Naughty Hid's

[Rob]

they cant tell if your using hids or not

bo!!ox - cant tell if the bulbs are HID/Xenon?????? pull the other one its plainly obvious if its HID/Xenon or not

i'm not here to argue.....i asked the law and i told the peeps on here what the law said.not every one knows about cars inc traffic police!.their is a lot of Xenon bulbs out their now that will almost match hids(for the picky ones i said almost)my wee bro got bulbs from eBay for his 106 they say they are the same as 7500k my wee sis has a a4 sline soft top with hids and to be honest they are almost as bright and they match the colour too.

hid and Xenon are the same

[Steviewevie]

hid and xenon are the same

I'm not sure about that, I thought that HID was the term given to high-intensity lamps that don't have a filament and are ignited by a very high voltage charge.

You can also get normal filament bulbs that have a small amount of Xenon gas in them, to give a blue tinge, though those typically aren't particularly bright.

I presume that Ormi was saying that just because someone has a slightly bluish headlamp it doesn't necessarily mean they are running HIDs, could just be regular bulbs with Xenon in them.

[FuntimePhil]

ha ha im not giving up.

also note:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.

Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

So technically, they are illegal if the law is followed to the letter. Its just they are choosing not to enforce this as they are probably fully aware there will be a change on the horizon

[Steviewevie]

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.

Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

So technically, they are illegal if the law is followed to the letter. Its just they are choosing not to enforce this as they are probably fully aware there will be a change on the horizon

So *all* HIDs are illegal then, even OEM ones ? You're just helping me make my point. :P :winky:

The law is a mess on this, which is why it's not being enforced IMHO.

[FuntimePhil]

according to that yes, yes they are, which is all i wanted to prove lol

all the rules that people keep saying like self leveling lights and washers, appear to be the european guidlines. We dont seem to have embraced it yet so yes all HIDs are illegal.

If i ever got pulled i'd make sure the copper new this and proceed to point out every new car that drives past with OEM Hid's

[aido]

Hang on guys you need to read the full thing in context:

In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.

The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.

Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.

2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).

3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.

In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.

As you can see the bit in italics quoted is then followed up by saying that as complete HID units including the whole unit are European approved then the UK cannot refuse to allow them.

The difference here is that aftermarket kits are not European approved, and hence are illegal! Quite easy really!

One thing people seem to forget is that you are forbidden to have blue lights up the front of a vehicle unless it's police etc - things like blue sidelights are illegal, and the way people are going with HIDs is going to make the situation worse - ie 8000k and above are just daft really as it's asking for trouble.

It's all going to end up going the same way as tinted windows. There will be an accident one day which someone will say was caused due to glare from aftermarket HIDs either not set correctly or in the wrong type of headlamp not designed to throw the beam pattern correctly and there will all of a sudden be a clampdown.

[aido]

Just thought as well, anyone thinking of using HIDs for foglights - well try them with a 3000k bulb and they are mega - and also work brilliantly from what I hear :)

[Steviewevie]

Hang on guys you need to read the full thing in context:

...

As you can see the bit in italics quoted is then followed up by saying that as complete HID units including the whole unit are European approved then the UK cannot refuse to allow them.

The difference here is that aftermarket kits are not European approved, and hence are illegal! Quite easy really!

I did read it in context, and as I said, the law on this is a mess since technically it appears that *all* HIDs are illegal under UK law. It says that the UK cannot refuse to register vehicles wit EU Type Approval, but it doesn't say that once they're registered these vehicles cannot be declared illegal ! :winky:

At the roadside, a traffic policeman could in theory look to see if you've got headlamp washers, but how does he tell if you've got self-levelling or if your beam pattern is correct ? Is he going to carry around a beam testing set of equipment with him ? Basically they do not seem to have any way of proving this at the roadside.

The only way that I can see this being clamped down on is if they make aftermarket HIDs an MoT failure item.

As I said, it's a mess.

[FuntimePhil]

some already do tho dont they, i know of people that have failed MOT for HID'd, generally only testing stations with modern equiptment. My bloke told me to take em out before he did it.

[ormi]

hid and xenon are the same

I'm not sure about that, I thought that HID was the term given to high-intensity lamps that don't have a filament and are ignited by a very high voltage charge.

You can also get normal filament bulbs that have a small amount of Xenon gas in them, to give a blue tinge, though those typically aren't particularly bright.

I presume that Ormi was saying that just because someone has a slightly bluish headlamp it doesn't necessarily mean they are running HIDs, could just be regular bulbs with Xenon in them.

thanks Stevie thats the point i was tryin to make.as for failing hids on a mot thats just being picky and harsh mot standards dont req you to even check the headlamp washers or the self leveling system. but from jan they will!!!and you can only fail them just now if the headlight aim or pattern is wrong!how do i know this.........i'm a MOT tester.

if anyones car has failed on hids what was the wording on the fail slip?

[Saraj]

the best thing to do get some hid's which dont take the p*** and then you safe

[Steviewevie]

thanks Stevie thats the point i was tryin to make.as for failing hids on a mot thats just being picky and harsh mot standards dont req you to even check the headlamp washers or the self leveling system. but from jan they will!!!and you can only fail them just now if the headlight aim or pattern is wrong!how do i know this.........i'm a MOT tester.

if anyones car has failed on hids what was the wording on the fail slip?

How likely is it that aftermarket HIDs will fail an MoT test for their beam pattern, in your opinion ? Interested to know what you think as an MoT tester.

[aido]

I always thought that Halogen based projectors work much better and give a much better beam than the reflector type as found in the IS when used with an aftermarket HID kit? There was no real cutoff on my IS when I had them, the light just scattered everywhere!

[ormi]

thanks Stevie thats the point i was tryin to make.as for failing hids on a mot thats just being picky and harsh mot standards dont req you to even check the headlamp washers or the self leveling system. but from jan they will!!!and you can only fail them just now if the headlight aim or pattern is wrong!how do i know this.........i'm a MOT tester.

if anyones car has failed on hids what was the wording on the fail slip?

How likely is it that aftermarket HIDs will fail an MoT test for their beam pattern, in your opinion ? Interested to know what you think as an MoT tester.

to be honest if you get a by the book 100% by the book tester he by rights could fail it as the beam pattern is scattered about a bit.when i done mine i got the master tec and mot tester to check mine using the alighner, after i buggered about adjusting the lights he said they were adjusted fine.(although not 100%)but wouldnt fail a mot!

my point if you came into my garage for a mot and your hids were well out i would adjust them(free)as it only takes mins!!!!their for no point in a fail! and to be honest im not that harsh or picky.

[gib]

''One thing people seem to forget is that you are forbidden to have blue lights up the front of a vehicle unless it's police etc - things like blue sidelights are illegal, and the way people are going with HIDs is going to make the situation worse - ie 8000k and above are just daft really as it's asking for trouble.''

No it isn't.

The general rule is - no RED lights shown to the front, no WHITE lights shown to the rear (other than rear reg. plate lights, reversing light etc). The legislation makes no mention of colour other than that.

What the legislation does say is that it is not permitted to have any rotating blue light similar to that used by the emergency services, or intended to imitate the emergency services.

ANYONE who tells you different doesn't know their Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations well enough .............

Remember that a police officer doesnt have to have a reason to stop you in terms of the condition of your vehicle. The very fact your vehicle is on a road allows him/her to stop you to check your documents.

[aido]

No it isn't.

The general rule is - no RED lights shown to the front, no WHITE lights shown to the rear (other than rear reg. plate lights, reversing light etc). The legislation makes no mention of colour other than that.

What the legislation does say is that it is not permitted to have any rotating blue light similar to that used by the emergency services, or intended to imitate the emergency services.

ANYONE who tells you different doesn't know their Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations well enough .............

Remember that a police officer doesnt have to have a reason to stop you in terms of the condition of your vehicle. The very fact your vehicle is on a road allows him/her to stop you to check your documents.

Why did they make such a fuss about not having the blue sidelights - does that mean they are allowed to be used then?

[ormi]

No it isn't.

The general rule is - no RED lights shown to the front, no WHITE lights shown to the rear (other than rear reg. plate lights, reversing light etc). The legislation makes no mention of colour other than that.

What the legislation does say is that it is not permitted to have any rotating blue light similar to that used by the emergency services, or intended to imitate the emergency services.

ANYONE who tells you different doesn't know their Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations well enough .............

Remember that a police officer doesnt have to have a reason to stop you in terms of the condition of your vehicle. The very fact your vehicle is on a road allows him/her to stop you to check your documents.

Why did they make such a fuss about not having the blue sidelights - does that mean they are allowed to be used then?

mot rule............ both front side lights must be the same colour(doesn't state what colour though)

but the police will tug you defo for blue side lights might even fine you.even though they dont flash!!heres one for you though.......how come lorries get away with blue side lights?????and many of them??

[aido]

mot rule............ both front side lights must be the same colour(doesn't state what colour though)

but the police will tug you defo for blue side lights might even fine you.even though they dont flash!!heres one for you though.......how come lorries get away with blue side lights?????and many of them??

Thought that was the case mate as I've read in the past about people being fined for it - hence illegal otherwise there wouldn't be a fine?!

Sounds like they could do with rewriting the rulebook to clearly specify what is allowed and what isn't a little bit clearer!

As for lorries though - I see loads nowadays lit up like Christmas trees except it's all year round!

[ormi]

''One thing people seem to forget is that you are forbidden to have blue lights up the front of a vehicle unless it's police etc - things like blue sidelights are illegal, and the way people are going with HIDs is going to make the situation worse - ie 8000k and above are just daft really as it's asking for trouble.''

No it isn't.

The general rule is - no RED lights shown to the front, no WHITE lights shown to the rear (other than rear reg. plate lights, reversing light etc). The legislation makes no mention of colour other than that.

What the legislation does say is that it is not permitted to have any rotating blue light similar to that used by the emergency services, or intended to imitate the emergency services.

ANYONE who tells you different doesn't know their Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations well enough .............

Remember that a police officer doesnt have to have a reason to stop you in terms of the condition of your vehicle. The very fact your vehicle is on a road allows him/her to stop you to check your documents.

i have 10ks fitted to mine my miss's is in traffic they have a evo x on loan my lights are not much bluer than the evo and they are standard fit hids......and she uses the car sometimes when i need to work on hers and no one from her work has even commented on my lights.

[gib]

No it isn't.

The general rule is - no RED lights shown to the front, no WHITE lights shown to the rear (other than rear reg. plate lights, reversing light etc). The legislation makes no mention of colour other than that.

What the legislation does say is that it is not permitted to have any rotating blue light similar to that used by the emergency services, or intended to imitate the emergency services.

ANYONE who tells you different doesn't know their Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations well enough .............

Remember that a police officer doesnt have to have a reason to stop you in terms of the condition of your vehicle. The very fact your vehicle is on a road allows him/her to stop you to check your documents.

Why did they make such a fuss about not having the blue sidelights - does that mean they are allowed to be used then?

Aido,

This 'not allowed blue sidelights' has become such an urban myth and legend that even some police officers believe it. Its just a lack of knowledge as opposed to any maliciousness.

When you think about it, Xenon lights have a blue effect. But these arent illegal.

You will notice that some HGV drivers will have small 'xmas' trees on their dashboard. This is perfectly legal, (as long as it doesnt affect his vision ahead), nor have any red bulbs in it! Remember - no RED to the front, no WHITE to the rear. You get the idea..........

In terms of the HID discussion, watch that ANY light you install does not dazzle oncoming drivers. This could constitute 'dangerous driving', due to the condition of the vehicle. It is not the colour that is the problem, unless of course it doesnt actually give you any light ahead!

[aido]

At a guess then the red / white thing is purely so you don't think that a car is coming towards you then?

As for the genuine xenons giving the blue tinge I thought that was just a byproduct of the projector design (the cutoff)?

[gib]

There is no Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty for have 'blue sidelights', I can assure you.

There are many general offences though, which the constable at the time may have considered the offence to come under. I am sure there may be a 'misuse of lights' offence, but I am not 100%.

[ormi]

mot rule............ both front side lights must be the same colour(doesn't state what colour though)

but the police will tug you defo for blue side lights might even fine you.even though they dont flash!!heres one for you though.......how come lorries get away with blue side lights?????and many of them??

Thought that was the case mate as I've read in the past about people being fined for it - hence illegal otherwise there wouldn't be a fine?!

Sounds like they could do with rewriting the rulebook to clearly specify what is allowed and what isn't a little bit clearer!

As for lorries though - I see loads nowadays lit up like Christmas trees except it's all year round!

their is few things like this

ie mot rule 1.6mm over 3/4 of the tread(can be bald on the inner or outer edge)

traffic rule 1.6mm over 3/4 of the tread(must have visable tread on the lowest point)

the bad thing about that rule is you could leave the mot station with a fresh mot two mins down the road you collect 3 points and a £60 fine!!

its all fun and games someone needs to sit down and sort it all out!!!

[aido]

Fair play mate - just been having a read around and wonder if they're doing people on this bit:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_3.htm

Restrictions on fitting blue warning beacons, special warning lamps and similar devices

16. No vehicle, other than an emergency vehicle, shall be fitted with-

(a) a blue warning beacon or special warning lamp, or

(B) a device which resembles a blue warning beacon or a special warning lamp, whether the same is in working order or not.

Wonder if that's what they're fining people on - that they resemble a blue warning beacon? Have to admit I'd assume it was a copper if I saw a blue light coming at me

[aido]

its all fun and games someone needs to sit down and sort it all out!!!

They've probably left it so that it funds someones Christmas Party :D

Just found the absolute best answer on the net:

http://www.vectra-c.com/forum/showthread.p...8215&page=3

I read elsewhere that displaying blue lights at the front of a vehicle was a way of informing other motorists that you're homosexual.

:D

And from the last page of that thread:

I'll give you a real life example of this... I warned a chap about blue sidelights and told him to change them... saw him a month later and he hadn't so he accepted a £30 fixed penalty... he then, in his wisdom, decided he was right and I was wrong so disputed the ticket and it went to court....

net result: £300 including fines and court costs!

Surely if there wasn't a law somewhere it would have been chucked out of court - unless it is that very thing I posted just above maybe that they did do them for? I give up, my head is proper spinning now