430 In The Wet & Snow

[Jefflex]

Hi. I am interested to know how the 430's perform in the wet. My 400 slid around like a looney and coming too fast into a roundabout or cornor in the wet would always put you into a rear wheel slide and if you wern't quick it could be very unforgiving. This happened to me and it finally got the better of me when I did an 80mph spin off into trees and totalled wrecked my 400 last Friday night in the wet. I has no traction control on my 97 model and i would never have one of that age again. So I'm wondering if the 430 is a better car in the worst of conditions. Tail slides is something very "rear wheel drive" and I know even the cabbies that drive Mercs stay at home when it snows. My 400 was all over the place last year in the snow and I'm wondering if I really want another rear wheel drive car. So I'd be really interested to know what 430 owners think about this. Doses the rear end kick out if you come a bit quick into a cornor or roundabout if you push it in the wet? How's the car in the snow. Can you keep it in a stright line or is the rear all o ver the road?

Thanks for your fb,

Jeffo

[steve2006]

Sorry to hear of your accident I trust the built quality protected you and you came away unharmed.

I don't know about the LS430 but my 400 with traction control is equally useless in snow and although the TC will straighten the car up in a slide it's not a pleasant experience.

I think the LS430 has a different TC system so it may be better.

[Jefflex]

Hi Steve. Yea I walked away unhurt. Shaken but not too stired. Its due to the big car size that I did. the shell kept its shape and even with that awmighty whack both the rear doors opened and closed proper. The arsss end hit a tree square on at about 80 down in a ditch. The LPG tank had hardly a mark on it and it must av taken a almighty wollop right there in the weel well. Even after the car started and the wheels turned. My very expensive camera gear and my large laptop that was at the back off the boot buy the rear seats came out unblemished. I'm trying to upload some pix but havent a clue how to, the help on here aint no bloody help at all :)

I know heres my picco link. use that.

http://picasaweb.google.com/herenthere0

So far no 430 owners with any fb. Pity. All my mates are telling me to wise up and go for a front wheel drive car - but I just lvu these wonderful cars. It's just a pity they're crap in anything else other than sunshine. Well the 400's at least. I'm hoping the 430's are betta.

Snaps

[GEN]

Hi Steve. Yea I walked away unhurt. Shaken but not too stired. Its due to the big car size that I did. the shell kept its shape and even with that awmighty whack both the rear doors opened and closed proper. The arsss end hit a tree square on at about 80 down in a ditch. The LPG tank had hardly a mark on it and it must av taken a almighty wollop right there in the weel well. Even after the car started and the wheels turned. My very expensive camera gear and my large laptop that was at the back off the boot buy the rear seats came out unblemished. I'm trying to upload some pix but havent a clue how to, the help on here aint no bloody help at all :)

I know heres my picco link. use that.

http://picasaweb.google.com/herenthere0

So far no 430 owners with any fb. Pity. All my mates are telling me to wise up and go for a front wheel drive car - but I just lvu these wonderful cars. It's just a pity they're crap in anything else other than sunshine. Well the 400's at least. I'm hoping the 430's are betta.

Snaps

[GEN]

Hi Steve. Yea I walked away unhurt. Shaken but not too stired. Its due to the big car size that I did. the shell kept its shape and even with that awmighty whack both the rear doors opened and closed proper. The arsss end hit a tree square on at about 80 down in a ditch. The LPG tank had hardly a mark on it and it must av taken a almighty wollop right there in the weel well. Even after the car started and the wheels turned. My very expensive camera gear and my large laptop that was at the back off the boot buy the rear seats came out unblemished. I'm trying to upload some pix but havent a clue how to, the help on here aint no bloody help at all :)

I know heres my picco link. use that.

http://picasaweb.google.com/herenthere0

So far no 430 owners with any fb. Pity. All my mates are telling me to wise up and go for a front wheel drive car - but I just lvu these wonderful cars. It's just a pity they're crap in anything else other than sunshine. Well the 400's at least. I'm hoping the 430's are betta.

Snaps

Hi!

Sorry to hear about your accident and glad that the car did deliver in terms of your being able to walk away from such a catastrophic event.

I have a 1998 LS400 that comes with both traction control and a snow mode - last year, in the snow, both proved useless. Back in the 70's I had the same problem with a heavier car ( Fleetwood Cadillac) which had a similar configuration (front engine and rear wheel drive) and had to go through even heavier snow (North-East USA)and found that changing to snow tyres provided a great improvement. I was not able to do this last year but have now changed to snow tyres - the ride remains smooth and quiet but it is surefooted - how surefooted I will only find out when (and if) the snow arrives here. In the meantime, in the wet, all seems well. By the by, I used to have Pirellis which I have found (on another car also) are useless as far as handling in the wet and they were not great on dry surfaces either. The only problem which is somewhat academic is that the snow tyres are rated to 120mph rather than the 160 or 180mph of the summer tyres. As for the 430 I haven't had one but reading around there is the suggestion that, given its additional impovements/complexity over the 400, it is more prone to difficulties and that these are even more expensive to fix. No doubt 430 owners will set the record straight. By the by, the front wheel drive (I have had several fwd cars) is an improvement, but certainly not infallible. Personally, if I had to replace the LS400 I would just look for another. Whatever you do, don't go for one of the Lexus hybrid 4 wheel drive models - their problems (in the snow) (as documented on various forums) seemed even worse than the standard Lexus cars!

Hope you find a car that meets your requirements and needs.

[JellyBean]

If front wheel drive is so marvellous, how come all racing cars and all the premium high-performance sports cars are either rear or four-wheel drive? When the Sierra Cosworth kept walking away with the Touring Car Championship, being RWD versus all the FWDs, they had to make them carry ballast to make them slower.

Rear wheel drive is for Real Men!

[Jefflex]

If front wheel drive is so marvellous, how come all racing cars and all the premium high-performance sports cars are either rear or four-wheel drive? When the Sierra Cosworth kept walking away with the Touring Car Championship, being RWD versus all the FWDs, they had to make them carry ballast to make them slower.

Rear wheel drive is for Real Men!

Yea, yea, on the track it's all good. We're not on the track. Right? Get it? Good!

[JellyBean]

If front wheel drive is so marvellous, how come all racing cars and all the premium high-performance sports cars are either rear or four-wheel drive? When the Sierra Cosworth kept walking away with the Touring Car Championship, being RWD versus all the FWDs, they had to make them carry ballast to make them slower.

Rear wheel drive is for Real Men!

Yea, yea, on the track it's all good. We're not on the track. Right? Get it? Good!

Well I think I am on the right track about RWD !

[JellyBean]

My 400 slid around like a looney and coming too fast into a roundabout or corner in the wet would always put you into a rear wheel slide and if you wern't quick it could be very unforgiving. This happened to me and it finally got the better of me...

I think there's a interesting clue in the word 'finally'.

[J3NKO]

Is it not just a case of driving to the given conditions? When "coming in too fast" what do you expect? If you were in a front wheel car, you'd understeer and end up in a hedge aswell. All it requires is a sensible head to say "oh, the road is wet...I should probably go a bit easier today"

Any RWD will try to kill you if you hoon into corners and roundabouts and rely on TC to save you (or any electronic gadgetry for that matter)

Its all about knowing how to drive them. Brake in straight lines and avoid twitchy movements which will upset weight distribution/momentum. Maybe its your driving thats the problem, not the car?

Not trying to have a go or insult you but its just the gist I get from your original post.

[Swindon Andy]

I have only ever owned RWD cars and much prefer them, but I drive my partner's FWD very often. There's no doubt about it, FWD is far easier and safer than RWD in slippery conditions. This only makes them 'better' if that's your main concern.

Big cars like ours need a fair amount of skill in the snow. It isn't easy, but I wouldn't change to FWD.

[ManicMark]

I have had no problems in the wet or snow with my mark4 once I got shot of the useless pirellis it came with that is. last winter i had continentall winter contact tyres & the winter before michelin summer tyres. I dont drive it like a granny but its not a rally car either.

If you want a bit of comfort plus toys & want to hoon around go for a mitsubishi galant vr4, not as comfy as the lexus but loads of grunt & 4 wheel drive/steer.

should keep you out of trouble or put you faster into it if you push it past its limits.

[Jefflex]

I have had no problems in the wet or snow with my mark4 once I got shot of the useless pirellis it came with that is. last winter i had continentall winter contact tyres & the winter before michelin summer tyres. I dont drive it like a granny but its not a rally car either.

If you want a bit of comfort plus toys & want to hoon around go for a mitsubishi galant vr4, not as comfy as the lexus but loads of grunt & 4 wheel drive/steer.

should keep you out of trouble or put you faster into it if you push it past its limits.

Just to put the record straight I've never raced my car around or hooned around the bends but the car really didn't need much in any way for the rear end to kick out. I was on Pirelli’s come to think of it. That my well be a contributory fact, not that I'll ever know.

I think snow driving is something that no car is great at. True the colder it is the better the grip but that's not your typical UK weather conditions anyway. Black ice and you’re in the lap of the gods.

[ManicMark]

I have had no problems in the wet or snow with my mark4 once I got shot of the useless pirellis it came with that is. last winter i had continentall winter contact tyres & the winter before michelin summer tyres. I dont drive it like a granny but its not a rally car either.

If you want a bit of comfort plus toys & want to hoon around go for a mitsubishi galant vr4, not as comfy as the lexus but loads of grunt & 4 wheel drive/steer.

should keep you out of trouble or put you faster into it if you push it past its limits.

Just to put the record straight I've never raced my car around or hooned around the bends but the car really didn't need much in any way for the rear end to kick out. I was on Pirelli’s come to think of it. That my well be a contributory fact, not that I'll ever know.

I think snow driving is something that no car is great at. True the colder it is the better the grip but that's not your typical UK weather conditions anyway. Black ice and you’re in the lap of the gods.

Pirelli p6000s I presume these were on mine when I bought it they did not inspire confidence & the traction control worked overtime in the wet or greasy conditions, no problems after changing to Michelins & contis, I would definately not fancy my chances in a mark3 shod with pirellis, Sorry from your original post it sounded like you had a very heavy right foot, i would say your pirellis were a major factor in coming off the road especially if they were getting a bit old.

Hope you were fully comp 7 good luck with finding your new one.

ps my mate just went from a mark2 ls400 to a 430 & recons the handling to be in a different world.

[sir john]

Good to hear your okay and unhurt. The photos are amazing. That was one hell of a bang you had. My Mk11 LS came with a very old mix if tyres. 2 of them Kumho, a Nankang and some other nasty bit of rubbish.

I changed them all for Avon. A hangover from motorbike days when i was on Avon Roadrunners. I find them great in the wet. Never had a problem. As for driving on snow: i used my wifes Land Rover last winter. It was on normal road tyres. Great when under drive by the moment you touch the brakes you have no advantage over a 2WD car.

Winter tyres are the answer.

[steveskeggy]

Depends on what tyres you have on.

If you have got Dunlops on, either change them fast, or leave it in the garage, because even with traction control it will be dangerous in the snow.

I have changed the Dunlops that were on mine to Michelins, they seem a lot better in the dry and wet, but i am waiting for the snow to come before I find out what it is like then.

Whatever tyres you have on though, it is never going to handle like a sports car, and if you insist on driving like a knob at speeds that make the tail drift out, then you obviously cant control it and should look for a different car.

Hi. I am interested to know how the 430's perform in the wet. My 400 slid around like a looney and coming too fast into a roundabout or cornor in the wet would always put you into a rear wheel slide and if you wern't quick it could be very unforgiving. This happened to me and it finally got the better of me when I did an 80mph spin off into trees and totalled wrecked my 400 last Friday night in the wet. I has no traction control on my 97 model and i would never have one of that age again. So I'm wondering if the 430 is a better car in the worst of conditions. Tail slides is something very "rear wheel drive" and I know even the cabbies that drive Mercs stay at home when it snows. My 400 was all over the place last year in the snow and I'm wondering if I really want another rear wheel drive car. So I'd be really interested to know what 430 owners think about this. Doses the rear end kick out if you come a bit quick into a cornor or roundabout if you push it in the wet? How's the car in the snow. Can you keep it in a stright line or is the rear all o ver the road?

Thanks for your fb,

Jeffo

[AKY-B]

Hi. I am interested to know how the 430's perform in the wet. My 400 slid around like a looney and coming too fast into a roundabout or cornor in the wet would always put you into a rear wheel slide and if you wern't quick it could be very unforgiving. This happened to me and it finally got the better of me when I did an 80mph spin off into trees and totalled wrecked my 400 last Friday night in the wet. I has no traction control on my 97 model and i would never have one of that age again. So I'm wondering if the 430 is a better car in the worst of conditions. Tail slides is something very "rear wheel drive" and I know even the cabbies that drive Mercs stay at home when it snows. My 400 was all over the place last year in the snow and I'm wondering if I really want another rear wheel drive car. So I'd be really interested to know what 430 owners think about this. Doses the rear end kick out if you come a bit quick into a cornor or roundabout if you push it in the wet? How's the car in the snow. Can you keep it in a stright line or is the rear all o ver the road?

Thanks for your fb,

Jeffo

i am a 'glorified cabbie' and last winter the 430 was that bad that i had to endure daytime telly!!.i have just put on 4 dunlop winter sport maxx tyres on and they feel very good in the wet.got them on eBay £280 for the set,will let you know how they go in the snow.all my German customer say it makes all the difference having the winter tyres