More Tyres !

[tonyricha]

Just wondering how other 450h owners manage their tyres, I swop my P Zeros front to rear at 20,000 and so after 40,000 the car is tramlining really badly, just binned two fronts with 5mm of tread left simply because handling so badly, seems a shame but safety is most important. trying Dunlops this time, just £140 plus VAT each ( after 10 percent discount for Gold membership ) from Lexus M.Keynes who we know will manage the fragile valves.

[knitware]

Just wondering how other 450h owners manage their tyres, I swop my P Zeros front to rear at 20,000 and so after 40,000 the car is tramlining really badly, just binned two fronts with 5mm of tread left simply because handling so badly, seems a shame but safety is most important. trying Dunlops this time, just £140 plus VAT each ( after 10 percent discount for Gold membership ) from Lexus M.Keynes who we know will manage the fragile valves.

I've just fitted Dunlop SP01s to my car, nice and quiet.

[donmar]

I had a set of Yoyos T1R fitted just over 12 months ago and get no road sound grip very well and I had no problem in snow last year

[tonyricha]

I think the problem is the weight of the car, when the tyres are young there are no problems but when the fronts have done a few miles it is a job to hang on to the steering wheel when it finds imperfections in the surface, my wife won't drive it or even ride as passenger when the fronts are suffering, it really is quite alarming.

[Robin Banks]

Just wondering how other 450h owners manage their tyres, I swop my P Zeros front to rear at 20,000 and so after 40,000 the car is tramlining really badly, just binned two fronts with 5mm of tread left simply because handling so badly, seems a shame but safety is most important. trying Dunlops this time, just £140 plus VAT each ( after 10 percent discount for Gold membership ) from Lexus M.Keynes who we know will manage the fragile valves.

I've just fitted Dunlop SP01s to my car, nice and quiet.

Can i ask how much you payed for them , as i'm in need of two new rears, and the fronts i bought Michelin PS3 were £210 a corner!!!

[Parthiban]

I've been told that you shouldn't actually swap tyres front to rear as it accelerates wear and as you've found affects handling.

[knitware]

Just wondering how other 450h owners manage their tyres, I swop my P Zeros front to rear at 20,000 and so after 40,000 the car is tramlining really badly, just binned two fronts with 5mm of tread left simply because handling so badly, seems a shame but safety is most important. trying Dunlops this time, just £140 plus VAT each ( after 10 percent discount for Gold membership ) from Lexus M.Keynes who we know will manage the fragile valves.

I've just fitted Dunlop SP01s to my car, nice and quiet.

Can i ask how much you payed for them , as i'm in need of two new rears, and the fronts i bought Michelin PS3 were £210 a corner!!!

Sorry for the delay in response. I had a quote from Lexus £205 per tyre. I went to a local garage, whom I have used before and are usually cheaper than even the internet -

2 x Dunlop Sport SP01 225/50/17 = £273 total. £136.50 each, fitted. I thought this was quite a bargain. I'm not sure where you live but the tyre company are based in Sheffield -Attercliffe Tyres, Sheffield. Nice people too.

[Robin Banks]

well just got two tyres fitted at the rear, dunlop sp2030 £276 245/40 18............but one of the TPS disintegrated, i've got the bits and it looks like mastic inside the black plastic casing all over the electrics , is that how they are supposed to be? also weirdly the tyre pressure warning light is not on.................. i would of thought it would come one with sensor no now longer in the wheel?

[Rapidone]

I'm using YOKOHAMA Advan A10E, the rears are down to about 4mm after 15k miles.

When the rears are due to be replaced, I'm considering swapping the fronts to the rear and putting the new tyres on the front.

The theory being that worn tyres on the rear will give better fuel ecconomy due to less rubber moving about under accellaration.

I'm considering KUMHO ECSTA SPT KU31 for the replacement assuming there are no issues with mixing brands.

[Ben Rose]

For safety, you should always put the best tyres on the rear - this applied to all FWD, RWD or AWD cars.

Putting worn tyres on the rear won't help your economy at all. Having a lower circumference, they'll actually likely reduce your economy.

The Yoko Advan A10E is one of THE worst tyres I have ever known.

[tonyricha]

I do not consider it safe if the car goes where it wants and not where I aim it, new tyres on the front every time for me!

[Mike_B]

I've heard it said before that the new tyres should always go on the rear - I can only assume this is because it will make the back gripper than the front, and understeer is better understood by most drivers than oversteer so they are more likely to get away with any skid that results. I can't see it making much difference in the real world though... :duh:

[Ben Rose]

I do not consider it safe if the car goes where it wants and not where I aim it, new tyres on the front every time for me!

New tyres should always go on the rear. If the remaining fronts aren't up to the task, they should also be replaced. Simples.

[dave1]

I do not consider it safe if the car goes where it wants and not where I aim it, new tyres on the front every time for me!

New tyres should always go on the rear. If the remaining fronts aren't up to the task, they should also be replaced. Simples.

I was always lead to believe this too. Check the advice given by tyre manufacturers, retailers, fitters and various tyre information sites.http://www.ctyres.co.uk/tyre_info/tyre_rotation.htmlMy link

[tonyricha]

I SO wish you guys could have tried driving my 450h before I changed the front tyres, I cover about 50,000 miles per year mostly on motorways where tread wear is less than stop/start driving, something happens within the tyre causing steering issues making the car un predictable and frankly un safe but the treads are still good, offering good traction and braking on the rear. It can never be said best to fit new tyres to the rear when old tyres work fine there and yet so much more is demanded of the fronts! Also why would anybody throw away 4 tyres when they will run safely and legally for many more miles on the rear? We can all read these general statements but I suspect the weight of the hybrid is having an effect on the tyre construction.

[Ben Rose]

Lots of things could be at play here. The tracking could be out. The wheels could be balanced wrongly or the stick on weights have become detached. Somebody could have bounced a wheel off a kerb by accident causing a weakness in the tyre wall. If something doesn't feel right, it should be checked out.

If the tyres are bad, they should be replaced - even if the tread is good - and the newest put on the rear.

[tonyricha]

I give up !

[Swindon Andy]

Tony, make sure you get the correct load rated tyres, these cars take extra load. For yours it might be 97Y or XL, whatever they call them. Not all tyre shops will take care of this.

Also it may not be the tyres. Cars with other steering and suspension wear often feel good on new tyres, but as the tyre wears the underlying car problems become more noticeable again. Shocks, bushes all contribute, they gradually loosen up with age.

[Rapidone]

I've been trying to source the KUMHO ECSTA SPT KU31, and can only find a runflat version that is the exact match. The next nearest is a 97y instead of the 93y that are currently on the car.

I've read that runflats are noisy. Presumably a 97 load rating tyre will have stiffer side walls and transmit more noise from the road than a tyre with a 93 load rating.

Do any of you have experience of tyres with different load ratings on the same car, or with runflats?

As for the advice of putting the new tyres of the rear. Since more tread gives more grip, presumably the car will be much less likely to swap ends under heavy breaking with the new tyres on the rear. However with the weight transfer to the front wheels during breaking surely the car will stop faster with the new tyres on the front.

New tyres on the rear should mean less chance of traction control in damp conditions and better accelaration.

Putting worn tyres on the rear won't help your economy at all. Having a lower circumference, they'll actually likely reduce your economy.

I would assume that the car would be designed to run most efficiently with the rear tyres exactly half worn, at least that is the way I would design it.

[Ben Rose]

Why do you specifically need Kumho? Changing the specified load rating on a tyre, away from those in the handbook, is officially a modification and will need to be declared to your insurer.

New tyres on the rear, every time. There is no debate here. You will not find any expert anywhere in the world who tells you otherwise. Speak to car companies, speak to tyre companies - all the same. There's even a video on-line that shows what happens when you fit winter tyres to just the front tyres on a front wheel drive car. It's completely undriveable.

Economy and tread depths isn't a design thing...it's just simple mathematics. The circumference of a circle is proportional to the diameter (pi x d). If you reduce the tread by 1mm, that's 2mm of the diameter and over 6mm off the circumference. So, for every rotation of the wheel, the car will travel over 2inches less. This adds up quite significantly, maybe 3%.

[Rapidone]

Why do you specifically need Kumho? Changing the specified load rating on a tyre, away from those in the handbook, is officially a modification and will need to be declared to your insurer.

New tyres on the rear, every time. There is no debate here. You will not find any expert anywhere in the world who tells you otherwise. Speak to car companies, speak to tyre companies - all the same. There's even a video on-line that shows what happens when you fit winter tyres to just the front tyres on a front wheel drive car. It's completely undriveable.

Economy and tread depths isn't a design thing...it's just simple mathematics. The circumference of a circle is proportional to the diameter (pi x d). If you reduce the tread by 1mm, that's 2mm of the diameter and over 6mm off the circumference. So, for every rotation of the wheel, the car will travel over 2inches less. This adds up quite significantly, maybe 3%.

After reading the Auto Express 2010 tyre guide I've decided to go with the Continental sport contact 3. It looks easy to get the correct specification unlike some of the other tyres on there.

I'm not disputing there is a change in circumference as tyre wears. However, when the designers have to choose optimal gear ratios for a car, they will have to choose a tyre circumference to work with. The most logical choice would be a circumference directly in the center of the two extremes of circumference found during expected tyre life.

[matt555]

I give up !

What pressures are you running mate? I know what you mean about the loose front end, my misses reports it and then I always check the pressures. Currently I'm .1 PSI above the comfort (below 100mph) settings, this seems to help.

Tyre wise, I have Yoko's A10 front and back! IMO they are ok but not great, I run Goodyear F1 Assymetrics on my Scooby and find them outstanding, so will be giving them a go on the big bus next time around.

matty

[tonyricha]

I give up !

What pressures are you running mate? I know what you mean about the loose front end, my misses reports it and then I always check the pressures. Currently I'm .1 PSI above the comfort (below 100mph) settings, this seems to help.

Tyre wise, I have Yoko's A10 front and back! IMO they are ok but not great, I run Goodyear F1 Assymetrics on my Scooby and find them outstanding, so will be giving them a go on the big bus next time around.

matty

Thanks for your reply Matty, pressure same as yours, interestingly (or not ! ) I contacted the tech department at Pirelli to ask their advise as to what was going wrong, they replied saying their tyres are not tested on this vehicle and so not recommended for use and yet these tyres were brand new when the car was supplied to me by Lexus direct. Fresh rubber on the front is the only cure.

Regards Tony

[matt555]

Thanks for your reply Matty, pressure same as yours, interestingly (or not ! ) I contacted the tech department at Pirelli to ask their advise as to what was going wrong, they replied saying their tyres are not tested on this vehicle and so not recommended for use and yet these tyres were brand new when the car was supplied to me by Lexus direct. Fresh rubber on the front is the only cure.

Regards Tony

It's odd! Defo found it was more noticeable when i switched the rears onto the front... my misses says it feels like it is on ice and is really unsettling.. perhaps there is something on the steering? will get it checked over on the next service as maybe this is a bigger problem... that or one of the wheels is damaged internally which would explain why it is more noticeable after moving them around, we picked up the car with only lexus having owned it before and one of them has been refurbed, no one told us this.... reckon i'll get spending some time on this over christmas, will let you know what i find out...

matty

[Ben Rose]

Thanks for your reply Matty, pressure same as yours, interestingly (or not ! ) I contacted the tech department at Pirelli to ask their advise as to what was going wrong, they replied saying their tyres are not tested on this vehicle and so not recommended for use and yet these tyres were brand new when the car was supplied to me by Lexus direct. Fresh rubber on the front is the only cure.

Regards Tony

The car was brand new? Or they were replacement tyres on a new car? AFAIK Lexus have never supplied a new car on Pirelli tyres. The rubbish Yoko A10s are pretty much the standard for this model.

Regarding the handling issues you guys report, perhaps the suspension set-up just doesn't suit you? Most car with low profile tyres are prone to tramlining, especially if the suspension geometry is setup with certain camber/tow settings. Are you seeing wear in any particular area of the tyre?

Perhaps a trip to somewhere that specialises in 4-wheel alignment would help, like Micheldever Tyre near Winchester. They could probably give advise on your setup and suggest changes to remove the behaviour you don't like.