Steering Shudder

[johnboy007]

Hi, can anyone tell me why I am getting a shudder on my steering . I have replaced the brake pads, had all the calipers checked and seals changed, and yet am still experiencing a bad shudder on the steering wheel when braking hard, and a slight shudder when braking lightly. The brake discs are not overly worn but I cannot tell if they are warped and whether or not that would cause that much shudder. Can anyone please confirm this for me.

[ormi]

get the disk run out checked sounds like you have warped disks mate.

[kam05]

Also check your tyres are balanced properly.

[johnboy007]

Thanks, ormi & kam05 for reply. I had 2 new tyres fitted on front and had them balanced, was told although wheels balanced o.k., they were warped(buckled) slightly, so am wondering if this could also be influencing the shudder as well. Not that I dis-believe that discs could be possibly the problem, how does that cause the steering to shudder so badly, mechanic said they are well worn down and scored does this also cause shudder?.

Thank`s again 4 reply, look forward to ur comments again...john

[ormi]

if it was balancing or mis shaped wheels you would get it all the time(approx 45mph up) but you say you only get it when light braking and or braking so that eliminates the first two.

the reason you feel it through the steering is a warp causes a vibration which travels through the suspension components and steering rack which makes its way from the rack up the steering column then to your steering wheel.

also worn and scored disks wont give you a judder.

[ihpj]

I would be very surprised if you have warped your brake discs as modern brakes are very (very) good. If you have fitted genuine parts then I would like to think that they would be beyond reproach. Of course I stand to be corrected but in the last 10 years I have owned BMWs, Lexus, Audis and even Renault and a PUG 205 GTi - and never, ever, have i come across the issue of warped brake discs. Admittedly I have used OE (or better) graded brakes - like EBC - and the only time I have ever experienced the judder you describe has been because the discs have worn to min. level (or below). I would get them measured and go from there...

[ormi]

lets say you have a min thickness of 24mm(avensis mesurement)i had one in the other yesterday 18.5mm way past recomended spec.....no warp

WORN DISKS will not cause a judder!!!!a disk worn true will brake like a normal brake no judder no warp.if you read or use the search function you will see lots of members have had issues with warped disks.also doesn't matter if its oe or not brakes will warp(i work for a main dealer toyota and lexus i see this all the time(everyday).

doesnt matter how good the disks are either or how much they cost if one of the pads/slides or pistons seizes up it will cause the disk to heat up and through time it will warp(mine done this along with so many other members)..

[ihpj]

Fairplay Ormi; as I said, in my personal experience I have never experienced warped discs on any of my cars. It seems incomprehensible to me that discs can warp in this day an age - especially being vented and made out of good quality materials. Any judder has always been discs down to min. (or less) thickness - once replaced, all sorted.

But I accept your comments being s techie and all. I stand corrected :)

[johnboy007]

Thanks lads for input. Will have to save some wonga and get 2 new brake discs, hoping that sorts the problem. I have been searching the net for an idea of prices, and have been amazed at the difference in prices from around £60 - £150 for each disc, is it a faulse economy to buy the cheap ones ?.

Thanks again for your help so far, Johnboy...

[IrishGS300]

Hi Johnboy .....

Just wondering - any update on this since July ?

I have the same problem right now and have changed the pads and disks with no improvement. Recently I heard about the "flange", which is the part of the hub the disk bolts onto. Apparently this flange thing can become slightly off it's orbit due to wear and tare. So because the disk is bolted directly onto it, then it too will follow a wobbly line even though there's nothing wrong with it.

The solution is to "skim" the brake disks, which basically means a machine is used to shave a thin layer off the disks so that their shape offsets any imbalance in the flange. A fairly specialist job I understand, no idea what it costs.

[dandydons]

The solution is to "skim" the brake disks, which basically means a machine is used to shave a thin layer off the disks so that their shape offsets any imbalance in the flange. A fairly specialist job I understand, no idea what it costs.

Am no expert but can't agree with this . Skimming will not sort the problem if the discs are warped which is the most likely cause of shuddering - see ormies posts above. Since you have replaced discs recently maybe your discs are simply faulty ? - Maybe just happened to be a bad batch etc ..it has been known.

Also, in my view skimming is not a specialised job - any reasonable engineering works should be able to do it . - last set I had done for my starlet was from memory £20 a pair. Surely no point skimming warped discs and putting them onto a flange that is out of line - I would try fix the flange by bending it back into shape if that is the problem.

[razagilani]

I had this problem with my 1996 GS300. Problem was traced to front lower suspension ball joints. Cured problem 100%.

[sir john]

Had the same problem with my 93 LS400 recently. The FNS upper suspennsion ball joint was shot. Had it replaced and 90% of judder is gone. I think that there are times when, as a car gets older, a few things start to get past their best.

As for warped discs, my understanding is that it is usually caused by hard braking and then keeping your foot on the brake pedal for a while. The pads clamped around the super hot disc doesnt allow the disc to cool down inn a localised area. This will warp the discs.

[bloke1952]

Hi guys i have a 2004 is 200 love this car its auto and i have recently developed the shuddering up through the steering i am going to fit new front discs and pads i also found that my osf brake caliper is sticking so that will be replaced as well .i will post if after doing these jobs if the problem goes .at one point it was so bad i stoppped my car and even checked the wheel nuts .if this doesnt cure it then im going to check the ball joints .the car gets this problem with out braking it just comes and goes .

Edited May 30, 2023 by bloke1952
extra info

[bloke1952]

Hi guys just an update ,i have fitted a new osf brake caliper,new discs and pads been out on road test and all is well .total cost of parts £276.00 fitted myself .car is running sweet and no more juddering