Steering Wobble/brakes/discs/ball Joints Etc Etc

[osteo66]

I've suffered the steering wobble with my GS over the years and after stripping the calipers and overhauling and most recently replacing my NSF caliper I decided to experiment. I know my discs are worn but have not been able to implicate the ball joints, suspension bushes or tie rods, one thing that always seemed worn to me was the upper caliper slider pin in it's housing.

The workshop manual I've used shows a small rubber o-ring type thing that should go on to the pin, and in a kit from Brakes International (great guys...) there is a small ring that looks as if it should fit. However the pin is not undercut as is the lower one to accept the ring and I've not been able to sort out how to fit it so have always left it out. When I renewed all my pins and relevant bushings it made a noticable difference in the clunks and creaks that come from my brakes, but the caliper can still be rocked my hand and there is a gentle clunk from the upper pin area.

So......I decided to fit lower pins with new bushes into the upper as well as the lower positions on both calipers. They were a tighter fit than the lowers but still slid and removed completely the rocking by hand. A gentle road test and there is no noise whatsoever from the front brakes now on turning and braking. I jacked the car up afterwards and the wheels turned freely with no binding so I am confident that all the pins are sliding and not causing problems.

Will be interesting to see how things pan out over the next few weeks as I keep an eye on them....I am now more of the opinion that the upper pins are a cause of some of the noise we hear from our cars and that, rather than do what I've done which may be non-standard and therefore at your own risk, perhaps replace the caliper pins, bushings AND caliper mounting plate the bores of which may become worn over the years of use.

[Patch234]

Hi osteo66,

Interesting read that, thanks.

I did notice that you said the discs were worn though? Have these been replaced while you were re-furbing the caliper? I replaced the discs and pads on my Mk1 about two months ago and this removed the steering wheel wobble on this one completely. Having now done this on both the mk1 & mk2, that both suffering from the dreaded wobble. I am pretty satisfied that the issue is resolved for now!

It is weird that the wobble/clunking is such a common problem and has been for a number of years, yet it seems, no-one, has a definitive answer, how strange?

Phil

[osteo66]

Hi osteo66,

Interesting read that, thanks.

I did notice that you said the discs were worn though? Have these been replaced while you were re-furbing the caliper? I replaced the discs and pads on my Mk1 about two months ago and this removed the steering wheel wobble on this one completely. Having now done this on both the mk1 & mk2, that both suffering from the dreaded wobble. I am pretty satisfied that the issue is resolved for now!

It is weird that the wobble/clunking is such a common problem and has been for a number of years, yet it seems, no-one, has a definitive answer, how strange?

Phil

Hi Phil,

I'm going to replace the discs at some point when the pads are due. My situation was more caliper related than disc as it turned out although they are involved I'm sure. It does seem odd that the cars react in this way, however relatively there are a lot of areas that could be marginally worn or out of spec and cause slack in the whole system hence it being difficult to narrow down. It's not as if the GS suspension is overly complicated and the brakes are a bog standard design.

Should be interesting to see what happens as the weeks roll on,

Dave.

[TigerFish]

I replaced the slide pins (as per this tutorial I did -----> click) on my front calipers a while back. I didn't replace all four with the pins that hold the rubber ring but haven't had any noises from the brakes. As you mention, it does sounds like it could be the extent of corrosion on the caliper mounting bracket that the pins slide into that makes the difference for the rubber ring or not. They are not a cheap part to replace mind you.

[Patch234]

OK - Here's an update on my Mk2 wheel wobble.......

It's back! F$%c%^&$££@$$%oles!!!

Despite having the disks and pads very recently replaced, then deciding that the pads are producing way too much dust - to be replaced with Green stuff pads, more expense!

Everything for the past week has been spot on until now!

Anyway, what's the problem now? Well went to the Prescott Hill Climb today....at first all was fine, then gets onto the M5 and the steering wheel starts to wobble badly, moving up and down about an inch or so very quickly, it was like a wheel was going to fall off or something!

Stopped on hard shoulder, checked wheels, fine? Driver side front was slightly warmer than the other side though

Continued, but get over 60 and the steering wheel wobbles

Listening with the window down, there is a click, click noise that stops when you apply the brakes. Coming from drivers side front wheel

Saw the Hill Climb, great and a lovely day for it too

Get home, wheel off, caliper off, break pads out, all OK!

Noticed that one of the pistons on the twin pot was sticking out further than the other though the pressure points on the back of the pad looked the same for both. Used retractor tool, would not go in the same as the other, probably out more by 2mm or so.

Placed in pads, put caliper back on, went for a test drive.

For 20 minutes everything was fine, until I went around a right hander at about 50 and the steering wheel started to wobble, onto M5, starts all over again! And the noise comes back!

So now what - OK, change the pins I suppose?

Any other suggestions?

Cheers guys

[TigerFish]

I'd say it was a sticking piston. If you have taken the caliper off, checking the slide pins still move is simple enough. Try greasing the pistons before retracting them to see if it helps. It normally does, but not for long generally. Only a replacement caliper or a refurb kit will do a long term fix on it.

[osteo66]

I'd agree with Tigerfish. This was very similar to mine and by moving the piston in and out a few times it helped delay the overhaul, after doing one piston I took the easy way and exchanged the whole caliper - huge difference. You may find that the dust boot on the sticky piston is split which hastens the sticking by allowing dirt into and around the seal. Unfortunately very common on GS's.

Dave

OK - Here's an update on my Mk2 wheel wobble.......

It's back! F$%c%^&$££@$$%oles!!!

Despite having the disks and pads very recently replaced, then deciding that the pads are producing way too much dust - to be replaced with Green stuff pads, more expense!

Everything for the past week has been spot on until now!

Anyway, what's the problem now? Well went to the Prescott Hill Climb today....at first all was fine, then gets onto the M5 and the steering wheel starts to wobble badly, moving up and down about an inch or so very quickly, it was like a wheel was going to fall off or something!

Stopped on hard shoulder, checked wheels, fine? Driver side front was slightly warmer than the other side though

Continued, but get over 60 and the steering wheel wobbles

Listening with the window down, there is a click, click noise that stops when you apply the brakes. Coming from drivers side front wheel

Saw the Hill Climb, great and a lovely day for it too

Get home, wheel off, caliper off, break pads out, all OK!

Noticed that one of the pistons on the twin pot was sticking out further than the other though the pressure points on the back of the pad looked the same for both. Used retractor tool, would not go in the same as the other, probably out more by 2mm or so.

Placed in pads, put caliper back on, went for a test drive.

For 20 minutes everything was fine, until I went around a right hander at about 50 and the steering wheel started to wobble, onto M5, starts all over again! And the noise comes back!

So now what - OK, change the pins I suppose?

Any other suggestions?

Cheers guys

[Patch234]

Cheers guy's,

I have got a quote to have the two front calipers overhauled for £149.00. This includes new pistons, seals and rubbers. Will take 4-5 days before I get them back so I am aiming to get them in the day after the coming bank holiday.

I was searching the 'scooby' forum and I found that some of these guy's had also suffered similar problems that (in some cases) was solved by having the calipers re-furbed.

Once again, I will keep you informed of progress.

Phil :)

[Patch234]

Upon investigation on the Mk2 wobble problem I have once again cured it - I think (all be it for the short term - for now).

Thanks to TigerFish & Osteo. Taking off the caliper (the pistons are pretty much fully retracted due to the new pads), I supported the caliper and pressed the brake pedal four or five times. Only one piston came out. I retracted that and then used the retractors to block the one that came out and pressed the break pedal again. This time the other one came out quite a distance.

Trouble was it proved very difficult to push back in. I eventually did this, using the retractors and my 2 tonne jack handle for leverage, and repeated the procedure 4 times. Eventually the sticky piston was easy to retract by hand (using the retractors - without leverage).

I also noticed that the new disc was warped!!! With the wheels off, I tightened all the wheel nuts to hold the disc in place and spun the wheel, there was a fair bit of movement to the disc! Looks like another new set of discs for me then.

The wheel wobble has now gone, but I think will replace the discs, yet again, this time with Mintex. I will also get the calipers re-furbed at some point in the future.

Cheers guys,

Phil

[Patch234]

Update:

Wheel wobble returned yesterday - with vengeance - and there has been a tinkety tink noise coming from the drivers side wheel (like a pad knocking) for a while now. Investigated last night, the inside pad has been knocked about (losing its back coating where the caliper piston sits).

Wheel off and nuts done up to hold the disc also reveals that the disc (only one month or so old) has a slight wobble to it. The piston, nearest the front, is proving to be a bugger to retract once again. Even with the bleed nipple loosened.

Luckily my new Mintex pads and discs arrived this morning and a new (fully refurbed) caliper will arrive tomorrow. So this weekend, it all gets replaced (AGAIN).

Any tips from any of you chaps for the procedure to swap the caliper over (not carrier - just caliper)? Especially interested in the bleed procudure if you are only changing one caliper!

I'm beginning to wish I'd kept the Mk1 and sold the Mk2 at the mo!

Phil

[Patch234]

Update no.2

OK, received the refurbed caliper (drivers side), new mintex discs and mintex pads.

Began at about 10:00am

Took off caliper

Took off carrier

Replaced disc

Replaced caliper

Noticed that both slider pins were fixed and neither had any movement in them (could explain some of the clunking). Pulled out both (eventually) replaced one boot. Cleaned the pins The one with the grommet on - it was broken - the grommet that is, I replaced this - they were pretty rotten, thoroughly cleaned regreased and replaced. Now we had movement.

Put it all back together and did the same on the other side. The other side had one slider pin stuck, again the gold coloured one. Pulled them out, cleaned them up, greased them and simply replaced them. No need to replace the boots.

Bled the new caliper. Replaced everything, tidied up the mess around the car (I had tools everywhere - must work on this!) and went out for a spin.

All seems OK, sqeeking coming from the front due to pads needing to bed in, apart from that all A OK.

Lets see what happens now!!

COSTS

Caliper - £134.00 (£34.00 back if I return the old)

Mintex discs and pads - £110.00

Copper grease - £5.00

Lithium grease - £5.00

Bleeding kit - £5.00

[osteo66]

Nice one Patch, it seems you've replaced/done everything you could! Where did you get your mintex pads and discs from?

Dave.

Update no.2

OK, received the refurbed caliper (drivers side), new mintex discs and mintex pads.

Began at about 10:00am

Took off caliper

Took off carrier

Replaced disc

Replaced caliper

Noticed that both slider pins were fixed and neither had any movement in them (could explain some of the clunking). Pulled out both (eventually) replaced one boot. Cleaned the pins The one with the grommet on - it was broken - the grommet that is, I replaced this - they were pretty rotten, thoroughly cleaned regreased and replaced. Now we had movement.

Put it all back together and did the same on the other side. The other side had one slider pin stuck, again the gold coloured one. Pulled them out, cleaned them up, greased them and simply replaced them. No need to replace the boots.

Bled the new caliper. Replaced everything, tidied up the mess around the car (I had tools everywhere - must work on this!) and went out for a spin.

All seems OK, sqeeking coming from the front due to pads needing to bed in, apart from that all A OK.

Lets see what happens now!!

COSTS

Caliper - £134.00 (£34.00 back if I return the old)

Mintex discs and pads - £110.00

Copper grease - £5.00

Lithium grease - £5.00

Bleeding kit - £5.00

[Patch234]

Hey Osteo,

Well, just taken the family to Pizza Hut (not at all because its quite a drive and I can really see if the above has worked - of course) and there were no probems. The cluncking has gone upon - coming to a stop - and the knocking noise from the drivers side front wheel has stopped.

I'm really happy, traditionally, I have always left it to the guy's in the garage to fix problems, and to tell you the truth I have always doubted that they did exactly what I wanted them to do, especially with the stuff you can't see, so going DIY alleviates this problem and gives me satisfaction. Not to mention the hundreds of pounds saved! Better in my pocket than theirs!

Anyway, I diversify, back to your question.

eBay Click ME

Though this item has ended - I bought it!

Cheers Osteo

And once again, cheers Tigerfish for your tutorial for the pins.

[TigerFish]

And once again, cheers Tigerfish for your tutorial for the pins.

No probs mate.

Lets hope this is the end of your problems.