A Month On Without The Lexus

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Well a month on and...it's time to go from this forum and make new friends at the e60 forum.

I thought I'd end by giving you a quick summary of how the last month has gone (for those interested).

New car is everything I expected, and so are the dealers. The sales bit went quite well, in fact excellent, but they owe me £80 for my old cars road tax. They can't find the tax disc in spit of the agreement when the sale was done...and in spite of the sales manager agreeing to giving me a cheque 2 weeks ago, I still have nothing. Oh boy - they have failed in their "due care and attention" post sales. So things can only get better bad luck follows me verywhere I go. In my past life I must have broken a shed load of mirrors...may be a shed a load of mirrors off the back of a truck... :shutit:

What about the new car

The Bad points are:

Lack of toys. Even with Leather and Media pack, it needs a few things such as Heated seats, USB, folding mirrors and Visibility Pack. The standard lights are not as good as the IS's standards were. In fact they are as feable as the Audi's were. I'm looking into getting the new Phillips H7+80's, may be even a HID/Xenon upgrade.

iDrive - try to use it without Voice Commands for the first few weeks and it is distracting and frustrating...but ou do get used to it

The CD changer will not play MP3's. This is a royal pain, but the CD slot in the head unit does. So you need to specify the USB port...The standard sound system is merely adequate, and it needs the HiFi speaker system as a minimum standard. The Individal Audio in a BMW is actually superb, and bassier than the MLS. But not good enough to justify an extra £1500 though!

The Satnav - the BMWConnectedDrive, OnLine and TMC are excellent, but trying to get it to take logical physical route to a destination is mind boggling. It can't seem to differentiate between A, B or Country dirt tracks...so programming "Fast Route" can take you through a field one minute, and onto a Motorway the next...whereas the Lexus one NEVER took me down the dirt track on my regular commutes...The resolution of the 8.8" screen is a bit poor too, but adequate.

Good points are:

Fuel Consumption. Anyone with an IS getting low to mid 40's and happy, look away right now. The BMW averaged 49.84MPG on a run at the pumps this week - driven exactly as I would have in the Lexus - 230 miles yadaa yadaa. Unbelievable, but it gets close enough to the official 53.8. It just goes to prove that it was nothing to do with me or my driving when the Lexus was averaging 37! I have a gentle driving style and can always get the best out of any car, which is why I have always been able to close in on or exceed even the government figures for most cars. I don't drive slowly either - just sensibly. Almost always at the speed limits....just as I did in the Lexus. I feel totally vindicated by this and shows that something was fundamentally wrong!

Road Noise and comfort - both excellent in the BMW. At times it is earyily quiet, and the engine sounds more V8 than S6 Oiler when pushed. Again excellent. Very very little wind noise too...concrete sections of a motorway, or the ruff stuff on the M1 btween J16-J19 is very subdued...

Handling - amazing for a big car. Ride is quite hard, but not choppy or bouncy, and at speed it glides. The steering is just awesome - it positively sings to you and you can thread the car into every corner like threading a needle. For a big car it is just amazing.

Not a single rattle or squeak yet

Seats - the sports seats are exceptionally good for supporting your buttom and back, and you don't sink in.

Autobox is so useable, and very SMG like (though not as quick) as it now a toggle lever in STronic mode. I have found that in STronic mode it will take 6th at 50mph/1100RPM, without any thrumming or vibration and maintain the speed with CC. Acceleration is glacial, but drop it into 5th and it flies...

BMWConnectedDrive - or the ability to programme destinations via Google Maps or BMW's website. The car has (i've been told) a 3g SIM card in it, and you can up load local information whilst on the move, or from the internet prior to leaving. It is just incredible and Lexus should take note of the BMWConnectedDrive systm. It is fantastic if you use it properly. It also has BMWAssist - and SOS facility incase you break down, need a hotel (they can zap it to the satnav), and auto SOS call (with your GPS coordinates) if you have a car crash where the air bags deploy. Great stuff!

Satnav - the TMC is much better than the Lexus one. The Dynamic guidance works exceptionally well, and is very reliable. When it says that there is ahold up, there always is (I confirmed with a call into AA Road watch 5 times)...and the screen shows black arrows indicating the severity...

Bluetooth - you can call up the phonebook from the phone via Bluetooth, so you don't need speed dials. You can use the scroll steering buttons/idrive to find a contact and dial.

Masses of space.

Visibility is good, and the A post is further from your head!! Water doesn't seem to fall onto the seats either when you open a door.

The iDrive, if combined with Voice Commands and soft programmable buttons is excellent, otherwise you get lost inthe system to start with! It does allow you to programme Day Running Lights, Auto Locking, how the indicators flash etc yourself. No dealer only Programming needed.

Auxiliary ventilation. You can actually ventilate the car by setting a timer (i.e. for before you get in). Very handy in Hot weather (when we get some) and it really works...

Things I miss from the Lexus:

The forum's - none are as good as this

Exclusivity

Sound System (MLS)

The Satnav routing as mentioned above - it is illogical in the roads it can take you down...

MP3's in the DVD Changer

Smart Access - keyless is definitely the way to go

I still think that Lexus IS i the best looking exec out there - wins hands down! It's gorgeous!

The BIGGY - the Rear Camera. It is wonderful and hats off to Lexus for making it available. I really do miss that one. The BMW PDC (front and rear) is visible and audible, and better than the Lexus non camera one (i.e the one from the SEL/Sports).

Things not needed or missed yet:

Seat ventilation (yet)

Touch Screen

Full Elec seating (BMW has partial (Backrest, height). Not needed the Lumbar Adjustment either (seat seems fine for me)

DVD Player

So...it's the final post and the long good bye comes to an end. A long time coming dgman might say, and may be some others, but everything that needs to be known is. Just keep it real and take care guys....might pop in to view now and again...and remember - there really is no Compact Exec that is as good VFM as the lexus IS.

Good luck and best wishes!

[Parthiban]

I don't think there's any reason to leave LOC behind completely........I'm sure you don't actually have to own a Lexus to come on here

Glad things are going well with the BMW so far, although I'm sorry to see that your troubles with the dealer have already started - quibbling over a promised £80 especially when you've just handed them a load of cash is exactly the service I've come to expect from BMW.............

Regarding your niggles:

Xenons - get yourself an HID kit, should cost no more than £150, you can fit it yourself in about 20 minutes and in my view is one of the best mods you can do...........especially if the lights are as bad as you're saying (in essence, do it now! :winky: )

iDrive - still haven't tried this, but drove a new C-class with the similar knob based system and did find it irritating how simple things require too much attention, wasn't particularly complicated but I always thought I was having to do more than I really should.

Media capabilities - get yourself one of THESE...............does absolutely everything you could possibly want all through the OEM controls :)

Satnav - I'm disappointed that even the newer satnavs seem to be as stupid as the one in our 2003 BMW, I'd have to agree that it picks the weirdest routes and on occasions doesn't even know where it's going............I'm interested in that ConnectedDrive thing though, that sounds seriously cool. I knew about the SOS function but not the other stuff which does sound very impressive

Rear view camera - I remember a dealer telling me a while back that the BMW rear view camera can be retrofitted (as I think it's a dealer fit option anyway)..........I'd be surprised if this isn't possible anymore, although I'm sure they'll charge quite a premium for the privilege which may not be worth it (it would probably be a lot cheaper to have a third party fit one, if you need it at all)

Agree about the customisation features, our Merc is the same and it makes life so much easier to be able to set those things yourself. However, it's quite a recent addition for BMW (our Z4 needs to be programmed by a dealer) so perhaps Lexus will make it available in the next few years.

Good luck with the new car :D

Btw, what happened with your plans for a convertible? Made any decision? Which are you leaning towards? Obviously wait till winter before buying anything though

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

I don't think there's any reason to leave LOC behind completely........I'm sure you don't actually have to own a Lexus to come on here

Glad things are going well with the BMW so far, although I'm sorry to see that your troubles with the dealer have already started - quibbling over a promised £80 especially when you've just handed them a load of cash is exactly the service I've come to expect from BMW.............

Regarding your niggles:

Xenons - get yourself an HID kit, should cost no more than £150, you can fit it yourself in about 20 minutes and in my view is one of the best mods you can do...........especially if the lights are as bad as you're saying (in essence, do it now! :winky: )

iDrive - still haven't tried this, but drove a new C-class with the similar knob based system and did find it irritating how simple things require too much attention, wasn't particularly complicated but I always thought I was having to do more than I really should.

Media capabilities - get yourself one of THESE...............does absolutely everything you could possibly want all through the OEM controls :)

Satnav - I'm disappointed that even the newer satnavs seem to be as stupid as the one in our 2003 BMW, I'd have to agree that it picks the weirdest routes and on occasions doesn't even know where it's going............I'm interested in that ConnectedDrive thing though, that sounds seriously cool. I knew about the SOS function but not the other stuff which does sound very impressive

Rear view camera - I remember a dealer telling me a while back that the BMW rear view camera can be retrofitted (as I think it's a dealer fit option anyway)..........I'd be surprised if this isn't possible anymore, although I'm sure they'll charge quite a premium for the privilege which may not be worth it (it would probably be a lot cheaper to have a third party fit one, if you need it at all)

Agree about the customisation features, our Merc is the same and it makes life so much easier to be able to set those things yourself. However, it's quite a recent addition for BMW (our Z4 needs to be programmed by a dealer) so perhaps Lexus will make it available in the next few years.

Good luck with the new car :D

Btw, what happened with your plans for a convertible? Made any decision? Which are you leaning towards? Obviously wait till winter before buying anything though

Thanks Parthiban - am waiting till December for the Convertible, then I will strike. A pre 2001 Merc SL is on the cards. It'll depreciate less and I won't have to pay £400 p/year just in tax...but then the wife wants a new house with prices falling...

Thanks for the Media stuff - I'll take a look. I've seen Xenon kits for £89.99, and are totally plug and play on BMW's. However, the LCI model apparently has a change to the CANBUS which means you have to go to the dealer to get some code entered (at a price) otherwise it keeps erroring and the lights flicker. I'll need to look into this.

And yes - I won't be a stranger. I'll probably keep coming onto the Lounge forum...

[BosniaLexus]

Victor -come back , come back....... Please, for the sake of LOC members who read this once a week, can you please give more info. Your BMW post was very interesting, but what is an E60? is that the current or the old 5 series? Did you trade youu lex and how did that go? How reliable is your E60? Yes, we love lexi, but we love cars too, so I am sure many lurkers where would like to know more. Also, if the car and dealer was what you expected I(good car, mean dealer) you may also find that the forum will be full of expected (different kinds of people - bmw drivers!!)

The great thing about his forum is there are no (or few) obnoxious typs of people, and the amount of interest in cars, knowledge of lexus and support is unbelievable. I hope (but doubt) you will find the same on BMW, as not enough lexus men have defected there to civiilize them!!! Best wishes in new car, and hope it works out well

[Maz]

Good Luck with your car matey, and do pop back whenever you like, love to hear from you, as for the BMW, i tried to price one the other night using the BMW site, for a 320d, wih all the extra i want it bump the price up to £43000+, alots more than the IS220d SEL spec, shame i couldnt afford it or i want to pay that much for a car....will try save some money and may change my for another IS in 2 to 4 years times, for now i just have to mods and mods my for a while...

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Good Luck with your car matey, and do pop back whenever you like, love to hear from you, as for the BMW, i tried to price one the other night using the BMW site, for a 320d, wih all the extra i want it bump the price up to £43000+, alots more than the IS220d SEL spec, shame i couldnt afford it or i want to pay that much for a car....will try save some money and may change my for another IS in 2 to 4 years times, for now i just have to mods and mods my for a while...

Cheers - It's an 2007 LCI E60 (latest model with Angel Eyes and wings front and rear), M Sport...

The £43k for a 320d - question is why would anyone spec up a 3 series to that level? Most of the extras on the SEL are useable, but some are just decorative...you take the extra's because they come with the car...

You would only ever pay for options you want...and I have to say this - you pay for a scintilating drive and solid engineering in a Beemer (I know some of you will larf). With a Lexus you pay for Luxury and toys...Lexus is an American Market aimed Marque...so it comes fully loaded as that is what sells cars in the states...

Horses for courses and all that...

[philthy]

I've just been looking at the Parkers VEL prices from 2010. The 520d SE Auto comes in at a stageringly low £125 for the year. Better fuel returns and power than the IS220d and a whole host more space for passengers and luggage including the much missed split fold rear seats. Sure it may not have as many "toys" but do you really need them? The beemer now looks a better option than the return to Volvo for me with it's variable service periods.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

I've just been looking at the Parkers VEL prices from 2010. The 520d SE Auto comes in at a stageringly low £125 for the year. Better fuel returns and power than the IS220d and a whole host more space for passengers and luggage including the much missed split fold rear seats. Sure it may not have as many "toys" but do you really need them? The beemer now looks a better option than the return to Volvo for me with it's variable service periods.

I would say that you should go drive one...the 520d compares well with an ISD from a straight line performance perspective, is better at the pumps, bigger, much quieter inside (road noise) etc and rides better overall...you WILL get 50mpg in that at the pumps if you drive it moderately and on a run where you don't exceed the speed limits too much!

The Lexus is better looking, has more toys, more exclusive etc - the 250 Auto makes so much more sense over the ISD that most ISD drivers get defensive when you mention it :shutit:

The only warning I would give is NOT to buy a manual 5 series (or ideally any Beemer for that matter)...they don't sell well. You need an Auto as you've stated figures for above - it's only 149 g/km Co2...

My 3.0l Auto is 172...

7 week Update for those interested:

1) I can't stay away from this forum despite promising... it's so much better than the Beemer ones

2) 5 series MPG update - consistently 29.2 in town, between 46-49 on a motorway run :winky: and when driven hard with a 50/50 Motorway/town, it drops to 40mpg overall...I CAN LIVE WITH THAT!

3) The Autobox is very very good, but not quite as silky as the IS250 Auto and you can feel gearchanges at times

4) I don't miss any of the toys the Lex had still except the reversing camera - even the lack of a premium sound system - my ears have finally tuned themselves to just 6 speakers and NO s/woofer... and it's actually good enough. The six speakers are positioned very well and of reasonable quality. It's just that with the MLS, you get a tad spoiled...

5) It's a big, wide car compared to the IS or any small exec...

6) The iDrive is good after some practice, but the new 3 series takes it further - it now has quick access buttons and a 8GB HDD, better Hi res Screen etc - almost Audi MMI standard...

7) Finally - the performance - the 525d has a slight lag, caused by the Auto 'box. It's the only thing that you need to get used to - but it's not as dangerous as the Lexus one where at times you feel you'll be T Boned at rundabouts...other than that it's crushingly quick! If yu use the S/Tronic (manual shifts) there IS NO LAG...Superb performance and the diesel 6 sounds lovely in kick down mode - almost US Muscle car standard and less "growly" than the 535d...

I know the Facelift IS is around the corner, but the competition has also moved ahead...Finally Philthy - go drive the new A6 - the facelifted one is exceptional. I drove one yesterday (Company hire car) and couldn't believe how good the outgoing model feels...it makes so much more sense than the new A4 which is not as good as the A6 IMHO. Even the new A6 can now be spec'd with an HDD/Navigation system etc etc...that's what Lexus needs...everyone else has it now!

[Lex Bhoy]

Aye, You can take the Scarlet out of the Lexus but you can't take the Lexus out of Scarlet...

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Aye, You can take the Scarlet out of the Lexus but you can't take the Lexus out of Scarlet...

Spoken like a true scot :winky: an very true too

[Northern Boys Luv Gravy]

Aye, You can take the Scarlet out of the Lexus but you can't take the Lexus out of Scarlet...

Spoken like a true scot :winky: an very true too

Blimey - is this the longest goodbye ever??? Scarlet/Jamboo - you've had more comebacks than Frank Sinatra!

LOL - only kidding, mate - glad to see you're still around and enjoying your Beemer - hope it continues to delight.

I got a letter from my dealer inviting me to a special open day with great deals on Lexus GB supplied cars and inbeatable offers. I think I'll pass though, I still love my 250 Auto and can see me keeping it for a good while yet - unless my circumstances change.. (Doris! stick the lottery on will you luv?).

Mrs Luvs Gravy has a rather nice 2.0T A3 (petrol) at the moment so if I want some gear knob fiddling action I take that for a blast.

[philthy]

How have you found the BMW side of our dealership compared to the Lexus side?

[Lex Bhoy]

I got a letter from my dealer inviting me to a special open day with great deals on Lexus GB supplied cars

Do you think they would swap my 220 SE with 10K on the clock for a RX400H...? Go on Mr Lexus you know you want to :)

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

How have you found the BMW side of our dealership compared to the Lexus side?

Now that is a good question:

The day we went to Sytner Leic was the day they were moving buildings - to their old site, but brand spanker of a building - and very impressive too!

We saw a lovely 530i SE, with Comfort Ventilated seats, Individual Audio (£1500 option), wood - in fact it almost matched a GS 300SEL in terms of kit, but it was a2007/07 with 27k on the clock. At £26850 it seemed like a good deal (would have been £51k OTR new - due to the mount of options - it was an LCI launch car).

Can you believe they wouldn't take me on a drive? They were too busy moving and couldn't get the key; the salesman was "distracted" and wanted me to buy the car there and then or walk...we said yes subject to a test drive - he goes to see a manager, comes back and says the car is sold.... :tsktsk:

So we walked...only to go outside and see an old friend of mine who was now working there as the General Business Manager!! So we got another appointmnt and did a deal on a different car another day...

Everything fom there onwards seemed absolutely perfect - totally immaculate! We collected the car, got the cherish transfer done...

Now the fun bit starts:

They claimed they gave me the tax disc to claim back off the old car when we collected the new one....eeerrr. Nope - they lost it! They also lost the Lexus's log book...and tried to make out I had lost it - until I proved to them via the DVLA that they had signed the yellow slip which I had posted back - so it was with them. Eventually they admitted a new Admin person lost it...

It has taken me 6 weeks to get my owed RFL back - only £80, but half a dozen calls, and the usual arrogant dealership experience which I hate. This actually harked back to when the Lexus dealrship lost my £6900 cheque when I bought the Lexus! I bet the DP still hasn't forgotten it!

I should mention here that both dealerships are owned by Penske/Sytner!

Neither dealership really ever even apologised....

So to answer your question, the BMW dealership experience so far is exactly the same as the Lexus one! And all BMW dealerships other than Peterborough and Derby are Sytner, so I'm sort of stuck. BTW - they own the Audi ones too....

But now lets get to reality...with German cars I expect shoddy dealership experiences - don't we all!? o they have met my expectation (though for a while I was agasped at how much better things were)....

It's a comedy of errors when I buy a car - any car!

Having said that - the car absolutely makes up for it...

PS - NBLG - for days I sat here reading the forum, thinking "do I, don't I", "do I don't I...."then I thort stuffit, I do!!!!!

[philthy]

How have you found the BMW side of our dealership compared to the Lexus side?

Now that is a good question:

The day we went to Sytner Leic was the day they were moving buildings - to their old site, but brand spanker of a building - and very impressive too!

We saw a lovely 530i SE, with Comfort Ventilated seats, Individual Audio (£1500 option), wood - in fact it almost matched a GS 300SEL in terms of kit, but it was a2007/07 with 27k on the clock. At £26850 it seemed like a good deal (would have been £51k OTR new - due to the mount of options - it was an LCI launch car).

Can you believe they wouldn't take me on a drive? They were too busy moving and couldn't get the key; the salesman was "distracted" and wanted me to buy the car there and then or walk...we said yes subject to a test drive - he goes to see a manager, comes back and says the car is sold.... :tsktsk:

So we walked...only to go outside and see an old friend of mine who was now working there as the General Business Manager!! So we got another appointmnt and did a deal on a different car another day...

Everything fom there onwards seemed absolutely perfect - totally immaculate! We collected the car, got the cherish transfer done...

Now the fun bit starts:

They claimed they gave me the tax disc to claim back off the old car when we collected the new one....eeerrr. Nope - they lost it! They also lost the Lexus's log book...and tried to make out I had lost it - until I proved to them via the DVLA that they had signed the yellow slip which I had posted back - so it was with them. Eventually they admitted a new Admin person lost it...

It has taken me 6 weeks to get my owed RFL back - only £80, but half a dozen calls, and the usual arrogant dealership experience which I hate. This actually harked back to when the Lexus dealrship lost my £6900 cheque when I bought the Lexus! I bet the DP still hasn't forgotten it!

I should mention here that both dealerships are owned by Penske/Sytner!

Neither dealership really ever even apologised....

So to answer your question, the BMW dealership experience so far is exactly the same as the Lexus one! And all BMW dealerships other than Peterborough and Derby are Sytner, so I'm sort of stuck. BTW - they own the Audi ones too....

But now lets get to reality...with German cars I expect shoddy dealership experiences - don't we all!? o they have met my expectation (though for a while I was agasped at how much better things were)....

It's a comedy of errors when I buy a car - any car!

Having said that - the car absolutely makes up for it...

PS - NBLG - for days I sat here reading the forum, thinking "do I, don't I", "do I don't I...."then I thort stuffit, I do!!!!!

That's interesting. We originally intended going for a 5 series but got put off by the staff attitudes. We got caught off guard at Lexus and believed all the bull about "Although we're part of the Sytner group, we don't actually operate their way as we're Lexus". We now of course know different. I wouldn't use Sytner anyway and would rely on servicing by the non-franchised garage I mentioned. I'd just need Sytner to reset any ECU service interval issues. I never realised that the Audi dealership was operated by them too. We walked out of there when the saleman clearly hadn't got a clue what he was talking about.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

That's interesting. We originally intended going for a 5 series but got put off by the staff attitudes. We got caught off guard at Lexus and believed all the bull about "Although we're part of the Sytner group, we don't actually operate their way as we're Lexus". We now of course know different. I wouldn't use Sytner anyway and would rely on servicing by the non-franchised garage I mentioned. I'd just need Sytner to reset any ECU service interval issues. I never realised that the Audi dealership was operated by them too. We walked out of there when the saleman clearly hadn't got a clue what he was talking about.

Northampton (Wollaston) is excellent. members of my wider family swear by them....and that is where we would have bought from had it not been for my mate who worked hard to get us a car we wanted, decent PEX price and with a cracking finance deal...

Seriously - drop me a PM if you want his details - go talk to them - you've nothing to lose!

[swager]

How have you found the BMW side of our dealership compared to the Lexus side?

well it a close call.after dealing with lexus over the last 3 years to date and dealing with BMW over the last 11 months there is not alot in it IMO with Lexus just shaving it on the customer care side and i always feel like the customer when i walk into my local Lexus dealer but feel like a stranger in the BMW dealership even after buying 3 cars from them over the last 12 months .as for the product - there both well engineered leaving out the debate on the IS220d but all manufactures have quality problems no matter how good quality control is during bulid .Lexus always try but do not alway get there and it seems you have to fight BMW to get a result.But i feel they will all have to look at their dealships in the light of the credit crunch and we will all see improvements with them being more customer focused .

cheers

swager

[philthy]

After a bit more digging and a visit to the dealership I found out the following:

The 5 series is rare to find as a used car with a split fold rear seat option as most owners wanting capacity increases opt for a touring model. You need to be looking at post '07 models for the cleaner burning engines effectively bumping up the price. Fuel wise the older engines will still give the 220d a run for their money but they will hit in the purse come VEL time. A '05 plate 525 will rush you £310 at the post office come 2010. A '08 plate 525 will only cost you £125.

Split fold rear seats is a major wish on our list and something we can't do without. A 5 series saloon has more boot space and leg/head room but it doesn't solve all our problems with the IS220d. Not even a 3 series saloon has split fold rear seats as standard again because of the touring model. Neither the 5 or 3 series features a ski tunnel either, so the IS does have them beat there.

Surely Volvo can't be the only manufacturer to recognise the market?

[Northern Boys Luv Gravy]

The A4 saloon can be had with or without a split folding rear seat.

[philthy]

Audi's are dull as dish water for me.

[dgman]

Audi's are dull as dish water for me.

i agree,its that huge in your face grill that i dislike and its on every model,car design from some manufactures is getting so boring.i think that the japs are leaps and bounds ahead on the styling front.

[ihpj]

TBH I quite like the Audi grill :)

I think it makes a statement and is bold. The Japanese styling isn't for me - altho' the RX is acceptable to me.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

The only Japanese cars that are leaps in front is the IS (G2), new Honda Accord and the new Mazda 6 (though it looks a bit too sculpted from some angles). They look very smart...

The other Lexus's all look a bit dated and uninspiring now (even the new LS looks a bit too square for me), the Scooby looks like something from Korea...they're not at all good IMHO....and Subaru have totally lost the plot! Nissans are well wierd - and the new Toyota's look strange - especially the new Avensis...which looks very square in the pictures...with headights almost going back to the A posts...

Mind you, I drive one of the ugliest cars on the road...though the body kit and wheel helps to soften the blow a bit...

The Audi A6 is a bit hit and miss...from some angles they look OK, direct head on it looks as if it will gobble you up....

Nope - the IS is still the best looking car...