What's Happening To Lexus?

[MartyCee]

What is going on? We're all used to the hype being greater than the reality, but Lexus claim to have the very best automotive experience out there - not in my experience!

After my first year of ownership of an RX400h I have to say I am seriously questioning the wisdom of my choice.

The hand over was a joke, literally.

Due to the deal struck the dealer insisted on specifying the handover date to suit their end of month figures - fair enough.

But come the day the sales people I dealt with were away for various reasons & the whole process was handled by a new team member who got most of the "owner training" wrong - days pouring over the handbook proved this & the list of errors covers almost 2 sides of an A4 sheet.

Despite assurances (because the weather reports were dire) the entire handover took place in the pouring rain & was rushed as a consequence.

There was more, the p/ex was driven around & spotted by friends because the dealership used my personal plates rather than their own trade plates - one called me & said "you were going a bit this morning weren't you?" Apparently he was over taken my what he thought was me (he didn't know about my purchase) at what (on here) can only be described as a considerable rate of knots.

A few months in I had the misfortune to have a broken windscreen while in Europe. It was the day I due to return so I brought it back to the UK for a repair - after hours on the phone (no repairer could locate a screen), it transpired there were only 2 in whole of the UK & one had just been sold - luckily I got the last one or I would have had a lengthy delay (the screen was cracked from to to bottom).

Now I come to first service time.

The local dealer has been taken over in the interim, so the price has lept from the £180 quoted at the time of purchase to £250. Inflation? I think not - within 40 minutes of my home I have been quoted (approx) £180, £215, £250 & £280 - all for exactly the same service &, presumably (Lexus Standards Police do check apparently!) quality of workmanship.

Now I did some checking (before a flame war starts!) between the cheapest & the most expensive the business rates are within 5%, can't say about how much they pay, but It can't much different because the cost of living & house prices are within 8% (max) - so why a service cost charge disaparity of over 33% And why a local price hike of around 40%?

To make it worse, 5 out of the first 6 dealers I called couldn't simply give me a quote over the phone, they wanted to call me back.

When they called they wanted to collect all my data (for their customer mailing lists no doubt) first & then quote.

I copied my concerns to Lexus & have received a patronising call stating that dealers can charge what they like - using local conditions as justification. So no help there, "Lexus experience" really means "dealership experience" so they are no different to the rest of the crowd in the market place.

By comparision BMW dealers & Mercedes dealers in the same areas vary by 10% & some offer customers who buy from them a discount on all servicing for the duration of the ownership.

In Autocar a couple of weeks back (their running an IS500 - you know that new M3 beater?) & their experience was back to the bad old Leyland days.

They couldn't get the car booked in, some dealers hadn't heard of the model & when they did get the work done the car was returned with body wax on the driver's seat.

When they complained the car was taken back, cleaned & the leather stretched & wrinkled in the process of removing the marks - all in the magazine photos & all.

So before I decide to forget my intent to buy my partner an is220d .......... am I right or wrong? Are Lexus falling down & is it time to move on to another marque before I get my fingers burnt again?

[Ullevi]

In Autocar a couple of weeks back (their running an IS500 - you know that new M3 beater?) & their experience was back to the bad old Leyland days.

They couldn't get the car booked in, some dealers hadn't heard of the model ...

Perhaps it's because it's called an IS-F

[Parthiban]

I'm sorry to hear of your experience, it does seem that the quality is starting to vary quite a bit between dealerships........

The dealership I use has always been and still is fantastic - they bend over backwards to accommodate what I need, so for me buying another Lexus would not be influenced by the dealership experience.

However, it does seem that some dealers have dropped the torch following reports on here, so you really do need to find the one nearest to you that's still "good" and stick with them.

Although regarding the 220d, possibly not the best car to pick if you don't like spending time with the dealers..........have a look at the 250 auto before making a decision :)

[MartyCee]

I'm sorry to hear of your experience, it does seem that the quality is starting to vary quite a bit between dealerships........

The dealership I use has always been and still is fantastic - they bend over backwards to accommodate what I need, so for me buying another Lexus would not be influenced by the dealership experience.

However, it does seem that some dealers have dropped the torch following reports on here, so you really do need to find the one nearest to you that's still "good" and stick with them.

Although regarding the 220d, possibly not the best car to pick if you don't like spending time with the dealers..........have a look at the 250 auto before making a decision :)

I agree with your assesment regarding the dealers, there's good & bad. I've suggested to Lexus that they require their main dealers to publish their service charges for vehicles in warranty on the Lexus website - after all "in warranty" servicing is a must is the warranty id to be preserved & it's in Leus' interest to promote fairness in this period - Mini got round it with the service pack, which I know from experience works very well.

However the 250 auto isn't viable, my partner would use it & she does around 20K per year, making the dreaded balck fuel or a Hybrid more suitable in these times - we'll be back at £.10+ per litre next year I expect, so every bit has to count from here on.

[MartyCee]

In Autocar a couple of weeks back (their running an IS500 - you know that new M3 beater?) & their experience was back to the bad old Leyland days.

They couldn't get the car booked in, some dealers hadn't heard of the model ...

Perhaps it's because it's called an IS-F

Well for me to forget that is acceptable - but for a Lexus main dealer to not now of it's existance - how can anyone have faith in dealerships that don't know their products? We're talking the highly rated Lexus here - not Kia!

[tonker]

Marty read this and wonder why i'm now driving a Mercedes!

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=51698

Just before Christmas the clutch broke going up a hill in the snow. I rolled back and ended up powerless in a snowdrift, in the middle of mini roundabout! The Mercedes recovery system didn't recognise my car as having a warranty so the time it took to be told i was going to be recovered went on and on. I found the dealers card in the glove compartment and to say the got on the job is an understatement. Recovery, replacement brand new Ford Galaxy(which wasn't bad) and lots of follow up calls. Even the Mercedes specialist popped round a month later to see if things were now OK.

Lexus seemed in my short experience to have lost that fighting spirit when it came to customer service and personal decency. Never again.

[Boothby Coggles]

Marty read this and wonder why i'm now driving a Mercedes!

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=51698

Just before Christmas the clutch broke going up a hill in the snow. I rolled back and ended up powerless in a snowdrift, in the middle of mini roundabout! The Mercedes recovery system didn't recognise my car as having a warranty so the time it took to be told i was going to be recovered went on and on. I found the dealers card in the glove compartment and to say the got on the job is an understatement. Recovery, replacement brand new Ford Galaxy(which wasn't bad) and lots of follow up calls. Even the Mercedes specialist popped round a month later to see if things were now OK.

Lexus seemed in my short experience to have lost that fighting spirit when it came to customer service and personal decency. Never again.

Tonka,

Just read the thread originated by your earlier post, in full. I'm a bit surprised that I had missed most of it.

I have no faith in Lincoln, and I used to work for them as a part-time driver. Their inept sales dept shafted me in relation to the 220 I bought in Dec. '07. I won't go there now for so much as a light bulb. I have been using Hull instead, even tho' it's the thick end of 40 miles away, & Lincoln is less than a mile.

Interestingly the local Mercedes dealer, (where I was also a driver), which is also part of the Lister's group take a whole different attitude to customers. Not only that, there are a few of the Merc staff who view the Lexus crew with contempt, and not just because of brand rivalry.

[MartyCee]

Marty read this and wonder why i'm now driving a Mercedes!

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=51698

Just before Christmas the clutch broke going up a hill in the snow. I rolled back and ended up powerless in a snowdrift, in the middle of mini roundabout! The Mercedes recovery system didn't recognise my car as having a warranty so the time it took to be told i was going to be recovered went on and on. I found the dealers card in the glove compartment and to say the got on the job is an understatement. Recovery, replacement brand new Ford Galaxy(which wasn't bad) and lots of follow up calls. Even the Mercedes specialist popped round a month later to see if things were now OK.

Lexus seemed in my short experience to have lost that fighting spirit when it came to customer service and personal decency. Never again.

Tonka,

Just read the thread originated by your earlier post, in full. I'm a bit surprised that I had missed most of it.

I have no faith in Lincoln, and I used to work for them as a part-time driver. Their inept sales dept shafted me in relation to the 220 I bought in Dec. '07. I won't go there now for so much as a light bulb. I have been using Hull instead, even tho' it's the thick end of 40 miles away, & Lincoln is less than a mile.

Interestingly the local Mercedes dealer, (where I was also a driver), which is also part of the Lister's group take a whole different attitude to customers. Not only that, there are a few of the Merc staff who view the Lexus crew with contempt, and not just because of brand rivalry.

well thanks Tonker & Bothby,

As I surmised, "we are not alone"!!!!

I've sent a very clear fax about all my experiences to Belinda Poole, who is Director of Lexus GB Ltd - answering to Toyota (so I am promised). I'll have to wait for her comments over the next few days to see what olive branches are offered.

Sadly, since the above, I noticed a chip in the side of the car that wasn't before the service, it hasn't moved since it came back & also that the service indicator hadn't reset either.

I guess the former explains why they didn't valet the car (as promised) & the latter is self fixable after a look in the handbook.

But it does rub salt in the wound!

However, if anyone wants ths, after the current conversations with Belinda Poole are over I'll publich the response here so everyone can judge for themselves just how serious Lexus are about being seen a top line motoring brand - rather than just a posh name for Toyota.

For the list price of my RX400h I could have bought my partner & I a Prius each &, going by local comments, had better service - now that's ironic, sad &, frankly dispicable.

Also, my intent is to copy all my notes & correspondence to the Editor at Autocar - more non-Lexus folk need to know the risks they run by believing the hype! :-(

The really, really sad part is that aprt from some interactive roll bars to quell the roll I am pleased with the car - I regularly see 33mpg on a run & my worst is 28 around twon - not bad for a 3.3 litre 2 tonne machine. So what's right is right, sadly when you need suppport it all goes like the handling - a bit wobbly!

[fairygodmother]

Marty read this and wonder why i'm now driving a Mercedes!

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=51698

Just before Christmas the clutch broke going up a hill in the snow. I rolled back and ended up powerless in a snowdrift, in the middle of mini roundabout! The Mercedes recovery system didn't recognise my car as having a warranty so the time it took to be told i was going to be recovered went on and on. I found the dealers card in the glove compartment and to say the got on the job is an understatement. Recovery, replacement brand new Ford Galaxy(which wasn't bad) and lots of follow up calls. Even the Mercedes specialist popped round a month later to see if things were now OK.

Lexus seemed in my short experience to have lost that fighting spirit when it came to customer service and personal decency. Never again.

Tonka,

Just read the thread originated by your earlier post, in full. I'm a bit surprised that I had missed most of it.

I have no faith in Lincoln, and I used to work for them as a part-time driver. Their inept sales dept shafted me in relation to the 220 I bought in Dec. '07. I won't go there now for so much as a light bulb. I have been using Hull instead, even tho' it's the thick end of 40 miles away, & Lincoln is less than a mile.

Interestingly the local Mercedes dealer, (where I was also a driver), which is also part of the Lister's group take a whole different attitude to customers. Not only that, there are a few of the Merc staff who view the Lexus crew with contempt, and not just because of brand rivalry.

well thanks Tonker & Bothby,

As I surmised, "we are not alone"!!!!

I've sent a very clear fax about all my experiences to Belinda Poole, who is Director of Lexus GB Ltd - answering to Toyota (so I am promised). I'll have to wait for her comments over the next few days to see what olive branches are offered.

Sadly, since the above, I noticed a chip in the side of the car that wasn't before the service, it hasn't moved since it came back & also that the service indicator hadn't reset either.

I guess the former explains why they didn't valet the car (as promised) & the latter is self fixable after a look in the handbook.

But it does rub salt in the wound!

However, if anyone wants ths, after the current conversations with Belinda Poole are over I'll publich the response here so everyone can judge for themselves just how serious Lexus are about being seen a top line motoring brand - rather than just a posh name for Toyota.

For the list price of my RX400h I could have bought my partner & I a Prius each &, going by local comments, had better service - now that's ironic, sad &, frankly dispicable.

Also, my intent is to copy all my notes & correspondence to the Editor at Autocar - more non-Lexus folk need to know the risks they run by believing the hype! :-(

The really, really sad part is that aprt from some interactive roll bars to quell the roll I am pleased with the car - I regularly see 33mpg on a run & my worst is 28 around twon - not bad for a 3.3 litre 2 tonne machine. So what's right is right, sadly when you need suppport it all goes like the handling - a bit wobbly!

[jaroph]

By comparision BMW dealers & Mercedes dealers in the same areas vary by 10% & some offer customers who buy from them a discount on all servicing for the duration of the ownership.

Sorry to hear about your experience. I have been dealing with Guildford since 2001 and they have always been nothing short of excellent for both sales and service. I have bought five cars from them and have been happy every time. Their pricing on 2nd hand cars is a bit over the top (As you would expect for rip off Surrey) so my last purchase was from Lexus Teesside, where the service was shoddy at best. However Guildford sorted out all issues under warranty and were, again, excellent. They also seem to have now accepted that their pricing leaves much to be desired and the prices seem to be dropping.

On the above point, I also run a Mercedes and my experience of their service dept is that it's all smoke and mirrors in a very flashy building with, admitedly, a very nice coffee machine. Their pricing and charging plan is ridiculous. For example, I took my car into Lexus for a grinding noise inspection, they had the car for half day, provided an RX400h as a courtesy car and found nothing following their 'test drive'. I also took my Mercdes in for a check on a loss of power incident I suffered and they too had the car for half a day, provided no courtesy car and found no faults. Both Lexus and Mercedes advised me to go back if the issue reocurred.

Total charges at Lexus Zero, total charges at Mercedes £120.

Furthermore, I wanted to service my Mercedes (B Service) and was quoted £750 at Guildford after 10% discount for being loyal !

Decided to drive the car to Mercedes Weston-Super Mare, where I paid £280.

Work that one out!

[Parthiban]

By comparision BMW dealers & Mercedes dealers in the same areas vary by 10% & some offer customers who buy from them a discount on all servicing for the duration of the ownership.

I'd recommend going Gold on here, I get 10% off everything at my dealer with my Gold card

[fairygodmother]

I am not really sure what you want Lexus to do for you?

The dealer network are owned by independent dealer groups and not Lexus. Labour rates will vary depending on location and overheads. With regards to service quotes a dealer asking for your details and checking the price must be good business practice with all the different services and models?. Would you rather them get it wrong and have issues when you go to pay?. My advice is get quotes and you decide where you want to go for your servicing.

From this thread you seem happy with your car, its not broken down or had faults but you are not happy with the dealers you have dealt with. So you should be speaking with the relevant dealer staff to get you problems resolved.

What is the Lexus ownership experience you talk about???? What do you expect from a car maker???? I would have said its a well made car that you enjoy with competitive running costs, a good quality dealer network and if something goes wrong it is dealt with professionally and quickly.

I had an IS220d recently with 93000 miles on and the head gasket went. The dealer spoke to Lexus who were very suprised by this and although it was out of warranty by 33000 miles and cost over £2000 they fixed it and loaned me a 250 for a week free of charge. Now that is great customer service from Lexus and the reason why i bought another one.

[TERMINATOR]

I am sorry to hear of your bad experience.

I have bought 2 gs300's and an is from lexus edinburgh and have to say my experiences from this dealership has been second to none.

I have recently bought a used approved rx and travelled over 300 miles, to pick the car up and the condition of the car was not what i have experienced from

a reputable dealer.The dealer has agreed to pick my car up, fix it and return it including a courtesy car.

That is what lexus are about.

[MartyCee]

I am not really sure what you want Lexus to do for you?

The dealer network are owned by independent dealer groups and not Lexus. Labour rates will vary depending on location and overheads. With regards to service quotes a dealer asking for your details and checking the price must be good business practice with all the different services and models?. Would you rather them get it wrong and have issues when you go to pay?. My advice is get quotes and you decide where you want to go for your servicing.

From this thread you seem happy with your car, its not broken down or had faults but you are not happy with the dealers you have dealt with. So you should be speaking with the relevant dealer staff to get you problems resolved.

What is the Lexus ownership experience you talk about???? What do you expect from a car maker???? I would have said its a well made car that you enjoy with competitive running costs, a good quality dealer network and if something goes wrong it is dealt with professionally and quickly.

I had an IS220d recently with 93000 miles on and the head gasket went. The dealer spoke to Lexus who were very suprised by this and although it was out of warranty by 33000 miles and cost over £2000 they fixed it and loaned me a 250 for a week free of charge. Now that is great customer service from Lexus and the reason why i bought another one.

I think you've missed some of the detail....

Lexus claim to compell their dealers to prove a set level of standards & support & whilst I accept they cannot control what individual business acting on their behlaf charge, it s very much in their interest to ensure that some common sense comes into play when the bills are produced.

Some of the dealers are, without doubt (I have checked things like local taxes etc on a comparitive basis) charging sky rocket prices vs others & that's to our cost & Lexus's discredit.

Being totally fair, Lexus are far from unique in this situation - however, a very large part of the promotional angle is centred on the service levels a Lexus owner can expect & to effectively say that this can come at any price the dealer wants to charge is a cop out because the price should come as part of that mantra.

That others on this site have decalred a fall in standards, the press have also expressed (not just the article I referred to either) concerns that dealer standards are slipping only adds to the discomfort when the bill is handed over.

I seem to recall that a valet was part of every service - somewhere along the line I'm sure I heard/read that - as part of the Lexus deal - mine has been into different dealers on 3 occassions & not been valeted once- maybe I keep it too clean?

I would be the first to agree that not all the dealers are cast in the same mould - but I think you'll agree that a price hike of 40% when the dealer changes hands (over night as far as I can tell) is seriously questionable.

Hence my suggestion that Lexus, in line with their desire to provide customers with the best service possible, require all their main dealers to subit a monthly tarrif to Lexus as to their service charges for the routine services (at least for the warranty period where Lexus can claim to have a vested interest).

Any customer or even dealer can check the going rate at any delear they wish - & then book the service.

There is the risk, of course, that other dealers will see what the competition "get away with" & bring their charges into line. But I doubt it will happen, competition is how business survives & if that did happen Lexus sales would fall as other marques slot their costs beneth Lexus dealers to attract business as a whole.

In the end we all make choices, manufacturuers, delears, customers alike - the problem right now is that there is no control over the costs of keeping the promises Lexus makes & requires their delears to fulfill on their behalf. That makes the promise depreciate in value, becuase anyone can promise anything if the price to cover that is high enough. The question then becomes, who will/can afford to pay for that promise?

I'm not saying Lexus must, that would be unreasonable, but I do think Lexus have a moral obligation to see fair play on behalf of their customers as part of ensuring that promise is kept & publishing the dealer charges in one place is the least they could do to help achieve that.

[Parthiban]

I have to ask one question here and that is why are you picking on Lexus with this, and assuming that other brands like Mercedes and BMW are not also doing the same thing?

I remember a survey a short while ago which showed the vast disparity in servicing charges and hourly rates between all makes at dealerships across the country, with a certain London BMW dealer coming with the highest (and frankly ridiculous) in the country.

Mercedes dealers are centrally owned, so obviously they have a lot more control, but even then I'm not sure this problem doesn't exist there either.

At the end of the day, while Lexus do have a moral obligation to ensure quality is maintained (and on this I do agree with you) the whole point of a franchise is that the dealer chooses the prices themselves. It even works with McDonalds (you'll see some stores offering promotional prices that aren't available at other stores)

This is also the reason why some dealers may offer a greater discount when buying a car than others - you wouldn't be complaining to Lexus GB that they gave you a bigger discount would you?

This is a simple case of the system isn't perfect, but as intelligent individuals, if the price matters, check prices with a few different dealers and get your preferred dealer to match the price. In most cases they will, they'd rather have your business than lose it - especially in this market :)

[Boothby Coggles]

Mercedes dealers are centrally owned, so obviously they have a lot more control, but even then I'm not sure this problem doesn't exist there either.

Have to disagree with that - Mercedes at Lincoln, Boston & Grimsby are owned by Listers Group, who also own

Toyota & Lexus in Lincoln.

[Parthiban]

Mercedes dealers are centrally owned, so obviously they have a lot more control, but even then I'm not sure this problem doesn't exist there either.

Have to disagree with that - Mercedes at Lincoln, Boston & Grimsby are owned by Listers Group, who also own

Toyota & Lexus in Lincoln.

Sorry, that should have said "most" mercedes dealers are centrally owned

[MartyCee]

Mercedes dealers are centrally owned, so obviously they have a lot more control, but even then I'm not sure this problem doesn't exist there either.

Have to disagree with that - Mercedes at Lincoln, Boston & Grimsby are owned by Listers Group, who also own

Toyota & Lexus in Lincoln.

Sorry, that should have said "most" mercedes dealers are centrally owned

In this owners club Lexus are the centre of attention. I am sure I would be quickly critised for "going off Piste" if I had this debate about Merc's et al on here!

However, as a direct comparision, & a valid one at that, I also have a Mini. (aka BMW! LOL)

That marque also has a defined customer quality promise & the differences for servicing across the same area as I chacked for my Lexus service came back as being within 15% - cheapest to most expensive.

The figures are for non-Mini-TLC packages service charges.

So it is very fair to say that as far as Lexus are concerned their dealers can see it as a premium brand (which is probabaly is) & therefore beleive the owners have deeper pockets than a cheaper marque & are "ripe for picking" as far as profits go.

In the end, we are all entitled to our own opinion as to what justifies good service & good value.

As an Director in a company associated (in broadscape) with motor industry & a consultant to others providing services directly into that industry I can state quite clearly that there is little justification for the wide disparity of charges being levied, especially outside the major urban conurbations, & no fathomable reason for a price increase of 40% for a service in a period of less than a year.

To be clear. I am not pointing finger of blame at Lexus. They have as much to lose as the owners of their cars in this in the long run.

I haven't even suggested that Lexus impose a tarrif on their dealers.

I think they have a moral obligation (as they insist on very strict criteria for servicing, that pretty much compells ownrs to use the main agents to preserve the warranty) to at least dirty their hands a little & highlight which dealers are charging what so the owners can choose to suit their location, budget & time availability.

I could go further & say that like Mini they could (as could every manufacturer) provide an equivilant to the TLC package - which gives three years servicing for £150, they could (& should like many others) offer better service intervals, oils last alot longer than 10,000 miles these days, they could also offer the owners older cars a fair service plan (as Honda now do) to encourage them to go to the main dealers & thus "keep the ball rolling" in terms of business - after all a £20 profit 50 times a week is better than a £50 profit 10 tmes a week. Quite apart from the number of vehicle viewings that would take place......

But I digress, bottom line, we all know we can be easily ripped off (this is rip Britain even in a recession!) & we all know that we can get round it by making telephone calls (giving all our contact details at each dealer to boost the mailing list!) & spend chunks of our time in the process.

But if, as is the declared position, Lexus is a quality brand seeking to give their customers the very best, surely they can cut through all that & provide all customers with a dealer list showing what the costs of servicing will be in any given locale?

My experience & opinions stand, currently Lexus isn't the best in this regard, Mini (for one) do it better & there is enough publicity to suggest that Lexus are in great danger of trading on hype & being found out thanks to the profit grabbing antics of a few dealerships that should be exposed - my suggestion does that without any great drama & provides "a service to owners" at the same time.

Loyalty is wonderful, I respect anyone who has it for anything - but just make sure you're seeing the wood for the trees, for your own sake.

Rant over! You can all come out now!!! :-)

[Gord]

''as they insist on very strict criteria for servicing, that pretty much compells ownrs to use the main agents to preserve the warranty''

That bits not right mate, you can take your new car to any VAT Reg garage, and use genuine Toyota/lexus parts and your warranty will be ok :D

Lexus can do nothing about this, as its now the law, and was made to stop what you have said from happening :D

[Rabster]

as this is still my 1st lexus i cant comment on everything but

all my service work has been done without any hassle and booked in and done normally within a week of me calling the only thing is some times i ahve been given a toyota car but thats not a majour issue a loan car is a loan car as long as it gets me from a - b.

When i had an accident lexus took over all controll of my claim for me i didnt have to do anything they spoke to insurance and made it clear the car was being repaired there etc (i didnt expect them to dod that so was pleasntly supprised after all i was still in a bit of shock motorway pile ups do that to you lol)

Shortly after the car had been repaired it developed knocking noises from suspension which i was advised by a garage was down to an item not being repaired at the accident when i returned to lexus they said it was general ware and tear HOWEVER they were more than happy to meet me half way on the cost to have the item fixed so i was really happy with that

i get calls every now and then asking how my car is going if there are any problems etc and of course a call when they would like some money due to it needing a service.

although there pricing seems to be quite high on some items there is always room to haggle and if your gold you have more chance of a better that 10% sometimes.

it always pays to treat people how you wish to be treated.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Firstly - your problems appeared to start with the "new saleguy" and lack of training - which is the dealership issue - not Lexus directly (though of course he represents Lexus...)

Guys - I have found very little difference between any of the Sytner (owned by Penske USA, and not Frank Sytner) garages - as an example...

Audi in Nottingham appeared to be the best overall - but I have never experienced their after sales

BMW and Lexus in Leicester are a total joke (actually on a par with the Leicester Audi when they were by Fox, and are now Sytner too)

The worst thing Lexus did was "split" Lexus from Toyota. They tried to make it into a standalone marque and are now beginning to pay the price - even though it's been a few years.

The dealership Quality has dropped to what is deemed acceptable by the "franchise management" that runs it and, for example the Fiat dealership that may also run within franchise, and therefore not quite what Lexus aimed for....

The other side of this is that one or 2 recent Lexus models have been poorly designed - the diesel being one - with a list of recalls and issues as long as your arm. As each car owner discovers a problem, they go to the dealer where they are let down by the "human" attitude, fixes after fixes, tweak after tweak, etc etc, only to discover even more issue coming out of the woodwork...

The only thing currently, in my view, that Lexus dealers are very good at is the no quibble approach with warranty work. No questions - replace it...which is great. But the more "diesel" type issues they get, the more they will start to target dealers to reduce the number of warranty claims, and there won't be much left between BMW, Audi, MB or Lexus...that's the fear!!

So far my Beemer hasn't had to go back for anything at all - it's run perfectly, but I know it'll be hassle if I do...the only advantage is that I have a shed load of Indies I can go to too!!!

Having said that - for all you Leicestershire based Lexus owners - Sturgess Nissan (Who are Excellent) also service all Toyota' to manufacturer spec - they might even do your Lex...

[dgman]

Firstly - your problems appeared to start with the "new saleguy" and lack of training - which is the dealership issue - not Lexus directly (though of course he represents Lexus...)

Guys - I have found very little difference between any of the Sytner (owned by Penske USA, and not Frank Sytner) garages - as an example...

Audi in Nottingham appeared to be the best overall - but I have never experienced their after sales

BMW and Lexus in Leicester are a total joke (actually on a par with the Leicester Audi when they were by Fox, and are now Sytner too)

The worst thing Lexus did was "split" Lexus from Toyota. They tried to make it into a standalone marque and are now beginning to pay the price - even though it's been a few years.

The dealership Quality has dropped to what is deemed acceptable by the "franchise management" that runs it and, for example the Fiat dealership that may also run within franchise, and therefore not quite what Lexus aimed for....

The other side of this is that one or 2 recent Lexus models have been poorly designed - the diesel being one - with a list of recalls and issues as long as your arm. As each car owner discovers a problem, they go to the dealer where they are let down by the "human" attitude, fixes after fixes, tweak after tweak, etc etc, only to discover even more issue coming out of the woodwork...

The only thing currently, in my view, that Lexus dealers are very good at is the no quibble approach with warranty work. No questions - replace it...which is great. But the more "diesel" type issues they get, the more they will start to target dealers to reduce the number of warranty claims, and there won't be much left between BMW, Audi, MB or Lexus...that's the fear!!

So far my Beemer hasn't had to go back for anything at all - it's run perfectly, but I know it'll be hassle if I do...the only advantage is that I have a shed load of Indies I can go to too!!!

Having said that - for all you Leicestershire based Lexus owners - Sturgess Nissan (Who are Excellent) also service all Toyota' to manufacturer spec - they might even do your Lex...

could you post the list of recalls specific to the diesel that is as long as your arm?

[fairygodmother]

I am not really sure what you want Lexus to do for you?

The dealer network are owned by independent dealer groups and not Lexus. Labour rates will vary depending on location and overheads. With regards to service quotes a dealer asking for your details and checking the price must be good business practice with all the different services and models?. Would you rather them get it wrong and have issues when you go to pay?. My advice is get quotes and you decide where you want to go for your servicing.

From this thread you seem happy with your car, its not broken down or had faults but you are not happy with the dealers you have dealt with. So you should be speaking with the relevant dealer staff to get you problems resolved.

What is the Lexus ownership experience you talk about???? What do you expect from a car maker???? I would have said its a well made car that you enjoy with competitive running costs, a good quality dealer network and if something goes wrong it is dealt with professionally and quickly.

I had an IS220d recently with 93000 miles on and the head gasket went. The dealer spoke to Lexus who were very suprised by this and although it was out of warranty by 33000 miles and cost over £2000 they fixed it and loaned me a 250 for a week free of charge. Now that is great customer service from Lexus and the reason why i bought another one.

I think you've missed some of the detail....

Lexus claim to compell their dealers to prove a set level of standards & support & whilst I accept they cannot control what individual business acting on their behlaf charge, it s very much in their interest to ensure that some common sense comes into play when the bills are produced.

Some of the dealers are, without doubt (I have checked things like local taxes etc on a comparitive basis) charging sky rocket prices vs others & that's to our cost & Lexus's discredit.

Being totally fair, Lexus are far from unique in this situation - however, a very large part of the promotional angle is centred on the service levels a Lexus owner can expect & to effectively say that this can come at any price the dealer wants to charge is a cop out because the price should come as part of that mantra.

That others on this site have decalred a fall in standards, the press have also expressed (not just the article I referred to either) concerns that dealer standards are slipping only adds to the discomfort when the bill is handed over.

I seem to recall that a valet was part of every service - somewhere along the line I'm sure I heard/read that - as part of the Lexus deal - mine has been into different dealers on 3 occassions & not been valeted once- maybe I keep it too clean?

I would be the first to agree that not all the dealers are cast in the same mould - but I think you'll agree that a price hike of 40% when the dealer changes hands (over night as far as I can tell) is seriously questionable.

Hence my suggestion that Lexus, in line with their desire to provide customers with the best service possible, require all their main dealers to subit a monthly tarrif to Lexus as to their service charges for the routine services (at least for the warranty period where Lexus can claim to have a vested interest).

Any customer or even dealer can check the going rate at any delear they wish - & then book the service.

There is the risk, of course, that other dealers will see what the competition "get away with" & bring their charges into line. But I doubt it will happen, competition is how business survives & if that did happen Lexus sales would fall as other marques slot their costs beneth Lexus dealers to attract business as a whole.

In the end we all make choices, manufacturuers, delears, customers alike - the problem right now is that there is no control over the costs of keeping the promises Lexus makes & requires their delears to fulfill on their behalf. That makes the promise depreciate in value, becuase anyone can promise anything if the price to cover that is high enough. The question then becomes, who will/can afford to pay for that promise?

I'm not saying Lexus must, that would be unreasonable, but I do think Lexus have a moral obligation to see fair play on behalf of their customers as part of ensuring that promise is kept & publishing the dealer charges in one place is the least they could do to help achieve that.

I understand your point but how is dealers charging different rates for servicing any different from selling new cars at different prices? Why should Mr Smith get his car for £38000 and Mr Jones who is not good at haggling or living in a different area paying £41000? The reason why Lexus can't do anything is because it is against competition laws and if they made dealers charge the same price they would be creating a cartel. The office of fair trading would be over them like a rash. All Lexus can do is set a recommended retail price and it is up to the dealers to charge as much or as little as they like.

Have you contacted your Lexus dealer about the fixed price service plans they do? i recently got the next 3 services on my GS for £688, this is for 20000, 30000 and 40000.

[dave1]

Have you contacted your Lexus dealer about the fixed price service plans they do? i recently got the next 3 services on my GS for £688, this is for 20000, 30000 and 40000.

Which dealer quoted that? I have just been quoted £1300+ for 3yrs. 70K/7yr, 80K/8yr and 90K/9yr. My car has done less than 50K but has had all the services up to 60K/6yrs

[fairygodmother]

Have you contacted your Lexus dealer about the fixed price service plans they do? i recently got the next 3 services on my GS for £688, this is for 20000, 30000 and 40000.

Which dealer quoted that? I have just been quoted £1300+ for 3yrs. 70K/7yr, 80K/8yr and 90K/9yr. My car has done less than 50K but has had all the services up to 60K/6yrs

That was from Lexus Oxford my local dealer. When i set it up they also offered me interest free credit credit on the monthly payments. Not sure why your quote is so much more expensive will yours need a cam belt change?