What's Happening To Lexus?

[dave1]

Have you contacted your Lexus dealer about the fixed price service plans they do? i recently got the next 3 services on my GS for £688, this is for 20000, 30000 and 40000.

Which dealer quoted that? I have just been quoted £1300+ for 3yrs. 70K/7yr, 80K/8yr and 90K/9yr. My car has done less than 50K but has had all the services up to 60K/6yrs

That was from Lexus Oxford my local dealer. When i set it up they also offered me interest free credit credit on the monthly payments. Not sure why your quote is so much more expensive will yours need a cam belt change?

No cambelt needed until 100K miles/10yrs. Also offered 0% finance but I normally prefer to pay with credit card for the extra safety the credit card route provides. (No charge on credit card as I always pay in full each month).

[MartyCee]

''as they insist on very strict criteria for servicing, that pretty much compells ownrs to use the main agents to preserve the warranty''

That bits not right mate, you can take your new car to any VAT Reg garage, and use genuine Toyota/lexus parts and your warranty will be ok :D

Lexus can do nothing about this, as its now the law, and was made to stop what you have said from happening :D

I am aware of that, but there is a small additional piece of information .... the service agent has to be able to demonstrate a wroking knowledge of the vehicle & have "suitable diagnostic equipment". Without those there is the risk that Lexus/Toyota (et al) could throw out a claim forcing a lengthy/costly fight to get them to honour the claim. OK, these are supposed to be super reliable vehicles, but is it worth the risk? Also there's the depreciation factor, those dealer stamps can be worth gold come p/ex or resale.

I totally agree with your words of wisdom, no qualms about that at all, except .... see above, a £40+K car isn't the kind of item you buy to take "risks" with & Lexus etc know it, law or no law, they get you in the end I fear.

[MartyCee]

Firstly - your problems appeared to start with the "new saleguy" and lack of training - which is the dealership issue - not Lexus directly (though of course he represents Lexus...)

Guys - I have found very little difference between any of the Sytner (owned by Penske USA, and not Frank Sytner) garages - as an example...

Audi in Nottingham appeared to be the best overall - but I have never experienced their after sales

BMW and Lexus in Leicester are a total joke (actually on a par with the Leicester Audi when they were by Fox, and are now Sytner too)

The worst thing Lexus did was "split" Lexus from Toyota. They tried to make it into a standalone marque and are now beginning to pay the price - even though it's been a few years.

The dealership Quality has dropped to what is deemed acceptable by the "franchise management" that runs it and, for example the Fiat dealership that may also run within franchise, and therefore not quite what Lexus aimed for....

The other side of this is that one or 2 recent Lexus models have been poorly designed - the diesel being one - with a list of recalls and issues as long as your arm. As each car owner discovers a problem, they go to the dealer where they are let down by the "human" attitude, fixes after fixes, tweak after tweak, etc etc, only to discover even more issue coming out of the woodwork...

The only thing currently, in my view, that Lexus dealers are very good at is the no quibble approach with warranty work. No questions - replace it...which is great. But the more "diesel" type issues they get, the more they will start to target dealers to reduce the number of warranty claims, and there won't be much left between BMW, Audi, MB or Lexus...that's the fear!!

So far my Beemer hasn't had to go back for anything at all - it's run perfectly, but I know it'll be hassle if I do...the only advantage is that I have a shed load of Indies I can go to too!!!

Having said that - for all you Leicestershire based Lexus owners - Sturgess Nissan (Who are Excellent) also service all Toyota' to manufacturer spec - they might even do your Lex...

I agree, most of the problems I have highlighted are dealership issues.

In the first instance a full customer re-train was offered, but as I am "independantly employed" :-) that would have meant time off, there was no apology, no offer to cover my lost time (remember the dealer insisted on the specific hand over date to "meet their end of month figures" & when I sent in a survey to Lexuus lambasting the dealer for such a soddy hand over & subsequent attitude (I was as nice as pie in every interaction with them, really, no, really, I was, honest!) the original salesperson (who wasn't there for the handover) called me to complain that the delaership (& themselves in particular) had received "a black mark" for the poor survey results.

Besides, by the time that offer came - about a month+ later, I'd spent an evening in the car, with the books & worked it all out for myself - could have done that with a Ford & saved a packet!

Now, excuse me for being a little indifferent here, but if you don't do the job you are supposed to do & you delegate the task to someone who can't do it you have no right to complain if you get sent to the naughty corner. Most certainly you don't call the customer on the end of your antics to tell them they've dropped you in it!

I think the problems are two fold, I started off my time with Lexus from a low point, when it should have been the highest point (buying a new car) & probably, my expectations were tinted less than rose cloured from there on. And Lexus are afraid to stick to their standards & require their dealers to do the same or bring sanctions (smaller dealer discounts for example) against those who consistantly fail to deliver.

That's fine, I can accept all that that, so long as Lexus understand that their highly publicised "fantastic service" isn't as widely described because, like the salesperson above, they don't do the required things to ensure standards are mantained.

For sure, there are some shining lights out there, I've noted a few recommended following this post & will endeavour to make to the time to try them for myself, however, my point still stands.

Whilst we all accept that "S**T happens (we've all seen Forrest Gump! LOL) the Lexus dealerships I've encounterd have all been found lacking in one way or another - short cuts & poor service do not a Prime Brand Reputation make...... they undermine the whole & as a result Mercedes & BMW will be at least equal on my next shopping list - will I compalin if things go wrong with my choice? Of course! However, instead of Lexus being my bench mark on "how to do it" they are my example on "how easy it is to get it seriously wrong".

[1newlexusowner]

The worst thing Lexus did was "split" Lexus from Toyota. They tried to make it into a standalone marque and are now beginning to pay the price - even though it's been a few years.

No the worst thing Lexus did was to get into bed with any dealership chain that promised to build the lexus dealer blueprint design and then just leave em to their own devices....lol

I have now purchased another RX300 on an 03 plate with full service lexus history and boy do they know how to charge OTT prices for both parts and services and the Lady that owned it before me must tried diferent dealers through out the land one service cost her £965+vat at 55,000 and all that was on the bill was 0-30w oil, new air filter/oil filter/plugs!!!

OIL COSTS £90 (£45 anywhere else)

AIR FILTER £12 fair price

OIL FILTER £17 fair price

PLUGS X 6=£695 ebayuk £48

NO CLEAN CAR LATER EITHER!!!! )(EXTRA CHARGE)

Come on guys if this fair then all you sleeping dealers on this nice forum should get a gun out and put us Lexus costumers out of our misery real quick....lol

[aido]

£700 for plugs :o

Is that including fitting or just for the plugs?!

[1newlexusowner]

£700 for plugs :o

Is that including fitting or just for the plugs?!

Hello again mate!

No it was not but thats nothing one other dealer 1 year before that bill wanted £790 but gave an £350 loyality discount which was really strange as she had never been there before or since went back I wonder why, at these rates concord would still be flying if they charged the same money for servicing...lol

B.

[fairygodmother]

Firstly - your problems appeared to start with the "new saleguy" and lack of training - which is the dealership issue - not Lexus directly (though of course he represents Lexus...)

Guys - I have found very little difference between any of the Sytner (owned by Penske USA, and not Frank Sytner) garages - as an example...

Audi in Nottingham appeared to be the best overall - but I have never experienced their after sales

BMW and Lexus in Leicester are a total joke (actually on a par with the Leicester Audi when they were by Fox, and are now Sytner too)

The worst thing Lexus did was "split" Lexus from Toyota. They tried to make it into a standalone marque and are now beginning to pay the price - even though it's been a few years.

The dealership Quality has dropped to what is deemed acceptable by the "franchise management" that runs it and, for example the Fiat dealership that may also run within franchise, and therefore not quite what Lexus aimed for....

The other side of this is that one or 2 recent Lexus models have been poorly designed - the diesel being one - with a list of recalls and issues as long as your arm. As each car owner discovers a problem, they go to the dealer where they are let down by the "human" attitude, fixes after fixes, tweak after tweak, etc etc, only to discover even more issue coming out of the woodwork...

The only thing currently, in my view, that Lexus dealers are very good at is the no quibble approach with warranty work. No questions - replace it...which is great. But the more "diesel" type issues they get, the more they will start to target dealers to reduce the number of warranty claims, and there won't be much left between BMW, Audi, MB or Lexus...that's the fear!!

So far my Beemer hasn't had to go back for anything at all - it's run perfectly, but I know it'll be hassle if I do...the only advantage is that I have a shed load of Indies I can go to too!!!

Having said that - for all you Leicestershire based Lexus owners - Sturgess Nissan (Who are Excellent) also service all Toyota' to manufacturer spec - they might even do your Lex...

I agree, most of the problems I have highlighted are dealership issues.

In the first instance a full customer re-train was offered, but as I am "independantly employed" :-) that would have meant time off, there was no apology, no offer to cover my lost time (remember the dealer insisted on the specific hand over date to "meet their end of month figures" & when I sent in a survey to Lexuus lambasting the dealer for such a soddy hand over & subsequent attitude (I was as nice as pie in every interaction with them, really, no, really, I was, honest!) the original salesperson (who wasn't there for the handover) called me to complain that the delaership (& themselves in particular) had received "a black mark" for the poor survey results.

Besides, by the time that offer came - about a month+ later, I'd spent an evening in the car, with the books & worked it all out for myself - could have done that with a Ford & saved a packet!

Now, excuse me for being a little indifferent here, but if you don't do the job you are supposed to do & you delegate the task to someone who can't do it you have no right to complain if you get sent to the naughty corner. Most certainly you don't call the customer on the end of your antics to tell them they've dropped you in it!

I think the problems are two fold, I started off my time with Lexus from a low point, when it should have been the highest point (buying a new car) & probably, my expectations were tinted less than rose cloured from there on. And Lexus are afraid to stick to their standards & require their dealers to do the same or bring sanctions (smaller dealer discounts for example) against those who consistantly fail to deliver.

That's fine, I can accept all that that, so long as Lexus understand that their highly publicised "fantastic service" isn't as widely described because, like the salesperson above, they don't do the required things to ensure standards are mantained.

For sure, there are some shining lights out there, I've noted a few recommended following this post & will endeavour to make to the time to try them for myself, however, my point still stands.

Whilst we all accept that "S**T happens (we've all seen Forrest Gump! LOL) the Lexus dealerships I've encounterd have all been found lacking in one way or another - short cuts & poor service do not a Prime Brand Reputation make...... they undermine the whole & as a result Mercedes & BMW will be at least equal on my next shopping list - will I compalin if things go wrong with my choice? Of course! However, instead of Lexus being my bench mark on "how to do it" they are my example on "how easy it is to get it seriously wrong".

When have you ever seen Lexus advertise their highly publicised "fantastic service"? Lexus never shout about that in their marketing that i have ever seen.

It all comes from the reputation the dealers have made over the years in this country, United States and the motoring press hype. Sure by the sound of it some dealers are doing their bit to destroy this but there must be many satisfied Lexus owners still out there that we never hear from. I am certainly one of those and after previous experiences i would not go near a merc or a bmw dealer.

Personally i have always found the Oxford garage very helpful and professional and i too took delivery of my car at the end of the month to help their sales figures. This was not an ideal time for me but i was more than happy because it worked out to be a fantastic deal :winky: .

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

They don't advertise it per say, but the dealers don't half tell you about it when your shopping for a car! Walk into a Lexus showroom as a noob, and just hear them clatter on about high reliability and low depreciation...

The facts are that the JD Power survey in the states set the bar in the early 90's - but that's in a country where the first reliable Luxury car maker was Toyota (re-invented as Lexus) - so it was bound to beat GM, most Germans and Ford from a reliability perspective...especially as it had every option as standard...

Don't forget guys - Lexus was invented for the USA where the big market is, not Europe - we just happen to get them here...it's one of the reasons why Lexus Petrol (non H) engines aren't terribly good on fuel or CO2 (tho' they will have to change that now)...' as Uncle SAM don't care...

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

could you post the list of recalls specific to the diesel that is as long as your arm?

[dgman]

could you post the list of recalls specific to the diesel that is as long as your arm?

yet another one of your toothless tiger comments,are you and exiled one in the same person,if it smells like like fish it usually is.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

could you post the list of recalls specific to the diesel that is as long as your arm?

yet another one of your toothless tiger comments,are you and exiled one in the same person,if it smells like like fish it usually is.

Whatever...

PS - you know full well how many remap after remap, EGR valves, 5th Injector after 5th injector. Try ignoring it if you will, but the Lexus experience has tumbled, and I congratulate the poster of this thread in trying to get it discussed, rather than brushed under some carpet somewhere...I doubt that any other Lexus (IS220d) has ever had so many issues where even the dealers are perplexed...I actually worked with my dealr to get the car right and posted my findings subjectively here, rather than constantly looking through Lexus tinted specs...

Please don't make accusation like the one above, or picking up on every word and trying to make an issue. It's quite tedious. There really is no point in making it personal. This is some one elses thread - start your own one if you want...

PPS - sure I don't have a Lexus anymore, but I would if they got the basics rights again, and I have always been a Toyota follower ever since my Dad had a 1969 Toyota Corona, then a Cressida in 1979, then my Corolla in 1990 (best Toyota ever) and Carina E in 1996. They were fantastic cars, and yes I do want both Toyota and Lexus to get it right again - these forums really help. I'm not loyal to any brand, which is why hop around, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't ever have one again...

[jaroph]

could you post the list of recalls specific to the diesel that is as long as your arm?

yet another one of your toothless tiger comments,are you and exiled one in the same person,if it smells like like fish it usually is.

Whatever...

PS - you know full well how many remap after remap, EGR valves, 5th Injector after 5th injector. Try ignoring it if you will, but the Lexus experience has tumbled, and I congratulate the poster of this thread in trying to get it discussed, rather than brushed under some carpet somewhere...I doubt that any other Lexus (IS220d) has ever had so many issues where even the dealers are perplexed...I actually worked with my dealr to get the car right and posted my findings subjectively here, rather than constantly looking through Lexus tinted specs...

Please don't make accusation like the one above, or picking up on every word and trying to make an issue. It's quite tedious. There really is no point in making it personal. This is some one elses thread - start your own one if you want...

PPS - sure I don't have a Lexus anymore, but I would if they got the basics rights again, and I have always been a Toyota follower ever since my Dad had a 1969 Toyota Corona, then a Cressida in 1979, then my Corolla in 1990 (best Toyota ever) and Carina E in 1996. They were fantastic cars, and yes I do want both Toyota and Lexus to get it right again - these forums really help. I'm not loyal to any brand, which is why hop around, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't ever have one again...

Agree with most of your comments but there is no company that is 100% perfect. Yes some people have had bad experiences and have been let down by some dealers and that is unacceptable and Lexus GB should look into all cases brought to its attention. However, the fact that some people have had bad experiences does not mean that those who have had good experiences are merely looking at Lexus via tinted specs. I have been driving Lexus cars (7 so far) since 2001 and my experiences have been nothing short of excellent, save for the below par customer services at Lexus Teesside as I have stated before. Yes issues should be sorted out quickly and as consumers, we also have a duty to present our cases to the dealer in a professional manner. Some conversations I over hear when taking my cars for service are beyond appalling. Some poeple behave as though buying a car entitles them to insult, or look at down on service personnel. No I do not work for Lexus - I feel the same about general customer behaviour towards waiters in restaurants. Sometimes, our behaviour can adversely affect the outcome from the dealer. I am not saying this applies in your case, but I thought a general comment on the subject is fitting given the context of the above posts. As another poster said we should treat others the way we wish to be treated!

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

You are right - not everyone has bad service. I was always courteous and professional with my dealership, even hen they lost my cheque for £6500 (having found it themselves later)!

However, as pointed out above it comes down to human factors... but then no one should really have to suffer anything short of excellent service - - remember guys - we pay them anything between £75 and £125 per hour for fixing and servicing and many more thousands when buying!! For that I certainly have high expectations...and wouldn't begrudge anyone having a go 'cos the service was shoddy...

And yes - if someone was paying me £100 per hour I'd give them excellent service....and if I made a pigs ear out of it, I'd expected to be shouted at!

[dave1]

You are right - not everyone has bad service. I was always courteous and professional with my dealership, even hen they lost my cheque for £6500 (having found it themselves later)!

However, as pointed out above it comes down to human factors... but then no one should really have to suffer anything short of excellent service - - remember guys - we pay them anything between £75 and £125 per hour for fixing and servicing and many more thousands when buying!! For that I certainly have high expectations...and wouldn't begrudge anyone having a go 'cos the service was shoddy...

And yes - if someone was paying me £100 per hour I'd give them excellent service....and if I made a pigs ear out of it, I'd expected to be shouted at!

You may be paying the dealership that amount but the various employees that you deal with are getting nowhere near that figure. Shouting at staff is pointless and demeaning. Be civil, fair, but firm and you will get a far better response than by being rude and talking down to the staff. What they are being paid is totally irrelevant. I expect people to do their jobs properly even if they are on minimum wage. Remember also that if the guy you are dealing with is rude or unresponsive then the blame for it probably lies with the dealer principle. Ultimately he, through his various departmental managers, is responsible for staff training, motivation, supervision etc.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Which is where we go full circle. Dealership issues are largely down to the management and human attitudes and since most Lexus garages are owned by large franchises, the lowest acceptable standard becomes the norm...

My initial meeting with the DP resolved most of my early concerns and it broke the ice.

Like you say - being firm and complaining properly yields better results...

[MartyCee]

What is going on? We're all used to the hype being greater than the reality, but Lexus claim to have the very best automotive experience out there - not in my experience!

After my first year of ownership of an RX400h I have to say I am seriously questioning the wisdom of my choice.

The hand over was a joke, literally.

Due to the deal struck the dealer insisted on specifying the handover date to suit their end of month figures - fair enough.

But come the day the sales people I dealt with were away for various reasons & the whole process was handled by a new team member who got most of the "owner training" wrong - days pouring over the handbook proved this & the list of errors covers almost 2 sides of an A4 sheet.

Despite assurances (because the weather reports were dire) the entire handover took place in the pouring rain & was rushed as a consequence.

There was more, the p/ex was driven around & spotted by friends because the dealership used my personal plates rather than their own trade plates - one called me & said "you were going a bit this morning weren't you?" Apparently he was over taken my what he thought was me (he didn't know about my purchase) at what (on here) can only be described as a considerable rate of knots.

A few months in I had the misfortune to have a broken windscreen while in Europe. It was the day I due to return so I brought it back to the UK for a repair - after hours on the phone (no repairer could locate a screen), it transpired there were only 2 in whole of the UK & one had just been sold - luckily I got the last one or I would have had a lengthy delay (the screen was cracked from to to bottom).

Now I come to first service time.

The local dealer has been taken over in the interim, so the price has lept from the £180 quoted at the time of purchase to £250. Inflation? I think not - within 40 minutes of my home I have been quoted (approx) £180, £215, £250 & £280 - all for exactly the same service &, presumably (Lexus Standards Police do check apparently!) quality of workmanship.

Now I did some checking (before a flame war starts!) between the cheapest & the most expensive the business rates are within 5%, can't say about how much they pay, but It can't much different because the cost of living & house prices are within 8% (max) - so why a service cost charge disaparity of over 33% And why a local price hike of around 40%?

To make it worse, 5 out of the first 6 dealers I called couldn't simply give me a quote over the phone, they wanted to call me back.

When they called they wanted to collect all my data (for their customer mailing lists no doubt) first & then quote.

I copied my concerns to Lexus & have received a patronising call stating that dealers can charge what they like - using local conditions as justification. So no help there, "Lexus experience" really means "dealership experience" so they are no different to the rest of the crowd in the market place.

By comparision BMW dealers & Mercedes dealers in the same areas vary by 10% & some offer customers who buy from them a discount on all servicing for the duration of the ownership.

In Autocar a couple of weeks back (their running an IS500 - you know that new M3 beater?) & their experience was back to the bad old Leyland days.

They couldn't get the car booked in, some dealers hadn't heard of the model & when they did get the work done the car was returned with body wax on the driver's seat.

When they complained the car was taken back, cleaned & the leather stretched & wrinkled in the process of removing the marks - all in the magazine photos & all.

So before I decide to forget my intent to buy my partner an is220d .......... am I right or wrong? Are Lexus falling down & is it time to move on to another marque before I get my fingers burnt again?

OK, this is the conclusion for you.

Today I had the call from Lexus & it was much as has been discussed.

Lexus acknowledge that my year is not what they would consider ideal. They blame the dealers concerned for everything, accept no responsibility, moral or otherwise, they happily accepted a couple of useful proposals as to how they could improve matters & have offered to ask the new local dealer principal to contact me to try & build bridges.

As this comes from the highest level in Lexus I must say it's left me thinking Lexus really don't give a damn about their end users at all.

It one thing to agree that matters aren't right, it quite another to wash your hands of those (agreed as wrong) issues, even if there is future business stake & blame the middle man for everything.

LEXUS ARE YOU LISTENING? NO? I DIDN'T THINK SO.

Bottom line, there will not be another Lexcus, or Toyota at this home - ever.

Lexus needs to appreciate that listening to a customer's concnerns "so I can understand" isn't going to cut it alone - we can all listen & make the right noises. But in the end it takes more than that if you're going to invest around £70,000 of hard earned in a company's products.

As it is, well if I'm asked about my car my the curious in the car park (Hybrids tend to do that) I'll have to be honest......

"Nice car, crap dealer service & couldn't care less attitude by the manufacturer - buy one at your own risk"

Oh & by the way, the distinct impression I had was that we minions don't count in the Lexus Master Plan, they are more interested in their ongoing trails with dealers to improve sales, set standards (what standards, what b*****ks!) & so on - the individual customer doesn't come into it......

And..... (rant nearly over) the director I spoke knew precisely what my business intersts were - & basically overlooked it - BIG MISTAKE - on Monday I have to sit down with one of the companies of which I am a investor/partner.

The agenda includes replacing the company cars they run, currently Jaguar X-Types & S-Types. The local dealer has closed, a family business that couldn't make it through the current economic climate - they are seriously considering Lexus IS & GS models - not while I'm an investor they won't. There's a good Merc agent locally & another Jag agent 10 miles away - that nice little earner will go there in April, sorry Lexus you've got a loose cannon out here now - all for want of some acceptance of corporate responsibilty.

What a dud lot.

[jaroph]

What is going on? We're all used to the hype being greater than the reality, but Lexus claim to have the very best automotive experience out there - not in my experience!

After my first year of ownership of an RX400h I have to say I am seriously questioning the wisdom of my choice.

The hand over was a joke, literally.

Due to the deal struck the dealer insisted on specifying the handover date to suit their end of month figures - fair enough.

But come the day the sales people I dealt with were away for various reasons & the whole process was handled by a new team member who got most of the "owner training" wrong - days pouring over the handbook proved this & the list of errors covers almost 2 sides of an A4 sheet.

What you refer to as owner training is merely an introduction to the car - it is not meant to replace the manual or to be as comprehensive as the manual. 2 sides of A4? That is stretching it.

Despite assurances (because the weather reports were dire) the entire handover took place in the pouring rain & was rushed as a consequence.

Which dealership was this? Why could this not happen under cover and why did it take place outside the vehicle? All my hand overs (7 in total) have taken place in doors and in all cases the sales man and I were inside the vehicle.

There was more, the p/ex was driven around & spotted by friends because the dealership used my personal plates rather than their own trade plates - one called me & said "you were going a bit this morning weren't you?" Apparently he was over taken my what he thought was me (he didn't know about my purchase) at what (on here) can only be described as a considerable rate of knots.

Not sure why this is relevant - Once you have sold the car in a Part Ex deal , it is theirs so why are you bothered?

A few months in I had the misfortune to have a broken windscreen while in Europe. It was the day I due to return so I brought it back to the UK for a repair - after hours on the phone (no repairer could locate a screen), it transpired there were only 2 in whole of the UK & one had just been sold - luckily I got the last one or I would have had a lengthy delay (the screen was cracked from to to bottom).

Not sure why this is a Lexus problem. I had a broken windscreen and Autoglass sorted it out. If you had European break down cover you could have had it repaired abroad too. In any case, the shortage was temporary, and you screen was repaired. Not sure what the issue is here.

Now I come to first service time.

The local dealer has been taken over in the interim, so the price has lept from the £180 quoted at the time of purchase to £250. Inflation? I think not - within 40 minutes of my home I have been quoted (approx) £180, £215, £250 & £280 - all for exactly the same service &, presumably (Lexus Standards Police do check apparently!) quality of workmanship.

Dealer prices vary for servicing for any make of car. If you wanted a guaranteed servicing price, you could have opted for the fixed price prepaid option. It is up to the customer to book their car into a dealer who offers the best deal. You did the right thing by ringing round, so again, what is the issue?

Now I did some checking (before a flame war starts!) between the cheapest & the most expensive the business rates are within 5%, can't say about how much they pay, but It can't much different because the cost of living & house prices are within 8% (max) - so why a service cost charge disaparity of over 33% And why a local price hike of around 40%?

B-service on an S320cdi Mercedes in Guildford is £750; in Weston Supermare £280. Supply and demand, it is annoying but it happens. There is no law on maximum pricing or wages for dealership staff, or indeed for disparities in rent for premises. Have you rung rung for a plumber lately? Their prices are no different. I understand your frustration but it happens everywhere and we have to vote with our feet and wallets. Dealers soon learn to be reasonable with their pricing.

To make it worse, 5 out of the first 6 dealers I called couldn't simply give me a quote over the phone, they wanted to call me back.

When they called they wanted to collect all my data (for their customer mailing lists no doubt) first & then quote.

Same with Jaguar, Mercedes, BMW, Audi etc. They do not refuse to supply the quote if you refuse to give them the information though. I always get quotes form other dealerships before booking in my car and I have never had a problem with Guildford, Reading, Brighton, Basingstoke, Swindon, Twickenham or Park Lane. I politely refuse to give them the details and they still quote.

I copied my concerns to Lexus & have received a patronising call stating that dealers can charge what they like - using local conditions as justification. So no help there, "Lexus experience" really means "dealership experience" so they are no different to the rest of the crowd in the market place.

Seems the right response to me. I don't like paying dealership prices but that does not mean I should protest to Lexus GB - what on earth are they supposed to do bout it? We live in a capitalist world and businesses are their to make money and will price according to what customers are willing to pay. When one Shell petrol station is more pricey that the one down the road, do you ring up Shell to complain, or just drive down the road to the cheaper one?

By comparision BMW dealers & Mercedes dealers in the same areas vary by 10% & some offer customers who buy from them a discount on all servicing for the duration of the ownership.

Anybody can give you a 10% discount. Question is 10% of what? Mercedes Guildford quoted me £750 for a B service including 10% loyalty discount on labour and parts!

In Autocar a couple of weeks back (their running an IS500 - you know that new M3 beater?) & their experience was back to the bad old Leyland days.

They couldn't get the car booked in, some dealers hadn't heard of the model & when they did get the work done the car was returned with body wax on the driver's seat.

Well most people would struggle with an "IS500", but they would know an ISF. Again is this really an issue for Lexus GB?

When they complained the car was taken back, cleaned & the leather stretched & wrinkled in the process of removing the marks - all in the magazine photos & all.

And what happened next? The customer should take this up with the dealer in question. It is not acceptable, neither is it a normal occurrence.

So before I decide to forget my intent to buy my partner an is220d .......... am I right or wrong? Are Lexus falling down & is it time to move on to another marque before I get my fingers burnt again?

No, I think you are not a satisfied customer and you feel your Dealership has let you down. However the statements you have laid before the forum do not provide any insight into why you feel so aggrieved. So it may well be that finding a different marque is the right course for you. I hope you find a car you like and a better ownership experience. No one deserves to feel dissatisfied after spending thousands of hard earned cash. Good luck!

[TERMINATOR]

What is going on? We're all used to the hype being greater than the reality, but Lexus claim to have the very best automotive experience out there - not in my experience!

After my first year of ownership of an RX400h I have to say I am seriously questioning the wisdom of my choice.

The hand over was a joke, literally.

Due to the deal struck the dealer insisted on specifying the handover date to suit their end of month figures - fair enough.

But come the day the sales people I dealt with were away for various reasons & the whole process was handled by a new team member who got most of the "owner training" wrong - days pouring over the handbook proved this & the list of errors covers almost 2 sides of an A4 sheet.

Despite assurances (because the weather reports were dire) the entire handover took place in the pouring rain & was rushed as a consequence.

There was more, the p/ex was driven around & spotted by friends because the dealership used my personal plates rather than their own trade plates - one called me & said "you were going a bit this morning weren't you?" Apparently he was over taken my what he thought was me (he didn't know about my purchase) at what (on here) can only be described as a considerable rate of knots.

A few months in I had the misfortune to have a broken windscreen while in Europe. It was the day I due to return so I brought it back to the UK for a repair - after hours on the phone (no repairer could locate a screen), it transpired there were only 2 in whole of the UK & one had just been sold - luckily I got the last one or I would have had a lengthy delay (the screen was cracked from to to bottom).

Now I come to first service time.

The local dealer has been taken over in the interim, so the price has lept from the £180 quoted at the time of purchase to £250. Inflation? I think not - within 40 minutes of my home I have been quoted (approx) £180, £215, £250 & £280 - all for exactly the same service &, presumably (Lexus Standards Police do check apparently!) quality of workmanship.

Now I did some checking (before a flame war starts!) between the cheapest & the most expensive the business rates are within 5%, can't say about how much they pay, but It can't much different because the cost of living & house prices are within 8% (max) - so why a service cost charge disaparity of over 33% And why a local price hike of around 40%?

To make it worse, 5 out of the first 6 dealers I called couldn't simply give me a quote over the phone, they wanted to call me back.

When they called they wanted to collect all my data (for their customer mailing lists no doubt) first & then quote.

I copied my concerns to Lexus & have received a patronising call stating that dealers can charge what they like - using local conditions as justification. So no help there, "Lexus experience" really means "dealership experience" so they are no different to the rest of the crowd in the market place.

By comparision BMW dealers & Mercedes dealers in the same areas vary by 10% & some offer customers who buy from them a discount on all servicing for the duration of the ownership.

In Autocar a couple of weeks back (their running an IS500 - you know that new M3 beater?) & their experience was back to the bad old Leyland days.

They couldn't get the car booked in, some dealers hadn't heard of the model & when they did get the work done the car was returned with body wax on the driver's seat.

When they complained the car was taken back, cleaned & the leather stretched & wrinkled in the process of removing the marks - all in the magazine photos & all.

So before I decide to forget my intent to buy my partner an is220d .......... am I right or wrong? Are Lexus falling down & is it time to move on to another marque before I get my fingers burnt again?

OK, this is the conclusion for you.

Today I had the call from Lexus & it was much as has been discussed.

Lexus acknowledge that my year is not what they would consider ideal. They blame the dealers concerned for everything, accept no responsibility, moral or otherwise, they happily accepted a couple of useful proposals as to how they could improve matters & have offered to ask the new local dealer principal to contact me to try & build bridges.

As this comes from the highest level in Lexus I must say it's left me thinking Lexus really don't give a damn about their end users at all.

It one thing to agree that matters aren't right, it quite another to wash your hands of those (agreed as wrong) issues, even if there is future business stake & blame the middle man for everything.

LEXUS ARE YOU LISTENING? NO? I DIDN'T THINK SO.

Bottom line, there will not be another Lexcus, or Toyota at this home - ever.

Lexus needs to appreciate that listening to a customer's concnerns "so I can understand" isn't going to cut it alone - we can all listen & make the right noises. But in the end it takes more than that if you're going to invest around £70,000 of hard earned in a company's products.

As it is, well if I'm asked about my car my the curious in the car park (Hybrids tend to do that) I'll have to be honest......

"Nice car, crap dealer service & couldn't care less attitude by the manufacturer - buy one at your own risk"

Oh & by the way, the distinct impression I had was that we minions don't count in the Lexus Master Plan, they are more interested in their ongoing trails with dealers to improve sales, set standards (what standards, what b*****ks!) & so on - the individual customer doesn't come into it......

And..... (rant nearly over) the director I spoke knew precisely what my business intersts were - & basically overlooked it - BIG MISTAKE - on Monday I have to sit down with one of the companies of which I am a investor/partner.

The agenda includes replacing the company cars they run, currently Jaguar X-Types & S-Types. The local dealer has closed, a family business that couldn't make it through the current economic climate - they are seriously considering Lexus IS & GS models - not while I'm an investor they won't. There's a good Merc agent locally & another Jag agent 10 miles away - that nice little earner will go there in April, sorry Lexus you've got a loose cannon out here now - all for want of some acceptance of corporate responsibilty.

What a dud lot.

Sorry again to hear of the intorelable service.

I purchased a car two weeks ago from lexus coventry and the car was not up to the standards i expect from lexus in terms of bodywork.

I travelled from glasgow to buy the car and only noticed the imperfections when i was home and washed the car.

I called and spoke to the sales manager who contacted the dp and i received a call to arrange transport of my car to one of the companies bodyshops,including a courtesey car, new alloy wheels and the car returned perfect with no fuss.

That is what i call lexus service.

I would also like to say,i have purchased several cars from lexus edinburgh also and any/all issues with the car even out of warranty were dealt with

perfectly.

I have had about 34 cars since i bought my first new car in 1995. 5 lexuses,2 mercs,3 bmws and numerous other marques and i always go back to lexus because nothing matches them.

I would return to the dealers willing to go over and above there normal duties and i would suggest sticking to lexus but go to a recommended dealer by someone on this forum.

If you are going to buy a lot of fleet cars negotiate a paid service plan for the 3 years.

[Boothby Coggles]

The bottom line surely is without sufficient customers any company is doomed, as a lot of them are finding out, or are about to. There will always be satisfied & dissatisfied customers. It seems that Lexus, as a corporate entity, need to be careful that the latter don't become more numerous than the former

[1newlexusowner]

I have been on this forum for about a year as its an open board and this is the best thread to date because it is starting to wake up even the sleeping dealers on this forum that unless Lexus GB gets their coperate fingers out they to will be on the scrap heap for ever!

But there is still a few out there thats kind of missing the point some what.

Lexus GB tells lies every day and every one knows it, they claim to be in charge of the dealerships and when you speak to top trouble shooters like mrs wellor you wish you were back talking to ford direct most of Lexus GB staff are mega rude oh yes they are always nice to start with but as soon as their arguments go out the window they suddenly become fighting pit bull terriers and what is worse they only have them selves to blame.

Lexus GB has no leadership most of the time they don't even know what they are selling.

If Lexus GB has no teeth what is the point of having customer service personel employed.

Every Lexus GB employee has to pass an so called special Lexus EXAM once they do they get to wear the gold "l" pin and if they do anything wrong they lose it for ever and every customer is told about before purchase yet when Lexus admit their dealerships are at fault why cant they remove the pins from the offenders?

The employees of the local dealerships all have an so called duty of care to Lexus GB so why if certain people are continuing to let down Lexus and its customers why are lexus not sending out stronger messages and making an example or is this gold pin just some more marketing hype to get us Brits to part with their hard earned dosh.

In this down turn in the UK lexus GB HAS 2 CHOICES,

1/Do nothing and become an MG Rover (die)

2/ Kick bums and maybe survive?

I hope its option 2 as if its 1 my lexus rx300 will be getting even dearer parts next service, it might be good time to buy parts in bulk as I fear the worst guys. lol

best regards,

B

[dave1]

Sorry again to hear of the intorelable service.

I purchased a car two weeks ago from lexus coventry and the car was not up to the standards i expect from lexus in terms of bodywork.

I travelled from glasgow to buy the car and only noticed the imperfections when i was home and washed the car.

I called and spoke to the sales manager who contacted the dp and i received a call to arrange transport of my car to one of the companies bodyshops,including a courtesey car, new alloy wheels and the car returned perfect with no fuss.

That is what i call lexus service.

I would also like to say,i have purchased several cars from lexus edinburgh also and any/all issues with the car even out of warranty were dealt with

perfectly.

I have had about 34 cars since i bought my first new car in 1995. 5 lexuses,2 mercs,3 bmws and numerous other marques and i always go back to lexus because nothing matches them.

I would return to the dealers willing to go over and above there normal duties and i would suggest sticking to lexus but go to a recommended dealer by someone on this forum.

If you are going to buy a lot of fleet cars negotiate a paid service plan for the 3 years.

So far, in nearly 7 years I have not had anything but outstanding service from Lexus Coventry. Used to be Nick Whale but now part of Listers Group.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

The problem is that it's all hit and miss....I know BMW, Mercedes and Audi drivers who have been overjoyed by the local main dealer - but that's because nothing major has ever gone wrong with their cars - so they've never had the "grey area" conversation about things...

Both purchases of my Lexus and BMW were handled disgracefully by the same group, lost cheques, mess up's with Cherished plates and road tax, bottles of wine for recalls which weren't there, never had calls back after leaving messages...all very consistent between both marques. The common denominator is that they are owned and run by the same people - so like I say - there is a "low" that they seem to think is acceptable. Poor management!!

My experience of Lex Cov was of arrogance on their part - talk about salesmen looking down their noses at you...very little product knowledge and loads of chin rubbing and sharp intakes of breath...all I asked were questions like -

"Does the fanned seats blow AC air, or ambient air"

"Will there be an Auto model of the diesel"

"Does it have variable assisted P/Steering"

My Nissan experience was brilliant, as was the Honda one - both much smaller (family owned) dealerships...that says it all for me.

Next car I buy will be one with Manufacturers warranty, but from cargiant 'cos there ain't no point in paying £000's extra towards them lush £multimillion showrooms...

[knitware]

Hi,

So "Does the fanned seats blow AC air, or ambient air", sorry to hyjack but i'd like to know this answer too!?

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Hi,

So "Does the fanned seats blow AC air, or ambient air", sorry to hyjack but i'd like to know this answer too!?

On the IS, it's ambient air. There are no specific AC ducts for the fan's under/inside the seats in the IS - might be different for the LS etc...

(I know other manufacturers, such as BMW, with "Active Ventilation" blows AC'd air not just through the base, but gently through the backrest too....)

[dave1]

Both purchases of my Lexus and BMW were handled disgracefully by the same group, lost cheques, mess up's with Cherished plates and road tax, bottles of wine for recalls which weren't there, never had calls back after leaving messages...all very consistent between both marques. The common denominator is that they are owned and run by the same people - so like I say - there is a "low" that they seem to think is acceptable. Poor management!!

My experience of Lex Cov was of arrogance on their part - talk about salesmen looking down their noses at you...very little product knowledge and loads of chin rubbing and sharp intakes of breath...all I asked were questions like -

"Does the fanned seats blow AC air, or ambient air"

"Will there be an Auto model of the diesel"

"Does it have variable assisted P/Steering"

So which group were you dealing with for your Lexus and your BMW?