You will love to read this gossip about IS300 - by the way i

[George]

I was at Lexus Showroom in Stockholm to leave my IS200 for service.

I had a very interesting talk with one of the mechanics there, mano a mano, eye to eye.

I asked about the IS300 sales, knowing that it's relatively new to Europe. And my suscpicions came true. He confirmed that the IS300 is selling very poorly in all of Europe. Almost to the point of being a total fiasco.

So I asked why and he said that the price of 37000 EURO was too high it seems and the price gap was too big between the IS200 and IS300 (with not enough difference). And too close to the GS300. Which is an altogether full grown car for 39000 EURO.

And thats not all, apparently Lexus in Italy has altogether refused to sell the IS300 because they believe too few could be sold due to the high price set by Tokyo.

And whats more they will now slash prices in Sweden on the IS300 by 2500 EURO to 34000 EURO to try and get sales going.

I always felt that the price was too steap for the IS300 in Europe and don't really see how Toyota expected us to pay 6000 EURO more than the Yanks for the same car which retails for 32000 USD in the US.

I also sat in an IS300 and an IS300 SportCross wagon at the showroom. And frankly I was disappointed. The full leather and Navi felt more luxurious but there was a new type of cloth on the door sides (mine is perforated alcantara) which felt slack and like a used towel. And the new speaker fronts in the side doors with the chrome around them didn't look more exclusive.

The IS300 SportCroos boot is the same size as the IS200, it just plays tricks on your eyes with it's differnt rear.

I admit that I used to be a little ****** that I couldn't have the IS300 but not anymore. The IS200 is on the other hand worth every penny.

If you really want an IS300 buy it 2:nd hand and expect prices to fall steap because the price was too high to start. The first owner will pay his share instead.

Lexus Europe..."You played yourself..."

Comments...

[Edited on 25-3-2002 by George]

[Richie]

The price gap to the GS is just to small.

[lexuscol]

Don't knock what you haven't got, there is a terrific difference betweenthe is200 and 300 and in my opinion worth every pound spent.

I have had 3 is200s and they do not compare, even the build quality is different on the 300.

just that bit better, thats my two penneth

[LavaIS]

You might believe that pricegap is big, but in Norway the gap is 33.000 EURO between IS200 and IS300. This is mostly due to Norwegian tax-policy (wich includes taxes based on BHP, engine volume and weight of the car).

Price for IS200: 45.000 EURO

Price for IS300: 78.000 EURO

Doesn't make it easier to motivate the IS300...

Rgds,

LavaIS

[George]

lexuscol:

Just how would the build quality be differnet betwwen the IS200 and IS300 ?

I'm not buying that at all !

They use exacly the same parts and factory lines in the same factory at the Kanto autoworks in Japan. The only differnece is the engines and the price of course.

That difference you feel isn't real. It may be something one would tell oneself to convice oneself that one had made a good deal buying the IS300. Nothing personal.

[George]

LavaIS:

Hej LavaIS ! Hur är läget i Norge ?

78,000 EURO for an IS300 in Norway, thats the rip of the century. That would get me a BMW M3 and an IS200 in Sweden.

[LavaIS]

Hi George!

Ikke så ille, med unntak av bilprisene....

(Not so bad, except the car prices...)

Well, a BMW M3 Coupe, thats 124.000 EURO in Norway, so the prices are not Lexus's fault. Don't you even dare telling me what I'll get for those money...

Rgds,

LavaIS

[George]

LavaIS:

Du får en Ferrari F360 för de pengarna.

Ni skulle ha haft billigare bilar än oss om era oljepengar kommit er till godo och inte sparats av er regering. Synd... och världens bästa vägar borde ni också ha.

Hälsningar: George från Stockholm

[Edited on 26-3-2002 by George]

[LavaIS]

George:

Ja hadde det bare vært så vel. Verken bilpriser eller veier er mye å skryte av

Lurer virkelig på hvor alle pengene blir av. Om oljefondet er alt som er til overs, stakkars oss når oljen er brukt opp....

Vennlig hilsen,

LavaIS fra Oslo (nesten)

[Steve]

ouchh... i dont have a translater on the site!

[blue wax]

go for the full grown at that price

a gs300 yezzzzzz

[LavaIS]

Sorry for the Scandinavian internal conversation... - just a litle one about how the Norwegian oil-money are getting the Norwegians such nice cheap cars....(Yeah - right!)

GS300, yes! - That's about 96.000 EURO

[Leexus]

LavaIS

What rims are these?

[javadude]

You'd have thought that Lexus would realise they need a manual version of the IS300 to sell it here. When will they wake up?

[LavaIS]

The rims are Antera 163, 8x18, ET 38.

[weltmeister]

In my post is200 vs is300 I also would say that hte is 200 is a better car even the 2000 model cause in my perspective the details are more clearly seen. I mean the little things making the is 200 2000 a special car. The love to the details which I am missing like the gear knob which is now in leather but however i miss the chrome ball and the methal pedals...

Does the GS drive better than the is 300 ????

Anyone tried yet ? Maybe I should try and I will give a post...

Mike

[Steve]

A GS will be a little heavier than the IS300.. but then again the GS is a sporty cruiser.. alot more refined than the IS300.

The question is does the GS share the same engine as the IS300?

I prefer the GS over the IS as it is a more grown up car.

Richie will know alot about the GS!

[John Lee]

The question is does the GS share the same engine as the IS300?

yes, both use the 2JZ-GE engine.

But interestingly, the HP and torque ratings r slightly different:

For GS300:

Maximum output

216 bhp (161 kW) @ 5800 rpm

Maximum torque

217 lb/ft (294 Nm) @ 3800 rpm

For IS300:

Maximum output

211 bhp (157 kW) @ 5800 rpm

Maximum torque

212 lb/ft (288 Nm) @ 3800 rpm

Looks like the engine in IS300 was 'down-tuned'. I could not figure out why as both uses the same transmission (5-spped tiptronic style).

Anyone like to shed some light ? :)

[LavaIS]

From what I've heard, the diffence in BHP is mainly due to different exhaust.

I've tested both the IS300 and the GS300 earlier this year. This was on icy road, and both cars had soft studless wintertyres.

The GS was more comfortable, but the handlig could not match the IS. On very icy road I felt kind of insecure with the GS, the response from the ground was not as good as the IS. The stability-control came on pretty quick again after I tested it off.... I was kind of disappointed. But when knowing how big difference summer and winter tyres makes on the IS, I'm not sure this can be directly transferred to summer condition.

The IS300 felt more agile, not quite as an 200, but better than the GS. Soundproofing seemed more or less like the GS, maybe a little more roadnoise, but less vindnoise. Quieter than the 200 though. The IS300 had both stability-control and traction-control, but I only managed to turn off the traction-control. That ruined some of the pleasure on a little snowy road....

With a little reservation (since I've never tested it), I'd go for a 6-speed manual IS200 SuperCharger for the handlig and performance. And at least here i Norway, I'd go for the 4wd RX300 as the practical comfortable choice. On German Autobahn though, the GS would probably be the right...

[Steve]

The question is does the GS share the same engine as the IS300?

yes, both use the 2JZ-GE engine.

But interestingly, the HP and torque ratings r slightly different:

For GS300:

Maximum output

216 bhp (161 kW) @ 5800 rpm

Maximum torque

217 lb/ft (294 Nm) @ 3800 rpm

For IS300:

Maximum output

211 bhp (157 kW) @ 5800 rpm

Maximum torque

212 lb/ft (288 Nm) @ 3800 rpm

Looks like the engine in IS300 was 'down-tuned'. I could not figure out why as both uses the same transmission (5-spped tiptronic style).

Anyone like to shed some light ? :)

Did they change the engine in the GS300 as Mind shares the same engine and the revision 1 and that has a 3ZV FE engine the same as mine.

Does anyine know any other toyotas or Lexus that has the 3ZV FE engine?

[Steve]

Talking of Engines I found this

Aristo

97 **ZS-14* 2JZ-GTE, 2JZ-GE, 1UZ-FE

Avalon

97 1MZ-FE

Camry (US, EU), Vista (JP)

83-86 US 2S-E

86 JP 3S-GELU, 2S-ELU, 1S-iLU, 2C-TL

87-90 US 3S-FE

89-90 US 2VZ-FE

98-99 Vista: 3S-FSE, 3S-FE, 1ZZ-FE

99 Camry (JP): 5S-FE (SXV25/4WD, SXV20/FWD), 1MZ-FE (MCV20/FWD)

Carina

71-78 FI TA12/TA14 2T

78-81 FI TA40 2T

82-84 FI TA60/CA60 2T, 3T, 1C

82-82.5 JP RA6*/TA6*/SA6*/AA6* 18R-GEU, 2T-GEU, 3T-EU, 1S-U, 3A-U

82.5-85 JP TA6*/AA6*/SA6* 3T-GTEU, 4A-GE, 1S-U, 3A-U

86 JP station wagon only 4A-GE, 1S-U, 3A-U

Carina II (FWD)

86 JP 3S-GELU, 4A-GELU, 1S-ELU, 1S-iLU, 4A-ELU, 4A-LU, 3A-LU, 2C-L

88- EU 3S-GE, 3S-FE, 4A-FE

92 *T19* 3S-GE, 3S-FE, 5E-FE

95 FI 3S-FE, 4A-FE

95 JP 3S-GE, 3S-FE, 4S-FE

98 4A-GE20v, 7A-FE, 5A-FE, 3S-FE, 2C-T

99 4A-GE20v, 7A-FE, 5A-FE, 3S-FE (4WD), 3C-TE (4WD/FWD)

Celica

RWD:

71 US ST 8R-C

72-74 US ST 18R-C

74 US GT 18R-C

72-74 FI LT, ST 2T*

75 US 20R

74-76 FI LT, ST 2T*

76 FI RA23 18R

76-77 US 20R

77 AU RA28 18R-G

76-77 FI 18R

78 CA GT 20R

78-81 US GT Coupe & Liftback 22R

78-81 JP TA41 (ET/LT/ST/XT) 12T-U [ET coupe only]

TA42 (LT/ST/XT/SE) 3T-U

RA40 (ST/XT/SE) 18R-U

TA40 (GT/GTV) 2T-GEU

RA40 (GT/GTV) 18R-GU

78-81 UK/EU TA40 (ST) 2T-B [coupe]

RA40 (ST/XT) 18R [liftback]

RA40 (GT) 18R-G [liftback]

78-80 US RA42 (ST) 20R [coupe]

RA42 (GT) 20R

81 US RA43 (ST) 22R [coupe]

RA44 (GT) 22R

81.7-83.8 JP RA63 (GT) 18R-G

81.7-83.8 JP TA61 (GT, GT Rally) 2T-GEU

81.7-83.8 JP TA63 (ST-EFI, SX) 3T-EU

81.7-84.12 JP SA60 (SV, ST, SX) 1S-U (SX 83.8-85.7)

81.7-85.7 JP AA6* 3A-U

82.10-85.7 JP TA64? (GT-T, GT-TR) 3T-GTEU

83.8-84.12 JP AA63? (GT, GT-R) 4A-GEU

85.1-85.7 JP SA6* (GT, GT-R) 3S-GELU

85.1-85.7 JP AA63? (GT) 4A-GELU

85.1-85.7 JP SA6* (SX, SV, ST) 1S-iLU

82-85 EU TA60 (ST) 2T-B

EU RA61 (XT) 21R

EU AA63? (GT) 4A-GE [liftback]

82-85 ?EU RA63 18R-G*

82 US RA63 (ST) 22R [coupe] [automatic: 22R-EC]

RA64 (GT, GT-S) 22R-EC [GT-S liftback]

82.8-83.8 US 22R-EC, except manual ST 22R

83.8-85 US 22R-EC

82.2-85 UK RA61 (ST, XT) 21R

84.8- RA65K (GT-S convertible)

FWD:

86 US ST ST16* 2S-E, 3S-FE

86 JP 3S-GELU, 4A-GELU, 2S-ELU, 4A-ELU, 1S-iLU

87-90 US ST 3S-FE

86-89 US GTS ST16* 3S-GE

92 US GTS ST18* 5S-FE

95 JP, FI ST20* 3S-GE, 3S-FE

98 JP ST20* 3S-GE (200hp), 3S-FE ; Convertible: 3S-GE (16v 180hp)

88-96+ all All-trac 3S-GTE

Celica Camry

82 JP 18R-GEU, 21R-U, 3T-EU, 13T-U, 12T-U

Celica Supra

79- JP MA45 (2000 L/S/G)

79-80 JP MA46 (2600 S/G) 4M-E

79- US MA47 (2600) 4M-E

80.8- JP 2800 G 5M-EU

81- US 2800 5M-E

82-84 JP M-TEU, 5M-GE

85-86 JP 6M-GEU, 5M-GEU, M-TEU, 1G-GEU, 1G-EU

82-85.12 JP MA61 (2800 GT) 5M-GEU

82.2-85.12 JP (2000 S-turbo, G-turbo) M-TEU

82-85.12 JP GA61 (2000L, S, G) 1G-EU (L 82 only)

82.8-85.12 JP (2000 Twin Cam 24 GT) 1G-GEU

82-85.12 US MA67 (Supra, Supra L) 5M-GE

82.8-85.12 UK MA61 (Supra) 5M-GE

84-86 FI MA61 (Supra) 5M-GE (170hp, no cat)

Celsior

92 UCF10 1UZ-FE

95-97 UZF20 1UZ-FE

Century

85-86 5V-EU

97 VG40 5V-EU

Corolla

66-70 FI KE10,15,16 K

69-75 FI KE11,17,18,20,25 3K

75-79 FI KE20,30,35,36 3K-H

77-78 FI TE51 2T

76-79 FI ? 2T-C, 2T-B, 2T-GE

71-79 US 2T-C

77-79 US 3K-C, 2T-C

80-84 FI KE70, CE70 4K, 1C

80-83 FI TE71 2T

80-82 US TE72,73,75 3T-C

83-84 US 4A-C, 4A-LC

83- FI AE80, AE8* 4A-GE, 4A-C, 4A-LC2A-L, 1C-L

84- FI AE82 4A-L

85 FI EE80 2E

87-90 FI AE** 4A-GEC, 4A-GELC

88-90 FI AE** 4A-F

88- FI AE92 4A-GE

89-90 FI AE** 4A-FE

90- FI AE92 4A-FE

85-86 4A-C, 4A-LC, 4A-GE

86 JP Levin, Sprinter Trueno 4A-GELU, 4A-U, 3A-U

86 JP 4A-GELU, ..., 1C-L

85-89 FX-16 4A-GE

87 4A-LC, 4A-GEC, 4A-GELC

88 4A-LC, 4A-GEC, 4A-GELC, 4A-F

88-90 FI/JP GT Coupe only 4A-GZE

89-90 4A-GEC, 4A-GELC, 4A-F, 4A-FE

84-89 GTS 4A-GE

90 JP 1C

95 JP Levin, Sprinter Trueno 4A-GE(VVT 20V), 4A-FE, 5A-FE

98 JP *E10* Corolla Sedan, Corolla Levin, Sprinter Marino 4A-GE (165hp), 4A-FE, 5A-FE

Sprinter 4A-GE (165hp), 4A-FE, 5A-FE, 4E-FE, 3C-E

Corsa 5A-FE, 4E-FE

Corolla II 5E-FE, 4E-FE

Corona

69 RT72

70-71 Mark I (RT81) M

73-77 Mark II 2M, M

74 US 18R-C

75-80 US 20R

80-81 FI 3T

82 JP 18R-GEU, 21R-U, 3T-EU, 13T-U, 12T-U

82.5-85 JP 3T-GTEU, 4A-GE, 1S-U, 3A-U

Corona (FWD)

86 JP 3S-GELU, 4A-GELU, 2S-ELU, 4A-ELU, 1S-iLU

95 JP 3S-GE, 3S-FE, 4S-FE

98 *T21* 3S-FSE, 7A-FE, 4A-FE, 3C-TE

99 *T21* 3S-FSE (ST210), 3S-FE (ST215, 4WD), 7A-FE (AT211), 4A-FE (AT210), 3C-TE (CT216/4WD, CT211/FWD)

Cressida (US, FI)/Mark II and Chaser/Cresta (JP)

72 US Mark II 4M, 2M

73-76 US Mark II 4M

77-79 US Cressida 4M

80 US Cressida 4M-E

81-82 US Cressida 5M-E

82-85 FI Cressida RX60 21R, 2L-T, L

82 JP M-TEU, 1G-EU, 13T-U

82/3-88 US Cressida 5M-GE

86 JP 1G-GTEU, 5M-GEU, 1G-GEU, 1G-EU, 21R-U, 1S-U,

98 1JZ-GTE, 2JZ-GE, 1JZ-GE, 1G-FE, 2L-T

99 Cresta: 1JZ-GTE (same as GE?), 2JZ-GE (RWD, ECTS-i), 1JZ-GE (4WD

5 or 6spd/RWD ECTS-i), 1G-FE (4WD/RWD, 6spd?) (all VVT-i)

2L-T, 2L

89-90 US Cressida 7M-GE

Crown

65-66 FI MS4* M

66 US MS4* 2M, M

67-70 FI *S5* 2M, 5R

67-71 US MS5* 2M, M

71-72 FI *S6* 2M, 5R

72- FI *S6* 4M, 5R

72-74 FI MS6* 4M

75-78 FI MS8* 4M

79-82 FI *S11* 5M-E, L

82 JP *S11* 5M-GE, M-TEU, 1G-EU, M-U, L

83 FI *S12* 5M-E, 2L-T

84-86 FI *S12* 5M-GE, 2L-T

85 JP *S12* 5M-GEU, M-TEU, 1G-GEU, 1G-EU, 2L, 2L-TE

86 JP *S12* 6M-GEU, 1G-GZEU, 1G-GEU, 1G-EU

88-91 *S13* 1JZ-GTE, 1UZ-FE

91-95 *S14* 1JZ-GE, 2JZ-GE, 1UZ-FE, 2L-THE

Curren

95 JP 3S-GE, 3S-FE, 4S-FE

Cynos

97 JP 5E-FHE, 4E-FE

Gracia

98 1MZ-FE, 5S-FE

MR2

86 JP 4A-GELU

86 JP AW10 3A-LU

85-89 US AW11 4A-GELC

85-89 other 4A-GE

88-89 4A-GZE

91-92 FI 3S-GE

91-95 US 3S-GTE, 5S-FE

91-95+ other 3S-GTE, 3S-GE

[there is no 1990 model, both 1989 and 1991 model were sold during that year]

Paseo

? 5E-FE

Scepter

95 JP 3VZ-FE, 5S-FE

Sera

95 JP 5E-FHE

Soarer

81-82 JP *Z1* M-GE, M-TEU, 1G-EU

82-84 *Z1* 1G-GE, M-TE

85 JP *Z1* 6M-GEU, M-TEU, 1G-GEU, 1G-EU

86 JP *Z2* 7M-GTEU, 7M-GEU, 1G-GTEU, 1G-GEU, 1G-EU

86-91 *Z2*

91-95 *Z3*

95 *Z3* 1JZ-GTE, 2JZ-GE, 1UZ-FE

98 *Z3* Japan 1JZ-GTE, 2JZ-GE

98 *Z3* US, Europe 1UZ-FE, 2JZ-GE

Starlet

78- FI 2K

79-82 FI 4K*, 3K*

81-82 4K-C

83-84 4K-E

84-87 FI 2E

85-88 FI ? (1.3)

89- JP 4E-F, 2E-E, 4E-FE, 4E-FTE, 1N

89-96 *P8*

97 JP *P9* 4E-FE, 1N

99 (Platz): 2NZ-FE (NCP16/4WD, NCP12/FWD), 1SZ-FE (SCP11/FWD)

Supra

86-92 MA7* 7M-GTE, 7M-GE

86 JP MA7*, GA7* 7M-GTEU, 7M-GEU, 1G-GTEU, 1G-GEU, 1G-EU

JP JZA7* 1JZ-GTEU

93 JZA8*, GA8* 1JZ-GTEU, 1G-GTEU, 1G-GEU

93.5-98+ JZA8* 2JZ-GTE, 2JZ-GE

Tercel

80-82 US 1A, (3A, 3A-C ???)

83-86 US 3A, 3A-C

86 JP 3A-SU, 3A-U, 2A-U

87-88 US 3A-C

89-90 US 3E

86-90 JP 2E-LU, 3E-E, 3E-TE, 1N-T

[LavaIS]

I might have misread you:

Quote:

____________________________________

Did they change the engine in the GS300 as Mind shares the same engine and the revision 1 and that has a 3ZV FE engine the same as mine.

____________________________________

But as far as i know, the ES and the GS are not sharing engines. Both version 1 and 2 of the GS uses I6 engines, and the ES uses V6. The engine codes however, I'm not sure of.

[Steve]

hmm well thats gonna be interesting as i bought some parts the other day and when we matched the engine in the book it said that the engine codes where the same and that the ES shared. Now i am wondering if I have the correct parts for when i service the car.

I will have to go to the parts store and question it.

Cheers

[LavaIS]

At mobile.de I found a 95 GS300, version 1. At least this car has a Inline6. I believe the ES is a fwd (with E-W mounted V6), while the GS is rwd (with N-S mounted I6).

If you click at the pictures, one of them shows the engine:

http://www.mobile.de/cgi-bin/search.pl?Cou...rmColor=%2e%2e%

2ebeliebig&FormDate=0&FormDurchmesser=0&FormEZ=1992%2d&FormKilometer=%2d&FormLand=%2e&FormMake=26&FormModel= gs&FormPLZ=&FormPower=%2d&FormPrice=%2d&FormSort=0&Page=0&SearchCat=bereich%3dpkw%26sprache%3d1&bereich=

pkw&sprache=1&x=37&y=3]

[Edited on 27-3-2002 by LavaIS]

[Steve]

I forgot all about that the GS is RWD.. i should have noted that when i got the parts