Spa Incident

[Parthiban]

I did think the punishment Lewis Hamilton got on Sunday was a little harsh, but not undeserved, but then reading how the press blew it apart over the last few days I was wondering what people on here thought of it.........I'll give you my opinion and I'd like to hear what everyone else thought as well :)

Now I'm a big Kimi fan, but not really a Ferrari fan so I tend to be quite unbiased with this sort of thing, but as far as I'm concerned Lewis did commit an offence. If you watch the video he didn't really have track position heading into the final chicane, and Kimi was well alongside and within his rights to close the door on him. This pushed Lewis off to the escape road which was fine, but then he really should have dropped right back behind Kimi and then tried to overtake him again..............I didn't think it was sufficient to just pull alongside, let his nose drop behind, and then shoot off again - totally ridiculous of Lewis and the McLaren team to think that was enough.

However (and this is where it gets interesting), I don't think he should have been given the punishment. The fight was between Lewis and Kimi, so if Lewis had won and Kimi come second it would have been fine to do so, but with Kimi out of the race there was no need to penalise Lewis as it made no difference to the outcome of the race. If the incident had contributed to Kimi's crash, again he should have been punished but it was nothing to do with it at all.

Obviously this is just my view, so I'm really interested to hear what other people thought and if you disagree I'd like to know why :P

[aaronabbott]

my take is that the rules state that u have to let the driver take the place back if you overtook illegally which lewis did wether it was by 1cm or 1 mile he still let kimi in front,to which lewis still beat him underbraking into the next corner when the ferrari was the faster car,and then still kept his car on the wet track unlike kimi :D

[DJ Wozza]

.... but then he really should have dropped right back behind Kimi and then tried to overtake him again..............I didn't think it was sufficient to just pull alongside, let his nose drop behind, and then shoot off again ......

He yielded the position, Kimi was in front plain & simple, if Lewis's nose was completely behind the Ferrari,

that is proof enough that the position was yielded. I don't believe you have to let them have a 1 second,

2 second or longer gap when the driver is (correctly) back in front.

The FIA (Ferrari's Internal Advisors) should be ashamed if Maclaren's appeal is not sucessful.

Ever since the spying row last year, the FIA have had it in for Maclaren.

They know full well 40% of the kudos associated with the sport is there because of Ferrari, so they get the rub of the green.

Dodgy fuel last year..... hmmm came down on Ferrari's side...

Michael bumping Damon in Australia...... hmmm came down on Ferrari's side...

I don't think Maclaren have a cat in hells chance of winning their appeal here, but I wish them sucess.

Lewis let him infront across the line, the position was regained and Lewis was doing 6 Km/h less as the crossed the line.

The pit straight @ Spa is not long enough for getting a great tow IMO either, he just outbraked him plain & simple

in a car handling the conditions far better (proof being Kimi in the wall and Lewis no where near him @ the time.

If Lewis is not reinstated as winner of the Belgian GP, I'm not buying any more Ferrari's :tsktsk: :tsktsk:

[TheDon]

In the long run lewis was being forced into a potential crash/incident by Kimi... lewis was the one that not only prevented this reckless move by kimi wiping them both out but he also conceded... is there a specific time limit / distance limit for conceding the place.. or is it a case of being safe to do so.. in which case lewis went from his left to his right and traveled behind the car.. he conceded twice..

The better driver won that race.. lewis.. kimi didnt finish due to trying too hard and not being as good as lewis in the wet.. kimi held lewis up in my opinion.

but as was said before.. kimi never finished.. that manouvre didnt and couldnt effect the race outcome...

And what i think worried the FIA is that the race was actualy interesting.. and wasnt just a glorified one track scalextrix session.. what will the fia do if it all goes back to "racing" not "chasing".. dont panic mr mosley... its all good.. just give lewis back the title he so rightly deserves

[Steviewevie]

Maybe Lewis should have let Kimi past a bit more before trying to overtake again, but given how fast he was catching him, the decision has made a joke of F1. If the decision doesn't get changed on appeal then I'm seriously considering whether to watch any more F1 :(

[84Stoney]

I did think the punishment Lewis Hamilton got on Sunday was a little harsh, but not undeserved, but then reading how the press blew it apart over the last few days I was wondering what people on here thought of it.........I'll give you my opinion and I'd like to hear what everyone else thought as well :)

Now I'm a big Kimi fan, but not really a Ferrari fan so I tend to be quite unbiased with this sort of thing, but as far as I'm concerned Lewis did commit an offence. If you watch the video he didn't really have track position heading into the final chicane, and Kimi was well alongside and within his rights to close the door on him. This pushed Lewis off to the escape road which was fine, but then he really should have dropped right back behind Kimi and then tried to overtake him again..............I didn't think it was sufficient to just pull alongside, let his nose drop behind, and then shoot off again - totally ridiculous of Lewis and the McLaren team to think that was enough.

However (and this is where it gets interesting), I don't think he should have been given the punishment. The fight was between Lewis and Kimi, so if Lewis had won and Kimi come second it would have been fine to do so, but with Kimi out of the race there was no need to penalise Lewis as it made no difference to the outcome of the race. If the incident had contributed to Kimi's crash, again he should have been punished but it was nothing to do with it at all.

Obviously this is just my view, so I'm really interested to hear what other people thought and if you disagree I'd like to know why :P

I pretty much agree with you!

[Monster-Mat]

i think if the FIA, dont overturn there biased and shabby decision, F1 will be damaged forever, and the core supporters will go elsewhere.....

[DJ Wozza]

Bearing in mind also

Formula One legends, from Jackie Stewert to Nikki Lauda have claimed Hamilton was a victim of a conspiracy against McLaren

You know somethings seriously unpopular when a steward publically comes out to defend the decision. Alan Donnelly’s position as FIA representative amongst the stewards is questionable, bearing in mind he has no motorsports experience and has a substantial private business, which lists amongst it’s clients, the FIA and Ferrari. Of course he has no bias!

[GlynnB]

Well I have already made my mind up not to watch any more. What is the point of sitting for 2 hours to have the result overruled? The incident was far less dangerous than the Massa one in the previous race. When did Schumacher ever get points deducted for pushing Williams' cars off the track?

[dave1]

IMO Hamilton committed no offence. Bias to Ferrari is in danger of making the sport a joke. Massa got nothing for his pitlane antics last time. To put it in perspective, even Niki Lauda has gone on record saying what a ridiculous decision it was and he is surely extremely well qualified to comment on matters such as this. Maybe the sport needs an overhaul and a couple of ex-drivers being on the panel of stewards ruling on race incidents.

[nevarthur]

.... but then he really should have dropped right back behind Kimi and then tried to overtake him again..............I didn't think it was sufficient to just pull alongside, let his nose drop behind, and then shoot off again ......

He yielded the position, Kimi was in front plain & simple, if Lewis's nose was completely behind the Ferrari,

that is proof enough that the position was yielded. I don't believe you have to let them have a 1 second,

2 second or longer gap when the driver is (correctly) back in front.

The FIA (Ferrari's Internal Advisors) should be ashamed if Maclaren's appeal is not sucessful.

Ever since the spying row last year, the FIA have had it in for Maclaren.

They know full well 40% of the kudos associated with the sport is there because of Ferrari, so they get the rub of the green.

Dodgy fuel last year..... hmmm came down on Ferrari's side...

Michael bumping Damon in Australia...... hmmm came down on Ferrari's side...

I don't think Maclaren have a cat in hells chance of winning their appeal here, but I wish them sucess.

Lewis let him infront across the line, the position was regained and Lewis was doing 6 Km/h less as the crossed the line.

The pit straight @ Spa is not long enough for getting a great tow IMO either, he just outbraked him plain & simple

in a car handling the conditions far better (proof being Kimi in the wall and Lewis no where near him @ the time.

If Lewis is not reinstated as winner of the Belgian GP, I'm not buying any more Ferrari's :tsktsk: :tsktsk:

Hi Wozza,

Spot on, in my opinion.

That's two ferraris down for this year in their sales figures!

Nev

[Parthiban]

I'm not surprised by the support for the Lewis, but I'm really surprised at those who thought Kimi was in the wrong by defending the corner!

I'm not speaking as a Kimi fan but as a true racing enthusiast, I would have been appalled if he'd just yielded the position so easily...........Kimi had track position and the racing line, he has absolutely no reason to yield. I've also got respect for Lewis having a go at the move as that's what racing is all about!

Anyway, the issue here is not the cause of the punishment, because it was still totally deserved. Obviously I'm no expert but the way I've seen it happen in every form of racing is that it is judged whether there was an advantage when compared to what would have happened if he had not cut the corner. If this was the case, Lewis would have simply followed Kimi through the corner and been a fraction of a second behind him at the start of the straight. The superior straight line speed of the Ferrari would have meant that Lewis still wouldn't have caught him by the end of the straight (but most certainly would have nailed him at the next corner as he was so much faster)

This is what brought the stewards to the conclusion that he gained an unfair advantage, and I agree with them.

I don't believe comparisons with Massa's incident a few weeks ago is fair, I'm glad that they now don't penalise drivers for team mistakes. Although it was a really bad decision, Massa can't see what's going on behind him so has to rely on the team to let him go at the right time. In this case, Lewis is on track, he knows what happened and should have made the decision himself to tuck back in behind Kimi.

Having said all that, I still believe it was a ridiculous punishment as Kimi crashed out. Massa and Heidfeld were nowhere near Lewis, and this had no effect on them, so why should they finish before him in the results? If Kimi had finished second, then there would be reason to do it, but even then I would only want them to drop Lewis behind Kimi, there's no need to drop him any further down the order.

Just my 2ps worth, but I think I should be an FIA steward :P

@84Stoney: Cheers mate :D

[PCIronmike]

IMO I don't care F1 is as boring as cricket .LOL

I'm off to watch some paint dry .

[TheDon]

Massa can't see what's going on behind him so has to rely on the team to let him go at the right time

Last time i checked ferraris were also equiped with side/rear view mirrors....

And wasnt it the mirror watching (waiting for the pump handle to lift) that caused the problem!

In the end..

If there wasnt so so so much bias towards ferrari then there would not be so much public outcry..

I have been relitively neutral towards supporting all of the drivers as such.. but i can no longer stand the Ferarri Teams and what they represent.

[Parthiban]

Last time i checked ferraris were also equiped with side/rear view mirrors....

And wasnt it the mirror watching (waiting for the pump handle to lift) that caused the problem!

In the end..

If there wasnt so so so much bias towards ferrari then there would not be so much public outcry..

I have been relitively neutral towards supporting all of the drivers as such.. but i can no longer stand the Ferarri Teams and what they represent.

You can barely see anything out of the mirrors, they just wait for the green light to go - it was an over zealous chief mechanic that caused the problem.......

I still don't really like the Ferrari team but I don't believe there's a pro-Ferrari bias anymore, there hasn't been a single incident in the post Schumacher era to hint that Ferrari are getting any preferential treatment. Having said that there is now quite a serious anti-McLaren bias based on the events of last year (and rightly so in my opinion). I personally can't believe there wasn't a fuss from the general public as to the magnitude of what McLaren did last year, and that was purely because it was against Ferrari.

The fact that all the drivers themselves agreed to the fact that Lewis committed an offence is enough to agree that that was the case - although they all agree as I did that the punishment was too harsh as it didn't affect the outcome of the race :)

[DJ Wozza]

......I'm glad that they now don't penalise drivers for team mistakes....

so long as they drive a Ferrari

[TheDon]

lol, found this another forum

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Not quite good enough at driving?

Are other boys faster than you in the wet?

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Just to make things a little bit easier we've arranged a private second lane , just for you

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Had a crash? Need to win the world championship? Don't worry just limp across the track and take off your nearest championship title contender - we'll do the rest

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[TheDon]

just realised someone else might have posted this up too.. oops

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

However (and this is where it gets interesting), I don't think he should have been given the punishment. The fight was between Lewis and Kimi, so if Lewis had won and Kimi come second it would have been fine to do so, but with Kimi out of the race there was no need to penalise Lewis as it made no difference to the outcome of the race. If the incident had contributed to Kimi's crash, again he should have been punished but it was nothing to do with it at all.

Parthiban,

I think you've hit the nail on the head...they wanted to change the outcome of the race so penalised Lewis...ad also I think teh rules only state that you havge to let the person pass you. I don't think there is anything in the rules about then taking them at the next corner. By virtue of the fact that Lewis lifted, meant that he didn't have the momentum or any advantage. He simply outbreaked Kimi into the next corner...

They want this championship to go down to the wire, and don't care about McLaren at all. They are more interested in Ferrari and the maffia or whoever else runs procedings nowadays!

It's a big stitch up to be frank...and if this carries on people will just stop watching it again...

I'm not a huge Lewis fan TBH, but he has made such a difference to F1. the way he drove yesterday for me was ubelievable - the way he can just force the car in front of ANYONE on the track - Alonso was left reeling as he was passed, as was Kimi....and so on....

I would have loved to see him race Schuey in the WET! It would have been awesome. He is a racing driver and that is that, and the sport is the richer as a result.

And what about Vettel? He did the "Minows" proud and deserved everything that will come his way now...

If Lewis had gotten Inters on at his pit stop he would have been pushing Vettel, and that would really have been sad. As it happened, all happened well...and it was for me the race of the season so far...

If I recall, a man at Ferrari was also to blame for the leak last year, but they didn't get anywhere nearly a severe punishment as McLaren...I do think it's fixed!

[Parthiban]

There never was a rule that you had to wait till the next corner, this is something that's come out as a result of last week. However, the aspect that is always analysed is the relative position actually coming out of that corner...............which is why all the drivers agreed that an offence was committed because if he had followed Kimi through that corner, he would have been nowhere near him at the end of the straight thanks to the concertina effect that occurs.

Drivers get penalised for this offence on a regular basis (as Alonso mentioned he was himself) so just because it affects the championship contenders doesn't make it less of an offence which is why they had to treat it the same way as any other incident (although I still don't think it was necessary, I understand why they had to do it). Otherwise you'll get people jumping chicanes all the time, and they can all argue that Lewis got away with it, so why can't we?

Yep Lewis was amazing in the wet, but I don't think Kimi and Alonso not being on the pace was truly representative. Schumacher was unbelievable in the wet, and would have made a better job of it than Kimi did but still would not have been as strong as it was clear the Ferrari looks a right handful in those conditions. This was proved by the fact as soon as the track started to dry a little bit no one could touch Kimi's pace.............also proved by how in the dry the Ferrari eats up it's tyres much less than the McLaren.............

Truly awesome drive from Vettel though, really is one of the guys I'm looking out for in the future as he's going to be seriously good (I'd actually be interested in McLaren trying to swap him with Kovalainen) plus he's just a thoroughly nice guy :)

Oh and the guy who leaks the information is never going to get punished by the FIA (that's why Ferrari had to take action against them in Italy) it's always the team that used it that would get done (in the same way that the FIA doesn't punish the single man responsible at McLaren, it's the team as a whole)