Buy Another 220d?

[Tooros]

Hi All,

Firstly - apologies - I don't actually own an IS 220D SE as yet (I had to say I did to register :) ) but it could be a very imminent purchase.

I've been digging and reading through everything here for a couple of weeks now.

I love the look and the toys, ride and comfort. MPG is obviously not anywhere near as good as the claimed extra-urban as you've all taught me very well.

The number of "Oh I wish I'd found this forum first..." posts scares the pants off me.

It's my own money and this will be the most I've ever spent on a car.I know forums are often populated by the disgruntled - anyone really happy with theirs?

I drive on the motorway for 95% of my miles.

I haven't noticed any extreme vibration or rattles in the two test drives I've done.

It obviously doesn't leap like a startled rabbit from stationary but it doesn't feel too bad to me and quick for 3rd lane rush hour runs.

I'll be coming out of my 3rd Passat (pd130 sport) so it feels sccchhmmooooove....

Straight forward question: Would you buy another one?

My big worry is economy - I'd hope for 45 for 95% motorway - even a tad lower would be OK but, as I'm used to 48-50 nearly every trip, not too much lower.

That's MPG but there's also parts - I have memories of stupid money for a Toyota alternator years ago, could anyone possibly offer a general comparison of 'normal' expenses when compared to other cars?

Many thanks in advance for any help or opinions.

[kam05]

I own a IS200 myself so maybe I'm not the best person to ask, but what I have read on here about the IS220d is that Lexus shouldn't have bothered with a diesel (or at least they should have developed a decent diesel unit).

If its your own money you are spending I'd say the VAG/BMW diesels are much better, or if you are set on a Japanese diesel you should consider the Honda Accord 2.2CDTI (my brother has a 04 Accord 2.2CDTI in Executive trim and IMHO its better than the IS220d). The Accord is what the IS220d should have been.

I guess the Accord does not have the prestige badge that you may be after and also its not RWD (if that makes a difference to you).

[simon k]

i went from a is 200 to a 220d i got rid because i bought with my heart and not my head, i love the lookm of the lxus and maybe if i had bought the petrol is 250 then no doubt i would be still a lexus owner,

would i buy another, no way

why not try the 250, with the poor mpg on the deisel and most of your miles been on the motorway if i was determined on buying a lexus it would be the 250. although the bmw vw or audi may be a better option

[Tooros]

Hi and Thanks for the replies. I'm beginning to think more and more about the petrol. How accurate would you say their figures were? I guess all the problems with the 220d are solved with a 250 lump.....

....plus there's the twin exhaust bonus ;)

[SINGH182]

TBH im lookin to change my IS300 for a new Audi A5 2.0T and have been looking on the audi forums and they also seem to be peed off regarding official mpg claims as in real world driving, there is no way of achieving the official figures. Another thing i have noticed that is a bit worrying is the amount off "issues/problems" there are with NEW audi/vag cars on the forums compared to lexus where its mainly 220d mpg and rattles......jus goes to show how far lexus/toyota has come in the short years they have been building(lexus).

[dgman]

Hi All,

Firstly - apologies - I don't actually own an IS 220D SE as yet (I had to say I did to register :) ) but it could be a very imminent purchase.

I've been digging and reading through everything here for a couple of weeks now.

I love the look and the toys, ride and comfort. MPG is obviously not anywhere near as good as the claimed extra-urban as you've all taught me very well.

The number of "Oh I wish I'd found this forum first..." posts scares the pants off me.

It's my own money and this will be the most I've ever spent on a car.I know forums are often populated by the disgruntled - anyone really happy with theirs?

I drive on the motorway for 95% of my miles.

I haven't noticed any extreme vibration or rattles in the two test drives I've done.

It obviously doesn't leap like a startled rabbit from stationary but it doesn't feel too bad to me and quick for 3rd lane rush hour runs.

I'll be coming out of my 3rd Passat (pd130 sport) so it feels sccchhmmooooove....

Straight forward question: Would you buy another one?

My big worry is economy - I'd hope for 45 for 95% motorway - even a tad lower would be OK but, as I'm used to 48-50 nearly every trip, not too much lower.

That's MPG but there's also parts - I have memories of stupid money for a Toyota alternator years ago, could anyone possibly offer a general comparison of 'normal' expenses when compared to other cars?

Many thanks in advance for any help or opinions.

the best thing to do is get a car on a three day test drive,zero the trip and bo your normal routes,the trip computer is very accurate and your own opinion is the one you should be listening to.

[mattstheone]

Hi All,

Firstly - apologies - I don't actually own an IS 220D SE as yet (I had to say I did to register :) ) but it could be a very imminent purchase.

I've been digging and reading through everything here for a couple of weeks now.

I love the look and the toys, ride and comfort. MPG is obviously not anywhere near as good as the claimed extra-urban as you've all taught me very well.

The number of "Oh I wish I'd found this forum first..." posts scares the pants off me.

It's my own money and this will be the most I've ever spent on a car.I know forums are often populated by the disgruntled - anyone really happy with theirs?

I drive on the motorway for 95% of my miles.

I haven't noticed any extreme vibration or rattles in the two test drives I've done.

It obviously doesn't leap like a startled rabbit from stationary but it doesn't feel too bad to me and quick for 3rd lane rush hour runs.

I'll be coming out of my 3rd Passat (pd130 sport) so it feels sccchhmmooooove....

Straight forward question: Would you buy another one?

My big worry is economy - I'd hope for 45 for 95% motorway - even a tad lower would be OK but, as I'm used to 48-50 nearly every trip, not too much lower.

That's MPG but there's also parts - I have memories of stupid money for a Toyota alternator years ago, could anyone possibly offer a general comparison of 'normal' expenses when compared to other cars?

Many thanks in advance for any help or opinions.

the best thing to do is get a car on a three day test drive,zero the trip and bo your normal routes,the trip computer is very accurate and your own opinion is the one you should be listening to.

Well mine is a very first one Registered DEC 30 2005 and i am pleased with it

i am getting an AVG Fuel consumption of 40-42mpg which aint bad for the size and weight of the car

and all this about BMWs and Audi doing 65-70mpg is a load a rubbish for the same car in its class

the best i have done is about 560miles on 1 tank.

2 runs to work and back then to Paignton over to Barnstaple then back to Birmingham then just a bit of local driving.

and Diesel is now either cheaper or the same in cost to petrol. so yes you will get a better MPG than the 250

the Road duty is cheaper than the 250.

the Toys are just the same i have the 17" wheels and MM Leather seats

I have never had a Fith injector fail but yes it has been replaced under warranty due to recall

and i have never had any problems with steering locking up rear brakes seizing

but again have been replaced under recall, which also the 250 has been recalled for

i have 37k on the clock,

it was the first diesel car i have owned, i had the is200 before (needed a fuel tanker following every few days to fill it up)

i mainly do motorway driving to and from work about 47mile a day,

and it drives fine, yes you have to get used to the gearing,

but once you have it sorted it is for me a very nice Drive

Matt

[TonyB]

I have had occasion to drive both the "old" and the "new" model diesel as courtesy loans.............so unimpressed, noisy diesel, unrefined.......................I have a GS300............also unrefined compared with the sort of cars Lexus used to produce..............

..............Will be tempted to look at another Marque next time I change vehicles..............but wonder if maybe "they just don't build em like they used to" could be a general issue across the board!!

[javadude]

My IS220d Sport is awesome. I love it. Sitting on the motorway from Reading to Swindon with the cruise control set to 70mph it used to do 40mpg. When I take a friend to Hull uni from Reading I get about 45mpg. Driving carefully I'd probably get close to that with the petrol but the torque and the close ratio gear box that the Sport has means it feels faster than the petrol once its moving. It's so responsive and if you drive it hard its a lot of fun. (The Sport gets lower/stiffer suspension and VDIM too.) I tried an early base model and didn't like the standard gear ratios at all.

The obvious downside is that the diesel is noisier. Cruising on the motorway you'd never know it was a diesel but roaring away from the lights on a cold morning I hanker for the smoother sound of my old lS200. (OK so that had induction kit and fat exhaust so it wasn't quiet but it was smooth sounding.)

For "normal" expenses I think I've only had servicing and new tyres. On the last service it had new brake pads but I don't remember how much they were. Under warranty I've had 5th injector, drivers floor mat, and alloy wheels replaced (common), a sensor in the exhuast replaced (very unusual apparently) and also steering rack and rear brake calipers (recent recall). For the servicing and warranty work Lexus service was first class. Two warranty trips included a gift of £40 diesel and the alloy wheel replacement was their suggestion as they spotted the bubbling.

I'll probably buy the new hybrid due next year or the year after so I won't get another diesel. If I was replacing it through insurance now then I'd be tempted by a smooth auto petrol simply for a change but I'd miss that torque so I could well end up with another diesel.

[Gunther]

As I see it now, 10 say no and 3 say yes on poll just now, so 75% from a small sample may not be representative but is quite telling. Remember everyone tested the ISD before buying and thought it was wonderful, then many moved away realising it has compromises. You really need to ignore the toys and concentrate on driving. Also, Poll doesn't ask for reasons why people wouldn't buy again. People may have different reasons.

That is where even a BMW318d is better (really!!), but it has no toys and is boring, unless you find a good demo with BIG discounts they are giving away! Ultimatly not as fast, but much better gearing means it's nearly as fast and smoother, quieter inside. There is also new 320 ED version, 2.0litre Derv, manual, 163 BHP, and 109g/km Co2 and combined average is 68mpg! 0-60 is just over 8 seconds. Not launched yet, but it has taller gearing and I wonder how that would compare to an ISD.

If you want a diesel, there are much better elsewhere. Lexus make excellent and (in my view) the best "Auto Petrol" cars - that is why I would buy in a Lexus in future.

The fuel economy thing is interesting. In my BMW, my 3litres Auto D will give me 45-48 consistently driven just like Lexus, Lexus gave me 42-48. But, in Lexus if I really squeezed economy, I could get 51-52 best actual. The BMW gives me 59 indicated, and 56 actual!! Remember, it is 197BHP 6 Cylinder and conventional auto.

All modern diesels are complex animals, and prone to problems as a result. Lexus isn't unique. Personally I would still question whether a modern Petrol makes more sense and is better, I think it could be?????

The IS is an excellent car. In many ways better than a 3er, just the diesel part is not as good. Quality otherwise is on par and the luxury feel of Lexus is actually better.

If you must have a Lexus Diesel, buy the newest possible and maintain the manufacturers warranty for piece of mind. Even after 3 years just pay and renew. It's a complex car and some bits will inevitably break!! That is my recommndation to anyone buying any make modern diesel.

[Boothby Coggles]

NEVER EVER!

[moonpig]

I think i probably would buy another yes. i say probably as i usually like to change my cars have no specific loyalty to a brand and like something different each time.

I do a lot of town driving mixed in with other kinds of roads and generally get somewhere in the region of 40mpg my old petrol (1.8 Turbo petrol octavia vrs) would probably be doing high 20's to low 30's and with the price for Derv and petrol being the same i think i am quids in.motorways i see around the 45mpg ish.

Has had a few issues with rattles but Lexus sorted them out on warunte, i also had an issue with the dealer when i took it in but they bent over backwards to sort it out as soon as possible.

The car has grown on me i like the styling its different (although the new shape avensis looks a little similar) the gearing once you get used to it is fine, and its something different from the default setting of a Beemer or merc, woudnt say its the best car out there but for the money i am more than happy... on that note looking at depreciation i have seen a few in the last few weeks that are a little older than mine with a lot more milage and they are up for about £500 more than i paid for mine 8 months ago so i am happy with that...lets hope it lasts til next year when i'll change it

[Matus]

the market in this segment is very different today then back in 2006, so if I would be deciding today: I don't know. If I had to decide in 2006 - yes I would buy another one.

[javadude]

OOops forgot to vote. Have now.

[adridodo]

A PLAIN NO...

I wrote this letter to the Lexus Management-Europe/Netherlands (I am based in Holland) yesterday (they did not reply yet...we know why) and if you have the patience

to read it, this is what I wrote:

"Dear Sir/Madam (Lexus Management),

After servicing my Lexus the other week and discovering the state in which my car is I decided to file the following

complaint with the Lexus Europe Management:

I am writing you to express my discontent with the Lexus IS 220d that I own (new) for 3 years now. I am a member of the Lexus Owner Club UK and exchange information on a regular basis with fellow Lexus owners.

My car has 50000KM on board and the warranty is due to expire after tomorrow 28.08.2009. This car has been plagued with problems from the very first day (when the boot-lid open warning came up for no reason). The reliability of this car is simply ridiculous and I should be reimbursed the money that I paid for it or should be compensated, since I chose this car, after a proper enquiry with JD Power and A., for being the most reliable car; after I had problem with a new Toyota Avensis (diesel as well) before. It was said therein that this was simply the most reliable car in the world for a number of years. I am very disappointed with mine as I wanted to keep this car for 7 years (that is why I got all the options on it) but it did not even last 3 years and now it needs an engine rebuild.

(I). I have mentioned the following problems over the years to your Service Department with the solutions, provided or not, below (point (II)):

1. Hand Brake did not hold on inclined slopes.

2. A metal screeching sound was coming out of the rear brakes when I backed up.

3. The clutch had a judder when pulling up, terrible in traffic jam or in the city.

4. The consumption got bad at one stage. And a rough sound was coming from the engine around turbo revs or when it was idle.

5. The rear-view mirror vibrates when my sound system is on and turned up or the road surface is rough.

6. After the windscreen (cracked by a stone) change my dashboard rattles on a regular basis.

7. My front tires were worn unevenly on the edges so I have to change them before time (the rear ones and the middle part of the front ones are perfect for another 15000KM).

8. alloys corroded (blisters formed on all of them).

9. I have asked for extended warranty like e.g. for Toyota (5 years in NL or 7 years in Belgium).

10. Gearbox gets jerky and sometimes it does not get into the gear the first time, this slowing everything down when trying to get into the first or third gear.

11. Head Gasket leaks and is to be changed in a week and also asked to change the rest of the affected components but said these is no need to. I asked them to get the new rectified parts (engine block, pistons, cylinders, head gasket, injectors, etc) because I cannot afford to pay 6-15000 for an engine rebuild every 2-3 years in a car that costs already 55000 euro. I also asked about the warranty of the changed components.

12. Steering case has problems reported in the UK and the power steering can fail anytime.

13. Your service department never told me about all the recalls/known-issues and never gave me a clear list of what had design problems, needed to be changed and how many/which parts have to be changed in the car.

(II) The following solutions were provided by your service dept. :

1. They checked the rear brakes and said it is fine only to find out this year that : "there is a recall/upgrade for the rear brake discs and pads ". But they still did not change anything regarding the rear brakes.

2. They said that there was dirt on the brakes and charged me Euro 70 for cleaning them but the problem was still there especially during winter. As seen in point 1 above there was a recall for the brakes but they changed nothing. Last service they admitted there was a problem with the rear brakes but they only changed a bracket and not the disks/pads as the UK guys are doing.

3. When I presented it the mechanic said "it is because of the big torque of the engine". Of course more people had that problem and a recall existed. Only now in 2009 I convinced them that the problem still exists and on the forum people got it changed in the UK. They eventually agreed to change it.

4. They changed only 1 DCAT and the 5th injector. But the recall was for ALL D-CAT injectors and for the 5th to be replaced with new types. If these are faulty the EGR valve was loaded and compromised as well. But the argued last time that if they change the EGR they will not get their money from the importer in NL. In the UK they change them all plus the EGR valve.

5. The sound system base is to strong.

6. It is a Diesel, that normally vibrates more.

7. It is a sports car (?). The angle of attack is different.

8. Known problem and they said they will change them in a week time.

9. They said no. There is not such warranty extension and we see why.

10. They said that this is normal because the gear box is made to be durable/solid (?). Well BMW and Mercedes are solid too but they are way better to handle. There is a recall to replace the selector fork in the UK but here they said they cannot find in the database and hence they do not want to change it.

11. They avoided answering the questions. I am not sure what warranty I get for this engine rebuild and what will be changed and what is left in. If the gasket leaked than I am concerned that coolant got into the cylinders and compromised the lubrication of piston rings, cylinders, etc. I hope they do a full engine rebuild or else I have to do it on my money again in a year or so. So what is still under warranty, is my question?

12. They will change it in a week.

13. I think it is fair towards the owner that all the critical problems in the car are fixed before an accident will happen. If there are better new parts these should be used to replace the old-design-faulty ones. We do not get any information on what should be changed until is too late and we waste our time and money with trips to the garage that nobody gets compensated for.

At the end of the day it is not Service Department's (Den Haag) fault because the car is so bad but the engineers from Lexus that should instruct the Service here to change ALL the badly designed parts and not only those that visibly fail.

I will send this letter to Lexus Europe as well as in Japan since they should work to correct all the problems for us, inform us about the technical issues on an otherwise lovely looking premium car.

"

I hope it helps YOU to decide for YOURSELF.

Adrian

Hi All,

Firstly - apologies - I don't actually own an IS 220D SE as yet (I had to say I did to register :) ) but it could be a very imminent purchase.

I've been digging and reading through everything here for a couple of weeks now.

I love the look and the toys, ride and comfort. MPG is obviously not anywhere near as good as the claimed extra-urban as you've all taught me very well.

The number of "Oh I wish I'd found this forum first..." posts scares the pants off me.

It's my own money and this will be the most I've ever spent on a car.I know forums are often populated by the disgruntled - anyone really happy with theirs?

I drive on the motorway for 95% of my miles.

I haven't noticed any extreme vibration or rattles in the two test drives I've done.

It obviously doesn't leap like a startled rabbit from stationary but it doesn't feel too bad to me and quick for 3rd lane rush hour runs.

I'll be coming out of my 3rd Passat (pd130 sport) so it feels sccchhmmooooove....

Straight forward question: Would you buy another one?

My big worry is economy - I'd hope for 45 for 95% motorway - even a tad lower would be OK but, as I'm used to 48-50 nearly every trip, not too much lower.

That's MPG but there's also parts - I have memories of stupid money for a Toyota alternator years ago, could anyone possibly offer a general comparison of 'normal' expenses when compared to other cars?

Many thanks in advance for any help or opinions.

[adridodo]

Forgot to say: I would buy the IS auto 250/350(US) any time. There is a minor problem for u I guess: they are all alcoholics & they like a good drink...

Excellent to drive though !

Hi All,

Firstly - apologies - I don't actually own an IS 220D SE as yet (I had to say I did to register :) ) but it could be a very imminent purchase.

I've been digging and reading through everything here for a couple of weeks now.

I love the look and the toys, ride and comfort. MPG is obviously not anywhere near as good as the claimed extra-urban as you've all taught me very well.

The number of "Oh I wish I'd found this forum first..." posts scares the pants off me.

It's my own money and this will be the most I've ever spent on a car.I know forums are often populated by the disgruntled - anyone really happy with theirs?

I drive on the motorway for 95% of my miles.

I haven't noticed any extreme vibration or rattles in the two test drives I've done.

It obviously doesn't leap like a startled rabbit from stationary but it doesn't feel too bad to me and quick for 3rd lane rush hour runs.

I'll be coming out of my 3rd Passat (pd130 sport) so it feels sccchhmmooooove....

Straight forward question: Would you buy another one?

My big worry is economy - I'd hope for 45 for 95% motorway - even a tad lower would be OK but, as I'm used to 48-50 nearly every trip, not too much lower.

That's MPG but there's also parts - I have memories of stupid money for a Toyota alternator years ago, could anyone possibly offer a general comparison of 'normal' expenses when compared to other cars?

Many thanks in advance for any help or opinions.

[FinLex]

the market in this segment is very different today then back in 2006, so if I would be deciding today: I don't know. If I had to decide in 2006 - yes I would buy another one.

I agree 100 %. I believe I made the right choice back in 2006, but were I faced with the same decision now, I don't think I would end up with a Lexus. The 2009 model wasn't a big enough update IMO. The competition is fierce, if you stay put, you're getting behind.

But if I was looking for a second-hand car, then sure. I vote YES.

[dgman]

toros,maybe you asking the wrong question,perhaps you should be asking would you buy a second generation is at all.if you take away the engines in both vehicles you will find that the model has suffered irritations and problem sand lets not forget that the 250 has had engine rebuilds but that situation does'nt seem to strike a chord.i can tell you that at 59k my car has been 100% reliable.next year lexus are introducing a hatchback hybrid with an atkinson cycle engine and i assume that at the next generation of the is the diesel will be dropped in favour of the hatch drive train.the diesel will ultimately be killed off by emmission standards in europe.

[adridodo]

Lads, I can tell ya that I have asked the mechanics at Lexus if there is a new Diesel engine coming out. The answer was No...this diesel compromised Lexuss name and is on the way out. It might be cos as it was said above it will be replaced by a hybrid or a smaller petrol version. What is amazing to me is the fact that every time I've asked the mechanics at Lexus or Toyota(in Holland) what they drive, the answer is always the same: Honda e.g. Legend (eq. of Lexus on petrol) or Civic/Accord (diesels). Some of them have driven Honda's for 10-20 years and they've never changed brand.

U want reliable and cheap to run... buy Honda...or Acura. I still prefer Lexus... but the 250.

toros,maybe you asking the wrong question,perhaps you should be asking would you buy a second generation is at all.if you take away the engines in both vehicles you will find that the model has suffered irritations and problem sand lets not forget that the 250 has had engine rebuilds but that situation does'nt seem to strike a chord.i can tell you that at 59k my car has been 100% reliable.next year lexus are introducing a hatchback hybrid with an atkinson cycle engine and i assume that at the next generation of the is the diesel will be dropped in favour of the hatch drive train.the diesel will ultimately be killed off by emmission standards in europe.

[Tooros]

Hi All,

Wow - thank you all very much for the replies; although they weren't really what I was hoping to hear. :(

It's good to know that over half of you would buy another but it concerns me that the level of misery some of you have suffered.

I'm looking at 07/57's with a year mfr warranty and was thinking of extending that by a further 2 years.

I'm now really unsure that's where my 15/16 grand should be going. Bu99er.

...thinks.....

[kam05]

I'm now really unsure that's where my 15/16 grand should be going. Bu99er.

IS250

[JFB2]

Tooros, if you're buying privately, I'd definitely recommend the IS250.

I had an IS220d to 3 years and it was fine. No reliability issues at all. Fuel consumption would not go above 36mpg in mixed driving. Motorway it would go up to 38mpg.

Had new IS250 for the past month, and it's already getting 36mpg in free flowing traffic (motorway and A/B roads), and 33mpg in mixed driving. Driving pleasure is 100% better. Creamy, silky smooth 6 cylinder. That's what Lexus is meant to be about.

[jalfa]

I would say probably yes. It all depends on the price...I liked my IS 220d very much in all aspects. The fuelconsumption was no big deal for me. I pick my cars mostly based on looks, comfort and reliability. My IS had all those.

I just now sold it - or rather traded it for a RX 400h, but that was because we simply needed more space. It became very obvious during our summer roadtrip around Europe. I will miss it - driving a SUV is very different.

[proplus]

No for me.....the contract for my IS220d SE runs out at the very end of Oct and I'm changing it to a Freelander 2 HSE.

Last year, the car broke down on the motorway 7 times......got to the point that I was on first name basis with the RAC men. The VFD warning sign would come on and the car went into 'limp home' mode (20mph). It took Lexus 7 tries to fix the problem. The worst was between the 3rd and 4th time, picked up the car and broke down again that evening.

As for economy, I read with envy what others get. My average mpg is around 37mpg. Only last week (thats after 2years and 10months of owning the car) I have finally discovered how to get around 45mpg on the motorway......in 5th gear driving at 60mph, with a lot of rolling involved. Every time I'm at Lexus, I laugh at the IS220d poster saying something like 55mpg.......

I've found the paintwork to be uber soft, and have had a lot 'clack' coming from the dash from the 1st week.

[Cathal]

yes i would, but i would'nt buy another one because i dont hold on to cars for too long, maybe a year max and i get bored of them

But i like the car