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I currently run a mk4 LS400, even though the car is in perfect condition, I fancied a change. As I cannot afford an LS430 I looked around for an alternative comparable vehicle. I did happen to find a Merc S430 at a good price. I managed to take this on a reasonable test drive, and therefore took the opportunity compare it with my car. First impressions of the Merc was of a much more noticably instrusive engine noise, the handling and balance were more sports like, and gave a great sense of security. Steering was heaver that I like, but had good feedback. Seats I found were very hard, but supportive. Bumps were felt much more than I was used to, this was added to by several squeaks and minor rattles from the cabin. Switch gear I found to be an ergonomic disaster, with everything seeming in the wrong place, the COMAND system is awful and would require a lot of manual reading to get the hang of it.

I have tried to be objective, but I was glad to get back to the serenity and comfort of my LS. I have now decided to sell my vehicle and pay the extra for an LS430. Did not try a Audi A8 though?.

Hope this is useful to anyone considering a change.

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I'd like to state at this point that I dont know an awful lot about this range of vehicles, and more importantly have never driven one in this range.

However.....you drove an S430, which is considered by Mercedes as the slighty sportier model than, for example, the S320 CDI (which has got some of the best reports ever in motoring mags). Perhaps you'd like to give that version a go? If you're looking around that mark (LS430), the obvious ones to consider are:

New 7-series (if you didn't like the command system on Merc, you wont like I-drive!)

S-Class

New E-Class (different league, but WELL worth a look....it's a superb car apparently)

New XJ (hugely improved over old car, and apparently you can get some good deals on them)

Audi A8....apparently good, but an old design.

Or......and this is a bit far fetched but you'd be surprised....just get yourself into a used Bentley for a test drive. Preferably an Arnage. They're designed to last for MILLIONS of miles, and very few of them have covered 50k on the used market, so if you're looking at £50k, just have yourself a quick look around some dealers to see what's out there. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at what Bentleys are available for £50k. Though you will need a big garage! Oh, and a deep(er) pocket for the servicing costs.

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Thanks for your comments Tony,

Not really looking to spend 50K, more like 30. Only rarely do you find 430s for less than this, seem to be holding prices really well. Lexus dealers have 2000-2001 examples for around 33-40k. Bentley, nice but!! pehaps not. :duh:

Mike

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However.....you drove an S430, which is considered by Mercedes as the slighty sportier model than, for example, the S320 CDI (which has got some of the best reports ever in motoring mags). Perhaps you'd like to give that version a go? If you're looking around that mark (LS430), the obvious ones to consider are:

New 7-series (if you didn't like the command system on Merc, you wont like I-drive!)

S-Class

New E-Class (different league, but WELL worth a look....it's a superb car apparently)

Funny, I'd heard that too :whistling: :shutit:

If you thought the S430 had more noticeably intrusive engine noise, then the S320CDi will be many times worse, although well insulated and quieter at speed there is no hiding the diesel noise when accelerating.

I drove an LS430 at the openroad event a couple of weeks ago and I was very impressed with how quiet and comfortable the car was, it felt like you could just travel for miles without noticing it at all.

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If you thought the S430 had more noticeably intrusive engine noise, then the S320CDi will be many times worse, although well insulated and quieter at speed there is no hiding the diesel noise when accelerating.

Doesn't the S320 CDI have the multi-point injection, which squirts fuel in at different points into the cylinder, which quite literally stops it sounding like a diesel?

(once again I stress......this is only going on literature that I've read, the only luxury cars I've driven are new bentleys, I've never experienced the LS430 et al range!!!)

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Thanks for your comments Tony,

Not really looking to spend 50K, more like 30. Only rarely do you find 430s for less than this, seem to be holding prices really well. Lexus dealers have 2000-2001 examples for around 33-40k. Bentley, nice but!! pehaps not. :duh:

Mike

i've seen s500's and 430's in top marques for less than 29k with 1 yr warranties and bout 50k miles. very good examples aswell

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The CDI diesels are a world away from the previous generation engines and at a constant speed you wouldn't know the difference, but at startup and under acceleration its noticably louder than a petrol, although they do have quite a deep roar not the typical diesel clatter.

In Germany they have the E400 and S400 CDi V8 diesel with 0-60 in under 7 secs.

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The CDI diesels are a world away from the previous generation engines and at a constant speed you wouldn't know the difference, but at startup and under acceleration its noticably louder than a petrol, although they do have quite a deep roar not the typical diesel clatter.

That I completely agree with.......my dad has a C220 CDI. perfect on motorway etc, but on startup you can REALLY tell it's a diesel though. Really is only for 30seconds though.

Grandalf.........sorry, kind of mis-judged what you were getting at, and got a bit carried away!!

For £30k you can get a WHOLE load of car. DEFINATELY DEFINATELY DEFINATELY get yourself into a new E-class. You can get extremely good examples, mentioned above, of S-class' for £30k mark - many would have been company cars and done only motorway miles (a great combination - regularly serviced, no hard miles).

Take a look also at a used XJ. Though not as good as the new aluminium space-frame XJ, and you will suffer slightly with legroom in the back, they are an awesome car, and ESPECIALLY as the new model has just come out, you will find some cracking deals !

All this aside.......I'm not trying to steer you away from a Lexus. I think they are a cracking car (LS430). But I can't stress enough that I think you should get yourself out in a new E-class, an S-class (used) and an XJ, before you make a decision !

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I recently test drove the BMW 745li. I own a 2003 Lesux 430 Ultra. The BMW was a disaster! The navi screen is set back into the dashboard over an arm's length away, and the screen is consierably smaller than the LS 430. Frankly, it was hard to see.

The "controller" to use and set various functions was very invonvenient and undesireable.

The driver's seat controls are between the driver's waist on the right side and the side of the armrest. Hard to find, let alone use.

The new "push to start" button for the engine, is located almost directly behind a steering wheel switch (cruise control or windshield wiper, not sure which at the moment), and it is conceivable you could accidently "stop the vehicle" while attempting to use another function.

No electric folding mirrors on the 745LI although they exist on other model BMW's.

The mercedes E-320 is not the same car to compare an LS-430 with. Maybe the E55. Even then, all the bells and whistles are not the same.

Lexus has some comfort issues to work on: Cell phone system, mud flaps availability, etc., but all in all, its one of the best vehicles on the road today. I dislike the fact they are changing the outward design for 2004, because mine is a 2003! I would have hoped they would have kept the design until 2006 as was originally planned.

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The mercedes E-320 is not the same car to compare an LS-430 with. Maybe the E55. Even then, all the bells and whistles are not the same.

Yeah, sorry - didn't mean to make it sound that way.

What I was trying to get across was that you get a whole load of car for £30k. And the new E-class is a very good car. More importantly it will hold value for a fair while aswell, where as the S-class and Lexus LS will devalue when the imminent face lift models come out.

Don't put the E and the S in the same range, but do consider that it is there and within your budget !

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Sort of on topic...

My father has had Lexi since they were launched as he used to be a Director for Crown MOtor's heading up Toyota & Lexus fopr the Asia Pacific region so we've had loads of them, LS400, LS430, extended LS400 and LS400 Limo over the years.

He's now changed jobs and living in Belgium and fancied a change and bought the top og the line E Class...

My personal opinoon is it isn't a scratch on the Lexus, the rear seats have no room in comparioson, not as much nice to drive and although the toys are better laid out would prefer a Lexus if that was the type of car I was going for anyday....

Just my 2p again....

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Its not really fair to compare the E class to the LS, just like it isn't to compare a Lexus GS to the Mercedes S class. They are different types of cars, in a different price range (the E class starts at £24K, the LS £54K).

As Tony said at that sort of price, £30K you have the choice of a new E class or GS, or a second hand S Class, LS, Jag XJ etc.

Personally I don't think the GS is a patch on the new E class, but thats because its a brand new car where as the GS is showing its age in places, particularly the interior design.

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We ownded an E class diesel Mercedes. Brilliant car powerful diesel engines, cars designed to do starship mileage without problems. Mercedes have always had good comfortable seats but they are usually too firm and their diesels are still audible especially at start up.

Still today few cars can manage the silence and comfort that the LS has.

We have had a few Mercedes but it will take some persuasion to go back after owning a Lexus- they've just got it right.

:zee: Paul

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Nice comments. I think on balance that if the LS430 is due for a facelift, it may pay to wait and see if the earlier ones drop in price?. Not sure what all the talk about deisels is about, the car I tried was petrol engined. Nice Response, thanks everyone.

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I think on balance that if the LS430 is due for a facelift, it may pay to wait and see if the earlier ones drop in price?

Sounds very wise to me.

What's the time frame you're looking at for getting your new car ? Or can it wait for prices to take a bit of a drop ?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I currently run a 1996 P GS-300 and have driven every car in the Lexus range except for the RX300. I also regularly drive a Mercedes E320 CDI. My wife has an A140 Avantgarde Auto.

What can I say.... as far as I can tell Merecdes have a few issues:

1. The A Class service costs work out about the same as the GS-300

2. The E320 CDI (with AMG wheels) is much more sporty to drive than the Lexus, the engine torque is like driving an American V8

3. The E320 is refined, for a diesel....! Most 4-Cyl petrol engines are more refined though. Diesel and refinement do not go together, no matter what the hacks say.

4. The E320 drinks almost as much fuel as the Petrol Lexus.... yes, that's right.... 28 vs 25 MPG

5. All recent Mercedes suffer from 1) Electrical gremlins too numerous to mention 2) poor airflow on the A/C system 3) Dreadful dealer support from MB Retail here in London. All this adds up to a pretty frustrating ownership experience.

6. I love the new E-Class with the glass roof, the fantastic interior design, the sporty drive, love it.... but I just can't bring myself to spend 35 grand on an E320 petrol when you can get an LS-430 for the same money and no on-going electrical and dealer issues!

LS or GS 430... my next car!

Justin.

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but I just can't bring myself to spend 35 grand on an E320 petrol when you can get an LS-430 for the same money and no on-going electrical and dealer issues!

I'm really glad this thread's just popped up again....I did enjoy the discussion above !

I think your last point there really is one that should be remembered. Very valid, and really does put into perspective the comparison. Although I still think you get an awful lot of car in an E-class (new) and do love them so I think for the prestige aswell you pay extra.

Your point about dealer issues.......although nowhere near as bad, from my experience with Lexus dealers, it seems they are going the same way as BMW/Merc. As much good as I hear about all the dealers, I've yet to find a good one, and I've used 3. Just a point to keep in the back of your mind, especially as Lexus GB continues to grow and grow.

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If your looking at both cars new, the LS is £54 which is a lot more than the £35K Mercedes.

I had a few electrical glitches with my new E class but the dealer sorted them out quite quickly and I haven't had any problems since. I have also found my local merc dealer very helpful although hardly surprising with the number of cars that pass through their everyday they don't have the same personal touch that Lexus dealers have.

For mpg, my E270 returns 38mpg average, which is a lot more than the IS200 I had which only managed about 24 (with the same enthusiastic driving).

I haven't had any problems with the aircon either...

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I drove 600 miles in my LS400 and got out fresh as a daisy! That's good enough for me.

Add to that the most reliable marque bar none, the best security bar none, the best sat-nav bar none, what in my opinion is the best and quietest V8 and I can see why cars in this league cost as much as they do.

All Lexi have scored four stars in the Euro NCAP tests which is a considerable achievement.

The LS430 has a nicer interior and an even lower CD which makes it the best on the road except for concept vehicles and hybrids.

Let's face it! If you were the last person alive, this would be in the running for your car of choice.

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Thanks for all the extra input chaps. After due consideration I think I have decided on the LS430, if I can find one at a reasonable price. Considering the depressed auction prices on large cars at the moment, dealers are looking a bit expensive. Still got to keep trying eh! :)

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Excellent decision, GrandAlf. I don't think that you will regret that. It has been three months now since I traded my LS400 Mk3 for an LS430. Every kilometer so far has been a pleasure and I really love to drive that car.

Not that there were many critical points with my LS400. But even the little ones which I wrote up in this forum in an earlier message, have been corrected in the LS430. At this point, I have absolutely nothing to complain about.

Good luck with finding a suitable 430!

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