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Hi All, after reading TWO driven reports on the RX450h, I am as they were disapointed with economy and performance, booth were poor!!

26MPG is very poor and 0-60 times slower than the 400h.

I don't understand just were all this money being spent on so called "IMPROVEMENTS" is failing to provide the goods.

Yes the car is 450 pounds UP but improved tech with drive train and engine ect should more than compensate for this!!!.

The 600h flopped in the US this could follow, ideas?. :question:

Watch this;

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Media...ideoId=20268919

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That is disappointing, not so bothered about mpg but if the power's down then what's the point? Except for the boot size, the GS450h works pretty well purely because it's pretty quick for a large saloon (although not really enough quicker or fuel efficient than a 530i)

Don't think the LS600h really worked here either, it is too expensive and compared to it's second hand values an absolutely ridiculous car to buy new. Only upsides were the lack of congestion charge, and the lower road tax band........

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Hi All, after reading TWO driven reports on the RX450h, I am as they were disapointed with economy and performance, booth were poor!!

26MPG is very poor and 0-60 times slower than the 400h.

I don't understand just were all this money being spent on so called "IMPROVEMENTS" is failing to provide the goods.

Yes the car is 450 pounds UP but improved tech with drive train and engine ect should more than compensate for this!!!.

The 600h flopped in the US this could follow, ideas?. :question:

Watch this;

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Media...ideoId=20268919

But surely that is 26MPG using US gallons.

I remember there being many negative reports when the RX400h was launched - I will wait until I have the 450h for a weekend test drive before I make up my mind. I'm also thankful the 600h is depreciating - I think its a great car and look forward to buying one if the 450h disappoints.

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Hi All, after reading TWO driven reports on the RX450h, I am as they were disapointed with economy and performance, booth were poor!!

26MPG is very poor and 0-60 times slower than the 400h.

I don't understand just were all this money being spent on so called "IMPROVEMENTS" is failing to provide the goods.

Yes the car is 450 pounds UP but improved tech with drive train and engine ect should more than compensate for this!!!.

The 600h flopped in the US this could follow, ideas?. :question:

Watch this;

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Media...ideoId=20268919

But surely that is 26MPG using US gallons.

I remember there being many negative reports when the RX400h was launched - I will wait until I have the 450h for a weekend test drive before I make up my mind. I'm also thankful the 600h is depreciating - I think its a great car and look forward to buying one if the 450h disappoints.

US Gallon calculation 26MPG * 1.2= UK Gallons, thats =31.2MPG, dealerships have assured me that the RX450h will do 44MPG :tsktsk: another load of cr*p.

The 600h was complete waste of energy this really looks more of the same, I have mates who have the RX400h and they get between 25/28MPG now thats WAY below Lexus's supposed MPG. Why not tell the truth you may say, "because they wont sell" thats why. :whistling:

Long test drive recommended.

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Before we pre-judge the 450h, and this may sound unusual coming from someone like me, but lets not forget that he vehicles sold in the US are differently geared, have different emissions standards to meet and there is varying fuel quality in the US when compared to here. And as has already been mentioned, the US gallon is smaller than ours, however by simply converting 'their' figure to ours will not reveal the full story.

Our 450h will be differnt to the one sold in the US no doubt and thus consumption figures etc. may well be different.

Lexus showed us what could be achieved technologically with the first crop of Hybrids, but if they are to meet the march of dieel (as an example as BMW have taken forward) they will again need to push the boundries with these new Hybrids to remain competitive. So lets not pre-judge the 450h until we have tested 'ours'.

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I agree with everything you say about the vehicle, but I think the bigger picture needs to be considered here.

We all know that the RX400H / RX450H are not going to break any records for fuel economy. If you want an ecomonical car, you get a Prius, an Insight or a frugal small petrol or diesel (VW Bluemotion for example)

The market the RX4xxH models are aimed at are people who need / want an SUV (4x4) type vehicle, but want to tick the 'green' boxes - but not necessarily being green, but being seen to be green!

The reason for the 600h flop is that generally, people who are buying this class of car do not give a s**t about ticking green boxes and their money is better spent on BMW 7 series and Merc S class anyway.

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The thing is they're not lying about the fuel consumption figures, all cars are put through the same cycle and the figures are quite standardised - the problem with the hybrids is that it seems to be quite difficult to replicate the fuel figures in real life, I think it takes being very gentle on the throttle but I still maintain that there is no point buying a hybrid if you do a lot of motorway miles..........

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I agree with everything you say about the vehicle, but I think the bigger picture needs to be considered here.

We all know that the RX400H / RX450H are not going to break any records for fuel economy. If you want an ecomonical car, you get a Prius, an Insight or a frugal small petrol or diesel (VW Bluemotion for example).......

Well said. V8 performance at 28 - 34MPG in a Lexus 4x4 vehicle has been very worthwhile for me. And yes, 28MPG is the lowest I have ever had over nearly 3.5 years of 400h ownership.

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I agree with everything you say about the vehicle, but I think the bigger picture needs to be considered here.

We all know that the RX400H / RX450H are not going to break any records for fuel economy. If you want an ecomonical car, you get a Prius, an Insight or a frugal small petrol or diesel (VW Bluemotion for example).......

Well said. V8 performance at 28 - 34MPG in a Lexus 4x4 vehicle has been very worthwhile for me. And yes, 28MPG is the lowest I have ever had over nearly 3.5 years of 400h ownership.

Really ? I am only averaging 22mpg but then it has only covered 2000 miles, I am crossing my fingers it will get better ! Great acceleration though B)

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We all know that the RX400H / RX450H are not going to break any records for fuel economy. If you want an ecomonical car, you get a Prius, an Insight or a frugal small petrol or diesel (VW Bluemotion for example)

Sorry, but I do not agree with that.

You can buy a much better all round vehicle in a diesel BMW X5 (even in 'twin turbo' guise) that gives you both economy and power - and I would wager this is superior to the RX Hybrid. The only case for the hybrid that I can see is the London Congestion Charge or for business users, BIK - even on the BIK the X5 pushes the Hybrid close.

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We all know that the RX400H / RX450H are not going to break any records for fuel economy. If you want an ecomonical car, you get a Prius, an Insight or a frugal small petrol or diesel (VW Bluemotion for example)

Sorry, but I do not agree with that.

You can buy a much better all round vehicle in a diesel BMW X5 (even in 'twin turbo' guise) that gives you both economy and power - and I would wager this is superior to the RX Hybrid. The only case for the hybrid that I can see is the London Congestion Charge or for business users, BIK - even on the BIK the X5 pushes the Hybrid close.

I was not saying that the RX hybrid is more economical or better than other vehicles in the class, the point I was making is that people who buy the RX hybrid are not buying it for economy (or they are very misinformed if they are!) but for ticking the green credentials of it being a hybrid. Maybe the X5 is a better, more economical vehicle as a package, but my own personal preference would be an RX - I prefer the styling, I'm not saying it is any better, I just prefer it.

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We all know that the RX400H / RX450H are not going to break any records for fuel economy. If you want an ecomonical car, you get a Prius, an Insight or a frugal small petrol or diesel (VW Bluemotion for example)

Sorry, but I do not agree with that.

You can buy a much better all round vehicle in a diesel BMW X5 (even in 'twin turbo' guise) that gives you both economy and power - and I would wager this is superior to the RX Hybrid. The only case for the hybrid that I can see is the London Congestion Charge or for business users, BIK - even on the BIK the X5 pushes the Hybrid close.

Some people prefer BMWs, others prefer Land Rovers, and others prefer Lexus. Personally I have never been drawn to BMWs; at the end of the day, we all have to accept that some things are a matter of personal choice above all else.

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The problem isn't the BMW for me, it's the diesel part. Diesels are disgusting so it's only worth comparing to what a petrol X5 can achieve - on paper the RX400h should be a lot better but I don't know what the case is in practice.

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The problem isn't the BMW for me, it's the diesel part. Diesels are disgusting...

Sorry mate, but that is an ill informed opinnion - diesel may not be the fuel of the future - but it has come a LONG way since the late early 80s.

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Sorry mate, but that is an ill informed opinnion - diesel may not be the fuel of the future - but it has come a LONG way since the late early 80s.

May have come a long way, but not far enough. They are disgusting, the black rubbish that comes out of the back isn't some kind of perfume, it's c**p. The particulates and other nasties in diesel fumes are much worse than the CO2 that comes out of a petrol exhaust, but for some reason the whole world seems to be hung up on CO2.

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Sorry mate, but that is an ill informed opinnion - diesel may not be the fuel of the future - but it has come a LONG way since the late early 80s.

May have come a long way, but not far enough. They are disgusting, the black rubbish that comes out of the back isn't some kind of perfume, it's c**p. The particulates and other nasties in diesel fumes are much worse than the CO2 that comes out of a petrol exhaust, but for some reason the whole world seems to be hung up on CO2.

Thats pure guff mate. The most modern diesels (like the one in my E90) are clean and green - especially with the advent of DPFs its made things cleaner (note: not necessarily easier ;) ) - and you have to look at the corresponding BIK rates as well the RFL rates that make them attractive.

I like the way diesels drive and thats why I have one. Fuel economy is secondary - fun is primary. You really got to get out of your shell and try a decent modern diesel - and by this I do not mean the the [weak] offering from Lexus; but a proper diesel...but then if people like you stick with petrol, leaves more diesel for people like me ;)

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It's not guff mate, diesels are a lot cleaner than they used to be, but there is still a lot of rubbish that comes out of the back of them.

To be honest, the BMW diesels are the only ones I'd ever consider if I had to as their specs are incredible. But you can't honestly say that it would be more fun to drive a 335d than it would be to drive a 335i............

There's no contest, and that's because a diesel car can never provide the experience that a petrol can, yes it provides the power, but not in a way that makes it enjoyable (I'm with the racing commentators who complain about the diesel touring cars, they just don't sound like racing cars so in some ways there's no point)

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It's not guff mate, diesels are a lot cleaner than they used to be, but there is still a lot of rubbish that comes out of the back of them.

To be honest, the BMW diesels are the only ones I'd ever consider if I had to as their specs are incredible. But you can't honestly say that it would be more fun to drive a 335d than it would be to drive a 335i............

There's no contest, and that's because a diesel car can never provide the experience that a petrol can, yes it provides the power, but not in a way that makes it enjoyable (I'm with the racing commentators who complain about the diesel touring cars, they just don't sound like racing cars so in some ways there's no point)

Having had three straight petrol engined vehicles (both Lexus and BMW) I fancied a change - hence my choice to go diesel this time round. I like the low down grunt and power delivery of the vehicle and the way it drives overall. I have been in the position of choosing 330i vs. 330d and this time opted 330d.

The 335i vs. 335d question is totally different because both have twin turbo engines and the 335i delivers power like a diesel with low down torque and power. I'm sure I would opt for the 335i, but right now, I'm on a diesel bender so the 335d would be my choice. I can see your POV isn't prejudiced against diesel just because it is a diesel...just perhaps out of simple preference.

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You've actually made a valid point there, and that's that the comparison is always made between normally aspirated petrols and turbocharged diesels.

As soon as you compare like with like (335i vs 335d) it's falls in favour of the petrol engine again. Yes there are economy benefits from the diesel, and if you are a company car user and do heavy miles, the diesels are always going to make more sense, but I think for most enthusiasts the petrol 335i would always win.

I think that's where hybrids are letting themselves down, as it's too easy to end up being compared to diesels. My personal problem with the hybrids is that they don't even seem to be making enough of an improvement on some equivalent petrol engines.

Compare the specs of a 530i and the GS450h, and they are far too similar. Obviously I've not driven either so I'm not sure if the power delivery may be quite different (I'd imagine the instant torque of the electric motors must get the GS off the line pretty well) but overall it's not a lot faster, it's not a lot more economical, and the CO2 emissions are pretty similar too.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Sorry mate, but that is an ill informed opinnion - diesel may not be the fuel of the future - but it has come a LONG way since the late early 80s.

May have come a long way, but not far enough. They are disgusting, the black rubbish that comes out of the back isn't some kind of perfume, it's c**p. The particulates and other nasties in diesel fumes are much worse than the CO2 that comes out of a petrol exhaust, but for some reason the whole world seems to be hung up on CO2.

My X635D produces NO black smoke at all and gives between 30/36MPG, it drives like a sports car also.

The RX450h must be about better economy because thats one of the main talking points.

Particulates from diesel engines are a thing of the past and they perform much better than the RX400h by a mile.

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Sorry mate, but that is an ill informed opinnion - diesel may not be the fuel of the future - but it has come a LONG way since the late early 80s.

May have come a long way, but not far enough. They are disgusting, the black rubbish that comes out of the back isn't some kind of perfume, it's c**p. The particulates and other nasties in diesel fumes are much worse than the CO2 that comes out of a petrol exhaust, but for some reason the whole world seems to be hung up on CO2.

My X635D produces NO black smoke at all and gives between 30/36MPG, it drives like a sports car also.

The RX450h must be about better economy because thats one of the main talking points.

Particulates from diesel engines are a thing of the past and they perform much better than the RX400h by a mile.

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my 2P for all its worth. Driven a new RX450H and its a truelky awesome car. At the same time drove the x5 3.0d and ml 3.0d. Both good cars however on the trip we found the RX to be giving the best fuel out of all 3 in real life conditions. fuel economy figures in brochures are released by government and tested in an isolated environment.

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my 2P for all its worth. Driven a new RX450H and its a truelky awesome car. At the same time drove the x5 3.0d and ml 3.0d. Both good cars however on the trip we found the RX to be giving the best fuel out of all 3 in real life conditions. fuel economy figures in brochures are released by government and tested in an isolated environment.
So Alex just what sort of economy were you getting then?. :whistling:

Best I got from the X53.0D was 30MPG nursing it, so anythings better than that.

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Sorry mate, but that is an ill informed opinnion - diesel may not be the fuel of the future - but it has come a LONG way since the late early 80s.

May have come a long way, but not far enough. They are disgusting, the black rubbish that comes out of the back isn't some kind of perfume, it's c**p. The particulates and other nasties in diesel fumes are much worse than the CO2 that comes out of a petrol exhaust, but for some reason the whole world seems to be hung up on CO2.

My X635D produces NO black smoke at all and gives between 30/36MPG, it drives like a sports car also.

The RX450h must be about better economy because thats one of the main talking points.

Particulates from diesel engines are a thing of the past and they perform much better than the RX400h by a mile.

BMW seem to have some truly awsome diesel technology and I'm glad you find your X6 so good.

However,not all diesel cars/lorries/buses are as good as your X6 and as Parthiban says diesel exhaust fumes in most cases are vile,particulate laden and noxious smelling.

I for one prefer not to drive diesels.

However,I would not discount them altogether,especially in modern prestige guise.

Would you recommend the X6?Is it practical enough for occasional 4 occupants and occasional loading in the boot(most of the time it is just 2 or 3 of us in the car,but occasionally find I need to load up with daughter's uni stuff)?

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Sorry mate, but that is an ill informed opinnion - diesel may not be the fuel of the future - but it has come a LONG way since the late early 80s.

May have come a long way, but not far enough. They are disgusting, the black rubbish that comes out of the back isn't some kind of perfume, it's c**p. The particulates and other nasties in diesel fumes are much worse than the CO2 that comes out of a petrol exhaust, but for some reason the whole world seems to be hung up on CO2.

My X635D produces NO black smoke at all and gives between 30/36MPG, it drives like a sports car also.

The RX450h must be about better economy because thats one of the main talking points.

Particulates from diesel engines are a thing of the past and they perform much better than the RX400h by a mile.

BMW seem to have some truly awsome diesel technology and I'm glad you find your X6 so good.

However,not all diesel cars/lorries/buses are as good as your X6 and as Parthiban says diesel exhaust fumes in most cases are vile,particulate laden and noxious smelling.

I for one prefer not to drive diesels.

However,I would not discount them altogether,especially in modern prestige guise.

Would you recommend the X6?Is it practical enough for occasional 4 occupants and occasional loading in the boot(most of the time it is just 2 or 3 of us in the car,but occasionally find I need to load up with daughter's uni stuff)?

My daughter is going back to Uni today fully loaded boot, carries 4 people with ease, boot space is large if you remove the stupid load cover.

The X6 is a bit of a marmite car really, some love it some hate it, I enjoy touring in it and it returns 35MPG touring, hard driving takes it down to 29MPG minimum and thats it's lowest to date.

Funny thing BMW have the highest rateing for technology in cars, I thought Lexus would be up there but there are not in the top 10.

See here; http://www.isuppli.com/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=20073

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