Farewell To Lexus - Or Good Riddance!

[philthy]

Clearly we all believe in different qualities which define a great car.All I know is my Accountant was happy with my Mk1's running costs & ,as a privateer,

I am happy with mine since 2003.Lexus is the dominant Premium Supplier to the demanding American Market & this fact alone speaks volumes for the Marques Qualities over & above the pan-Europeans.Finally,I know c. 20 Lexus owners & I am the only Loc member &, I & many other members of this fine Club have been very happy with our purchases so I conclude that there are very few people indeed whose experience is so poor they "jump ship".

Our Club is open to all,muscle into the Rival's Forums & 90% of their posts are negative underlining the above.

I rest my case for the Defence of this Great Marque!

Tel

Here! Here! If folk aren't happy then there are plenty of other marques out there. Forums, no matter what for (and I have been a member since 2003, but also a member on the Mini, TypeR and XBOX 360 forums) are all about negativity. I try not to read too many posts otherwise it would appear that my car is about to implode due to a creaking dash or dodgy stereo. Is there a maker that doesnt have faults in their cars?

Just like the workplace, everyone is good at telling you when you've done something wrong, but never keen to give praise where its due.

I read a new post the other day, some new member couldn't wait to tell everyone he had just purchased a new IS220d. He was then bombarded with posts about what was wrong with the car. Give him and everyone else a break please.

I actually think it's right that owners put their thoughts and experiences across, both good and bad. It might save someone making similarly expensive mistakes. I've been quick to point out that my major issues are with space and dealership attitude. I've also commented that it is a great little car if it fits your bill. The diesel though has too many foibles for me and isn't a patch on the 250 auto.

[Exiled]

I actually think it's right that owners put their thoughts and experiences across, both good and bad. It might save someone making similarly expensive mistakes. I've been quick to point out that my major issues are with space and dealership attitude. I've also commented that it is a great little car if it fits your bill. The diesel though has too many foibles for me and isn't a patch on the 250 auto.

If it wasn't for the 220d there would'nt be much to talk about on this forum.

I agree with your sentiments above, it's unfortunate for some owners that they only come on the site after purchasing, for example, a 220d and due to the fact that a lot of the comments are of a negative nature it becomes a bit deflating for them.

With regard to your major issues with space in an IS, that's down to you, the car didn't shrink after you bought it.

On dealership attitude you've found a family run concern that value their customers, we go to a similar one which is privately owned, only one outlet and get properly looked after. I have a Lexus owning friend who travels from Yorkshire over to Lexus Chester to buy his cars, it's family run, Mitchell Group I think. Over the years he's called at all the dealerships in between but says none come close, he uses stronger terms.

Gib, in effect says lay off the negative criticism and give everyone a break, I'm sure he is well meaning but would he rather people lie?

On this forum lots of the regular contributers tell it how it is, that what makes it imo the best forum by miles.

[gib]

Gib, in effect says lay off the negative criticism and give everyone a break, I'm sure he is well meaning but would he rather people lie?

On this forum lots of the regular contributers tell it how it is, that what makes it imo the best forum by miles.

Yes and probably why a lot of people have left the forum as well - and if you've been a member as long as I have, at one point it became nothing more than a slanging match before people just didn't contribute anymore.

My neighbour has a BMW (some diesel thing that sounds like a taxi). It is utterly incomparable to mine in style. No one passes his door and looks at his car, because it is as common as Ford. But everyone has a second glance at mine, cause it's different.

Thats why I like the Lexus marque. Makes you stand out from all the other 'sheep' that thought BMW and Audi were best, when they ain't.

Good night, god bless.

[philthy]

Space isn't my only issue with the IS. The lack of split fold rear seats is a major issue for me. The fuel consumption is not as good as claimed. The 1st gear is terrible. 6th gear is a waste of time. Cabin noise is bad. I do not see the point in traveling any great distance to have a car serviced.

Here's an analogy for you; An IS is like the woman you pick up on a night out after an argument wiht your girlfriend and with the beer goggles on. She looks pretty and wears the right clothes. She entices you with her charms. In the morning and when fully sobre, you realise she's actually got a few problems and nowhere near as good as the girl you ditched. She farts, she swears, she insults your friends and family and makes you hanker back to your old girlfriend.

That's Lexus for you. :)

[doog442]

Space isn't my only issue with the IS. The lack of split fold rear seats is a major issue for me. The fuel consumption is not as good as claimed. The 1st gear is terrible. 6th gear is a waste of time. Cabin noise is bad. I do not see the point in traveling any great distance to have a car serviced.

Here's an analogy for you; An IS is like the woman you pick up on a night out after an argument wiht your girlfriend and with the beer goggles on. She looks pretty and wears the right clothes. She entices you with her charms. In the morning and when fully sobre, you realise she's actually got a few problems and nowhere near as good as the girl you ditched. She farts, she swears, she insults your friends and family and makes you hanker back to your old girlfriend.

That's Lexus for you. :)

dont you just love beer goggles ...

I too suffer the beer goggle effect when buying cars :duh: The only time I mislaid them was when I part ex'd a Lancia 2000 HPE for a Daihatsu charade 1ltr 3 cyclinder diesel turbo

[Exiled]

Gib, in effect says lay off the negative criticism and give everyone a break, I'm sure he is well meaning but would he rather people lie?

On this forum lots of the regular contributers tell it how it is, that what makes it imo the best forum by miles.

Yes and probably why a lot of people have left the forum as well - and if you've been a member as long as I have, at one point it became nothing more than a slanging match before people just didn't contribute anymore.

My neighbour has a BMW (some diesel thing that sounds like a taxi). It is utterly incomparable to mine in style. No one passes his door and looks at his car, because it is as common as Ford. But everyone has a second glance at mine, cause it's different.

Thats why I like the Lexus marque. Makes you stand out from all the other 'sheep' that thought BMW and Audi were best, when they ain't.

Good night, god bless.

It may be that your neighbour likes his BMW, perhaps he looked at a Lexus and didn't fancy the styling, in fact who knows he may even have thought they were ugly, have you asked him? Perhaps he just exercised his right to choose.

On the other hand he could be in a state of deep depression because no one looks at his car as they pass his door and everyone looks twice at yours, though somehow I doubt it.

[Exiled]

Space isn't my only issue with the IS. The lack of split fold rear seats is a major issue for me. The fuel consumption is not as good as claimed. The 1st gear is terrible. 6th gear is a waste of time. Cabin noise is bad. I do not see the point in traveling any great distance to have a car serviced.

Here's an analogy for you; An IS is like the woman you pick up on a night out after an argument wiht your girlfriend and with the beer goggles on. She looks pretty and wears the right clothes. She entices you with her charms. In the morning and when fully sobre, you realise she's actually got a few problems and nowhere near as good as the girl you ditched. She farts, she swears, she insults your friends and family and makes you hanker back to your old girlfriend.

That's Lexus for you. :)

Stop going around the houses, get it off your chest, tell us what you really think.

[philthy]

Space isn't my only issue with the IS. The lack of split fold rear seats is a major issue for me. The fuel consumption is not as good as claimed. The 1st gear is terrible. 6th gear is a waste of time. Cabin noise is bad. I do not see the point in traveling any great distance to have a car serviced.

Here's an analogy for you; An IS is like the woman you pick up on a night out after an argument wiht your girlfriend and with the beer goggles on. She looks pretty and wears the right clothes. She entices you with her charms. In the morning and when fully sobre, you realise she's actually got a few problems and nowhere near as good as the girl you ditched. She farts, she swears, she insults your friends and family and makes you hanker back to your old girlfriend.

That's Lexus for you. :)

Stop going around the houses, get it off your chest, tell us what you really think.

I can't, I'm too excited about eh weekend when I pick up the new car.

[dgman]

you would think by now that the former dissatisfied owners of the 220 would move on as they keep promising.i agree with gibb,they have nothing to offer that would be constuctive.even the comments from some posters who have never owned a 220 are negative,i have yet to hear any 220 owners or anybody for that matter slagging off the 250 because of a minority of engine rebuilds.

[fjcfarrar]

Space isn't my only issue with the IS. The lack of split fold rear seats is a major issue for me. The fuel consumption is not as good as claimed. The 1st gear is terrible. 6th gear is a waste of time. Cabin noise is bad. I do not see the point in traveling any great distance to have a car serviced.

Here's an analogy for you; An IS is like the woman you pick up on a night out after an argument wiht your girlfriend and with the beer goggles on. She looks pretty and wears the right clothes. She entices you with her charms. In the morning and when fully sobre, you realise she's actually got a few problems and nowhere near as good as the girl you ditched. She farts, she swears, she insults your friends and family and makes you hanker back to your old girlfriend.

That's Lexus for you. :)

Stop going around the houses, get it off your chest, tell us what you really think.

Well here goes. I've driven the 220D as a courtesy car when my IS200LE was being serviced. I thought it was a typical diesel - awful, and was always delighted to get the far superior IS200 back. But, and it is a big but, the 220D is the rock bottom entry level of the Lexus chain and essentially for people who need to be seen to have a decent car but but don't want to pay for it; so what do they expect? Every marque has at least one car in that category and nearly all of them are the equivalent of steerage class on a luxury liner. Having said that, buyers are entitled to cars that do what they say on the tin, are reliable and don't have nagging faults that the dealers try to ignore. In the end though, the 220D may well not be a very good car, and as such will quietly fade away, and fed-up owners will do what they have always done - get shot and buy something better, grumbling every inch of the way!

[philthy]

Space isn't my only issue with the IS. The lack of split fold rear seats is a major issue for me. The fuel consumption is not as good as claimed. The 1st gear is terrible. 6th gear is a waste of time. Cabin noise is bad. I do not see the point in traveling any great distance to have a car serviced.

Here's an analogy for you; An IS is like the woman you pick up on a night out after an argument wiht your girlfriend and with the beer goggles on. She looks pretty and wears the right clothes. She entices you with her charms. In the morning and when fully sobre, you realise she's actually got a few problems and nowhere near as good as the girl you ditched. She farts, she swears, she insults your friends and family and makes you hanker back to your old girlfriend.

That's Lexus for you. :)

Stop going around the houses, get it off your chest, tell us what you really think.

Well here goes. I've driven the 220D as a courtesy car when my IS200LE was being serviced. I thought it was a typical diesel - awful, and was always delighted to get the far superior IS200 back. But, and it is a big but, the 220D is the rock bottom entry level of the Lexus chain and essentially for people who need to be seen to have a decent car but but don't want to pay for it; so what do they expect? Every marque has at least one car in that category and nearly all of them are the equivalent of steerage class on a luxury liner. Having said that, buyers are entitled to cars that do what they say on the tin, are reliable and don't have nagging faults that the dealers try to ignore. In the end though, the 220D may well not be a very good car, and as such will quietly fade away, and fed-up owners will do what they have always done - get shot and buy something better, grumbling every inch of the way!

Nicely put.

[giorgoXXI]

I was watching Auto Trader (the TV program) the other day, and this guy wanted to buy a saloon/exec car for under 20K (used). The salesman gave him three options to test drive: the old top of the range Mondeo ST; the BMW 320d and the Lexus 220d. He discarded the Mondeo immediately due to the badge, and after deliberating between the BMW and the Lexus (and a couple of test drives), he finally chose the Lexus. My point is, being the BMW on paper supposedly so superior than the Lexus, why did he choose the Lexus? Moreover, why do customers keep buying the diesel version? Why doees the IS220D outsells the 250 in the UK?

Personally, I had a 250 SE-L Auto for 5 days as a courtesy car. Loved the quietness and refinement of the engine, but honestly couldn't wait to go back to my 220D Sport. The combination of a heavy car, with very little low end torque and an automatic box makes it a very dull car to drive, comfortable, but dull. The car feels really slow under normal driving conditions, you have to make the engine work hard to get any decent performance, quite the opposite from a diesel engine. Maybe the manual version of the 250 is more entertaining to drive, but then that gets taxed at the highest rate (+£400) per year. On top of that at 22 mpg it was far from economical to run.

At the end of the day it comes down to a matter of needs and choice, and for some the 220D still makes a lot of sense.

[dgman]

I was watching Auto Trader (the TV program) the other day, and this guy wanted to buy a saloon/exec car for under 20K (used). The salesman gave him three options to test drive: the old top of the range Mondeo ST; the BMW 320d and the Lexus 220d. He discarded the Mondeo immediately due to the badge, and after deliberating between the BMW and the Lexus (and a couple of test drives), he finally chose the Lexus. My point is, being the BMW on paper supposedly so superior than the Lexus, why did he choose the Lexus? Moreover, why do customers keep buying the diesel version? Why doees the IS220D outsells the 250 in the UK?

Personally, I had a 250 SE-L Auto for 5 days as a courtesy car. Loved the quietness and refinement of the engine, but honestly couldn't wait to go back to my 220D Sport. The combination of a heavy car, with very little low end torque and an automatic box makes it a very dull car to drive, comfortable, but dull. The car feels really slow under normal driving conditions, you have to make the engine work hard to get any decent performance, quite the opposite from a diesel engine. Maybe the manual version of the 250 is more entertaining to drive, but then that gets taxed at the highest rate (+£400) per year. On top of that at 22 mpg it was far from economical to run.

At the end of the day it comes down to a matter of needs and choice, and for some the 220D still makes a lot of sense.

he had probably been on bmwland as the other 124,000 people had wondering if by choosing the bmw would he end up with an 8k bill for a new engine in the ultimate ingestion machine.

[philthy]

Nah, it's because he's been fooled by all the hype.

[skyetripper]

Well here goes. I've driven the 220D as a courtesy car when my IS200LE was being serviced. I thought it was a typical diesel - awful, and was always delighted to get the far superior IS200 back. But, and it is a big but, the 220D is the rock bottom entry level of the Lexus chain and essentially for people who need to be seen to have a decent car but but don't want to pay for it; so what do they expect? Every marque has at least one car in that category and nearly all of them are the equivalent of steerage class on a luxury liner. Having said that, buyers are entitled to cars that do what they say on the tin, are reliable and don't have nagging faults that the dealers try to ignore. In the end though, the 220D may well not be a very good car, and as such will quietly fade away, and fed-up owners will do what they have always done - get shot and buy something better, grumbling every inch of the way!

Here! Here!

Has anyone driven a BMW 116i, its got nice steering and erm..................................... well its got nice steering. I've had eight 5 series BM's in the last 8 years, they were all good to drive, but the last two spent almost as much time at the (rubbish) dealers as they did on the road - lets just say that it's just as well that they offer warranties!

My 250 is great, and it's the same size as when I bought it

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Well it's the same rubbish dealers who run the Lexus AND BMW franchises where I am. As long as my Beemer spends less time at the shop than the Lexus, I'll be a happy bunny.

So far in 8 weeks, it's hasn't missed a beat, where as the Lexus had had to have New Vents, New Satnav, speaker rattles sorted out, gove box taken out, foamed at the back, and replaced, creaking seats fixed...do I need to go on...and that was within 3 weeks! It went to shop 7 times and still was pants...Then you read the Lexus Mag which goes on about how meticulously the cars are made at the factory. Who are they kidding!?

And as for the BMW engine problems - they seem to have affected the 2000-2004 models and diesels only - so lets not generalise! The Petrol ones from what I can tell are superb and from a performance, efficiency and sheer driveability are miles ahead of any Lexus engine I've encountered....

Oh - did I mention the fact that new IS came 20th in a Reliability survey conducted by FleetNews 50? It was beaten by all the BMW's you mention above.

Lets curb it here - all cars have problems. True the BMW ones ON THE DIESELS BEFORE 2004 have been bad, but no one here can argue that they are just much better to drive...even then some of the diesel failures were at well over 150k, so lets put it into perspective...and it's an easy DIY job to clean the Inlet manfold out every 30k to stop the swirl flaps from gunging up - so the facts are important!

And how many times have Lexus won Satisfaction surveys? Loads of imes - so when someone buys a Lexus, it's 'cos they want quality reliability. Un fortunately, not all of us have had that (or are getting it, especially when you have to travel miles to get good Lexus service)..so there is a serious inconsistency issue looming.

I just fear that sooner or later, Lexus will become the next Mercedes Benz...unless someone at Lexus takes heed of what has happened to several Lexus customers of late...and how dynamically inferior the ISD is compared to the 320d...albeit Marginally, but in key areas despite being a newer model overall - I'm talking handling, efficiency smoothness, quiteness etc...the Toyota cast off engine needs to be gone as it does have weakness's in the key areas...and they need to decide whether it's diesel or Hybrid as a future and not this "appeasement" for europe - and then do a proper job as currently there is no Lexus with less than 164 g/km. That's a big problem now there isa credit crunch and with the tax man doing what he is doing...that's why there are 20 BMW's sold to every Lexus...and it won't get better...

Even the IS250 Auto - it is the best IS, but as posted above, it isn't quick,and certainly not as entertaining to drive as a C200K or 325i (which just blows it away). The new A4 is a closer match to the Lexus from a drivig perspective...

May be some of us who defected might just come back, but Lexus do need to make some impovements quickly...any car on the road with >200g/km will be seen as being politically incorrect within 2-4 years...so an IS HYbrid with 125odd g/km is the absolute minimum they need to make it survive beyond 2010...

These are my personal views - I say it like I see it...

[Northern Boys Luv Gravy]

Actually the fact that there are 20 BMWs sold to every Lexus was one of the main reasons I chose Lexus. :)

As I've said before I was never that impressed by the IS220ds I've had as courtesy cars - but then again I think you need to drive a car for a few days before you really get a feel for it. IS220d drivers complain the 250 auto is slow but believe me slip it into manual and use the paddles and the thing absolutely flies. I know three people that are so delighted with their IS220ds that they have ordered new ones when their current lease runs out so obviously not all drivers are unhappy.

I also laugh when people start going on about Mercedes or BMW depth of quality - as if somehow a Merc or BMW engine is made to a higher standard or quality than a Toyota engine - absolute nonesense. In fact historical data would suggest otherwise. Mercedes engineers used to claim that they spent just 300 euros in extra engineering on their mainstream models but it enabled them to charge 3000 euros extra over their competitors from Ford and GM. I think there's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

NBLG - The latest Merc are much better than those from 4-6 years ago - they were aweful. The Petrol engines too are not that good - not terribly efficient, but they have invested heavily into "Blue" type diesel technology - so watch this space...the newer MB Diesels which are around teh corner are supposed to be amazing...and I heard from a friend in Germany that they will be making them so that they can run on Biodiesel too...

There is no denying that overall, Toyota and Lexus engines are made extremely well... they seem to be buletproof - no matter what miles etc, but they always seem to fall over when it comes to efficiency. The others are all trying really hard to push design rules to the maximum, and invent new rules, which is sometimes the thing that bites them afterwords...especilly when things have been over designed, and overcomplicated, and then fall into the engine (swirl flaps on diesel BMW's!)!!

[dgman]

swager,you have had major problems with your 320d,what were they?

[philthy]

Let's make this clear again; space wasn't the only reason I am getting shot of the ISD. It is a major factor for me, but not the only factor. I was fully aware of how small it was, but we were trying to downsize. It's too much of a compromise for us now we have to regularly carry adult sized passengers in the rear and install car seats for kids. Carrying paddock stands, spare fairings, sprockets, tools, wets on wheels, slicks etc etc is impossible. I can do it in the S80.

As Jamboo says, every manufacturer has dissatisfied customers. In Jamboo and myself, to name but two, you have two very dissatisfied Lexus customers. This is a forum for Lexus. It is quite right that we shout from the rooftops how bad our experience of the marque has been so that any prospective ISD owner can have access to all views. It would be distinctly unfair if a prospective buyer only had "My car is great" tales to help make the decision. If you want to shout about shoddy BMWs, Mercs, Audis etc etc, feel free to do it on their forums if you feel it redresses the balance for you, but you can't stop or prevent us from airing our views here. Our views are based on actual owenership and not speculation. Our experiences at the hands of the dealer involve the same dealership too. That really does say something. You can offer your own experience of Lexus ownership, but it doesn't mean that our experiences of the brand are false.

I'm pretty happy that in an organisation of over 3,000 staff, word has got around how bad my experience of Lexus were, that no one is interested in buying the car even at the part ex price, which would save them around £2 - 2,500 off the forecourt price. IF they each tell one person, that's a lot of customers who won't give Lexus a second glance. A satisfied customer won't influence half that number. Lexus GB really should wake up.

[Boothby Coggles]

As Jamboo says, every manufacturer has dissatisfied customers. In Jamboo and myself, to name but two, you have two very dissatisfied Lexus customers.

I'm pretty happy that in an organisation of over 3,000 staff, word has got around how bad my experience of Lexus were, that no one is interested in buying the car even at the part ex price, which would save them around £2 - 2,500 off the forecourt price. IF they each tell one person, that's a lot of customers who won't give Lexus a second glance. A satisfied customer won't influence half that number. Lexus GB really should wake up.

Make that three - I'm putting up with mine FOR NOW. My biggest gripe is with Lexus GB however - I'm still waiting for the promised communication from them since my "disagreement" with my selling dealer was concluded some months ago.

Lexus would do well to remind themselves every so often of the old saying "A satisfied customer will tell 1 person, a dissatisfied one will tell 10". That however is out of date in these days of electronic communication, it should read "will tell thousands".

[Tel]

Boothby,Philphy & Scarlett ? Did any of you try another Dealer to resolve your unacceptable issues as this would have saved you heartache & delivered you the car you beleived you purchased.?

If not please say why as there are some great Lexus dealers & you would have saved yourselves a load of cash &,just as important,aggro that no-one deserves!

Tel

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Simple: Sorry - there is no credible option.

EDIT: And why should I not be able to be able to take my £30k car to any dealership and not get the same famous #1 Lex Customer Service?

[philthy]

But why would I want to waste more money by travelling to another county? If I have a warranty issue I want to go and talk face to face with whoever handles my complaint. I'm not driving to Coventry, Derby, Oxford, Birmingham or wherever every week when Lexus fail to deliver. I base my car purchases on proximity of the delearship just in case I have problems that need personal visits. Sytner have convinced me they can't treat customers correctly so will never get my business again. As they are the BMW, Audi and Lexus dealers for the county, those marques won't get my business. SOme friends, (both retired), have just bought a used ISD. They tried Sytner's and found them to be as unaccomodating as I did. In the end they did travel to Lincoln to order their car, but will be having to have servicing and warranty work done locally. There was an issue with the Battery holding charge, which Lincoln said would need a new Battery. It was arranged for the new one to be supplied and fitted by Sytner as it was a warranty issue. Sytner fobbed them off when they arrived and deprived them of the car for 24hrs in order to charge the Battery. An hour after collecting it broke down. Flat Battery. They love the car incidently.

Picked the S80 up today and handed over the keys to the ISD. It's like coming home after a nightmare journey. So quiet for a big diesel too, (far quieter than my IS was), and the luxurious comfort is to die for. So far on town journeys the onboard instantaneous is saying 32mpg. With stop starting it does drop drastically to mid to high 20s. On an A road motorway run the estimate is 45mpg. I haven't gone into manual change yet to see how it affects the figures. The kickdown certainly packs a punch. The stereo is fantastic especially with the ipod and with the EQ set up.

[Boothby Coggles]

Boothby,Philphy & Scarlett ? Did any of you try another Dealer to resolve your unacceptable issues as this would have saved you heartache & delivered you the car you beleived you purchased.?

If not please say why as there are some great Lexus dealers & you would have saved yourselves a load of cash &,just as important,aggro that no-one deserves!

Tel

My issues were mainly around the body condition of the car as sold to me, which after a long drawn out process were "resolved" in part. I have no issue with that dealer's service dept as I haven't taken the car back there as a matter of principle. Instead I have taken it to Hull and I'm happy with them having had a 30k service & 5th injector. They also fitted a modified selector for 3rd gear & a modified interior "non-vibrating" mirror without any problem or question. Hull is a good bit further for me to take the car but I'll certainly go back there if & when then need arises. That's assuming I've still got the car as I'm continuing to mull over getting something else. How about a Skoda :o ?