Not A Happy (easter) Bunny

[lexicon]

Yesterday I had my 40k service.

I was quoted £345, which seemed a little steep but acceptable. I also mentioned that there was some corrosion on the rear offside disc.

The dealer phoned later in the day to tell me that a brake pad had stuck causing the brake not to function properly and would require new discs and pads at a cost of an additional £300 (this was later reduced by about £45).

I don’t really accept that brake pads seizing is “wear and tear” which is how they described it. The car is never parked-up for very long, which is why it’s done 40k in a little over 18 months, so it can hardly be blamed on lack of use and it has been dealer serviced every 10k.

Am I being unreasonable in expecting this to be carried out under warranty?

[Matthew_McNally]

OK - I'm not the most car / technical guy on here - I'm sure some else will give you a more specific answer.

My reasoning is;

The brake disk seizing is not right - this is a failure on the mechanics of the car. It is not wear and tear - it is something that is broke.

The car < 3 years old.

Therefore this work should be covered by the warranty

if this is wear and tear - can we all expect our brkaes to seize by 40k miles?

[no_BMW///M5_offense]

Seriously though,

check out exactly what your warranty covers. If it seems as if it wont cover it, cuz its been too long over the warranty etc..you should still have the dealer you bought it from pay your extra costs. Cuz brk dsks aint wear and tear! They shouldnt break after only 18K!!!!!

Also, go on the web, check out your rights legally...I did this when I needed to get my new car fixed, checked the right paragraph (!) and smacked that in my c****llers face!

(They ended up paying for it all....)

HazMaytrazz

[javadude]

If it makes you feel any better I paid £560 for 40k service and front/rear pads being replaced. (Mind you my pads had just worn, not seized and it's out of warranty anyway.)

It's in for water pump leak and wobbly ball joints next week - about another £5-600.

And it needs a new set of tyres. (and alloys :D)

:( :( :(

[Monster-Mat]

a siezed caliper should be covered under warrenty

[Matthew_McNally]

I get two things from this thread.

1 - brakes usually need changing around 40k - which I am screaming towards!

2 - Lexus brakes are quite expensive (surprise, surprise!)

so - I'm off to the group buy thread to vote for EBC pads and disks, will get springs from the next one :D

[Matthew_McNally]

wobbly ball joints

ouch

/matt crosses legs

[GRiM]

M.T.B.F

Mean Time Bewteen Failure

What every manufacturer that offers a warranty, hates you knowing about.

Unless they wish to advertise it, as part of their products attraction.

Basically if an item is designed to last a given time, e.g. 2, 3 or years 5 etc, then the MTBF is the average life expectancy of that product. (Based on what is considered normal use for that product.)

So if your brakes are expected to last 40K miles then you'll find the MTBF is over 50K. i.e. the manufacture expects the product to last over 50K so can comfortably offer you a warranty up to 40K.

If however, the product fails well below the manufacturers own MTBF figure, then you should have a perfectly legitimate claim to have it replaced. Even if you are out of warranty.

Remember, your claim is with the manufacturer, NOT the seller. The seller can charge you to pay for labour to replace it.

Proven (at least in American courts) to override the warranty given on products.

Give it a shot, ask Lexus to ask the manufacturer, what is the expected MTBF under normal wear & tear conditions, and they'll reluctantly go away and come back with a figure well over the mileage/time when your pads failed.

You WILL have to argue the normal wear and tear aspect though.

[furtive]

I had a seized calliper replaced on my old MR2 under a Toyota used car warranty which I would assume to be not as good as a new Lexus warranty. I had to get them to speak to Toyota GB to get it approved, but it didn't cost me a penny. Might be worth speaking to the dealer, and then if you get no joy, speaking to Lexus UK

[UKPulse]

Well the Lexus warranty states...

Any defect that is attributable to a manufacturing or assembly defect under normal use is covered by your warranty. This provision applies for a period of 3 years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first, with no mileage limitation for the first year"

I would say that driving an IS200 for 40K miles on UK roads, complete with pot holes and salt/grit of which Lexus must be well aware if they are to market vehicles in the UK as 'fit for purpose', constitutes NORMAL USE.

For Lexus or the local dealer to attribute caliper failure after 40K miles to "normal wear & tear", I'd think they would have to produce evidence to support this in order to reject a warranty claim. Such evidence would need to show that most or all IS200 calipers fail in this way at 40K...??? :o Alternatively, they would have to demonstrate that your use of the vehicle far exceeds "normal use"!

Whack that claim in mate! :)

[DaveEllen]

My 2p worth is that a seized caliper at 40k is NOT acceptable in any car (used normally) let alone a quality car.

Threaten Lexus GB with exposure to Autoexpress stating that this is acceptable for a lexus (your problem).........baaaaaaad pubilicity normally concentrates the mind

[lexicon]

The thing the dealer used as a get-out here, is that it was the pad, and NOT the caliper that had seized.

They were quite open about the fact that if the caliper had seized they would have done the lot under warranty, BUT as it was the pad at fault (and that is a consumable item) it is a wear and tear issue - personally I thought that this was splitting hairs somewhat, I really don't expect this kind of problem on fully serviced car in daily use - something I have pointed out in the letter that I'm about to post.

Still at least I have shiny black disc hubs now - they were going rusty too. I just need to sort my spotty calipers out and everything will be fine (apart from the stone chips of course) - what is it with Lexus and corrosion

[Matthew_McNally]

The thing the dealer used as a get-out  here, is that it was the pad, and NOT the caliper that had seized.

ok - I'll show my ignorance (again! :D )

I thought the brake pad was a solid object, with no moving parts, and that it was the calipers that move the pad up against the disk?

[furtive]

Exactly. A pad cannot seize. They are trying to pull a fast one. If the pad is stuck it's a fault with the caliper not the pad.

If it's the pad that is at fault, which it isn't, then replacing the pad should fix the problem, which it doesn't.

[UKPulse]

I agree... they're trying to pull a fast one. This could be classed as an "assembly defect" that has manifest itself after 40K miles of normal use. I.e. the vast majority of IS200 brake assemblies DON'T seize after 40K miles... because they've been assembled correctly. ;)

[mudzs]

I think it is like most warranty claims the more fuss you make the more you get if i was you i would go make a fuss, and if that did not work try a different dealer as i did with my volvo and it saved me £1500 on a new gearbox because the dealer could be bothered to phone head office and argue the case for me.

[DaveEllen]

I agree.......threaten the fatherless ones

[Matthew_McNally]

OK - this is bull****, isn't it?

Think its name and shame time.

Lexicon - we need to know the name of the dealership, and the name of the services manager who is trying to con you.

Then you need to put in a dealer review.

Then you need to to write to Lexus and the dealership complaining about it (explaining that you are posting all of this on here - where 25,000+ Lexus owners a month read it)

kick up a fuss.

[lexicon]

I have written a letter to the dealer, in which I have made my feelings clear and hinted that if they would like me to remain a customer and buy another car from them, then I'd like some satisfaction from them.

If that doesn't work then I'll be writing to Lexus UK.

[furtive]

I would suggest making a scene in the showroom. Maybe on a Saturday afternoon when they are really busy trying to sell some cars.

Fleeing potential customers will soon get them to come round.

[lexicon]

A bit of an update;

Having waited 2 weeks to see what response my letter to the dealer got (none at all) I called in yesterday to:

i) see what they had to say about the situation and

ii) book the car in again because the brakes still aren't OK - I have a slight vibration under braking, and a new problem in that they squeak when NOT braking.

To the dealer's credit, they knew who I was and why I was there and apologised for not replying to my letter before I had chance to say anything.

The bad news is that they have spoken to Lexus GB who are adamant that the problem with the pad will NOT be covered under warranty.

So, I now need to write to Lexus GB direct and persue it some more.

Does anybody know the best person/department etc that I should address it to?

[Monster-Mat]

yes the head of lexus GB.....Which im sure some one will pm you....

[lexicon]

yes the head of lexus GB.....Which im sure some one will pm you....

Yes, somebody has! Thank you, kind Administrator :D