Is F In 2 Years From Now.

[Rapidone]

Looks like they are dropping in value at about £1K per month.

If that continues for the next year, they will begin to look like a good buy.

[3 MSF]

Why do those aspiring to something different (IS-F) always seem to be pre-occupied with it needing to be better than an M3? That's really asking something; it would be better to accept it for what it is - a performance version of the Lexus IS, and a great car in its own right.

As for exclusivity, 150 imports a year is getting there, but then BMW has the awesome (faster, more economical and more refined than the M3) ALPINA B3 BITURBO... :winky:

[Parthiban]

The M3 comparison is simply because that is the benchmark, it is arguably the best small sports saloon money can buy.

However you're right about exclusivity, the IS-F is so rare I still haven't seen one on the road which is unbelievable given it's been out a while now - and that would always make it my choice :)

[freightliner]

The M3 comparison is simply because that is the benchmark, it is arguably the best small sports saloon money can buy.

However you're right about exclusivity, the IS-F is so rare I still haven't seen one on the road which is unbelievable given it's been out a while now - and that would always make it my choice :)

I havn't seen one on the road yet either. I was passing Lincoln the other day and as I passed the Lexus dealer I saw an ISF there as I passed by. I turned around and went and had a look at it, it is an fantastic car IMO

[kenfoxy]

For me there is an image problem about the M3 which would push me towards the ISF. Nothing to do with the cars, it's the way I would be perceived by others. I think of the ISF as a gentleman's fast saloon.

[3 MSF]

For me there is an image problem about the M3 which would push me towards the ISF. Nothing to do with the cars, it's the way I would be perceived by others. I think of the ISF as a gentleman's fast saloon.

That's an interesting point you make - IMHO the M3 does have a reputation for having 'ungentlemanly' owners, yet the car itself is an excellent piece of engineering resulting in an involving, although on the slightly firm / 'crashy' ride side of things. That's where my BMW ALPINA B3 BITURBO comment came from...

The B3 is an all-round better car produced in incredibly low numbers (only 12 B3 BITURBO Coupes on the UK ALPINA register to date); the suspension is more refined, being neutral right up to the limit. The car is not speed limited to 155mph, having a quoted top speed of 'over 175mph', returning an incredible 29+mpg (M3s just don't return figures like that), and to be fair, I think the IS-F might enjoy a glass or two of the 98RON vintage...

My IS250 felt underpowered after my BMW 330i, but I so wanted a Lexus. My GS450h was incredibly refined and rapid, yet felt somewhat un-involving (our Mayor drives one...) My 335d M Sport had reasonable economy, but a crashy ride. Answer - ALPINA B3 BITURBO, 'a car for the connoiseur, made by a manufacturer of exclusive automobiles'.

So why am I on the Lexus owners web-site? Firstly, I love the Lexus philosophy. Secondly, I believe everyone should have the opportunity formulate their opinions using the best information available, especially in advance of considering any significant purchase, and I can tell you that as the bespoke ALPINA costs around about the same as the IS-F, and is a better (IMHO) all-round car than the M3 which seems to be the adopted benchmark, then there is an alternative that you should be aware of, and if it's exclusivity you want, to help make an informed choice, then the numbers (12 to date) speak for themselves:

3.0 litre twin turbo lightweight alloy, straight six cylinder engine with Mahle forged titanium pistons

ALPINA suspension and geometry (sporty, yet comfortable / refined)

Advanced ZF transmission with Swich-Tronic rapid gear-shift (F1 style button, not paddle, shift)

Fully re-mapped ECU

Bespoke, re-engineered 4 tail-pipe exhaust system

0-62mph in 4.8 secs

360 bhp

500 Nm torque

Top speed 177 mph (quoted) / 190mph filmed on YouTube by a performance motoring magazine

Combined fuel consumption: 29.1 mpg (quoted, confirmed personally)

BONUS: Annual Road Tax £185.00 (The Alpina is classed as a 'limited manufacturing volume enthusiasts' vehicle', receiving special treatment accordingly...)

It's the best all-round car I have ever driven / owned. I still look to see what Lexus has to offer, and I haven't had the pleasure of driving an IS-F yet, but the tax and fuel consumption figures aren't inspiring as part of the whole ownership package.

I just felt the need to let folks know that there is another choice, and it's not necessarily an M3.

Good luck making your informed choice, and if anyone's had the chance to drive both the ALPINA B3 BITURBO and the IS-F, please share your experience with the rest of us.

Regards - Mark.

[Parthiban]

Those are impressive stats, don't really know a lot about the Alpina cars, is that B3 essentially a reworked 335i?

How much does it cost?

[3 MSF]

Those are impressive stats, don't really know a lot about the Alpina cars, is that B3 essentially a reworked 335i?

How much does it cost?

They're around £47,000 new; I picked up a demonstrator with 4,600 on the clock that would've cost around £53,000. Here's the thing - it was only built last September, and I got it for £38,950; that's a whopping saving of around £14,000!! :winky: Too good to miss in my opinion, as they really are like rocking-horse doo-doo, like the IS-F. I haven't seen another one, but there's a similar website to what we have here for the ALPINA owners, where you load up your details etc. on the web and folks can see your car and its details. Every ALPINA has a unique production number and silver plated plaque in the head-lining just above the interior mirror, showing that unique number. ( http://www.thealpinaregister.com/home )

Your right re. the 335i as a basis, but the engine is assembled from scratch by an ALPINA craftsman, with special Mahle forged titanium pistons to deal with the extra power as a result of the total re-mapping of the ECU (another 60 horses, and a whole lot more torque), and a bespoke 4-silencer exhaust system (what a sound!!) At a consistent 29+ mpg, thats one hell of a result. The wheels are designed to limit any uplift through advanced aerodynamic design, and shod with sticky Michelin Pilot Sports. The suspension is completely different too - much more refined, but remaining incredibly neutral right up to the limit, whereas the M3 literally can be a pain in the *rse!

It might sound a bit daft, but in my opinion, it's the BMW 'Lexus', built by ALPINA in their own bespoke factory in Buchloe, Germany.

If Lexus could improve the IS-F economy, and inject some of that incredible 'emotional quality' afforded by the 'BMW' / ALPINA driving experience, then I'd maybe come back 'home'. As an ex. Toyota Motor Manufacturing Quality Engineer of some 10 years experience , I seriously respect their approach to development, 'building-in' quality and ensuring durability; if they could just get that 'emotional quality driving experience' right, that would make the difference. However, as I've said previously, I've not had the opportunity to drive an IS-F yet, and I daren't, because if I really like it, I don't think I could afford to run one!

Regards - Mark.

[Parthiban]

If I ever started to seriously think about buying an IS-F, would also need to take a look at this as well, does sound very nice indeed. That's quite a bargain on the price too, being so rare didn't think they'd depreciate so fast.

I assume part of the solution for the ride is to get rid of the runflats, but what happens if you get a flat now? Otherwise all sounds good though, didn't realise that specialist cars had lower road tax - another reason why it's a good buy (seeing as the others are £400 and can only see that being raised in future)

[3 MSF]

If I ever started to seriously think about buying an IS-F, would also need to take a look at this as well, does sound very nice indeed. That's quite a bargain on the price too, being so rare didn't think they'd depreciate so fast.

I assume part of the solution for the ride is to get rid of the runflats, but what happens if you get a flat now? Otherwise all sounds good though, didn't realise that specialist cars had lower road tax - another reason why it's a good buy (seeing as the others are £400 and can only see that being raised in future)

It would seem that depreciation is an issue, but I don't think that's the case. I had the same fortune with a GS450h, selling it for more than I paid for it; I think the dealers like to have a highly specced demo, but they're happy to take the hit when they let it go...

Re. run-flats (they are awful; the M series cars don't come with run-flats either, so there's a thing) there isn't any run-flat tyre rated to 190mph, so that was that. In their place, you get some fantastic Michelins on the alloys, and a spray-can based repair kit for your tyre in the boot, where in my opinion, there should always be a full-size spare, but that's just my opinion :)

[Parthiban]

It's annoying not having a spare and no runflats, but understand why they remove them. What are servicing costs like on the Alpina? Especially when compared to the Lexus (realise you may not have had it long enough to have actually serviced it yet but roughly where does it come in at?)

[kenfoxy]

The situation that can't be recovered without breakdown assistance is the blow out of a normal tyre and no spare. Call me old fashioned but give me a proper spare every time. If that means not enough boot space then the car is flawed.

[3 MSF]

Not sure about servicing costs, but likely to be same as BMW, ie. less expensive and definitely less frequent than Lexus (15000 miles interval typical, but dependent on driving style). I don't buy that Lexus '10,000 mile service interval helps us to keep in touch with our Customers' rubbish either; their cars (IMHO) can suffer 15-20,000 miles between services (as Audi / BMW...) easily, relying on the odd Customer being capable of checking oil level / similar, in fact, that would promote good practice (again, IMHO) :)

Have to say that BMW service capability and Customer service behind the 'free coffee' machine isn't a patch on Lexus, who are most definitely the best you'll probably ever come across. The Derby dealership team were awesome, nothing ever too much trouble.

[kenfoxy]

Totally agree. In Liverpool the BMW dealer just didn't care when I enquired about a 325i, the Lexus dealer was superb. However, the BMW dealer in Warrington was first rate, so I think it can be down to where you go like everything else.

[3 MSF]

I hope I don't end up regretting this... :duh:

About to arrange an IS-F test drive for comparison with the ALPINA B3 BITURBO...

By all accounts, it's going to be an 'unkempt' ride that'll spoil it. I could live with it, but I don't think the other half would be of the same opinion

Prime candidate for variable electronic damping I reckon... :winky: Let's see...

- Mark

[Parthiban]

Look forward to your review mate, so far the only downside from most reviews is the ride, which is a shame as otherwise it looks like quite an attractive package.

[3 MSF]

OK. I took the test drive at Sytner Lexus (Leicester). Nice folk, and the vehicle was ready upon my arrival...

The car drove beautifully, predictably, and not uncomfortably at all. It was maybe on the firmer side, but definitely not an issue in my book. I was surprised at how many people made a double take at the car, considering it's quite stealthy in Cadoxton Slate, but just enough muscular to be that bit different. I'm a big fan of its looks. The interior was really quiet, an ideal place to listen for that incredible sound post 3800 rev/min - UNBELIEVABLE! I swear I couldn't stop smiling! I just wanted to go 'through the sound barrier' time after time, but, hey, I was having a test drive with the salesperson next to me. To be fair, he was quite encouraging with respect to me really seeing what the car was capable of, and the sunroof option is a must to get the best of that wonderful soundtrack!

Hold on tight to your license; this baby really goes!

The automatic transmission was really slick, the 8 gears taking care of all the road conditions and my right foot demands... I didn't use the Sport mode, but I did use the paddles which were superb.

I'm going to have one of these, but not just yet. I could put up with the thirsty nature of the beast if all else was fine, but there are a couple of things I'd like Lexus to take care of first:

1. Add a USB interface for music; I don't wish to buy an i-Pod and the required connection. Even better, include the hard drive as per new RX450h.

2. I love 'Radio Bloke' (Radio 5 Live) and I like to hear ir when it gets dark too. I'm used to DAB now, and with the analogue broadcasts being clipped fro 2012, well that's not too far away. DAB please.

3. Sort the brake dust problem out; Lexus are crap at wheels, being happier to continue giving out new ones (refurbished) when you complain. Some see that as great Customer service, however, contrary to the quoted Lexus philosophy, it's containing the symptom, not addressing the root-cause. I don't want 'rough / rusty appearance' wheels, and I certainly don't want molten metal fragments in my paintwork, which can also cause secondary scratches when you're cleaning them if they find their way into your polishing cloth.

4. I want 'the Blue'.

In summary, it's a great car. It should have a longer range through having a larger tank (we know its thirsty; everyone knows its thirsty!) And I like blue. Get Customer Focused' as per the blurb, and you've got yourself a Customer :winky:

- Mark.

ps. My 30+ mpg looks even more incredible now, but I'm going to be working closer to home soon, so thakfully we have mitigation of sorts :)

[Parthiban]

Interesting review there mate, especially as your -ve points aren't really that serious. The IS250C has a DAB option, and assuming that the stereo must essentially be the same, DAB will surely be offered soon enough.

I hadn't heard about this brake dust problem until recently, but yes it's a serious problem that would put me off too - excessive brake dust wouldn't be a problem, but hot brake fragments embedding themselves in the wheels and bodywork and then corroding is a bit more of an issue!

I really want to take one of these out for a test drive, but I know it'll be a big mistake.....