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Farewell To Lexus - Or Good Riddance!


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The Lexus dealers obviously must vary a lot in quality. My own experience (Lexus Bracknell) was that this was my best dealer experience in over 30 years of motoring. I couldn't fault their sales service and would most definitely use them again. The handover experience when I picked up my car was excellent - even though I was buying from the cheapest end of the range I felt like I was treated as an LS buyer! The followup from them to check I was happy with the car was also excellent.

I agree - Lexus Bracknell have been brilliant as far as I have been concerned - even when I had rattles from a new GS they quite happily sourced a replacement car for me. Service has been great too.

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Two comments--------

a) Fail to understand why you do not take your cars to known good Lexus Dealers as the Good or ,indeed, Excellent Dealers are well known to this Forum:a 200 mile round- trip is nothing if resolution is reached & saves shed loads of precious money just jumping ship for a rival marque.

B) Depreciation is relative with all German Marques core values, for example, falling a touch further than the IS whilst their Factory-Fitted Options are valued @ near zero resulting in significant depreciation when compared with Lexus.

The Lexus Marque really is the Best but,like any other Goods or Services,the individual experience can be ruined by a statistically unrepresentative Player who will loose Sales & Service quickly if more Owners followed point a) above.

Tel :driving:

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A moral of this story is not to be rushed and not to allow yourself to be rushed. Its your car (new or old) that you are collecting, it takes as long as it takes IMHO as its always best to get niggles recorded and actioned before you drive away. It is regrettable, but you should never take the Salespersons word for it - if it isn't in writing, it just hasn't been mentioned.

I still think your experience is in the minority when Lexus are concerned, however, I have a very low tolerance for this kind of behaviour and would have ripped into them - I cannot stand shoddy service and they will know it.

I think the change is best - but watch out for the Volvo's timing belt (altho' diesels are chain IIRC) as they need changing a lot sooner than Volvo will tell you ;)

Be happy in you new car, and may it bring you many miles of happy motoring.

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Two comments--------

a) Fail to understand why you do not take your cars to known good Lexus Dealers as the Good or ,indeed, Excellent Dealers are well known to this Forum:a 200 mile round- trip is nothing if resolution is reached & saves shed loads of precious money just jumping ship for a rival marque.

B) Depreciation is relative with all German Marques core values, for example, falling a touch further than the IS whilst their Factory-Fitted Options are valued @ near zero resulting in significant depreciation when compared with Lexus.

The Lexus Marque really is the Best but,like any other Goods or Services,the individual experience can be ruined by a statistically unrepresentative Player who will loose Sales & Service quickly if more Owners followed point a) above.

Tel :driving:

fully agree.
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It's very much a horses for courses game.

I think the biggest problem is that there are no real independants around for Lexus - so the main dealers treat you how they like now - and largely get away with it. There just aren't enough Lexus Customers to make it viable...at least now I have access to loads within a 40 mile radius...all fighting for my business.

It was always an option - but I decided early on that I wasn't going to go 100 miles to find a dealer as both LGB and my local took away all of my confidence...it became a time game - how long could I leave it before I could jump ship - I think I knew it within 3 months of ownership!! I would not "pay" into a system that treated me like that - I'm too proud for that one! I'd rather jump ship...

As far as depreciation is concerned - there really is NO POINT in buying a well optioned new car with your own cash - Lexus or not...you'd be mad! If you did you'd have to keep the car until it became an antique...Else you'd go for the absolute minimum spec you need every time.

And how can Lexus afford to sell you a competitively priced car with a huge spec? That's the million dollar question - and one that has an answer if you think about it...

One final point - options in a BMW, from recent experience, they sell you options that are more functional. The Activ Seat vents - they pump air chilled by the AC through the entire Comfort seat - including backrest...not just fanned ambient air into seat sqwab like in the lexus; Bluetooth is more functional, including pre-wiring/sharkfin for a cradle (£20 on ebay) and full phone book access through the steering wheel, nonanny satnav, fully featured Voice activiation, much better Climate control (with modes here you can cool the interior down without you being thre, aux heaters so no scraping frost). and as I've just found, I can play MP3's on a DVD through the Satnav disc DVD slot - how cool!!

So yes - options are more expensive, but many actually do much more for your money!

BMW's aren't without their own problems - just do a search on "swirl Flaps" on google - you'll be shocked. At least BMW are paying for it all though...like free new engines :driving::yahoo: though they sorted it out for all diesel auto's made after 04/54!!

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It's very much a horses for courses game.

I think the biggest problem is that there are no real independants around for Lexus - so the main dealers treat you how they like now - and largely get away with it. There just aren't enough Lexus Customers to make it viable...at least now I have access to loads within a 40 mile radius...all fighting for my business.

It was always an option - but I decided early on that I wasn't going to go 100 miles to find a dealer as both LGB and my local took away all of my confidence...it became a time game - how long could I leave it before I could jump ship - I think I knew it within 3 months of ownership!! I would not "pay" into a system that treated me like that - I'm too proud for that one! I'd rather jump ship...

As far as depreciation is concerned - there really is NO POINT in buying a well optioned new car with your own cash - Lexus or not...you'd be mad! If you did you'd have to keep the car until it became an antique...Else you'd go for the absolute minimum spec you need every time.

And how can Lexus afford to sell you a competitively priced car with a huge spec? That's the million dollar question - and one that has an answer if you think about it...

One final point - options in a BMW, from recent experience, they sell you options that are more functional. The Activ Seat vents - they pump air chilled by the AC through the entire Comfort seat - including backrest...not just fanned ambient air into seat sqwab like in the lexus; Bluetooth is more functional, including pre-wiring/sharkfin for a cradle (£20 on ebay) and full phone book access through the steering wheel, nonanny satnav, fully featured Voice activiation, much better Climate control (with modes here you can cool the interior down without you being thre, aux heaters so no scraping frost). and as I've just found, I can play MP3's on a DVD through the Satnav disc DVD slot - how cool!!

So yes - options are more expensive, but many actually do much more for your money!

BMW's aren't without their own problems - just do a search on "swirl Flaps" on google - you'll be shocked. At least BMW are paying for it all though...like free new engines :driving::yahoo: though they sorted it out for all diesel auto's made after 04/54!!

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Re-Options------my seats blow con-air thru the seats & the Aux point takes the Mp3 doesn't it?

As for the MM,the Voice Activation is a touch laboured but it is sexy & a 7K hit to close-in but not match specs is a silly amount of money for a Marque that is

relatively LOW in all the major Global Reliabily reports & TG,What Car etc.

Tel

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I'm sorry but I didn't buy a car to drive up to 200 miles to get it serviced. That just isn't cost effective. I don't know where this myth comes from that Lexus are above every other brand out there. They simply aren't. You will always get badge loyalty and if that happens to be FSO because every car you've had from them was utterly reliable and you got treated like royalty by the staff each visit, then so be it. You might pay "through the nose" for a bavarian product compared to a Lexus, but what you're actually paying for is quality. No cheap plastics or hides on seats and switchgear borrowed from a Toyota.

The Lexus product is great if it's your thing, but there are equally as good products from other manufacturers out there and some that do the job better for the buyer. Lexus works for you? Fantastic, I'm very pleased for you. For others it doesn't. The architect who drew up the plans for some building work for me has owned Lexus for years now. A GS and an RX. Even he has noticed the difference in attitude and moved on.

Yes it is Sturgess Jamboo. I've known them for years and this will be my third car from them. The car is excellent in black sapphire with contrasting chrome with a mix of beige and black full leather with brushed aluminium inserts. Almost makes you want to sit in the back on a journey with the rear armrest fridge. :P

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I'm not a die-hard Lexus fan, but I'm still very pleased with my car. But compared to some of the newer models out there, the competition for new sales etc., there is a lot of good stuff that it going to give the people at Lexus something to think about.

For example, on a recent business trip to Germany, I was driven around in a new Audi A4 Avant (3 litre TDi Quattro) and wow, it was very nice indeed and definitely worth considering when my time is up with the IS. It came well spec'd and my colleague was delighted with it. (Don't know what difference is between a German and a UK spec'd car).

Mind you, unlike our nanny state here in the UK, the Germans are quite happy to let you do 250km/h on an unrestricted autobahn.

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I'm sorry but I didn't buy a car to drive up to 200 miles to get it serviced. That just isn't cost effective. I don't know where this myth comes from that Lexus are above every other brand out there. They simply aren't. You will always get badge loyalty and if that happens to be FSO because every car you've had from them was utterly reliable and you got treated like royalty by the staff each visit, then so be it. You might pay "through the nose" for a bavarian product compared to a Lexus, but what you're actually paying for is quality. No cheap plastics or hides on seats and switchgear borrowed from a Toyota.

The Lexus product is great if it's your thing, but there are equally as good products from other manufacturers out there and some that do the job better for the buyer. Lexus works for you? Fantastic, I'm very pleased for you. For others it doesn't. The architect who drew up the plans for some building work for me has owned Lexus for years now. A GS and an RX. Even he has noticed the difference in attitude and moved on.

Yes it is Sturgess Jamboo. I've known them for years and this will be my third car from them. The car is excellent in black sapphire with contrasting chrome with a mix of beige and black full leather with brushed aluminium inserts. Almost makes you want to sit in the back on a journey with the rear armrest fridge. :P

+1

Nice - very nice!

YeofLeeds - absolutely!! And it shows how good a diesel can be...that 3.0TDi is probably one of the best diesels around today if it's the new DPV (variable vane Turbo - behaves a bit like like a twin turbo...) - dare I say it - probably a better engine than the variable vane 194 bhp 3.0l one in my current car!!

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i can't agree with the veiw that bmw is a superior product in either engineering or quality of materials used.the previous 3 series model e46 is plagued with engine catastrophes.when you look at the bmwland forum every third post is about stripping engines down to try and avoid engine destruction.bmw have never admitted liability and have never issued recalls for this appaling situation.you don't here owners of is 200's telling tales of terminal engine failures.the paint finish on a bmw rivals that of a seville orange,then there is the leather upholstery which is very low rentand you have to pay a premium to get the same qualiy as standard leather in a lexus,then there's the key less ignition where you insert the key into the dash instead of the steering column now isn't that a leap forward,in a lexus you get a real keyless entry and ignition system.the reason why lexus can give this level of value is that they are far more efficient at building cars.if it was not for the japanesse manufacturers bmw would still be charging extra for electric windows.

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i can't agree with the veiw that bmw is a superior product in either engineering or quality of materials used.the previous 3 series model e46 is plagued with engine catastrophes.when you look at the bmwland forum every third post is about stripping engines down to try and avoid engine destruction.bmw have never admitted liability and have never issued recalls for this appaling situation.you don't here owners of is 200's telling tales of terminal engine failures.the paint finish on a bmw rivals that of a seville orange,then there is the leather upholstery which is very low rentand you have to pay a premium to get the same qualiy as standard leather in a lexus,then there's the key less ignition where you insert the key into the dash instead of the steering column now isn't that a leap forward,in a lexus you get a real keyless entry and ignition system.the reason why lexus can give this level of value is that they are far more efficient at building cars.if it was not for the japanesse manufacturers bmw would still be charging extra for electric windows.

Whilst that may have been true about the older generation of models, I don't think it can be labelled at more modern models. No doubt the freely available "extras" with all Japanese marques and not just Lexus, has made the big names up their game and offer more incentive to choose them. I also doubt the claim that Lexus leather is of a superior grade when complaints on here have been numerous about faults with it. The quality might be better in the more prestige Lexus models, but I don't think much attention to detail is lavished on the IS. Don't get me wrong, it's a good car. It just isn't as good as all the hype suggests. It's more a top of the range Toyota than a baby Lexus IMO. The first generation IS didn't do much for me, (each to their own), but it appears to have been marketed correctly as a fast rep mobile. The current IS is trying to be a compact luxury exec and it just doesn't do it. The IS250 is a better effort in that it leans more towards that fast rep mobile image. It's a great looking car and rear wheel drive making it a joy to drive in fast curves. But try sticking some suitcases in the boot and a couple of adult passengers in the rear seats. I hope you enjoy your IS as much as Jamboo enjoys his 5 series. Doesn't make either of you wrong in your choice if it meets your needs, just as the S80 meets mine. Some people hate Volvo, but I've never had a bad experience with them. Some people love Lexus because they've never had a bad experience. Jamboo and I have both had bad experiences at the hands of Lexus and could stand it no more. We're both right to walk away for our experience. If you're happy, your right to stay and continue enjoying the experience.

Roll on Saturday when I collect the car!

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You might pay "through the nose" for a bavarian product compared to a Lexus, but what you're actually paying for is quality. No cheap plastics or hides on seats and switchgear borrowed from a Toyota.

Had to step in here as this is absolute nonsense, I've said it before and I'll say it again, every time I've had an IS250 as a courtesy car, I'm always impressed how the interior is both put together better and the materials are much nicer than our german cars.........

Especially leather - germans use the worst quality c**p they can get their hands on unless you step up to the higher grades of leather which cost a fortune. Lexus use semi-aniline leather in all their cars which although is a little less practical, is so much nicer. However, the Germans are raising their game quality wise and I have no objection with your decision to move to Volvo if it's a better fit for you (as it seems the diesel IS really isn't great)

Although with people jumping from ISs into S80s and 5 series, I can't help thinking you've all bought the wrong cars in the first place.............we keep talking about suitcases and practicality - come on guys, a bigger car is going to have more space :whistling:

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philthy,the point raised about the previous generation 3 series was to show that it was sold as a premium quality brand and has serious short comings.but some people expect the lexus to stand shoulder to shoulder with brands costing much more money like for like.the bmw owners that i know have bought them because they want a certain image.we all know about the fifth injector issueand lexus have acted with a recall .and you are right the 220d is not a bad car at all mine is on 44k without any breakdown.i wish you luck with your volvo, i've never had one.the body styling does'nt float my boat,no offence.

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Although with people jumping from ISs into S80s and 5 series, I can't help thinking you've all bought the wrong cars in the first place.............we keep talking about suitcases and practicality - come on guys, a bigger car is going to have more space :whistling:

A 3 series has a bigger and more accessible load space than the IS as does the A4. You're right in my case that the wrong car was bought in the first place and you can't compare a S80 to an IS ordinarily. The point I make is I tried to downsize, but it just didn't work for me and anyone thinking of buying one should bear in mind the restrictions that are imposed on you space wise with any compact exec. WHere the S80 and 5 series do compete is on price. They may cost more in some aspects, but, as in my case, I paid around the same money I paid for my IS and got a whole lot more car for the money. I paid £17,500 for a base IS on a 56 plate in February. I've paid £18k for an SE spec 08 plate S80 now. That's a car that was only £23k new although it's clearly taken a huge hit in less than 12 months. That's a similar price to a new IS.

dgman no offence taken. All cars are an acquired taste to the owner. But I would concur with you if we were talking about that SKoda estate thing. :D

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It sounds as if a few nails are being hit on the head here.

The bar is continually being raised, hence my post about the A4 and Lexus will need to do some serious catching up with the next model.

Yes the boot space is not very good - took my mum and aunt to the airport the other day and they both had those old hard shell suitcases and it was a bit of a struggle to fit them in - split/fold would have been good. However, you can count the number of times I've had 4 up in the car on the fingers of one hand, but I appreciate those with kids who seem to want to take everything including the kitchen sink with them every time they get in the car would struggle.

But for just me and the missus, it suits our lifestyle just fine.

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I understand what you're saying about space issues, but as you said that is a problem with all compact execs. With these times of 4x4s, MPVs, mini MPVs and hatchbacks that look like MPVs, I'm really glad that the sports saloon has managed to survive - proper rear wheel drive saloons which are designed more about the way they look and drive rather than how many kids and their paraphernalia you can get in the car.............

At the end of the day, there are small cars that are very practical, things like the Passat and Mondeo (all far more spacious than any compact exec) but if you want the prestige brand to go with it there are things you need to sacrifice.

While I agree that both the reliability of the diesel and the customer service you have encountered has been unacceptable, blaming the car for space, etc isn't quite fair as it's the same with all its competitors. I had a new c-class as a hire car a few months ago and space wise it was almost identical to the IS.

I do like Volvos though, I think they look fantastic, I almost bought an S60 when I bought my IS, and I still think it's one of the best looking saloons on the road even after so many years. I don't think I can go back now though having had a proper rear wheel drive car, but other than that they're great cars.

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As Philthy says - everyone to their own...

dgman - The E46 failures you talk about are which ones? The swirls flaps? In some years, BMW have sold more 3 series than Ford sells Mondeos - who to? Largely company reps...who have thrashed the living daylights out of the 320d's...so these are failures which could be attributed to a hard life - no one knows! You can't really say that about ay Lexus - most are privately owned and lead simpler lives.

I mentioned those earlier on the LOC too, and only affect the diesels (not Petrol) made between 2000 and 2004 - mainly all auto's only - which had a partiicular type of inlet manifold and flap assembly (4mm spindles).

No one can give a number or percentage of failures, but most failures have been paid for by BMW (including new engines where appropriate) where the miles were less than 100k and the car had dealer service history - as you would expect. Those that didn't, or were close to 100k got a dscounted replacement if they wanted it...There are a lot of scared people on that forum who don't have FSH's on their cars and are doing the diy job - which is not stripping down the engine at all as you put it - just removing the swirl flaps from the inlet manifold, or replacing it with one from a car with a manual tranny/non swirl flap manifold.

In 2004/5, BMW changed the design and increased the size of the spindle by the comments on there which appears so far to have worked. Time will tell and hopefully mine will be gone by then - but the fuller facts are important. I read up on this before I bought the BMW - my Lexus experience made me do this. I wanted the LCI model - which hopefully has all gremlins like this ironed out. Never again would I buy a new design - those Lexus scars will remain forever!

True the Lexus never actually broke down, and engine failures in a Lexus are like hens teeth, but the facts still remain - there is something about German cars that feels "together" for me - it floats my boat far better than a Lexus....tried it, got the T shirt and all that! And all the german cars we've had in the wider family have so far been 100% reliable.

When we bought the IS, we did it with our eyes wide shut - over time we found it was too small, not that well designed or made - just sit in the back with someone over 5ft10" at the wheel with the seat right down...! My son actually got his foot caught under the seat - which could have been nasty if he'd injured himself. The boot wasn't huge, but the shape was a joke.

As for the leather - well the simple pimple dakota leather in our BMW is absolutely fine..It seems slightly "harder" than the Lexus one, but then so is the whole seat - it's all firm and supportive - and not spongy as the Lexus ones felt - especially around the side bolsters...the Lexus leather was getting shiny, whereas every BMW we have seen (old and new) with Dakota is still largely matt in appearance and appears to be wearing well...we tried Nasca Leather which was awesome...

As for quality - well we all have our opinions, some based on personal experiences, and others on stereotyped views - either way - it's what you're comfortable with that matters and it doesn't have to be justified...

Each to their own - I am very happy for every owner that have found the perfect car...

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Why are we getting so hung up about a base model diesel. Its the cheapest Lexus in the range, price now reflects its impracticaility and complete awfulness. Look on all approved cars people just arent buying these things and the price now reflects it. Brand new from 17K its hardly the car to compare with a BMW now is it :shifty:

Im sure if Philfy owned an IS250 auto or GS 300 we wouldnt be having this mass debate. Lexus made a lemon but lets not all get cut up about it.

To be honest after i drove the IS220D for a few days i thought the Astra CDTI was far superior thats how poor it was.

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Clearly we all believe in different qualities which define a great car.All I know is my Accountant was happy with my Mk1's running costs & ,as a privateer,

I am happy with mine since 2003.Lexus is the dominant Premium Supplier to the demanding American Market & this fact alone speaks volumes for the Marques Qualities over & above the pan-Europeans.Finally,I know c. 20 Lexus owners & I am the only Loc member &, I & many other members of this fine Club have been very happy with our purchases so I conclude that there are very few people indeed whose experience is so poor they "jump ship".

Our Club is open to all,muscle into the Rival's Forums & 90% of their posts are negative underlining the above.

I rest my case for the Defence of this Great Marque!

Tel :driving:

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Why are we getting so hung up about a base model diesel. Its the cheapest Lexus in the range, price now reflects its impracticaility and complete awfulness. Look on all approved cars people just arent buying these things and the price now reflects it. Brand new from 17K its hardly the car to compare with a BMW now is it :shifty:

Im sure if Philfy owned an IS250 auto or GS 300 we wouldnt be having this mass debate. Lexus made a lemon but lets not all get cut up about it.

To be honest after i drove the IS220D for a few days i thought the Astra CDTI was far superior thats how poor it was.

I think that's the point - space and diesel issues/rattles aside, I would still have mine if I'd done what eunos800 tried to convince me to do - and gone for the SE Auto/MM!! That is the one thing I regret. Having said that, the ISD has allowed us to find the "chink" in the armour of Lexus, the dealerships and the whole story has fallen with a thud for some of us who may never buy Lexus again...

I would consider one - but it would be a Lexus that was a Lexus through and through - a nice big petrol engined Auto...something like a GS300, may be even the SC430 though I've fallen out of love with the looks for some strange reason - it reminds me of a flying saucer!!!...!! Never a diesel or a Hybrid!

Americans love big thirsty cars, smooth shifting auto's and loads of kit - a Lexus hits the mark well. Afterall, Lexus was actually "Born" for the US consumer - so if it hadn't done well then it would be a dead duck!

PS - I can't wait to drive the new Infiniti's when they arrive. I drove one in Dubai and was seriously impressed - at the time when I had my IS - it just seemed bigger and better in most area's!

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One final point - options in a BMW, from recent experience, they sell you options that are more functional. The Activ Seat vents - they pump air chilled by the AC through the entire Comfort seat - including backrest...not just fanned ambient air into seat sqwab like in the lexus;

what do you think your back will say after 2-3 hours of fanning of cold air on it?

I think merc has the same and therefore I always heat and fan at the same time.

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One final point - options in a BMW, from recent experience, they sell you options that are more functional. The Activ Seat vents - they pump air chilled by the AC through the entire Comfort seat - including backrest...not just fanned ambient air into seat sqwab like in the lexus;

what do you think your back will say after 2-3 hours of fanning of cold air on it?

I think merc has the same and therefore I always heat and fan at the same time.

It doesn't blast air onto your back!! It's there to cool the seats on a really hot day - and it's temperature controlled, of course!

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Clearly we all believe in different qualities which define a great car.All I know is my Accountant was happy with my Mk1's running costs & ,as a privateer,

I am happy with mine since 2003.Lexus is the dominant Premium Supplier to the demanding American Market & this fact alone speaks volumes for the Marques Qualities over & above the pan-Europeans.Finally,I know c. 20 Lexus owners & I am the only Loc member &, I & many other members of this fine Club have been very happy with our purchases so I conclude that there are very few people indeed whose experience is so poor they "jump ship".

Our Club is open to all,muscle into the Rival's Forums & 90% of their posts are negative underlining the above.

I rest my case for the Defence of this Great Marque!

Tel :driving:

Here! Here! If folk aren't happy then there are plenty of other marques out there. Forums, no matter what for (and I have been a member since 2003, but also a member on the Mini, TypeR and XBOX 360 forums) are all about negativity. I try not to read too many posts otherwise it would appear that my car is about to implode due to a creaking dash or dodgy stereo. Is there a maker that doesnt have faults in their cars?

Just like the workplace, everyone is good at telling you when you've done something wrong, but never keen to give praise where its due.

I read a new post the other day, some new member couldn't wait to tell everyone he had just purchased a new IS220d. He was then bombarded with posts about what was wrong with the car. Give him and everyone else a break please.

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