What's Happening To Lexus?

Scarlet Pimpernell · February 10, 2009

Both purchases of my Lexus and BMW were handled disgracefully by the same group, lost cheques, mess up's with Cherished plates and road tax, bottles of wine for recalls which weren't there, never had calls back after leaving messages...all very consistent between both marques. The common denominator is that they are owned and run by the same people - so like I say - there is a "low" that they seem to think is acceptable. Poor management!!
My experience of Lex Cov was of arrogance on their part - talk about salesmen looking down their noses at you...very little product knowledge and loads of chin rubbing and sharp intakes of breath...all I asked were questions like -

"Does the fanned seats blow AC air, or ambient air"

"Will there be an Auto model of the diesel"

"Does it have variable assisted P/Steering"

So which group were you dealing with for your Lexus and your BMW?

Sytner

flotsam · February 18, 2009

I wouldn't use Hull.

I thought they'd changed the team and so trusted them one more time with a service and cam belt change.

I got the car back revving at 1100rpm when the ECU has a fixed range of 650~750rpm. So it looks like they've rigged the throttle position sensor to increase the revs and hide what they've done wrong. I could be wrong, but the fan and auxiliary belt are squeeking and the engine sounds as though it's wheezing when at idle.

The car used to be completely silent from inside when waiting at traffic lights for example. I've also stood next to a Toyota Supra which someone was trying to sell me. The guy revved the engine and the only sound I heard was the fan whirring around. That was a V6 and V8s are supposed to be the smoothest of all (no higher order harmonics once the engine's balanced). So mine's sounding like a bag of nails at the moment.

I could be wrong, perhaps Hull have just F***ed up and "accidentally" rigged the throttle open. I'm taking it back to give them a go at fixing it. If it ain't OK, I'm going elsewhere, never to return and writing tons of letters to the management.

Lexus Guildford used to service mine and I always got the car back sounding noticeably smoother and quieter. Now it's crap.

MartyCee · February 20, 2009

Sorry again to hear of the intorelable service.
I purchased a car two weeks ago from lexus coventry and the car was not up to the standards i expect from lexus in terms of bodywork.

I travelled from glasgow to buy the car and only noticed the imperfections when i was home and washed the car.

I called and spoke to the sales manager who contacted the dp and i received a call to arrange transport of my car to one of the companies bodyshops,including a courtesey car, new alloy wheels and the car returned perfect with no fuss.

That is what i call lexus service.

I would also like to say,i have purchased several cars from lexus edinburgh also and any/all issues with the car even out of warranty were dealt with

perfectly.

I have had about 34 cars since i bought my first new car in 1995. 5 lexuses,2 mercs,3 bmws and numerous other marques and i always go back to lexus because nothing matches them.

I would return to the dealers willing to go over and above there normal duties and i would suggest sticking to lexus but go to a recommended dealer by someone on this forum.

If you are going to buy a lot of fleet cars negotiate a paid service plan for the 3 years.

So far, in nearly 7 years I have not had anything but outstanding service from Lexus Coventry. Used to be Nick Whale but now part of Listers Group.

Well, all the dealers out there (OK, after my rant they'll all go duck & scream "Oh NO!"!!!) I AM on the look out for a dealer I CAN trust for the duration of my Lexus ownership &, if they are brave enough, to pull Lexus's arse out fo the fire.

So Coventry may be on my list - the hour each way is worth the trip if the workmanship is right & the costs not severe.

As closing comment on this.

Since my last post it has become explicitly clear through continued correspondence that Lexus only like their customers when they say nice things about them & don't complain too loudly.

I KNOW Lexus staff read this club's forums to gleen information on the sly.

Listening to your cutomers' concerns & addressing them first hand would be a far better approach.

We all know things go wrong from time to time, however when they do with a Lexus (or Toyota?) it quite clear from my experiences that the rot starts at Toyota Europe & everyone on the staff from the top down needs to ask themselves "when the customer has a problem am I part fo the solution or part of the rpoblem?" - so far I can honestly say that the indifferent approach from Lexus has mad matters considerably worse from my perspective, so the policies &/or the staff are very much part of the problem.

This can be reinforced by simply following that chain of thought through to the point where it is obvious that if the dealers know that complaints to Lexus/Toyota by customers will not be followed through to a satisfactory outcome then they are on free licence to do the same.

Leadership still counts. The Director in charge of Lexus GB clearly feels that stepping into an awkward situation is beneath their remit & customers are akin to something dragged in on the sole of their shoes.

I thought it was possible a bad day, or even personal - well it isn't the Directors of Toyota Europe go to great lengths to make sure even their names & contact details never reach the public - basically as long as they get money for the products they sell the rest of the business isn't their concern.

Well, in these difficult times (particularly) you NEED EVERY customer you can get & each is a hard won task for your dealers. You can't afford to have one person like me out there telling each & every person who asks about my car telling any potential customer how muchf indifference I've come across through a single year of ownership - or maybe as the largest car company on the planet you think you can? Well right now the Japanese economy is halfway to a depression - who'll fall on their sword first when the sales drop I wonder?

Why am I throwing this at Lexus instead of the dealership?

Well, the dealership I purchased from effectively doesn't exist - they were taken over by Johsons Cars (another group) & then the services went up by at least 25% & all outstanding issues ignored because they were the previous company (although the same staff remained in place).

Then the supply of windscreens was very much a Lexus problem.

So on that basis, Lexus are happy to leave owners high & dry.

My only regret?

Strange as it might seem it isn't buying the car - it's not being tougher earlier on - my first instinct when I heard that my p/ex was being used without trade plates & driven on my personal plate - there can only be one reason for this - to avoid "tickets" - was not to call the dealership, but to report this illegal activity to the Police & let them resolve it as they saw fit.

That Lexus feel even this activity wasn't worth investigating is VERY telling - but of course..... that dealership doesn't exist any more, the slate is wiped clean - even though the same people are representing lexus today

So there you have, one & all. We all know there are good & bad dealers, we all know that there are good & bad manufacturers - sad to say the the business with the most to lose (repuation wise) is actually my worst ever - & that's after quite a few good,bad & indifferent ones over more than 30 years of motoring - quite an accolade, if not the one Lexus would prefer.

Don't worry Lexus - wherever I go your reputation will preceed you, anyone even likely to grumble will buy something else - but then that seems to be the whole idea behind you tactics anyway.

Off to the solicitors now - just to be sure there isn't some legal way I can relieve the pain.

jnt · February 25, 2009

What is going on? We're all used to the hype being greater than the reality, but Lexus claim to have the very best automotive experience out there - not in my experience!
After my first year of ownership of an RX400h I have to say I am seriously questioning the wisdom of my choice.

The hand over was a joke, literally.

Due to the deal struck the dealer insisted on specifying the handover date to suit their end of month figures - fair enough.

But come the day the sales people I dealt with were away for various reasons & the whole process was handled by a new team member who got most of the "owner training" wrong - days pouring over the handbook proved this & the list of errors covers almost 2 sides of an A4 sheet.

Despite assurances (because the weather reports were dire) the entire handover took place in the pouring rain & was rushed as a consequence.

There was more, the p/ex was driven around & spotted by friends because the dealership used my personal plates rather than their own trade plates - one called me & said "you were going a bit this morning weren't you?" Apparently he was over taken my what he thought was me (he didn't know about my purchase) at what (on here) can only be described as a considerable rate of knots.

A few months in I had the misfortune to have a broken windscreen while in Europe. It was the day I due to return so I brought it back to the UK for a repair - after hours on the phone (no repairer could locate a screen), it transpired there were only 2 in whole of the UK & one had just been sold - luckily I got the last one or I would have had a lengthy delay (the screen was cracked from to to bottom).

Now I come to first service time.

The local dealer has been taken over in the interim, so the price has lept from the £180 quoted at the time of purchase to £250. Inflation? I think not - within 40 minutes of my home I have been quoted (approx) £180, £215, £250 & £280 - all for exactly the same service &, presumably (Lexus Standards Police do check apparently!) quality of workmanship.

Now I did some checking (before a flame war starts!) between the cheapest & the most expensive the business rates are within 5%, can't say about how much they pay, but It can't much different because the cost of living & house prices are within 8% (max) - so why a service cost charge disaparity of over 33% And why a local price hike of around 40%?

To make it worse, 5 out of the first 6 dealers I called couldn't simply give me a quote over the phone, they wanted to call me back.

When they called they wanted to collect all my data (for their customer mailing lists no doubt) first & then quote.

I copied my concerns to Lexus & have received a patronising call stating that dealers can charge what they like - using local conditions as justification. So no help there, "Lexus experience" really means "dealership experience" so they are no different to the rest of the crowd in the market place.

By comparision BMW dealers & Mercedes dealers in the same areas vary by 10% & some offer customers who buy from them a discount on all servicing for the duration of the ownership.

In Autocar a couple of weeks back (their running an IS500 - you know that new M3 beater?) & their experience was back to the bad old Leyland days.

They couldn't get the car booked in, some dealers hadn't heard of the model & when they did get the work done the car was returned with body wax on the driver's seat.

When they complained the car was taken back, cleaned & the leather stretched & wrinkled in the process of removing the marks - all in the magazine photos & all.

So before I decide to forget my intent to buy my partner an is220d .......... am I right or wrong? Are Lexus falling down & is it time to move on to another marque before I get my fingers burnt again?

jnt · February 25, 2009

I had similar hand over experience with my 2 week old pre-registered RX350. The reg document was sent to D.V.L.A. contrary to my instructions as I had a cherished number to transfer.When it eventually arrived the car was not pre-registered to the Lexus dealership but to the manager at his home address.

This in fact made it a used car not pre-reg as stated.

The invoicing was altered to reduce the value of the Lexus and my Mercedes trade in by £2,000.

This was done without my knowledge.I was told on the hand over day that they didn't have the invoice ready. I had to phone them for a copy of the invoice.

I sent the follow up questionaire to Lexus with my concerns and after 15 months have still not had a reply.

At my 1st service after 12 months with only 7,500 miles covered I was informed that the disc brakes required machining.This was carried out under warranty.It just so happens that I have run my own small garage busines for nearly 40 years and decide to check the work.The brake discs were in a worse state now because they had been machined on the car with worn machine tools.

SORRY BUT MY CAR WILL NEVER BE BACK TO LEXUS. A TOTALLY BAD EXPERIENCE FROM THE WORD GO.

PS. The RX350 is a wonderfull car returning never less than 25mpg.with 28 mpg easily on a run. Why waste your money on a hybrid.

jnt · February 25, 2009

I had similar hand over experience with my 2 week old pre-registered RX350. The reg document was sent to D.V.L.A. contrary to my instructions as I had a cherished number to transfer.When it eventually arrived the car was not pre-registered to the Lexus dealership but to the manager at his home address.

This in fact made it a used car not pre-reg as stated.

The invoicing was altered to reduce the value of the Lexus and my Mercedes trade in by £2,000.

This was done without my knowledge.I was told on the hand over day that they didn't have the invoice ready. I had to phone them for a copy of the invoice.

I sent the follow up questionaire to Lexus with my concerns and after 15 months have still not had a reply.

At my 1st service after 12 months with only 7,500 miles covered I was informed that the disc brakes required machining.This was carried out under warranty.It just so happens that I have run my own small garage busines for nearly 40 years and decide to check the work.The brake discs were in a worse state now because they had been machined on the car with worn machine tools.

SORRY BUT MY CAR WILL NEVER BE BACK TO LEXUS. A TOTALLY BAD EXPERIENCE FROM THE WORD GO.

PS. The RX350 is a wonderfull car returning never less than 25mpg.with 28 mpg easily on a run. Why waste your money on a hybrid.

LNM2MFE2 · February 28, 2009

After 6 years of ownership with a Lexus RX300 SE-L and GS430 both purchased from new. Both failed significantly in the warranty period. Dealer and Lexus GB tried but failed to provide simple customer service or live up to their "Pursuit of Perfection" strap line.

In the end they are just another provider of nice cars. If you can live with this OK, but the hype and expectation that they set is their downfall. When, and it does go wrong, the recovery required is more than a bottle of average champagne and a call from customer services. In calibration, my expectations are no more that anyone else spending 40 to 48K on a vehicle. It is a big surprise when they go wrong and an even bigger surprise when the dealer and manufacturer cannot make a timely or confidence inspiring fix.

Finally Lexus residual values was in my reality (fully understanding that no one buys a mainstream luxury car to conserve money) a total joke. Changing my cars every three years it was in the end amusing to see their own dealers offer the lowest bid on one of their top of the range cars in exchange for another of their finest.

The solution for me in the end was surprisingly simple, buy a Mercedes.

Mercedes is another often criticised manufacturer but in my experience with two totally fault free vehicles both purchased from new now in our household they are products from a manufacturer that deliver on their promise.

I can only say after 6 years of feeling let down after spending a huge amount of money it is good to see my purchases depreciate miserably but reliably.

flotsam · March 3, 2009

The car's great. It's the scumbag franchises.

Ullevi · March 3, 2009

...Why waste your money on a hybrid.(?)

Simple,because it is a better car.Therefore,not a waste of money.

Looking forward to my RX450h when they arrive!

flotsam · March 4, 2009

Could it be the Depression?

Are the Lexus crew throwing a tantrum for more pay. I certainly get this impression from the bizarre behaviour of Graham at Lexus Hull.

Ian-Leeds · March 8, 2009

Interesting thread.

I am on my second Lexus, both from Lexus in Bradford.

The dealership has moved three times and I think changed ownership once.

I have always had far better service than I ever got when I ran BMWs.

Duncan Roberts · March 10, 2009

Interesting thread.
I am on my second Lexus, both from Lexus in Bradford.

The dealership has moved three times and I think changed ownership once.

I have always had far better service than I ever got when I ran BMWs.

I did start a separate thread about Lexus in Bradford.

Whilst the first Lexus I had from them in 2005 was a decent experience. the current set up on Station Road is simply dreadful. Sales experience poor and the PDI not even carried out properly. The Dealer Principle did not even trouble to respond.

BMW next?

Ian-Leeds · March 10, 2009

Interesting thread.
I am on my second Lexus, both from Lexus in Bradford.

The dealership has moved three times and I think changed ownership once.

I have always had far better service than I ever got when I ran BMWs.

I did start a separate thread about Lexus in Bradford.

Whilst the first Lexus I had from them in 2005 was a decent experience. the current set up on Station Road is simply dreadful. Sales experience poor and the PDI not even carried out properly. The Dealer Principle did not even trouble to respond.

BMW next?

Clearly we have had different experiences.

I can only report that I took mine in for a service last week and got the usual first class service.

Duncan Roberts · March 15, 2009

Interesting thread.
I am on my second Lexus, both from Lexus in Bradford.

The dealership has moved three times and I think changed ownership once.

I have always had far better service than I ever got when I ran BMWs.

I did start a separate thread about Lexus in Bradford.

Whilst the first Lexus I had from them in 2005 was a decent experience. the current set up on Station Road is simply dreadful. Sales experience poor and the PDI not even carried out properly. The Dealer Principle did not even trouble to respond.

BMW next?

Clearly we have had different experiences.

I can only report that I took mine in for a service last week and got the usual first class service.

I was actually thinking the the buying experience. The original Lexus dealer in Bradford was good, the current one poor. Service at Bradford is an area which I have not used and thus cannot comment.

D

MartyCee · March 30, 2009

Hi All, it 's me, that whinging pain in the **** again! :-)

An adendum for you all.

As many have commneted, this has become a very interesting thread.

The dealers are very sporadic in the service, or lack of, that they offer - seems the "Monday morning" & "friday afternoon" symptoms still exist.

As I mnetioned, Lexus don't consider the customers' needs important enough to actually dirty their hands when things go badly & consistantly wrong.

I also mentioned that with my business connections & as a Company Director I didn't think this was a reasonable or moral way to conduct business - thet they claim to offer the best service only makes this position all the more indefensible.

Recently I had a small mark in the driver's door due to some oik swinging their door into mine whilst parked - OK it happens. Howver my car was supposed to have been treated with Supaguard (I know there are mixed opinions on this stuff - for me it works!) For the panel to be repaired requires a retreatment of the panel.

No problem..... ummmmmmmmm, "yes there is", says the repairer who also used the stuff, "the car hasn't been done"

Well cutting through the story, don't want you getting bored.... the car may or may not have been treated as paid for ( a few hundred quid) it may have been washed before the week to allow the process to complete was up, but, after being examined by Superguard's own local agent, it needed a full re-treatment - they don't put a man on a car for a good half day for that for nothing.

The difference was immediately apparent & the first time the car was washed, a full week later, the change was very, very apparent.

Sytner, the owners of the dealership at the core of my woes, have been billing by Superguard for the work done - apparently this is quite common, many Superguard kits appear on E-Bay etc.

BE WARNED! All these kits are stolen & new security measures are in place to track them. Superguard only provide their services through the trade or through their own service - as appllied, it is not available as a DIY & the warrenty doesn't apply without a receipt & warranty slip. Don't be fooled, that's from the horse's mouth!

As jobs are disappearing & wages are being cut across the car industry the pressure is on.

Smoke & mirrors abound & dealers will be out to cut corners in every way possible to save every pound - make sure you get what you pay for.

For those interested in a Superguard treatment/professional valet (not a cheap jack service) let me know - I have the details of a guy who will come & do it (if you're within the Northampton, Swindon, Cheltenham sort of area) on your drive - as you watch if you want, & his workmanship is second to none.

My Lexus nows goes to A.N.Other dealer & may be serviced in Europe - where the prices are about 50% of here. Rip off britain.... can't be surely? :-)

MartyCee