It's "dark" But The Driver Hasn't Got His Lights On?

[japthree]

Around 4pm it is getting dark - sunset and I'm driving with my lights on but the car behind isn't got his on but the cars behind him have!

Few weeks ago it was really darkish and the car behind me didn't have them on - (I thought he should by now...we're on a country road too National Speed limit applies 60mph max) so I suddenly turned mine off and then waited a sec or two and turned them on (as a kinda signal for him) and he got the message to turn his on!

Why is this - is it the dash is lit up in some cars even when the lights are off?

[sparkystav]

Why is this - is it the dash is lit up in some cars even when the lights are off?

yes, a lot of new cars light up whatever

[Noel]

OR some people are just too thick to realise the importance of lights at dusk ... auto on wired to the ignition lights should be a law for new cars

[The Editor]

... auto on wired to the ignition lights should be a law for new cars

AGREED.

[dave1]

Maybe if we had more police patrolling the roads this sort of thing would be less prevalent. Cameras may be great for raising money but are no substitute for real policing.

[fil4362]

Lights on a car are not even an mot fail that law needs to be changed. You dont need lights on your car for it to pass an mot test.

Any body want to argue the poitn please be my guest LOL i been testing for 20 years and have never agreed with the stupid rule btu its not my rule so i have to live with it

[dave1]

Lights on a car are not even an mot fail that law needs to be changed. You dont need lights on your car for it to pass an mot test.

Any body want to argue the poitn please be my guest LOL i been testing for 20 years and have never agreed with the stupid rule btu its not my rule so i have to live with it

Whilst the point you make is valid, the vehicle lighting regulations 1989 require that lights are fitted and working on most vehicles when used on a public highway between sunset and sunrise. As far as I know, for MOT purposes if the vehicle is only used during daylight hours and not at times of seriously reduced visibility then provided lights are not fitted or are masked, painted over or not connected to a power source then the car can pass the MOT provided also that VT32 is also issued.

[fil4362]

Yes Dave your almost fully correct. The mot test doesnt work under the full arm of the law only section 45 of the road traffic act. If a vehicle i test has its lights masked or disconected and the owner say he only drives it during the day i have to pass it. Even if its dark when he brings it in.

AS for the vt32 Its there for the testers protection really, evn though its ment to be there to tell customers of things that are border line. Most people selling a car will imediatly disgaurd the vt32 as soon as they walk out the door. They wont want a buyer to know it only just passed. There is now a section onthe mot certificate thats says yes or no if a vt32 was issued.

If you see an item that is very borderline fail but it should pass issue a vt32 to cover your back as i point that you saw it but at the time you saw it it wasnt bad enough to fail. A tyre with 1.6mm of tread is a pass although i know in half a day it will be illegal. The mot state below 1.6mm so on the limit is still a pass. If the police stop the car the next day the first thing the driver will say is "it only passed the mot yesturday" If you issued a vt 32 your ***** will be covered so to speak. The mot test is only a check to say the vehicle met minimum requirements at time of test so it doesnt really matter if i issue a vt32 or not the car was ok when i saw it issueing a vt32 covers my ***** that i did see the fault. I could tell the cars owner but he will always say "know one told me nothing" so the vt32 is there to cover me thats what i use it for AS i am sure your aware there didnt use to be such a certificate.

I know many customers in my area that "share wheels" as it were. They put on the good set between them which ever car is due a test. I even know a customer that has an incorrectly spaced number plate he velcros on correct ones for test then takes them of again before he even leaves my car park. Theres nothing i can do about it. Personally it doesnt bother me its not my rules flounting.

[dave1]

Yes Dave your almost fully correct. The mot test doesnt work under the full arm of the law only section 45 of the road traffic act. If a vehicle i test has its lights masked or disconected and the owner say he only drives it during the day i have to pass it. Even if its dark when he brings it in.

Surely if it is dark when the vehicle is presented for MOT testing then the vehicle is obviously not being used just in daylight hours and as such should be failed.

AS for the vt32 Its there for the testers protection

The VT32 is not just for the protection of the tester it is also there to record any untoward things which may be dangerous/unsafe but do not fall within the remit of the test. As I am sure you are aware, the Inspection Manual for Class 3,4 & 7 vehicles states that in the scenario of the lights issue then a VT32 should be issued (Section 1.1 )

[fil4362]

Yes i agree again Dave should be issued but not required. Thats my point you dont have to use a vt32 its testers choice.

Which testers guide are you using dave i dont know your history but if your using an internet one it may be out of date. The testers gudie is updated very often with the new online testing system updates are emailed as and when needed the paper testers guide is now vertually useless unless the garage downloads the updates and staples them into the guide. Vosa evantually send out paper updates but these normally arrive weeks after the changes. The testers guide is available on the vosa computer and your encourgaed to use this rather than the paper version. Last garage inspection we had i didn tknow how to access the computer version and was moaned at, nothing vosa could do but they still moaned.

As for car being presented in the dark i still cant fail it regaurdless of what i know happens outside of the mot test bay. Like i said i know one family that swap wheels so the car for test has the best tyres. I can only test the car as i see it onthe ramp at that time. The family could drive in and change the wheels in my car park theres nothing i can do about it. Its not within my powers to fail something that i know happens outside of my test bay.

I can in theory fail any car for any reason i like wether its legal and i end up in trouble is another story. The mot test has many downsides and stupid rules but i can only test within the limits of what i am instructed to, and what happens outside of the garage is not my relm.

Heres a stupid one for you, I fail a car for corroded hole in the boot near the suspension mount. The guy takes his car away places an old oil can over the hole and glues down his carpet, Pass or fail?? i cant see the hole from underneath the car. Its a pass i have to presume its been repaired correctly as no one in there right mind would carry out an inapropriate repair on a structural part of the car.

Some gareges ask customers not to underseal any welding required for test they are not alowed to do this, i can only test what i can see if a repair is covered in underseal or stuck down under the boot carpet i can only test it as i see it if i cant see it i cant fail it.

[dave1]

Yes i agree again Dave should be issued but not required. Thats my point you dont have to use a vt32 its testers choice.

Which testers guide are you using dave i dont know your history but if your using an internet one it may be out of date. The testers gudie is updated very often with the new online testing system updates are emailed as and when needed the paper testers guide is now vertually useless unless the garage downloads the updates and staples them into the guide. Vosa evantually send out paper updates but these normally arrive weeks after the changes. The testers guide is available on the vosa computer and your encourgaed to use this rather than the paper version. Last garage inspection we had i didn tknow how to access the computer version and was moaned at, nothing vosa could do but they still moaned.

I tend to use the official guides whenever possible. I would think that the following should be reasonably accurate as it is the governing body who issue it. I appreciate that all updates may not be there but the bulk of the manual should be spot-on. It's like Ormi says though...there are too many grey areas that really need sorting out. What you fail, Ormi might pass and vice-versa because a lot of these grey areas are open to different interpretations.

The VOSA MOT Computerisation Manuals.

http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/index.htm

[fil4362]

Rear Fog Lamps The inspection of rear fog lamps is confined to the one rear fog lamp which is required to be fitted to the centre or offside of vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1 The above is copied direct from testers manuel. Doesnt mention nearside fog light there fore its not in the test and as such cannot be failed.

Obligatory rear position lamps (rear lamps) Lamps required by Regulations to be fitted to a vehicle to indicate its presence and width when viewed from the rear. They must show a steady red light to the rear, visible from a reasonable distance

Also copied from testers manuel, this is were the problem origianates. The reason for rejection from one section cannot be applied to the method of inspection for another item

An obligatory light position light must show correct colour, a non abligatory light isnt in the test.

The only Grey area is how the manuel is used and interpritated.

[dave1]

Also copied from testers manuel, this is were the problem origianates. The reason for rejection from one section cannot be applied to the method of inspection for another item

An obligatory light position light must show correct colour, a non abligatory light isnt in the test.

The only Grey area is how the manuel is used and interpritated.

Whilst I agree with you I find it disturbing that two qualified MOT testers should be able to interprete the manual differently which would result in different test results for a car with the same "faults".

Anyway, Happy New Year & Happy Testing

[nedsram13a]

I drive with mine on all the time!

[lexdavis]

it just shows how daft people are out there and cant think to put lights on

[Rich OB]

Don't worry people. All new cars from next year will all have Daytime Running Lights. Alot of cars already have them.

But then i guess the new problem will be that because people know they then have lights that automatically come on everytime they start their car, they won't bother awitching on lights at dusk. Therefore we'll probably come across more drivers with no tailights, as DRL are only lit at the front.

I don't understand people that drive around without lights on or just put them on when its pitch black. People forget that lights aren't just for the benefit of the driver, but for others to see you too! Including pedestrians!

[Mike_B]

Don't worry people. All new cars from next year will all have Daytime Running Lights. Alot of cars already have them.

But then i guess the new problem will be that because people know they then have lights that automatically come on everytime they start their car, they won't bother awitching on lights at dusk. Therefore we'll probably come across more drivers with no tailights, as DRL are only lit at the front.

I don't understand people that drive around without lights on or just put them on when its pitch black. People forget that lights aren't just for the benefit of the driver, but for others to see you too! Including pedestrians!

Yeah, that's just great. Now, no-one will be able to see me on my motorbike, because every flipping vehicle will have lights on and bikes won't stand out any more. Watch for rocketing bike casualties over the next year or two.