? What are you on ? Did you drive it for 3 minutes and form that opinion ? Yes if you are used to driving a diesel then a petrol won't seem to go unless you throttle it a bit. You need to adapt your driving.

Calm down. I am entitled to my opinion, right? The lag I'm talking about is not from the engine, but from the gearbox. With my 220d I'm already on the right gear, whereas the auto box needs to downshift. The time between the moment I put my foot down and the moment the car starts to really accelerate is shorter with the diesel. Sure, you can use the paddles but seriously, no-one really does that in day-to-day driving.

I've driven the 250 Auto four times. A good dozen of hours, total.

I don't have to adapt my driving. I don't own a 250 Auto and don't intend to. However, I did adapt my driving to the 220d. This is the first diesel I've had. Been driving petrol cars all my life, a few of them with an auto gearbox.

[GaryC]

Sure, you can use the paddles but seriously, no-one really does that in day-to-day driving.

I use them all the time. Usually on country roads. Great fun.

[tash]

Its getting a bit heated this and not something I have seen on this site.

In truth neither the IS220d or the IS250 is competative with the direct diesel or petrol rival from BMW/Audi/Mercedes, just read the write up's, so why buy one??

I have a 220d and its suits me for the type of driving and mileage I do having swapped from a 06 06 Merc 220Cdi, the reason I got one is it is nice to drive, looks better than the competition, is well built and is very well priced £16995 for IS220d 07 07 10K miles with 17" SE wheels and metallic

My wife has a new 325d M sport and it wipes the floor with the IS in some/most ways but is no where near the long distance relaxed driver the IS is so each to their own

I have driven the IS200, a friend had a Y reg one at the same time as I had a Y reg 325i Sport....guess what...driving back to back the Lexus could not hold a light to the BM, but which one won all the awards for customer satisfaction and reliabilty and had the strongest following!

[TED]

You'll find on this post all we know so far regarding the 2009 IS250/220d:

US Clublexus.com forum

[new boy]

I am looking to buy an IS 220d but was wondering if a new model or facelift was coming out any time soon. As it is 3years+ old. Any idea cheers

Being a member of the LOC and a daily reader of the forum I can understand and sympathise with the disappointment the 220d has been to some of our members.

In my case I have had my 220 since August 07 only done 5600 miles and have not (touch wood) experienced the problems others have had, with rattles and poor MPG. This is my first Lexus and diesel and it has been said you do adapt to the small change in driving technique to cope with the difference from a petrol engine and the gearing ratios. A present I average 41mpg commuting to work which is only 12 miles each way mainly on B roads and on my last longish run it returned 52mpg at which I was pleasantly surprised. I am one of the happy owners and enjoy and look forward to driving my car, but I will always contend that a good petrol engine is difficult to beat even which the technology built into the modern day diesel.

Merv

[tash]

Agree Merv, mine is an 07 07 as said, engine is extremely quiet, doesn't sound like a diesel at all, current average having done 3000 miles is 39.8mpg with current tank at 40.6mpg, best i have had is 48.9mpg on a run of 80 miles with cruise steady driving. I am impressed with the iS220d and would have another but probably a Sport with toys, I think you can get a bargain. Don't have an issue with diesels having had them since 1999 and find them more flexible to drive on motoways.

Read the changes for 09 and they appear minor

[GaryC]

Yep. I think any owner of a new generation IS should be happy as they are great cars and are very handsome indeed.

Far better than the ten a penny BMW 3 series which outnumber the Lexus by considerable amounts because What Car says they are better.

The issue I have is with LexFin saying "Heavy urban traffic is where the 250 A is better. Anywhere else it isn't, IMHO." which is total rubbish.

Ok it's his opinion but it's total tosh I'm afraid. My last car was a 5 cylinder 2.7 turbo diesel with similar 0-60 and far superior torque but my IS250 is miles quicker and refinement is another league.

[FinLex]

It is my honest opinion. Has been all along, but hitherto I've kept it to myself. I really didn't mean to put down the 250 A, but since so many 250 A owners seem to give expert opinions on the 220d...

Both are great cars. Both have strengths and weaknesses. Both have competitors that are better in some ways and worse in others.

[Matus]

There's something very peculiar in the way some members of this community are so eager to crucify the 220d...

It's a member open forum not a fan club. If people feel the 220D is second rate compared to the BMW, Audi and even the Alfa Romeo diesel models then they are entitled to say so.

I don't feel the 220d second rate, but also I don't feel the need to oppose/reply to everyone who says it is...

And also, I don't have the need to bless the diesel each time when I see IS220d, but some people here behave like bull seeing red rag, when they see the D. And, then the discussion is:

1. I have 220d and I need help with tires. Answer: 220d is sh-it

2. I have 220d and I have problem with key fob. Answer: 220d is ****.

3. I have 220d and I have the problem with paint. Answer: 220d is ****.

4..........

5.........

6.........

what is this all about?

I haven't been on this forum for month or so, but nothing has changed...